[msqueri]

Has something changed compared to 5+ years ago, when our players were expounding the same things, but going to a bowl every year, and winning the PAC-12 north about every other year (2012, 2013, 2015, 2017)?



I think our playbook was just as big (probably bigger), the term “intellectual brutality” was in its heyday, and our players pointing out the same aspects about our approach than they do now. So what has changed?



One can argue that the “intellectual” thing is neither here nor there, and that the difference is the loss of brutality, due to changes in S&C, the transfer portal, injuries, or the guys we recruit (or a combination thereof).



A theory of the case must account for a Stanford that is at the bottom of the conference now, but also one that was at the top of the league a half decade ago.



BC

Yes, many things, but in short: the magic ran out. The 2011-2015 teams still had tons of Harbaugh era fingerprints on them. Every year the fingerprints got fainter. In 2016, for instance, we still could put a good defense out there. But the personality of the team shifted over time to the point where the 2022 personality is not recognizable compared to 2011-2015. Shaw excelled spectacularly as a steward of an identity crafted by Harbaugh and then continued to excel spectacularly as the lab scientist concocting an identity that melded Harbaugh and Shaw. (In many cases, the happy medium between Harbaugh and Shaw was far better than Harbaugh, actually) But eventually Shaw was no longer the steward nor the scientist but rather the architect. It became fully his, and THAT identity is not a winning one.

Some things that may have changed:

* As you noted, the emphasis over time shifted from the Brutality in Intellectual Brutality to the Intellectual. If the Brutality was really the salient factor, the Intellectual being emphasized does us no favors. This can't be underestimated.

* One of the best offensive minds in the sport, Greg Roman, left but we continued to do the complexity thing but without his chops. Complex is good if it's brilliant but complex is not necessarily brilliant. Many of us have viewed Shaw's failed NFL tenure and having to then take a job below the major college football level on Harbaugh's USD staff as very longstanding evidence Shaw is not an offensive genius. And then our offenses in 2012, 2014, 2016, 2018, and 2019 made pretty clear statements undermining a claim to brilliance.

* The players who cut their teeth under two of the best defensive coaches in the sport, Vic Fangio and Derek Mason, are long gone. The coaches who remain have no track record of good defense once the fingerprints all over the defense have been theirs. As a result, the defense cratered over time and could no longer hide the offense's warts.

* Turley got fired.

* Eventually all the Harbaugh-recruited football fanatic guys cycled out and every player on the roster was a Stanford Man Renaissance Man with a personality that appeals to Shaw. This has an effect on intensity, work ethic, team culture, and more.

* Eventually every player on Stanford's roster became a player with no memory of having played on a great team. We are now multiple seasons into having a roster of players who have only known mediocrity. Aside from Fields, the grand total of players who have ever even played in a bowl game are Michael Wilson, Kendall Williamson, Jacob Mangum-Farrar, Jay Symonds, Ethan Bonner, and Ricky Miezan. Eight players on the roster who have played in a bowl game. And only three (Fields, Wilson, Williamson) were significant parts of a bowl, and for Wilson and Williamson that was the 14-13 win over Pitt at the Sun Bowl, hardly the habit-forming crucible of a good team. Our players basically have no idea what it takes to win, no experience winning, and, more to the point, know how to lose and are used to it and are probably living just fine lives having the habits and accountability they've had. All of this has an effect on intensity, work ethic, team culture, and more as well.

I think this theory of the case is very robust in response to all the evidence. Really, the magic ran out. Shaw managed a beautiful alchemy but what had been turning into gold eventually turned into vinegar when he forgot or lost access to some of the ingredients. An attempt at a pithy description of the arc:

2011: Come on, he inherited Andrew Luck, David DeCastro, Jonathan Martin, Chase Thomas, Coby Fleener, Delano Howell, Stepfan Taylor, and Ben Gardner.

