Donald Trump tested positive for COVID

[Farm93]

What do you think will "dominate our nation" for the next decade (other than for 8 of those years, we might have the same, new person as President), assuming he or she does a good enough job to get re-elected?

I didn't quite want to state the obvious, but....

Trump lives and it becomes clear he would have tested positive BEFORE the debate if he took the agreed test or worse had already tested positive but the campaign decided he just had to attend using the debate mandated social distancing as the rationale for their action.

Either way...Joe Biden tests COVID19 positive this weekend.   Rewinding 4-6 days from that positive would land squarely on Tuesday evening.  Therefore the choices by Team Trump on COVID directly impact the political candidate that was super careful but agreed to debate given the testing conditions that were skipped.

Joe Biden then either is very sick or dies.  Democrats, with a very sick Presidential candidate or a dead President lose again to COVID surviving Trump perhaps enhanced by Biden's inability to campaign because he is on a ventilator in late-October.

You can guess the chaos from there....

Cheers...

So if Joe Joe makes it to Monday, then the Great Fear will have passed?  Is the Great Fear only if Joe theoretically could have contracted Covid from Trump?

As you know, there is ample time for Biden to get Covid pre-election, even if he is careful.  Then what?  Will we all be paralyzed for the next decade?  [I know you don't actually believe that, but the point is to reinforce that life (and the republic) will go on no matter who contracts Covid].

Incubation period is normally 4-6 days, so he needs to get to Monday to get through the normal window.   However, there are two caveats.  
1) Incubation can take up to 10+ days, so that would be Thursday or Friday.
2) Anyone from Joe's campaign in attendance at the debate could trace their exposure to those mask-free types from team Trump then give it to Joe as a secondary step.

Those two situations leave enough doubt that it would be harder for others to blame Trump even if they feel like the USA's horrible COVID containment efforts impacted Joe's health & campaign.

No matter the source of infection Joe on a ventilator in late October would be a big negative for his campaign.  I suspect this is why Joe's mask was upgraded to an N95 mask this weekend.  And there will be a lot of requests for Joe to just stay in his basement for the rest of the month.

He could easily claim out of respect for the process he will not campaign in person as long as Trump is physically unable to travel.  That would give him the high ground as the healthier candidate, paint Trump as the weak candidate AND allow Joe to stay in the basement for 2-3 weeks at least.

I agree, the United States will survive even with really bad leadership.   Past presidents have led after strokes and CHF, so POTUS greatness is not required.   However, another 4-8 years of ineffective leadership should be enough for the world to select a different nation to serve as the leader of global initiatives on things like health, climate, economics.  Whether that is good or bad would move too far away from COVID IMHO to be on the board here.

[BostonCard]

I would add that the fact that they gave him dexamethasone shows that he was sicker than has been portrayed.  Unlike some of the other drugs, we actually have good data about dexamethasone in COVID-19 (thanks to the British).  Not only does dexamethasone work better the sicker a patient is, it actually looked like it caused harm in patients with mild disease (not requiring oxygen).  So, this is not the kind of drug you give “out of an abundance of caution”; it’s one you give when you have to.

It suggests that his hypoxia was more profound and more prolonged than has been suggested.

BC

[OutsiderFan]

More people are starting to question when the POTUS was infected, and when the White House knew it. This picture was taken on Monday, Sept. 28, and nobody can ever remember an instance where the POTUS and VPOTUS were so distanced. It's entirely possible the White House knew he was infected by Monday, Sept. 28.

[Snorlax94]

It’s Sunday 4:22 pm EST and no Tweets today from Trump so far AND the video from yesterday was removed.

[Genuine Realist]

More people are starting to question when the POTUS was infected, and when the White House knew it. This picture was taken on Monday, Sept. 28, and nobody can ever remember an instance where the POTUS and VPOTUS were so distanced. It's entirely possible the White House knew he was infected by Monday, Sept. 28.

That's close to pure paranoia.

[JJJ]

This may be old news, but...

A video and photos released by the White House meant to show that President Trump is winning his battle with COVID-19 have only raised more questions about an episode clouded by suspicion, rumors and confusion.
Saturday evening the White House released photos of Trump purportedly working at Walter Reed National Military Medical Center. His daughter and senior adviser Ivanka posted one on Twitter, captioned, “Nothing can stop him from working for the American people. RELENTLESS!”
In one photo, Trump is putting his signature on a sheet of paper, which on close observation appears to be blank.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/white-house-t...39237.html

[dabigv13]

More people are starting to question when the POTUS was infected, and when the White House knew it. This picture was taken on Monday, Sept. 28, and nobody can ever remember an instance where the POTUS and VPOTUS were so distanced. It's entirely possible the White House knew he was infected by Monday, Sept. 28.

That's close to pure paranoia.

