[msqueri]

msqueri, what kind of defensive talent was Wisconsin working with? Were they getting elite results from elite players? Were they coaching up 3 stars to play like 4 and 5 stars? Or just playing solid overall defense without standouts?

On paper Wisconsin's overall talent has been lesser than Stanford's virtually every year in this stretch. 247 talent composite numbers with Wisconsin listed first and Stanford second:

2015: #37 vs. #18
2016: #37 vs. #17
2017: #37 vs. #14
2018: #36 vs. #18
2019: #33 vs. #20
2020: #27 vs. #20
2021: #21 vs. #25
2022: #28 vs. #23

The big bump up starting in 2020 was in large part due to April's recruiting, as he hauled in composite top 200 OLBs Nick Herbig and Kaden Johnson, a level of recruit Wisconsin does not typically attract. And then in 2021 April brought in another composite top 200 edge player, TJ Bollers. Those three are a big part of the story in what drove up Wisconsin's talent. In general Wisconsin's talent profile has been high-profile OL and then 3-stars to fill out the rest of the roster. April added OLB to the list of 4-star positions but generally speaking Wisconsin is not a top 25 talent program on paper while Stanford is.

On the 2022 rosters, here's how on paper 4-star defensive talent compared between Wisconsin and Stanford:

Wisconsin: 5 LBs, 1 S, 0 DL, 0 CB

Stanford: 7 LBs, 1 CB, 0 DL, 0 S

The similarity between the two is striking. Hard to find a more similar defense talent-wise. That's a big part of why Wisconsin is such an attractive defense for Stanford to emulate.

For what it's worth, Stanford's 2023 roster looks like it will lose Herron and Turner-Muhammad and add Frausto-Ramos (and hopefully Leviticus Su'a but I'm not counting on that), so a slight tick down but with the core of the defense, all the 4-star edge guys, getting a year older (i.e., I think a year more of development for Bailey, Cooper, Tafiti, Armitage, and Aybar outweighs the loss of Herron). Qualitatively this seems like a slightly more talented defense, on paper, than either Stanford or Wisconsin's 2022 roster.

On paper is an important qualification as evaluation, strength and conditioning, development, and the precise picture at the 3-star level that primarily mans both defenses are all super important parts of the puzzle. It would stand to reason it would take April and Co. a few years to get Stanford in shape. While the answer to the basic question is that Wisconsin's defense does not have better on paper talent than Stanford, Wisconsin certainly ends up with better talent.

One way to test this is NFL draft picks, which provides an after-the-fact retrospective on the talent to complement the picture provided by recruiting rankings. In the five years from 2018-2022, Stanford had seven defensive players drafted: DB Justin Reid, DT Harrison Phillips, LB Peter Kalambayi, LB Bobby Okereke, LB Casey Toohill, DB Paulson Adebo, and DT Thomas Booker. In that same span, Wisconsin had 12 defensive players drafted: DB Nick Nelson, DB Natrell Jamerson, LB Jack Cichy, LB Leon Jacobs, LB Ryan Connelly, LB Andrew Van Ginkel, LB Zack Baun, DT Isaiahh Laudermilk, DB Rachad Wildgoose, LB Leo Chenal, DT Matt Henningsen, CB Faion Hicks. Stanford has consistently better defensive recruiting rankings yet Wisconsin has consistently more defensive NFL talent.

My bottom line is Wisconsin's defensive model is maybe the single one in the entire country we'd want to emulate. While I would have rather gotten the architects themselves - Dave Aranda especially but arguably Leonhard too, and certainly Leonhard would have been thrilling as DC - if we can surround April with D'Onofrio and Kolodziej we're getting at least a plausible consolation prize.

[msqueri]

msqueri, what kind of defensive talent was Wisconsin working with? Were they getting elite results from elite players? Were they coaching up 3 stars to play like 4 and 5 stars? Or just playing solid overall defense without standouts?

On paper Wisconsin's overall talent has been lesser than Stanford's virtually every year in this stretch. 247 talent composite numbers with Wisconsin listed first and Stanford second:

2015: #37 vs. #18
2016: #37 vs. #17
2017: #37 vs. #14
2018: #36 vs. #18
2019: #33 vs. #20
2020: #27 vs. #20
2021: #21 vs. #25
2022: #28 vs. #23

The big bump up starting in 2020 was in large part due to April's recruiting, as he hauled in composite top 200 OLBs Nick Herbig and Kaden Johnson, a level of recruit Wisconsin does not typically attract. And then in 2021 April brought in another composite top 200 edge player, TJ Bollers. Those three are a big part of the story in what drove up Wisconsin's talent. In general Wisconsin's talent profile has been high-profile OL and then 3-stars to fill out the rest of the roster. April added OLB to the list of 4-star positions but generally speaking Wisconsin is not a top 25 talent program on paper while Stanford is.

On the 2022 rosters, here's how on paper 4-star defensive talent compared between Wisconsin and Stanford:

Wisconsin: 5 LBs, 1 S, 0 DL, 0 CB

Stanford: 7 LBs, 1 CB, 0 DL, 0 S

The similarity between the two is striking. Hard to find a more similar defense talent-wise. That's a big part of why Wisconsin is such an attractive defense for Stanford to emulate.

For what it's worth, Stanford's 2023 roster looks like it will lose Herron and Turner-Muhammad and add Frausto-Ramos (and hopefully Leviticus Su'a but I'm not counting on that), so a slight tick down but with the core of the defense, all the 4-star edge guys, getting a year older (i.e., I think a year more of development for Bailey, Cooper, Tafiti, Armitage, and Aybar outweighs the loss of Herron). Qualitatively this seems like a slightly more talented defense, on paper, than either Stanford or Wisconsin's 2022 roster.

On paper is an important qualification as evaluation, strength and conditioning, development, and the precise picture at the 3-star level that primarily mans both defenses are all super important parts of the puzzle. It would stand to reason it would take April and Co. a few years to get Stanford in shape. While the answer to the basic question is that Wisconsin's defense does not have better on paper talent than Stanford, Wisconsin certainly ends up with better talent.

One way to test this is NFL draft picks, which provides an after-the-fact retrospective on the talent to complement the picture provided by recruiting rankings. In the five years from 2018-2022, Stanford had seven defensive players drafted: DB Justin Reid, DT Harrison Phillips, LB Peter Kalambayi, LB Bobby Okereke, LB Casey Toohill, DB Paulson Adebo, and DT Thomas Booker. In that same span, Wisconsin had 12 defensive players drafted: DB Nick Nelson, DB Natrell Jamerson, LB Jack Cichy, LB Leon Jacobs, LB Ryan Connelly, LB Andrew Van Ginkel, LB Zack Baun, DT Isaiahh Laudermilk, DB Rachad Wildgoose, LB Leo Chenal, DT Matt Henningsen, CB Faion Hicks. Stanford has consistently better defensive recruiting rankings yet Wisconsin has consistently more defensive NFL talent.

My bottom line is Wisconsin's defensive model is maybe the single one in the entire country we'd want to emulate. While I would have rather gotten the architects themselves - Dave Aranda especially but arguably Leonhard too, and certainly Leonhard would have been thrilling as DC - if we can surround April with D'Onofrio and Kolodziej we're getting at least a plausible consolation prize.