[StanUSwagU]

(3) NotreDame in Football & Duke in Mens Basketball have already shown that you dont have to 'entirely 100% forsake your values' to be successful.

Which values are you referring to?

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/...violations
https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/...-football/
https://www.ktbs.com/news/incaseyoumisse...ae1ba.html
https://fightingirish.com/ncaa-slaps-not...probation/

BTW, I am not claiming that we are holier than thou; after all Stanford was hit with violations a few years ago (https://stanforddaily.com/2016/09/15/sta...-softball/)

But as the article from Chris Smith notes, even if you agree that Notre Dame does things “the right way”, it “tends to mask the fact that college football, regardless of where it's played, is all about business.”

When you point to Notre Dame and Duke, you are pointing to two academically well respected institutions who also have winning athletic programs (in football and basketball, respectively) but the two things are almost no more connected than the fact that the Bay Area has successful academic universities (Stanford, Cal) and successful major athletic programs (the Giants, Warriors, and Niners). That’s a bit of hyperbole, but that is clearly the direction of travel, and if I sound like a negative Nellie all the time, it is because I don’t like the destination.  I don’t really care for an NCAA where you have students and athletes but not student-athletes.

BC

Hi BC,

Hope all is well.

I think above you stated 1 of my points more concisely than I did, but in the inverse.

My point was that for any of us here at Stanford who are clutching our pearls claiming or thinking we wouldn't want to adopt the model of Duke for Mens Basketball or NotreDame for football because that would be 'lowering our academic or ethical or moral standard', I think that is fallacy. Stanfords 'academic, ethical, or moral standard' is not on a higher plane than Duke or NotreDame.

You in effect said this with your honest assertion about not 'claiming to be holier than thou due to our (Stanford's) academic scandals & violations.' ..which I interpret to mean that 'We at Stanford are not on some higher ethical/academic/moral standard than Duke or NotreDame.


That was my only point;

I seem to read a lot on this board about 'not wanting to lower our academic/moral/ethical standards' ...but remember I am not suggesting we transition to being Oklahoma & SMU of the 1980s or the U of Miami of the 1990s ...I am just suggesting we look very closely at Duke & Notre Dame & try to adopt as much as we can from their models regarding how they approach Mens Basketball & Football, respectively.

As usual, thanks for your 'real data' links & references.

[StanUSwagU]

(3) NotreDame in Football & Duke in Mens Basketball have already shown that you dont have to 'entirely 100% forsake your values' to be successful.

Which values are you referring to?

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/...violations
https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/...-football/
https://www.ktbs.com/news/incaseyoumisse...ae1ba.html
https://fightingirish.com/ncaa-slaps-not...probation/

BTW, I am not claiming that we are holier than thou; after all Stanford was hit with violations a few years ago (https://stanforddaily.com/2016/09/15/sta...-softball/)

But as the article from Chris Smith notes, even if you agree that Notre Dame does things “the right way”, it “tends to mask the fact that college football, regardless of where it's played, is all about business.”

When you point to Notre Dame and Duke, you are pointing to two academically well respected institutions who also have winning athletic programs (in football and basketball, respectively) but the two things are almost no more connected than the fact that the Bay Area has successful academic universities (Stanford, Cal) and successful major athletic programs (the Giants, Warriors, and Niners). That’s a bit of hyperbole, but that is clearly the direction of travel, and if I sound like a negative Nellie all the time, it is because I don’t like the destination.  I don’t really care for an NCAA where you have students and athletes but not student-athletes.

BC

Hi BC,

Hope all is well.

I think above you stated 1 of my points more concisely than I did, but in the inverse.

My point was that for any of us here at Stanford who are clutching our pearls claiming or thinking we wouldn't want to adopt the model of Duke for Mens Basketball or NotreDame for football because that would be 'lowering our academic or ethical or moral standard', I think that is fallacy. Stanfords 'academic, ethical, or moral standard' is not on a higher plane than Duke or NotreDame.

You in effect said this with your honest assertion about not 'claiming to be holier than thou due to our (Stanford's) academic scandals & violations.' ..which I interpret to mean that 'We at Stanford are not on some higher ethical/academic/moral standard than Duke or NotreDame.


That was my only point;

I seem to read a lot on this board about 'not wanting to lower our academic/moral/ethical standards' ...but remember I am not suggesting we transition to being Oklahoma & SMU of the 1980s or the U of Miami of the 1990s ...I am just suggesting we look very closely at Duke & Notre Dame & try to adopt as much as we can from their models regarding how they approach Mens Basketball & Football, respectively.

As usual, thanks for your 'real data' links & references.