WSJ reporting today he had already tested positive Thursday when he went on Hannity and said they were waiting for test results. They are liars. Especially a out his health. Skepticism regarding all their claims is paramount.

---

And now Donald went on some sort of stunt SUV drive by to wave to his supporters outside the hospital. Looks like at least 4 other staff in car, (driver, secret service, hopefully someone medical). Incredibly irresponsible. A significant avoidable health risk for all of those people.

[JustAnotherFan]

FYI - just released.

[OutsiderFan]

Let me ask you this, GR:

Do you believe the White House would announce the POTUS was positive for Covid if he tested positive and nobody else around him had tested positive yet?  Keep in mind, as dabigv13 pointed out, the POTUS told Sean Hannity he was waiting for test results when he already knew he was infected.

We know nothing about when the POTUS last tested negative. NOTHING. These are your available options:

1. POTUS wasn't tested until he showed symptoms.
2. He was tested periodically, but not before the Sept. 26 Rose Garden event.
3. He was tested weekly, like on Mondays (which would be impetus for the extra distancing on Monday Sept. 27 event).
4. If 3 is true, he knew he was positive at the debate.

All of them are reprehensible in their own right.

[Snorlax94]

FYI - just released.

Well, this video warrants discussion in many ways.

First, he appears to be healthier than he was yesterday. To me, at times he still seems to get out of breath from just talking, but less than yesterday. And he is able to maintain a better energy level, though I imagine he is also juiced up on a lot of meds.

What may end up being the most significant part is that he says he’s “gone to the real school” about Covid and he learned a lot and we will be seeing big changes. He still feels the need, in the midst of a hospital, to denigrate textbook science, which also happens to be saving his life. But I really hope this means he will finally advocate reponsible, informed positions that Joe Biden has advocated since at least March — advocating universal mask wearing, ramping up high quality PPE production, and taking responsible steps for society instead of just taunting Democratic leaders to “open up.” If he finally adopts these proven methods, it could save many, many lives.

I also couldn’t help noticing he spent about half of the video taking about his dedicated followers, about the crowds outside of Walter Reed. And then, at risk to his own health, and at recklessly irresponsible risk to his driver and staff, he takes a drive around to wave to his adoring followers and relish in their adoration. This despite that it could harm himself and it could kill his staff. Which is to say, Trump still has his same core impulses and needs and continues to be Trump.

[dabigv13]

Looks like he has makeup. He is standing. Would not at all be surprised if he's feeling better from the steroids without actually being better, and the need to wander and go on the bizarre parade could be related too.

[akiddoc]

Looks like he has makeup. He is standing. Would not at all be surprised if he's feeling better from the steroids without actually being better, and the need to wander and go on the bizarre parade could be related too.

Yep. Steroids can make you feel great. When you aren't great. 
No reason to give steroids unless he has an inflammatory reaction to the virus. If they gave dexamethasone for anything short of that it's irresponsible. And dangerous.

[terry]

From an attending physician at Walter Reed:

[82 Card]

Sounds like he is exposing other patients at the hospital. No pictures, so maybe he at least put a mask on.

[magnus]

From an attending physician at Walter Reed:

Is there any partitioning in the vehicle that would at least minimize the chance of exposure to some passengers?

[Genuine Realist]

Let me ask you this, GR:

Do you believe the White House would announce the POTUS was positive for Covid if he tested positive and nobody else around him had tested positive yet?  Keep in mind, as dabigv13 pointed out, the POTUS told Sean Hannity he was waiting for test results when he already knew he was infected.

We know nothing about when the POTUS last tested negative. NOTHING. These are your available options:

1. POTUS wasn't tested until he showed symptoms.
2. He was tested periodically, but not before the Sept. 26 Rose Garden event.
3. He was tested weekly, like on Mondays (which would be impetus for the extra distancing on Monday Sept. 27 event).
4. If 3 is true, he knew he was positive at the debate.

All of them are reprehensible in their own right.

And completely motiveless. Just what was the upside of all this deception?

God knows, I've clashed head to head with Teejers often enough over the years. But we're on the same page here. It's been tough over the past few years to be exasperated and opposed to Trump for ordinary human reasons, and then have to cope with all this demonization. Please look to ordinary human motives - in this case, ordinary prudence - before you go demon hunting.

What do you think you'd be doing if Trump had announced the results of the provisional tests, and then found that the more comprehensive one was inconclusive or negative? I'll tell you. You'd be playing the game in the exact opposite direction.

There's obvious reason to delay an announcement until the conclusive results are in. There is also no advantage of any kind to 'lying' for the sake of lying for two or three days - at least, none that I can see. Think about it.

[teejers1]

Let me ask you this, GR:

Do you believe the White House would announce the POTUS was positive for Covid if he tested positive and nobody else around him had tested positive yet?  Keep in mind, as dabigv13 pointed out, the POTUS told Sean Hannity he was waiting for test results when he already knew he was infected.

