[teejers1]

[quote="gailtate" pid='342720' dateline='1643327448']
A lot about sports at the higher levels comes down to "I just don't like that guy." And I say that about a lot of guys in and out of sports.  I also say this: Use of PEDs is brazen cheating on a scale Unknown To Mankind. That's why I have no use for Bonds, Clemens, McGwire or Sosa.Or the D-bags on the Houston Astros, including Stanford's own AJ Hinch. It has nothing to do with "character", Bud Selig's hypocrisy or all the other red herrings flopping around in these discussions. It has to do with knowingly using a competitive, biological advantage so you can reign supreme. EFF every one of those frauds. Esp. Bonds, who finally one-upped McGwire. What a profound accomplishment.
[/quote

I bet half of baseball was on PEDs in the 90’s.  Or more.  In the 70s it was greenies. 

I suspect that there are still a solid percentage of baseball players using PEDS  today. Even higher in football and track and field. Better masking agents, stay one step ahead. Athletes are always looking for an edge.

Gaylord Perry is a favorite of mine.  Is he in the HOF without his spitter - and the way he used it, both by throwing his “super sinker”  and that marvelous routine he’d go through before every pitch?

As for the Astros, stealing signs is older than the hills.  The ‘51 Giants allegedly had a guy with binoculars in the scoreboard who would relay pitches.  Teams playing the Astros had an idea of what was going on.  But Bob Gibson types don’t exist these days.  He would have had his catcher call a slider away and drilled the guy with a 95 MPH fastball in the ribs.  That would have ended their little ploy.

Baseball has had cheating forever.  It’s part of the game.

There's cheating and there's cheating.

PEDs are way beyond the pale of "acceptable" cheating for this reason alone:  they make a mockery of the record books by physically enhancing a player's strength, recovery, quick-twitch, what have you.  Remember when 500 HRs meant something and only the all-timers reached that climbed that magical mountain?  It's become a diluted accomplishment now, thanks to rampant PED usage.

Uppers . . . well, that's a mixed bag in terms of "helping."  

As for stealing signs, it's one thing for players on the field/in the dugout to catch them or a tell or what have you; but using cameras and electronic signaling is also beyond the pale.

And putting foreign substances on the ball should be (and is) banned.  And I think enforcement has been pretty good, despite early shows of protest by the likes of Sergio Romo.  It's good to root out that kind of beyond-the-pale cheating.

I agree that PEDs are likely still in use and that detection lags catching users.  But you have to try and eliminate them whatever way you can.

[teejers1]

[quote="gailtate" pid='342720' dateline='1643327448']
A lot about sports at the higher levels comes down to "I just don't like that guy." And I say that about a lot of guys in and out of sports.  I also say this: Use of PEDs is brazen cheating on a scale Unknown To Mankind. That's why I have no use for Bonds, Clemens, McGwire or Sosa.Or the D-bags on the Houston Astros, including Stanford's own AJ Hinch. It has nothing to do with "character", Bud Selig's hypocrisy or all the other red herrings flopping around in these discussions. It has to do with knowingly using a competitive, biological advantage so you can reign supreme. EFF every one of those frauds. Esp. Bonds, who finally one-upped McGwire. What a profound accomplishment.
[/quote

I bet half of baseball was on PEDs in the 90’s.  Or more.  In the 70s it was greenies. 

I suspect that there are still a solid percentage of baseball players using PEDS  today. Even higher in football and track and field. Better masking agents, stay one step ahead. Athletes are always looking for an edge.

Gaylord Perry is a favorite of mine.  Is he in the HOF without his spitter - and the way he used it, both by throwing his “super sinker”  and that marvelous routine he’d go through before every pitch?

As for the Astros, stealing signs is older than the hills.  The ‘51 Giants allegedly had a guy with binoculars in the scoreboard who would relay pitches.  Teams playing the Astros had an idea of what was going on.  But Bob Gibson types don’t exist these days.  He would have had his catcher call a slider away and drilled the guy with a 95 MPH fastball in the ribs.  That would have ended their little ploy.

Baseball has had cheating forever.  It’s part of the game.

There's cheating and there's cheating.

PEDs are way beyond the pale of "acceptable" cheating for this reason alone:  they make a mockery of the record books by physically enhancing a player's strength, recovery, quick-twitch, what have you.  Remember when 500 HRs meant something and only the all-timers reached that climbed that magical mountain?  It's become a diluted accomplishment now, thanks to rampant PED usage.

Uppers . . . well, that's a mixed bag in terms of "helping."  

As for stealing signs, it's one thing for players on the field/in the dugout to catch them or a tell or what have you; but using cameras and electronic signaling is also beyond the pale.

And putting foreign substances on the ball should be (and is) banned.  And I think enforcement has been pretty good, despite early shows of protest by the likes of Sergio Romo.  It's good to root out that kind of beyond-the-pale cheating.

I agree that PEDs are likely still in use and that detection lags catching users.  But you have to try and eliminate them whatever way you can.