Bowl Game Frustration

[tomh78]

I'm certain I'm not the only Stanford fan frustrated that we are headed back to El Paso's Sun Bowl for the third time in 10 years!  To me at least, the Sun Bowl is the closest thing to a "Toilet Bowl" west of the Mississippi, and this comes from a lifelong fan and 30 year season ticket holder.

For heaven's sake, Cal is going to Phoenix with a crappier record, and the payout for the Cheez-It Bowl is nearly $1 million higher than the Sun Bowl!  

I sent an email to the Athletics Department begging them to focus intently on relations with bowl committees so we're not in this situation ever again.  With an 8-4 record, we should be playing in either San Diego, Santa Clara, or Las Vegas.  I sent the email to Shaw, the #1 and #2 men in the Athletics Department, Marketing, Communications, and Fan Experience.

Comments or contrary opinions?  Thanks!

"Stanford University Athletics

I write this with a weary heart. It really does pain me to have to complain because I love our team and fully embrace my alma mater.  Yet, I have been a Stanford season ticket holder for about 30 years and for the first time I am frustrated, and chagrined, at our bowl game assignment. 
 
For the third time in 10 years, we are being sent to El Paso, the closest thing to a "Toilet Bowl" this side of the Mississippi.  How is it that Stanford University does not have more clout with the other bowl committees such that we can't get to a bowl in California or even somewhere else in the west? 
 
With all the millions spent on Stanford Athletics, and all the staff running about with titles like "director," might I suggest that the university dedicate a single individual to focus on relations with bowl selection committees?  Someone who could make the relationships, starting tomorrow, that would get us an invitation to bowl games in places like Santa Clara, Las Vegas, San Diego, or Phoenix? 
 
This season was disappointing enough.  We had the nation's premier running back but didn't give him an offensive line worthy of his talents, and we eked out an 8-4 record.  That might be the largest frustration.  But the bowl game in El Paso just adds insult to injury, especially considering the bowl game payouts!   Cal is playing in Phoenix and their payout is nearly $1 million more than the Sun Bowl!  Why isn't Cal playing in El Paso?  They are the ones with the poorer record!
 
Our tailgate group is about 10 alumni and while we would travel just about anywhere to watch the team, we are not going to El Paso.  I'm certain that thousands of other fans feel the same way, and that the stadium will be mostly empty on December 31st except for the military fans wearing Stanford red.
 
Please, please do your best to get us better bowl game assignments.  It would be a sensible financial decision;  the $1 million difference between the Cheez-It and Sun Bowls would more than pay for the new Bowl Relations Director!"

[StanfordMatt]

I was personally hoping that we'd sneak into the Holiday Bowl but I'll gladly settle for the Sun Bowl over some of the alternatives, particularly the Redbox Bowl. The people of El Paso love the Sun Bowl and turn out on game day to support the teams regardless of who is playing. Plus, the city offers culture, margaritas and mariachi singers. What's better than that??? The players I know who have played in the Sun Bowl have enjoyed the experience for the most part. It sure as heck beats playing in front of a dozen spectators in the middle of nowhere Santa Clara. As has been discussed on this board ad nauseum, just because Santa Clara is close to Palo Alto doesn't mean that Stanford fans would be more likely to attend the Redbox Bowl considering the alumni base is so spread out.

[oman]

Dude, El Paso is the place to be. 

You can get an early start on some BETO 2020 swag.



So the day after the bowl committees made all their selections, I got a call from my sugarbowl friend telling me I had a ticket.  So I'm waking up new years day and driving from Dallas to NOLA for the game, given that there weren't anymore cheap flights left, and given that I was told I had to be in the house for New Years Eve.  Wife now doesn't want me to go to NOLA, because I'm meeting up with a "divorced guy, and nothing good ever happens in NOLA".  She suggested instead that I go to the Sunbowl to see my little Cardinal.  Having gone to a couple of Stanford games, she knows we are generally pretty well behaved.

Nope.  As long as the bridge in Baton Rouge isn't stopped up, I'm going to see poor beleaguered Texas try to give mighty SEC a scare.

What I'm trying to say is, if you don't win out, it's a crap shoot.  At least my other team got lucky this bowl season.

[JohnR34231]

I'm certain I'm not the only Stanford fan frustrated that we are headed back to El Paso's Sun Bowl for the third time in 10 years!  To me at least, the Sun Bowl is the closest thing to a "Toilet Bowl" west of the Mississippi, and this comes from a lifelong fan and 30 year season ticket holder.

