[JustAnotherFan]

black and brown kids. We actually may find some common ground - improving schools (and scholastic options) in economically depressed areas is needed.  On that I think we may actually agree.  But I truly don’t think staying home is the better of the two current options.

black and brown kids, but the leap to "no school would be better" is surprising, so I'd like to hear the entirety of brevin's thoughts before jumping in.

 increases disparities between BIPOC and white kids, or poor and rich kids

"no school" is better than conventional, white supremacist, hierarchical schools  of BIPOC and poor children reward those who can play a meaningless game and win.I refuse to overlook the scores of millions of Black and brown children who have been harmed by conventional schooling in America.

fixing the problem with”conventional” schools and black and brown kids. 

I'm working in the poorest neighborhood in the Bay Area. All of the kids are now in online school. Most of the parents are close to illiterate. They cannot help their kids learn in these circumstances, and many do not bother having their kids attend class. For the poorest families, having their children go to school is the only hope for a future decent life. Your ideas about school are naive and ill informed. The problems these kids have in getting a good education are so complex that any issues with public schools probably account for 10% of the problem. They are malnourished, their parents are grossly under educated, the families are destitute, they don't always have housing, and they have medical problems that are the result of abject poverty. The public schools are the only place where they eat fruits or vegetables, the only place where an adult is in their life who understands what they will need to do to survive in our culture, and the only place they go where they feel safe. 

That being said, kids are resilient, and missing one year of school won't doom most of them. Missing more than that would be a disaster.

And if you think school is the one place where poor Black and brown kids feel safe ...

Kids are resilient. But chronic stress tears almost everyone down.

JAF...just one minor question.  You've referred to poor black and brown kids a lot.  Do you also include poor white or Asian kids in your description, in which schools don't help them either?  Or are you saying that poor Asian or white kids don't exist?  Or are you omitting them because you haven't seen poor white or Asian kids?  Or that the "white supremacist" system works for poor white and Asian kids?  Or are you omitting them for some other reason?

I see what you're doing and I do not appreciate it.

I don't think you see what I'm doing. You're framing poverty and bad schools as exclusively, or at least largely a black and brown problem.  I would submit to you that there are far, far more whites who live in poverty, so the problem of poverty and bad schools cuts across ethnic lines.

To that end, here's some statistics for you.  Current census estimates that there are 328,239,523 people in the U.S.  Here's the breakdown by population:

60.1% are non-Hispanic whites or 197,271,953.  10.1% of those live in poverty, or 19,924,467
5.9% are Asian, or 19,366,123.  10.1% of those live in poverty, or 1,955, 979.
18.5% are Latinx, or 60,724,312. 17.6% of those live in poverty, or 10,687,479.
13.4% are African American, or 43,984,096.  20.8% of those live in poverty, or 9,148,692.
1.3% are indigenous, or 4,267,114.  25.4% of those live in poverty, or 1,083,847.

In other words, 20,920,018 African American, Latinx and Indigenous people fit the definition of poverty.  About 1 million more, or 21,880,447 white and Asian people fit the definition of poverty.  I'm just suggesting two things: 

- first, that poverty and poor schools are not exclusively limited to black, brown and indigenous people, which is what I inferred from your comments.
- second, white non-Hispanic voters preferred Trump by a 21% margin in 2016.  Maybe if the Democrats hadn't both completely ignored impoverished whites and also equated all whites with white supremacy, then perhaps Trump wouldn't have been elected and the COVID problem wouldn't have been so bad under the benign overlordship of Hilary Clinton.

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/t.../PST045219

- first, I think it is now clear that I never suggested that only BIPOC folks live in poverty. I am assuming that is why you cut off my prior quotes which clearly show that I was accounting for race and class. As an Asian boy who grew up in the public housing and ate government cheese and dried milk growing up I am quite familiar with the fact that poverty is not solely the domain of Black and brown communities.
- second, Trump is a political genius. Perhaps the only measure by which he could be considered a genius. That poor whites think that the Republican party supports them just highlights what a pathetic job schooling in Amerika is doing. And the Democrats most certainly don't equate all white with white supremacy. The Democratic Party is also steeped in white supremacy. My God, we have Joe Biden as their nominee. And the Black running mate they chose to tokenize built her career on destroying the lives of Black people. If you think my critiques of the schooling system is in any way an endorsement of the Democratic Party you are dead wrong. I fully acknowledge that both parties have dropped the ball an BIPOC AND poor communities (on purpose). But let's not ignore that white supremacy was a pretty critical piece of Trump's campaign and the course of his first administration. From attacking immigrants, Muslims, and Black communities; to celebrating police abuse; to blaming Covid-19 on the Chinese; to taking a both sides approach to Charlottesville --- there is a reason why white supremacists, neofascists, klansmen, and the alt-right overwhelmingly supported Trump. And American history is filled with poor whites latching onto white supremacy so that they could at least maintain some power over non-whites if they couldn't have any economic power. 

Also, Hillary mailed it in.

