[Goose]

 I disagree with you.  Americans have a strong sense of “collective responsibility”. According to The a World Giving Index,  Americans are the most generous people on the planet. It’s a United Kingdom organization and maybe it’s full of garbage I don’t know. But I have read similar studies that suggest the same thing.

I think your example from The World Giving Index shows that Americans have a strong sense of INDIVIDUAL responsibility. People donate what they want, when they want, and to whom they want. They often give generously. They don't ask their neighbors how much and to what they donated. If somebody did nothing at all, you don't know it.

In societies where responsibility is collective, not individual, you are either shamed into or compelled to do what society expects. Many of these societies institutionalize the "safety net" into the government, so one has no choice in the matter. This works fine if the people in the society really do support the level of compulsion involved. It also works fine if the level of compulsion isn't under the control of society at large (China, Singapore). The "We are all in this together" idea can work if "we" and "together" is a real possibility. In the USA, we haven't ever approached that level of "we", let alone "together".

And Americans always rally to a cause -  such as a natural disaster. With h.u.g.e sums of money and sweat equity being donated.







This is different for a couple reasons. One, you can’t see it. It’s not like a hurricane or tornado that destroys a city or town. Two it has an economic component that no matter how much one wants to deny it, exists.  I’m sorry, but I’ll say it again, I think it’s very easy for most of the people on this board to criticize those who are in a “hurry“ to get things open and working again. Because I think most of the people on this board are older, and economically set.  Thus they (we) can handle it. It’s a tad different when you’re living paycheck to paycheck and you lose a job, you’re 35 years old, the risk to you is not all that high and you have mouths to feed.

In the USA, it is a tad different. The people living paycheck to paycheck have the option of not complying. They won't get arrested, and their neighbors won't shun them. In fact, probably nobody will say a thing. In Singapore, they will get arrested, and it doesn't matter if they are poor and need the work. In societies like Japan, Taiwan, Korea, etc. your responsibility to the society transcends the fact it will cost you money and pain. In general, these just aren't admissible reasons to not comply. (OK, there are people everywhere who ignore social norms. Many fewer in some societies than others however.) 



You are correct IMHO that most people on this board are more free to chose a response that costs them money, or in a situation where being careful doesn't cost them money. They also like being "right". That makes them happy. You are also correct that the fact this virus is an "invisible" threat makes it harder to get peoples attention. What isn't talked about enough IMHO, especially on this board, is that almost all pronouncements regarding public policies to combat this virus come with a high level of uncertainty. This fact is ignored by many people on all sides of the issues. We haven't seen this virus before. We don't know exactly how many possible mitigations will play out, especially when the level of compliance is unpredictable in advance. This is one reason why many people feel the POTUS has made things worse by taking contrarian positions on many possible actions (eg. masks).



What is now missing (and used to be present) in our society is the idea that when "authorities" (State and County in this case) tell you to do something, you do it, even if you don't believe in the policy and the policy may not work. Further, the authorities have the duty and obligation to ensure that you do comply. You are free not to like it. You can protest against it. You can speak out against it. You can support candidates that will take a different approach. You can ask for financial assistance to make compliance less painful, which you may or may not get. However, until the rules change, you comply and/or they make you comply. That allowed our free society to work somewhat efficiently in the presence of significant uncertainty and disagreement. Without this type of agreement by the populace, where people feel free to decide everything for themselves, chaos is the inevitable result.

So again – I’m not willing to throw the American people under the bus or cower in shame because we’re not acting like the Chinese, Singapore or the ***** Germans. And I’m not gonna apologize one iota for that.

On this we agree. I believe our society has many critical advantages. However IMHO, we have become far too concerned with our rights and not concerned at all with our responsibilities. We have forgotten that democracy works only if people obey all the laws, not just the ones they like. We have to do this even if it costs us blood and treasure. We have also elected politicians who will not forcefully remind us of that fact and compel us to comply when necessary. We need to act not like other nations, but like Americans who understand both our rights and our responsibilities.