2012: Leveraged the dominance of Trent Murphy, Chase Thomas, Ben Gardner, and Ed Reynolds partying in the backfield to weather a rocky QB transition

2013: Still dominant due to all of those players plus Shayne Skov back, and the offense was on firmer, or at least more consistent footing

2014: brobdingnagian disappointment relative to talent and defensive performance, the limitations of Shawfense and severe reliance on great QB/OL play, which many had noted in 2012 and 2013, finally bit us. But still a good team.

2015: Everything clicked, and I will always argue against those who don't give Shaw credit. This is why I refer to alchemy and the combination of his and Harbaugh's influence. Harbaugh-recruited players wouldn't have done this because Harbaugh couldn't recruit on paper like Shaw and would have been hard-pressed to hit on a class like his 2008 class in a hundred years.

2016: Shaw's sea level, as TJ says, became clearer. The combination of Shaw's recruiting and enough muscle memory from the days of true Intellectual Brutality was enough that the team was still good.

2017: Another season I give Shaw a ton of credit for. The team still had a winning attitude and muscle memory and Shaw had recruited very well. Borderline great team, and very far removed from Harbaugh. Along with 2015 Shaw's crowning achievement when adjusting for circumstances and apportioning credit.

2018: Still a good team but I think this is where the bottom fell out and we saw the unsustainability of Shaw's alchemy and the identity he grafted on to the team. Intellectual Brutality simply no longer described either side of the ball. Period. 100 percent an empty slogan. Not an identity. The actual identity was what Shaw had been developing over years - complexity without Roman/Fangio/Mason, run-oriented philosophy without brutes of the like Harbaugh favored, Anderson trying to make the flame alive but without dudes in the front seven (though the underachievement of said front seven was epic)

2019: The same but now no longer even Turley-trained and the roster even more completely comprised by players who hadn't played important roles on great teams.

Every year since has seen more and more of that process. Now, in 2022, we're trying to reverse the process and recreate a winning culture. But there is no more winning culture anymore, hence the comments we see not only from Fields but, more tellingly and honestly, Shaw himself and all the players and coaches talking about how Fields knows how to win and how to teach other players to have the habits and accountability that gets there. Create. Teach. We're starting over.

[msqueri]

Has something changed compared to 5+ years ago, when our players were expounding the same things, but going to a bowl every year, and winning the PAC-12 north about every other year (2012, 2013, 2015, 2017)?



I think our playbook was just as big (probably bigger), the term “intellectual brutality” was in its heyday, and our players pointing out the same aspects about our approach than they do now. So what has changed?



One can argue that the “intellectual” thing is neither here nor there, and that the difference is the loss of brutality, due to changes in S&C, the transfer portal, injuries, or the guys we recruit (or a combination thereof).



A theory of the case must account for a Stanford that is at the bottom of the conference now, but also one that was at the top of the league a half decade ago.



BC

Yes, many things, but in short: the magic ran out. The 2011-2015 teams still had tons of Harbaugh era fingerprints on them. Every year the fingerprints got fainter. In 2016, for instance, we still could put a good defense out there. But the personality of the team shifted over time to the point where the 2022 personality is not recognizable compared to 2011-2015. Shaw excelled spectacularly as a steward of an identity crafted by Harbaugh and then continued to excel spectacularly as the lab scientist concocting an identity that melded Harbaugh and Shaw. (In many cases, the happy medium between Harbaugh and Shaw was far better than Harbaugh, actually) But eventually Shaw was no longer the steward nor the scientist but rather the architect. It became fully his, and THAT identity is not a winning one.

Some things that may have changed:

* As you noted, the emphasis over time shifted from the Brutality in Intellectual Brutality to the Intellectual. If the Brutality was really the salient factor, the Intellectual being emphasized does us no favors. This can't be underestimated.

* One of the best offensive minds in the sport, Greg Roman, left but we continued to do the complexity thing but without his chops. Complex is good if it's brilliant but complex is not necessarily brilliant. Many of us have viewed Shaw's failed NFL tenure and having to then take a job below the major college football level on Harbaugh's USD staff as very longstanding evidence Shaw is not an offensive genius. And then our offenses in 2012, 2014, 2016, 2018, and 2019 made pretty clear statements undermining a claim to brilliance.