[JustAnotherFan]

black and brown kids. We actually may find some common ground - improving schools (and scholastic options) in economically depressed areas is needed.  On that I think we may actually agree.  But I truly don’t think staying home is the better of the two current options.

black and brown kids, but the leap to "no school would be better" is surprising, so I'd like to hear the entirety of brevin's thoughts before jumping in.

 increases disparities between BIPOC and white kids, or poor and rich kids

"no school" is better than conventional, white supremacist, hierarchical schools  of BIPOC and poor children reward those who can play a meaningless game and win.I refuse to overlook the scores of millions of Black and brown children who have been harmed by conventional schooling in America.

fixing the problem with”conventional” schools and black and brown kids. 

I'm working in the poorest neighborhood in the Bay Area. All of the kids are now in online school. Most of the parents are close to illiterate. They cannot help their kids learn in these circumstances, and many do not bother having their kids attend class. For the poorest families, having their children go to school is the only hope for a future decent life. Your ideas about school are naive and ill informed. The problems these kids have in getting a good education are so complex that any issues with public schools probably account for 10% of the problem. They are malnourished, their parents are grossly under educated, the families are destitute, they don't always have housing, and they have medical problems that are the result of abject poverty. The public schools are the only place where they eat fruits or vegetables, the only place where an adult is in their life who understands what they will need to do to survive in our culture, and the only place they go where they feel safe. 

That being said, kids are resilient, and missing one year of school won't doom most of them. Missing more than that would be a disaster.

And if you think school is the one place where poor Black and brown kids feel safe ...

Kids are resilient. But chronic stress tears almost everyone down.

JAF...just one minor question.  You've referred to poor black and brown kids a lot.  Do you also include poor white or Asian kids in your description, in which schools don't help them either?  Or are you saying that poor Asian or white kids don't exist?  Or are you omitting them because you haven't seen poor white or Asian kids?  Or that the "white supremacist" system works for poor white and Asian kids?  Or are you omitting them for some other reason?

I see what you're doing and I do not appreciate it.

I don't think you see what I'm doing. You're framing poverty and bad schools as exclusively, or at least largely a black and brown problem.  I would submit to you that there are far, far more whites who live in poverty, so the problem of poverty and bad schools cuts across ethnic lines.

To that end, here's some statistics for you.  Current census estimates that there are 328,239,523 people in the U.S.  Here's the breakdown by population:

60.1% are non-Hispanic whites or 197,271,953.  10.1% of those live in poverty, or 19,924,467
5.9% are Asian, or 19,366,123.  10.1% of those live in poverty, or 1,955, 979.
18.5% are Latinx, or 60,724,312. 17.6% of those live in poverty, or 10,687,479.
13.4% are African American, or 43,984,096.  20.8% of those live in poverty, or 9,148,692.
1.3% are indigenous, or 4,267,114.  25.4% of those live in poverty, or 1,083,847.

In other words, 20,920,018 African American, Latinx and Indigenous people fit the definition of poverty.  About 1 million more, or 21,880,447 white and Asian people fit the definition of poverty.  I'm just suggesting two things: 

- first, that poverty and poor schools are not exclusively limited to black, brown and indigenous people, which is what I inferred from your comments.
- second, white non-Hispanic voters preferred Trump by a 21% margin in 2016.  Maybe if the Democrats hadn't both completely ignored impoverished whites and also equated all whites with white supremacy, then perhaps Trump wouldn't have been elected and the COVID problem wouldn't have been so bad under the benign overlordship of Hilary Clinton.

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/t.../PST045219

- first, I think it is now clear that I never suggested that only BIPOC folks live in poverty. I am assuming that is why you cut off my prior quotes which clearly show that I was accounting for race and class. As an Asian boy who grew up in the public housing and ate government cheese and dried milk growing up I am quite familiar with the fact that poverty is not solely the domain of Black and brown communities.
- second, Trump is a political genius. Perhaps the only measure by which he could be considered a genius. That poor whites think that the Republican party supports them just highlights what a pathetic job schooling in Amerika is doing. And the Democrats most certainly don't equate all white with white supremacy. The Democratic Party is also steeped in white supremacy. My God, we have Joe Biden as their nominee. And the Black running mate they chose to tokenize built her career on destroying the lives of Black people. If you think my critiques of the schooling system is in any way an endorsement of the Democratic Party you are dead wrong. I fully acknowledge that both parties have dropped the ball an BIPOC AND poor communities (on purpose). But let's not ignore that white supremacy was a pretty critical piece of Trump's campaign and the course of his first administration. From attacking immigrants, Muslims, and Black communities; to celebrating police abuse; to blaming Covid-19 on the Chinese; to taking a both sides approach to Charlottesville --- there is a reason why white supremacists, neofascists, klansmen, and the alt-right overwhelmingly supported Trump. And American history is filled with poor whites latching onto white supremacy so that they could at least maintain some power over non-whites if they couldn't have any economic power. 

Also, Hillary mailed it in.