[lex24]

Any commentary regarding game attendance in 2021 (and to a lesser degree, 2022) without considering the pandemic’s influence is shortsighted.

100% bullshit. Every team faced restrictions on attendance in 2021. The Dodgers were down a lot too, but they still led MLB. The Giants aren't some special case. They simply didn't do enough to get the fans excited about the team before the season started. Imagine if they didn't have a historic season how far down they would have been.

Farhan Zaidi was hired based on a plan to jettison a lot of high salaries that weren't producing, and to invest in the farm system. The 2021 season was an anomaly he couldn't have predicted. But even after 107 wins, he didn't deviate from his plan. As I posted earlier, the Giants now have only $12M in current salary commitments in 2024. Farhan has done nearly the impossible, kept a team above .500 and arguably a second tier contender, while totally tearing it down to build what he REALLY wants.  

Comparing the Fodgers' spending habits in their situation to the Giants in their's is not realistic, for two primary reasons:

1. The Fodgers have had a productive farm system that the Giants haven't for a decade
2. The Fodgers have a bigger stadium and TV deal

The Giants didn't have the prospects to trade for Mookie Betts. The Dodgers did. Maybe the Giants pay for him if they could get him, we'll never know.

If we're still talking about the Giants having a less than Top 10 payroll in 2024, I'll completely buy into the notion ownership doesn't want to spend. But I just see a lot of reasons to believe this isn't the case, and they are more following a rebuilding plan that enhances long-term competitiveness than they are being cheap on purpose. 

This in no way diminishes my angst that they aren't spending more now, just looking at the available information and drawing conclusions. But I do think the attendance drop very well may lead to a bit of a deviation from the preferred rebuilding plan because it is pretty clear a star or two is needed on the team. 

The Giants may need to make a Manny Machado-type signing like the Padres did, perhaps has early as this off season, when they had a ton of top prospects on the verge of making the show, for fans to see the team was all in. Because even if Luciano and Harrison are going to be part of the team in 2023, the Giants are going to need a bit more than that to excite the fan base. Again, Trey Turner would be the perfect signing for 2023 season, then Shohei Ohtani in 2024?

Attendance across baseball is down about 5% from pre-pandemic.  So, that is one of the factors.  Giants are 12th in attendance.  Down to about 30,000 a game. In ‘19 33,000.  Last year, despite 107 wins and a thrilling pennant race, they were, just as they are now, 12th. I think the pandemic plays some role.  Bay Area probably being a bit more cautious.  

But certainly there are other reasons.  I’ll let the marketers figure that out. But in general, I don’t think this team, with its revolving door and general list of quasi no names, has captured the imagination.  Go to a game.  The players that will get the loudest cheers are Crawford and Belt.  Throughout their run, the Giants marketed their players.  Now they market the uniform. Bochy was beloved. Kaplers kind of a funny duck. 

As for spending, there is an element of truth in what you say.  But it does not explain why the Giants passed on all of the major FA’s. Signing one would have done nothing to upset the plan.  And SUPPOSEDLY, they tried and failed to sign several.  I capitalized supposedly cause I question the validity of whether they truly were in the big FA market.  Next year will tell us the story, I think.  Rodon will be gone.  Longoria bought out for 5 Million. Belt won’t get close to 18 million - he certainly won’t get a qualifying offer. Giants will again need to sign a top end starting pitcher. Can’t blame the ballpark if they don’t. And if Judge or Turner are out, both should be gone after, hard.  If not, we have our answer.

Giant fans are not a patient lot.  Hopefully what this year shows the owners is they have to spend more to make more.  It’s a star oriented marketplace.  Has been as long as I can remember.

Just curious….

Knowing what you know today (that most of the nine figure free agents signed during the off-season have not lived up to their billing), who do you still wish SF had signed?

Note:  This is not meant to stir things up.  I am just curious if you think any of the guys we discussed throughout the off-season are players who would have been a good move by SF.

My take (speaking strictly in hindsight) - If (a very big if) SF signs a significant free agent in the upcoming off-season, perhaps it was wise to pass on last year’s class.

You cannot take 70 games of a FA contract and say bust.  Many who struggle early will turn it around.  This has also been a weird year as it appears changes to the baseball has had an impact. Hindsight is 20/20 anyway.  But to answer

Marte
Suzuki
Gausman
Story

If you notice the three regulars all are athletic and excellent defensively, along with what they bring offensively.  Any one of the three.  

I get why they didn’t resign Gausman. Long term with pitchers is riskier. But I sure like the idea of a front end rotation of Webb, Gausman and Rodon.

To a lesser extent Castellanos - he’s just a bat.  No value defensively or athletically.  

I would not have gone after Schwarber, Bryant, Seager (not at that price) Semien (ditto) or Freeman (doesn’t fit positionally) 

I think you go to games, occasionally, as do I.  My latest was Friday vs. Reds.  I expected the offensive struggle - they just finished a grueling 4 day series in Hotlanta and had no travel off day. Due to be flat.  What struck me in watching the game was the incredible lack of speed. And the impact that has. The players I’d have gone after would bring added speed and defense.  Giants need both. So even if Marte, for example  isn’t tearing it up offensively, he’d  have helped this team.  Suzuki got hurt.  No way to account for that in advance (assuming a lack of prior injuries ).