* The players who cut their teeth under two of the best defensive coaches in the sport, Vic Fangio and Derek Mason, are long gone. The coaches who remain have no track record of good defense once the fingerprints all over the defense have been theirs. As a result, the defense cratered over time and could no longer hide the offense's warts.

* Turley got fired.

* Eventually all the Harbaugh-recruited football fanatic guys cycled out and every player on the roster was a Stanford Man Renaissance Man with a personality that appeals to Shaw. This has an effect on intensity, work ethic, team culture, and more.

* Eventually every player on Stanford's roster became a player with no memory of having played on a great team. We are now multiple seasons into having a roster of players who have only known mediocrity. Aside from Fields, the grand total of players who have ever even played in a bowl game are Michael Wilson, Kendall Williamson, Jacob Mangum-Farrar, Jay Symonds, Ethan Bonner, and Ricky Miezan. Eight players on the roster who have played in a bowl game. And only three (Fields, Wilson, Williamson) were significant parts of a bowl, and for Wilson and Williamson that was the 14-13 win over Pitt at the Sun Bowl, hardly the habit-forming crucible of a good team. Our players basically have no idea what it takes to win, no experience winning, and, more to the point, know how to lose and are used to it and are probably living just fine lives having the habits and accountability they've had. All of this has an effect on intensity, work ethic, team culture, and more as well.

I think this theory of the case is very robust in response to all the evidence. Really, the magic ran out. Shaw managed a beautiful alchemy but what had been turning into gold eventually turned into vinegar when he forgot or lost access to some of the ingredients. An attempt at a pithy description of the arc:

2011: Come on, he inherited Andrew Luck, David DeCastro, Jonathan Martin, Chase Thomas, Coby Fleener, Delano Howell, Stepfan Taylor, and Ben Gardner.

2012: Leveraged the dominance of Trent Murphy, Chase Thomas, Ben Gardner, and Ed Reynolds partying in the backfield to weather a rocky QB transition

2013: Still dominant due to all of those players plus Shayne Skov back, and the offense was on firmer, or at least more consistent footing

2014: brobdingnagian disappointment relative to talent and defensive performance, the limitations of Shawfense and severe reliance on great QB/OL play, which many had noted in 2012 and 2013, finally bit us. But still a good team.

2015: Everything clicked, and I will always argue against those who don't give Shaw credit. This is why I refer to alchemy and the combination of his and Harbaugh's influence. Harbaugh-recruited players wouldn't have done this because Harbaugh couldn't recruit on paper like Shaw and would have been hard-pressed to hit on a class like his 2008 class in a hundred years.

2016: Shaw's sea level, as TJ says, became clearer. The combination of Shaw's recruiting and enough muscle memory from the days of true Intellectual Brutality was enough that the team was still good.

2017: Another season I give Shaw a ton of credit for. The team still had a winning attitude and muscle memory and Shaw had recruited very well. Borderline great team, and very far removed from Harbaugh. Along with 2015 Shaw's crowning achievement when adjusting for circumstances and apportioning credit.

2018: Still a good team but I think this is where the bottom fell out and we saw the unsustainability of Shaw's alchemy and the identity he grafted on to the team. Intellectual Brutality simply no longer described either side of the ball. Period. 100 percent an empty slogan. Not an identity. The actual identity was what Shaw had been developing over years - complexity without Roman/Fangio/Mason, run-oriented philosophy without brutes of the like Harbaugh favored, Anderson trying to make the flame alive but without dudes in the front seven (though the underachievement of said front seven was epic)

2019: The same but now no longer even Turley-trained and the roster even more completely comprised by players who hadn't played important roles on great teams.

Every year since has seen more and more of that process. Now, in 2022, we're trying to reverse the process and recreate a winning culture. But there is no more winning culture anymore, hence the comments we see not only from Fields but, more tellingly and honestly, Shaw himself and all the players and coaches talking about how Fields knows how to win and how to teach other players to have the habits and accountability that gets there. Create. Teach. We're starting over.