For heaven's sake, Cal is going to Phoenix with a crappier record, and the payout for the Cheez-It Bowl is nearly $1 million higher than the Sun Bowl!  

I sent an email to the Athletics Department begging them to focus intently on relations with bowl committees so we're not in this situation ever again.  With an 8-4 record, we should be playing in either San Diego, Santa Clara, or Las Vegas.  I sent the email to Shaw, the #1 and #2 men in the Athletics Department, Marketing, Communications, and Fan Experience.

Comments or contrary opinions?  Thanks!

"Stanford University Athletics

I write this with a weary heart. It really does pain me to have to complain because I love our team and fully embrace my alma mater.  Yet, I have been a Stanford season ticket holder for about 30 years and for the first time I am frustrated, and chagrined, at our bowl game assignment. 
 
For the third time in 10 years, we are being sent to El Paso, the closest thing to a "Toilet Bowl" this side of the Mississippi.  How is it that Stanford University does not have more clout with the other bowl committees such that we can't get to a bowl in California or even somewhere else in the west? 
 
With all the millions spent on Stanford Athletics, and all the staff running about with titles like "director," might I suggest that the university dedicate a single individual to focus on relations with bowl selection committees?  Someone who could make the relationships, starting tomorrow, that would get us an invitation to bowl games in places like Santa Clara, Las Vegas, San Diego, or Phoenix? 
 
This season was disappointing enough.  We had the nation's premier running back but didn't give him an offensive line worthy of his talents, and we eked out an 8-4 record.  That might be the largest frustration.  But the bowl game in El Paso just adds insult to injury, especially considering the bowl game payouts!   Cal is playing in Phoenix and their payout is nearly $1 million more than the Sun Bowl!  Why isn't Cal playing in El Paso?  They are the ones with the poorer record!
 
Our tailgate group is about 10 alumni and while we would travel just about anywhere to watch the team, we are not going to El Paso.  I'm certain that thousands of other fans feel the same way, and that the stadium will be mostly empty on December 31st except for the military fans wearing Stanford red.
 
Please, please do your best to get us better bowl game assignments.  It would be a sensible financial decision;  the $1 million difference between the Cheez-It and Sun Bowls would more than pay for the new Bowl Relations Director!"

I thought the Sun Bowl was the older and more prestigious game than the Cheez-It Bowl.
Also, doesn't all the money from the bowl games for the Pac-12 get put into a pot and distributed to the various teams? So I wouldn't think that going to the Cheez-It bowl would necessarily put a lot more money in our pockets than the Sun Bowl.

[ColoradoTree]

As for the bowl payouts, aren't those averaged and paid out to all conference teams, per Pac-12 policy?

[TreesAndBirds]

Wonder what the players prefer.

[JohnR34231]

Wonder what the players prefer.

Who knows? Wouldn't surprise me if some of them, especially those who have been to bowl games before, would just as soon be home with their families for the holidays.

[Austroturf]

As for the bowl payouts, aren't those averaged and paid out to all conference teams, per Pac-12 policy?

Yes, they are.  The conference takes the money and distributes to all members, so the pay-out per bowl does not really matter.  All the bowls with Pac-12 tie-in (excluding the Rose Bowl) range in payout from 3.8M (Alamo) to a bit over 2M (Sun, Holiday, Las Vegas).  The Cheez-it has increased their pay-out to a bit over 3.0M.  Of course, the Rose Bowl is a completely separate world (35M), but that also goes to the conference and gets shared among the members.

It should also be noted that the Sun Bowl had to take us: once the Alamo, Holiday and Redbox have picked, the final three bowls (Sun, Vegas, Phoenix) have to pick in order, which was Stanford, ASU, Cal.  There is no wiggle-room here.  And the Cheez-it was stuck with Cal whether they wanted the Bears or not.  

For better bowls in the future, we just have to win more games and eliminate the discussion.  Our 6-3 conference record put us in a pool of teams that were all within one win of each other (Utah 6-3, Stanford 6-3, Oregon 5-4, ASU 5-4), and that gives the choice to the bowl committees.  The Alamo Bowl wanted WSU and Air-Minshew, the Holiday Bowl wanted Utah and the Redbox wanted Oregon (when we played in the Foster Farms bowl back in 2014, we did not exactly light up the attendance numbers, which the bowl organizers were hoping for).  So the Sun Bowl was (once again) our destiny.  Not a lot to grouse about.  We should have beaten UW and WSU and gone to the Rose Bowl.  But, well, that didn't happen.

