[Farm93]

Okay, just a yes or no then, do you think a Harbaugh led college football team would fall to the depths Stanford has under Shaw?

I am not BC, but I will jump in here anyway. No, Harbaugh wouldn't fall that low because when things got pear shaped enough he would do something stupid and get fired. His conduct rubs people the wrong way at times. He does not deal with adversity calmly. That will catch up to a coach if he has a few 6-6 type seasons, so he would be long gone before he went 3-9. As it is, 2020 almost got him. Some thought he would be let go at that point.

I disagree. Harbaugh fired his good friend Don Brown as DC, he eased out his longtime colleague Tim Drevno as OC, he took away responsibility from Pep Hamilton and transferred it to Josh Gattis, leading to Hamilton leaving. He stepped up his recruiting and transfer game with a battalion of younger assistants and staffers.

There's been a narrative in the national media and on this board too that Harbaugh is good at injecting EUTM into a team but that after a few years his intense style grates on people and that it's better to replace him at that point. Yet he is in his seventh year at Michigan with his best team by far and a legitimate chance at a national championship. He had a miserable season last year but didn't do anything stupid to get fired, to the contrary he fought for his job by converting half his salary into incentives.

As you said, his conduct does rub people the wrong way and he doesn't deal with adversity calmly. Those aren't necessarily negative attributes for a college football coach. They describe Nick Saban pretty well, for example. When Harbaugh left Stanford there was a common reaction of "great turnaround job but not that sorry to see you go, turning the program over to a steadier hand is good." Seeing what Harbaugh is doing at Michigan (and anticipating that he will build off of this year in terms of recruiting next year) makes me believe that if Harbaugh had remained at Stanford he would have taken the necessary measures to reinvigorate the program when that was called for, without torching the program.

"...if Harbaugh had remained at Stanford he would have taken the necessary measures to reinvigorate the program when that was called for..."

All of which calls for the flint that is the diametric opposite of Shaw's apparent mentality and temperament. This is the basis of my argument that he can never, ever regain the glory years. It's just not in him. He is not that guy.

If Harbaugh had stayed??  

What are we talking about?   He was open to new opportunities almost before he got on campus.   Those in the Bay Area likely can share the stories of him meeting with Michigan and NFL types very, very early in his tenure.  The idea that he would be at Stanford for 12-15+ years is beyond crazy.

If we want to live in a fantasy land let's at least explore one that is credible. 
What if Andrew Luck was the Head Coach, Gerhart was the OC and Sherman was the DC?   Could they return Stanford to 2009-2016 glory?

As silly as that may sound, it is far more likely than any scenario that would have had Harbaugh at Stanford for a decade while winning at any clip close to what Shaw was doing in the 2011-2018 years.

Any coach that has the passion and drive that many believe Shaw should possess, would simply not stay at Stanford after their first decent year.    

It is just the reality.   If they had that type of drive and had no meaningful affinity to Stanford, then they would logically drive to the next prestigious challenge once it was available.    That would mean going to the best of the SEC, the best of the BigTen or the NFL.   

FWIW - Stanford is not alone in this category.   Same is true for most Pac-12, ACC and Big12 schools.  If someone was going to settle for staying at Stanford with no particular affinity for the university then almost by definition they would not have the drive most on this board want from a coach. 

Harbaugh here for 12-15 years is entirely inconsistent with the notion that he has some type of magical drive to be successful at the highest heights in the coaching world.

[Farm93]

Okay, just a yes or no then, do you think a Harbaugh led college football team would fall to the depths Stanford has under Shaw?

I am not BC, but I will jump in here anyway. No, Harbaugh wouldn't fall that low because when things got pear shaped enough he would do something stupid and get fired. His conduct rubs people the wrong way at times. He does not deal with adversity calmly. That will catch up to a coach if he has a few 6-6 type seasons, so he would be long gone before he went 3-9. As it is, 2020 almost got him. Some thought he would be let go at that point.

I disagree. Harbaugh fired his good friend Don Brown as DC, he eased out his longtime colleague Tim Drevno as OC, he took away responsibility from Pep Hamilton and transferred it to Josh Gattis, leading to Hamilton leaving. He stepped up his recruiting and transfer game with a battalion of younger assistants and staffers.

There's been a narrative in the national media and on this board too that Harbaugh is good at injecting EUTM into a team but that after a few years his intense style grates on people and that it's better to replace him at that point. Yet he is in his seventh year at Michigan with his best team by far and a legitimate chance at a national championship. He had a miserable season last year but didn't do anything stupid to get fired, to the contrary he fought for his job by converting half his salary into incentives.

As you said, his conduct does rub people the wrong way and he doesn't deal with adversity calmly. Those aren't necessarily negative attributes for a college football coach. They describe Nick Saban pretty well, for example. When Harbaugh left Stanford there was a common reaction of "great turnaround job but not that sorry to see you go, turning the program over to a steadier hand is good." Seeing what Harbaugh is doing at Michigan (and anticipating that he will build off of this year in terms of recruiting next year) makes me believe that if Harbaugh had remained at Stanford he would have taken the necessary measures to reinvigorate the program when that was called for, without torching the program.

"...if Harbaugh had remained at Stanford he would have taken the necessary measures to reinvigorate the program when that was called for..."

All of which calls for the flint that is the diametric opposite of Shaw's apparent mentality and temperament. This is the basis of my argument that he can never, ever regain the glory years. It's just not in him. He is not that guy.

If Harbaugh had stayed??  

What are we talking about?   He was open to new opportunities almost before he got on campus.   Those in the Bay Area likely can share the stories of him meeting with Michigan and NFL types very, very early in his tenure.  The idea that he would be at Stanford for 12-15+ years is beyond crazy.

If we want to live in a fantasy land let's at least explore one that is credible. 
What if Andrew Luck was the Head Coach, Gerhart was the OC and Sherman was the DC?   Could they return Stanford to 2009-2016 glory?

As silly as that may sound, it is far more likely than any scenario that would have had Harbaugh at Stanford for a decade while winning at any clip close to what Shaw was doing in the 2011-2018 years.

Any coach that has the passion and drive that many believe Shaw should possess, would simply not stay at Stanford after their first decent year.    

It is just the reality.   If they had that type of drive and had no meaningful affinity to Stanford, then they would logically drive to the next prestigious challenge once it was available.    That would mean going to the best of the SEC, the best of the BigTen or the NFL.   

FWIW - Stanford is not alone in this category.   Same is true for most Pac-12, ACC and Big12 schools.  If someone was going to settle for staying at Stanford with no particular affinity for the university then almost by definition they would not have the drive most on this board want from a coach. 

Harbaugh here for 12-15 years is entirely inconsistent with the notion that he has some type of magical drive to be successful at the highest heights in the coaching world.