We know nothing about when the POTUS last tested negative. NOTHING. These are your available options:

1. POTUS wasn't tested until he showed symptoms.
2. He was tested periodically, but not before the Sept. 26 Rose Garden event.
3. He was tested weekly, like on Mondays (which would be impetus for the extra distancing on Monday Sept. 27 event).
4. If 3 is true, he knew he was positive at the debate.

All of them are reprehensible in their own right.

And completely motiveless. Just what was the upside of all this deception?

God knows, I've clashed head to head with Teejers often enough over the years. But we're on the same page here. It's been tough over the past few years to be exasperated and opposed to Trump for ordinary human reasons, and then have to cope with all this demonization. Please look to ordinary human motives - in this case, ordinary prudence - before you go demon hunting.

What do you think you'd be doing if Trump had announced the results of the provisional tests, and then found that the more comprehensive one was inconclusive or negative? I'll tell you. You'd be playing the game in the exact opposite direction.

There's obvious reason to delay an announcement until the conclusive results are in. There is also no advantage of any kind to 'lying' for the sake of lying for two or three days - at least, none that I can see. Think about it.

Hmm.  Maybe I need to reconsider . . . 

Actually, the negative, mind-losing reaction Trump engenders in so many folks - including very bright people - is so unique that  I wonder if some day it will become a psychological case study included in all the textbooks.  It is a remarkable phenomenon.  For the majority of the MSM, I kinda get it in that they had so much egg-on-face regarding the election results that you could see them thinking to themselves "never again" and acting accordingly.  But for Joe Blow on the street - which includes almost all of us - I've always thought the Trump fixation is allowing him "to win" by dominating Joe Blow's mind set.  I prefer not to give the guy any of my mind share (or as little as possible).  This thread is an example - why does it really matter when or how Trump contracted Covid?   From this thread, it appears some think that (i) if it can be established that Trump was positive before the debate, and (ii) if he knew it, and (iii) if Trump debated anyway with the hope of infecting Biden, and (iv) if Biden subsequently comes down with Covid, then the electorate will be able to blame Trump, and (iv) if those all come true then Trump should be disqualified from even trying to get re-elected, etc. . . .   

I mean . . . is it really worth all that mind share and angst (especially since there are so many holes in that sequence that it makes a block of Swiss cheese look rock solid)?

Me?  I'm content with "you reap what you sow," and Trump getting Covid is that in spades.

[akiddoc]

Let me ask you this, GR:

Do you believe the White House would announce the POTUS was positive for Covid if he tested positive and nobody else around him had tested positive yet?  Keep in mind, as dabigv13 pointed out, the POTUS told Sean Hannity he was waiting for test results when he already knew he was infected.

We know nothing about when the POTUS last tested negative. NOTHING. These are your available options:

1. POTUS wasn't tested until he showed symptoms.
2. He was tested periodically, but not before the Sept. 26 Rose Garden event.
3. He was tested weekly, like on Mondays (which would be impetus for the extra distancing on Monday Sept. 27 event).
4. If 3 is true, he knew he was positive at the debate.

All of them are reprehensible in their own right.

And completely motiveless. Just what was the upside of all this deception?

God knows, I've clashed head to head with Teejers often enough over the years. But we're on the same page here. It's been tough over the past few years to be exasperated and opposed to Trump for ordinary human reasons, and then have to cope with all this demonization. Please look to ordinary human motives - in this case, ordinary prudence - before you go demon hunting.

What do you think you'd be doing if Trump had announced the results of the provisional tests, and then found that the more comprehensive one was inconclusive or negative? I'll tell you. You'd be playing the game in the exact opposite direction.

There's obvious reason to delay an announcement until the conclusive results are in. There is also no advantage of any kind to 'lying' for the sake of lying for two or three days - at least, none that I can see. Think about it.

Once Hicks tested positive, Trump should have gone into quarantine. Period. He continued to expose others. I'm guessing Atlas told him otherwise. Hiring Atlas was irresponsible, listening to Atlas is irresponsible, and exposing others to illness is immoral. Whether he announced a first positive test or not doesn't matter too much since it seems the second test came back quickly, but his behavior even prior to that is reprehensible.

[Goose]

There is also no advantage of any kind to 'lying' for the sake of lying for two or three days - at least, none that I can see. Think about it.

I see no advantage to doing something like that. Unfortunately, how you and I see it doesn't necessarily have any bearing on how the POTUS sees it. It has been amply demonstrated he may not do what most of us on this board expect we would do under similar conditions.

[BostonCard]

I think this can probably be done safely (though not without risk). It looked like the other passengers were wearing N95’s, and though I think any risk for an unnecessary outing was too much, odds are against the other passengers getting COVID from the president.

My bigger issue is the message it sends.  How many people who are infectious and who should be isolating now decide if the president can go out for a ride, why not them?

BC