[2006alum]

I, personally, would not want anything to do with something called the "Cheez-it Bowl."

And our success has become part of the problem - we don't travel well to begin with, and now we're at the point where anything short of a Rose Bowl and many of our fans stay home. At the margins, the bowls that have a say in the matter don't want a team that can't come close to selling out their seats.

But I totally agree- same bowls over and over only perpetuates the problem. And if the conference wants to maximize overall conference bowl attendance, it should stick the travels-poorly teams (e.g., us) closer to home (e.g., San Diego or Santa Clara).

[Snorlax94]

As for the bowl payouts, aren't those averaged and paid out to all conference teams, per Pac-12 policy?

Yeah this.
I thought the conference distributes the payouts (minus travel expenses). So whether Cal goes to Cheez It and Stanford goes to Sun or vice versa, everybody in the Pac 12 wouls get the same payout.

What makes a difference is whether a team — any team — makes the cfp. Then all 12 teams share in the cfp payout(s). Then, what matters is how many Pac 12 teams make NY6 games (which have of immense proportions payouts also)

[tomh78]

As for the bowl payouts, aren't those averaged and paid out to all conference teams, per Pac-12 policy?

Thank you, I stand corrected.

---

I was personally hoping that we'd sneak into the Holiday Bowl but I'll gladly settle for the Sun Bowl over some of the alternatives, particularly the Redbox Bowl.  As has been discussed on this board ad nauseum, just because Santa Clara is close to Palo Alto doesn't mean that Stanford fans would be more likely to attend the Redbox Bowl considering the alumni base is so spread out.

It is perplexing that we weren't chosen for the Holiday Bowl.  

As for fan attendance, I think it could be higher if there was a concerted campaign by the Athletics Department to get fans out. But, sending a few auto-emails will not do the trick.

Of course, like Pogo once said, as regards fan attendance, "we have met the enemy and he is us."  And our reputation extends to our rivals.  What is the nickname for Stanford Stadium at USC, Cal, Oregon, and UCLA?  The Library.   

Why?  Because we're so quiet.  And we leave early.

---

Dude, El Paso is the place to be. 

You can get an early start on some BETO 2020 swag.

Thanks for the tip. I needed a new doormat, and when it's all chewed up, I can use it in the catbox.

---

It should also be noted that the Sun Bowl had to take us: once the Alamo, Holiday and Redbox have picked, the final three bowls (Sun, Vegas, Phoenix) have to pick in order, which was Stanford, ASU, Cal.  There is no wiggle-room here.  And the Cheez-it was stuck with Cal whether they wanted the Bears or not.  

For better bowls in the future, we just have to win more games and eliminate the discussion.  Our 6-3 conference record put us in a pool of teams that were all within one win of each other (Utah 6-3, Stanford 6-3, Oregon 5-4, ASU 5-4), and that gives the choice to the bowl committees.  The Alamo Bowl wanted WSU and Air-Minshew, the Holiday Bowl wanted Utah and the Redbox wanted Oregon (when we played in the Foster Farms bowl back in 2014, we did not exactly light up the attendance numbers, which the bowl organizers were hoping for).  So the Sun Bowl was (once again) our destiny.  Not a lot to grouse about.  We should have beaten UW and WSU and gone to the Rose Bowl.  But, well, that didn't happen.

Nicely put.  So to ask the obvious question -- two Pac-12 teams cannot play in the same bowl game, correct?  That's why our chance of getting in to either the Alamo or Holiday Bowls was close to zero?

Still, with a four loss season, I care more about the venue than the "prestige" of the bowl based on some unknown ranking.  Meaning, I'd rather we were in Las Vegas. Phoenix, San Diego, or Santa Clara.  I'd even go to Albuquerque over El Paso, if there was a bowl game in Albuquerque.

Also, we should have enough clout that the Holiday or Redbox Bowls want us, not any other team, whenever we end the season 8-4.  That might mean better relationships with the bowl committees.  Or a better effort on the part of the Athletic Department to get fans out.

[Phogge]

A guy I’ve known for a long time who works for the Redbox people and who works in other press boxes told me that the bowl wanted nothing to do with Stanford.