[Goose]

 I disagree with you.  Americans have a strong sense of “collective responsibility”. According to The a World Giving Index,  Americans are the most generous people on the planet. It’s a United Kingdom organization and maybe it’s full of garbage I don’t know. But I have read similar studies that suggest the same thing.

I think your example from The World Giving Index shows that Americans have a strong sense of INDIVIDUAL responsibility. People donate what they want, when they want, and to whom they want. They often give generously. They don't ask their neighbors how much and to what they donated. If somebody did nothing at all, you don't know it.

In societies where responsibility is collective, not individual, you are either shamed into or compelled to do what society expects. Many of these societies institutionalize the "safety net" into the government, so one has no choice in the matter. This works fine if the people in the society really do support the level of compulsion involved. It also works fine if the level of compulsion isn't under the control of society at large (China, Singapore). The "We are all in this together" idea can work if "we" and "together" is a real possibility. In the USA, we haven't ever approached that level of "we", let alone "together".

And Americans always rally to a cause -  such as a natural disaster. With h.u.g.e sums of money and sweat equity being donated.







This is different for a couple reasons. One, you can’t see it. It’s not like a hurricane or tornado that destroys a city or town. Two it has an economic component that no matter how much one wants to deny it, exists.  I’m sorry, but I’ll say it again, I think it’s very easy for most of the people on this board to criticize those who are in a “hurry“ to get things open and working again. Because I think most of the people on this board are older, and economically set.  Thus they (we) can handle it. It’s a tad different when you’re living paycheck to paycheck and you lose a job, you’re 35 years old, the risk to you is not all that high and you have mouths to feed.

In the USA, it is a tad different. The people living paycheck to paycheck have the option of not complying. They won't get arrested, and their neighbors won't shun them. In fact, probably nobody will say a thing. In Singapore, they will get arrested, and it doesn't matter if they are poor and need the work. In societies like Japan, Taiwan, Korea, etc. your responsibility to the society transcends the fact it will cost you money and pain. In general, these just aren't admissible reasons to not comply. (OK, there are people everywhere who ignore social norms. Many fewer in some societies than others however.) 



You are correct IMHO that most people on this board are more free to chose a response that costs them money, or in a situation where being careful doesn't cost them money. They also like being "right". That makes them happy. You are also correct that the fact this virus is an "invisible" threat makes it harder to get peoples attention. What isn't talked about enough IMHO, especially on this board, is that almost all pronouncements regarding public policies to combat this virus come with a high level of uncertainty. This fact is ignored by many people on all sides of the issues. We haven't seen this virus before. We don't know exactly how many possible mitigations will play out, especially when the level of compliance is unpredictable in advance. This is one reason why many people feel the POTUS has made things worse by taking contrarian positions on many possible actions (eg. masks).



What is now missing (and used to be present) in our society is the idea that when "authorities" (State and County in this case) tell you to do something, you do it, even if you don't believe in the policy and the policy may not work. Further, the authorities have the duty and obligation to ensure that you do comply. You are free not to like it. You can protest against it. You can speak out against it. You can support candidates that will take a different approach. You can ask for financial assistance to make compliance less painful, which you may or may not get. However, until the rules change, you comply and/or they make you comply. That allowed our free society to work somewhat efficiently in the presence of significant uncertainty and disagreement. Without this type of agreement by the populace, where people feel free to decide everything for themselves, chaos is the inevitable result.

So again – I’m not willing to throw the American people under the bus or cower in shame because we’re not acting like the Chinese, Singapore or the ***** Germans. And I’m not gonna apologize one iota for that.

On this we agree. I believe our society has many critical advantages. However IMHO, we have become far too concerned with our rights and not concerned at all with our responsibilities. We have forgotten that democracy works only if people obey all the laws, not just the ones they like. We have to do this even if it costs us blood and treasure. We have also elected politicians who will not forcefully remind us of that fact and compel us to comply when necessary. We need to act not like other nations, but like Americans who understand both our rights and our responsibilities.