[JustAnotherFan]

Thanks for making very clear that responding to you is a waste of time as you are not interested in actually learning anything. It'll save me time from responding to your nonsense moving forward.

From someone who might be sympathetic to your cause and who is definitely interested in learning something: your case would be much stronger if you actually gave us an argument to support your case and recommendations for what you would like to see.  I may have missed something in this thread, but everything I have read from you was a critique of the educational system.  And, while I don't doubt that critiques of the system are warranted, they are pretty empty in the absence of ways to improve, alternatives.  If you support the unschooling movement (as one of your earlier posts intimated), I would be very interested in how to operationalize it.  I  support many of the values it espouses (encouraging exploration and self-direction; eschewing competition and testing), but (perhaps) paradoxically, I think that those goals ought to be achieved by re-orienting existing educational institutions rather than abolishing them altogether, which is what your posts seem to support.  If that's the case, then I'd really like to hear the how.

BC

The master's tools will never dismantle the master's house. I used to be a supporter of the charter school movement and then of community school solutions to improve schooling, but I now recognize that the notion that we can turn an oppressive institution into a liberatory one is a foolish one. Instead of spending my life trying to marginally lessen the harm of schooling I prefer to support liberatory efforts that can make oppressive institutions obsolete. Schooling as an institution is structured to harm children, whether or not educators are willing to recognize it. It takes away autonomy from children and forces them to perform, sometimes making the kids believe that it is the only way that they can be successful in life. We can lobby and beg for generations to eliminate age segregation, mandated curriculum, homework, testing, grading, and ranking, but the change won't come by lobbying and begging. So I'm sorry but I don't have any suggestions on how to re-orient existing educational institutions. Like policing, they must be abolished and something better needs to be developed in order to prove that we can have a healthy, educated society without having to accept the collateral damage of millions of lives destroyed in the process.

Unschoolers are leading the way, and there are Self-Directed Education communities around the country showing that children can be trusted to take the lead on their education. That eschewing the standard school curriculum, and all the practices and structures built up around it, does not leave these kids any worse off, and in many cases allowing them to escape schooling is saving their lives. When a critical mass of children are allowed to opt out of conventional schooling (public and private), and there is no data that suggests they are worse off for it (other than temporary performance related to the meaningless curriculum), and there is ample data that shows they are better off for it, then ideally we would be able to reallocate public funds to support children instead of supporting schools (and schools of education need to start studying this). That money could then be used to support education resource centers (e.g., libraries, maker spaces, workshops) where the Learners are free to come and go and use it as it fits their needs, as well as funded apprenticeships for those who are interested. Both would be far easier to take advantage of when children are freed from being forced to spend 15,000 hours in school. 

And it's okay if most people grasp their chests and can't believe that kids might not be forced to learn long division or the components of a cell. We don't need their support.

[JustAnotherFan]

Thanks for making very clear that responding to you is a waste of time as you are not interested in actually learning anything. It'll save me time from responding to your nonsense moving forward.

From someone who might be sympathetic to your cause and who is definitely interested in learning something: your case would be much stronger if you actually gave us an argument to support your case and recommendations for what you would like to see.  I may have missed something in this thread, but everything I have read from you was a critique of the educational system.  And, while I don't doubt that critiques of the system are warranted, they are pretty empty in the absence of ways to improve, alternatives.  If you support the unschooling movement (as one of your earlier posts intimated), I would be very interested in how to operationalize it.  I  support many of the values it espouses (encouraging exploration and self-direction; eschewing competition and testing), but (perhaps) paradoxically, I think that those goals ought to be achieved by re-orienting existing educational institutions rather than abolishing them altogether, which is what your posts seem to support.  If that's the case, then I'd really like to hear the how.

BC

The master's tools will never dismantle the master's house. I used to be a supporter of the charter school movement and then of community school solutions to improve schooling, but I now recognize that the notion that we can turn an oppressive institution into a liberatory one is a foolish one. Instead of spending my life trying to marginally lessen the harm of schooling I prefer to support liberatory efforts that can make oppressive institutions obsolete. Schooling as an institution is structured to harm children, whether or not educators are willing to recognize it. It takes away autonomy from children and forces them to perform, sometimes making the kids believe that it is the only way that they can be successful in life. We can lobby and beg for generations to eliminate age segregation, mandated curriculum, homework, testing, grading, and ranking, but the change won't come by lobbying and begging. So I'm sorry but I don't have any suggestions on how to re-orient existing educational institutions. Like policing, they must be abolished and something better needs to be developed in order to prove that we can have a healthy, educated society without having to accept the collateral damage of millions of lives destroyed in the process.

Unschoolers are leading the way, and there are Self-Directed Education communities around the country showing that children can be trusted to take the lead on their education. That eschewing the standard school curriculum, and all the practices and structures built up around it, does not leave these kids any worse off, and in many cases allowing them to escape schooling is saving their lives. When a critical mass of children are allowed to opt out of conventional schooling (public and private), and there is no data that suggests they are worse off for it (other than temporary performance related to the meaningless curriculum), and there is ample data that shows they are better off for it, then ideally we would be able to reallocate public funds to support children instead of supporting schools (and schools of education need to start studying this). That money could then be used to support education resource centers (e.g., libraries, maker spaces, workshops) where the Learners are free to come and go and use it as it fits their needs, as well as funded apprenticeships for those who are interested. Both would be far easier to take advantage of when children are freed from being forced to spend 15,000 hours in school. 

And it's okay if most people grasp their chests and can't believe that kids might not be forced to learn long division or the components of a cell. We don't need their support.