[lex24]

Any commentary regarding game attendance in 2021 (and to a lesser degree, 2022) without considering the pandemic’s influence is shortsighted.

100% bullshit. Every team faced restrictions on attendance in 2021. The Dodgers were down a lot too, but they still led MLB. The Giants aren't some special case. They simply didn't do enough to get the fans excited about the team before the season started. Imagine if they didn't have a historic season how far down they would have been.

Farhan Zaidi was hired based on a plan to jettison a lot of high salaries that weren't producing, and to invest in the farm system. The 2021 season was an anomaly he couldn't have predicted. But even after 107 wins, he didn't deviate from his plan. As I posted earlier, the Giants now have only $12M in current salary commitments in 2024. Farhan has done nearly the impossible, kept a team above .500 and arguably a second tier contender, while totally tearing it down to build what he REALLY wants.  

Comparing the Fodgers' spending habits in their situation to the Giants in their's is not realistic, for two primary reasons:

1. The Fodgers have had a productive farm system that the Giants haven't for a decade
2. The Fodgers have a bigger stadium and TV deal

The Giants didn't have the prospects to trade for Mookie Betts. The Dodgers did. Maybe the Giants pay for him if they could get him, we'll never know.

If we're still talking about the Giants having a less than Top 10 payroll in 2024, I'll completely buy into the notion ownership doesn't want to spend. But I just see a lot of reasons to believe this isn't the case, and they are more following a rebuilding plan that enhances long-term competitiveness than they are being cheap on purpose. 

This in no way diminishes my angst that they aren't spending more now, just looking at the available information and drawing conclusions. But I do think the attendance drop very well may lead to a bit of a deviation from the preferred rebuilding plan because it is pretty clear a star or two is needed on the team. 

The Giants may need to make a Manny Machado-type signing like the Padres did, perhaps has early as this off season, when they had a ton of top prospects on the verge of making the show, for fans to see the team was all in. Because even if Luciano and Harrison are going to be part of the team in 2023, the Giants are going to need a bit more than that to excite the fan base. Again, Trey Turner would be the perfect signing for 2023 season, then Shohei Ohtani in 2024?

Attendance across baseball is down about 5% from pre-pandemic.  So, that is one of the factors.  Giants are 12th in attendance.  Down to about 30,000 a game. In ‘19 33,000.  Last year, despite 107 wins and a thrilling pennant race, they were, just as they are now, 12th. I think the pandemic plays some role.  Bay Area probably being a bit more cautious.  

But certainly there are other reasons.  I’ll let the marketers figure that out. But in general, I don’t think this team, with its revolving door and general list of quasi no names, has captured the imagination.  Go to a game.  The players that will get the loudest cheers are Crawford and Belt.  Throughout their run, the Giants marketed their players.  Now they market the uniform. Bochy was beloved. Kaplers kind of a funny duck. 

As for spending, there is an element of truth in what you say.  But it does not explain why the Giants passed on all of the major FA’s. Signing one would have done nothing to upset the plan.  And SUPPOSEDLY, they tried and failed to sign several.  I capitalized supposedly cause I question the validity of whether they truly were in the big FA market.  Next year will tell us the story, I think.  Rodon will be gone.  Longoria bought out for 5 Million. Belt won’t get close to 18 million - he certainly won’t get a qualifying offer. Giants will again need to sign a top end starting pitcher. Can’t blame the ballpark if they don’t. And if Judge or Turner are out, both should be gone after, hard.  If not, we have our answer.

Giant fans are not a patient lot.  Hopefully what this year shows the owners is they have to spend more to make more.  It’s a star oriented marketplace.  Has been as long as I can remember.

Just curious….

Knowing what you know today (that most of the nine figure free agents signed during the off-season have not lived up to their billing), who do you still wish SF had signed?

Note:  This is not meant to stir things up.  I am just curious if you think any of the guys we discussed throughout the off-season are players who would have been a good move by SF.

My take (speaking strictly in hindsight) - If (a very big if) SF signs a significant free agent in the upcoming off-season, perhaps it was wise to pass on last year’s class.

You cannot take 70 games of a FA contract and say bust.  Many who struggle early will turn it around.  This has also been a weird year as it appears changes to the baseball has had an impact. Hindsight is 20/20 anyway.  But to answer

Marte
Suzuki
Gausman
Story

If you notice the three regulars all are athletic and excellent defensively, along with what they bring offensively.  Any one of the three.  

I get why they didn’t resign Gausman. Long term with pitchers is riskier. But I sure like the idea of a front end rotation of Webb, Gausman and Rodon.

To a lesser extent Castellanos - he’s just a bat.  No value defensively or athletically.  

I would not have gone after Schwarber, Bryant, Seager (not at that price) Semien (ditto) or Freeman (doesn’t fit positionally) 

I think you go to games, occasionally, as do I.  My latest was Friday vs. Reds.  I expected the offensive struggle - they just finished a grueling 4 day series in Hotlanta and had no travel off day. Due to be flat.  What struck me in watching the game was the incredible lack of speed. And the impact that has. The players I’d have gone after would bring added speed and defense.  Giants need both. So even if Marte, for example  isn’t tearing it up offensively, he’d  have helped this team.  Suzuki got hurt.  No way to account for that in advance (assuming a lack of prior injuries ).