[BostonCard]

A guy I’ve known for a long time who works for the Redbox people and who works in other press boxes told me that the bowl wanted nothing to do with Stanford.

Yes the Foster Farms/Redbox organizer's disappointment with our 2014 appearance at their bowl has been well documented.  What is unclear is why; I believe CTCard posted information suggesting attendance at that bowl was higher for the Stanford-Maryland game than for games before or after.  I'm not sure if that has to do with inflated expectations of the local school going to the bowl, or if the AD did something to piss them off.

BC

[82lsju]

A guy I’ve known for a long time who works for the Redbox people and who works in other press boxes told me that the bowl wanted nothing to do with Stanford.

Yes the Foster Farms/Redbox organizer's disappointment with our 2014 appearance at their bowl has been well documented.  What is unclear is why; I believe CTCard posted information suggesting attendance at that bowl was higher for the Stanford-Maryland game than for games before or after.  I'm not sure if that has to do with inflated expectations of the local school going to the bowl, or if the AD did something to piss them off.

BC

attendance the last five years (likely tickets sold)

2013    34,136
2014    34,780
2015    33,527
2016    27,608
2017    28,436

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redbox_Bowl

I would guess we are also less attractive as a fair number of the Stanford attendees in 2014 probably lived locally so no bump in hotel or other tourism related spending

[CTcard]

For heaven's sake, Cal is going to Phoenix with a crappier record, and the payout for the Cheez-It Bowl is nearly $1 million higher than the Sun Bowl!  

Others have noted that the pay out for the particular bowl a Pac 12 team goes to doesn't really matter.
I cannot find confirmation of the $1+ million higher number.
There is a note in this thread that the Cheez-It bowl increased its payout to $3+ million. That was reported with some confidence so I suspect it's correct. What I can find in a quick web search is a lower number.
Cheez-it $1,037,118
Sun       $3,447,568
http://www.collegefootballpoll.com/bowl-schedule/2018/

I sent an email to the Athletics Department begging them to focus intently on relations with bowl committees so we're not in this situation ever again.  With an 8-4 record, we should be playing in either San Diego, Santa Clara, or Las Vegas.

I was personally hoping that we'd sneak into the Holiday Bowl but I'll gladly settle for the Sun Bowl over some of the alternatives, particularly the Redbox Bowl.  As has been discussed on this board ad nauseum, just because Santa Clara is close to Palo Alto doesn't mean that Stanford fans would be more likely to attend the Redbox Bowl considering the alumni base is so spread out.

It is perplexing that we weren't chosen for the Holiday Bowl. 

I was hoping we'd sneak into the Holiday Bowl as well, but there was essentially zero chance once WSU didn't make it into the NY6.
We did have the same conference record as Utah, but a worse overall record and they get deference for making the conference championship.

A guy I’ve known for a long time who works for the Redbox people and who works in other press boxes told me that the bowl wanted nothing to do with Stanford.

Yes the Foster Farms/Redbox organizer's disappointment with our 2014 appearance at their bowl has been well documented.  What is unclear is why; I believe CTCard posted information suggesting attendance at that bowl was higher for the Stanford-Maryland game than for games before or after.  I'm not sure if that has to do with inflated expectations of the local school going to the bowl, or if the AD did something to piss them off.

Yes, the somewhat surprising result of the bowl shuffle (the only surprising element for the Pac) is Oregon to the Redbox Bowl and Stanford to the Sun (nominally in reversed order).
There seems to be a thing between Stanford and that bowl. [I did post the attendance, the year Stanford was there was the highest attendance for several years on either side.]
I have heard there were some set of hard feelings on both sides that year (perhaps based upon Stanford folks finding the "trip" uninspiring). Two years later when the possibility arose again, Stanford openly lobbied to go to the Sun Bowl instead, which I understand did not go over well with the folks in Santa Clara. I didn't hear anything particular about jockeying this year but at this point it would appear that neither Stanford nor the chicken/redbox people want much to do with each other - Stanford likely happier going to El Paso.

Perhaps of note, among the many minor bowls, the Sun Bowl seems to have the best reputation of treating the teams well, and having community involvement with the game. Of course fan bases tend to hate the idea of going to El Paso.

I would note that if you look at the attendance of bowl games Stanford has gone to lately, plus and minus a few years, there is no evidence that there is any attendance hit when Stanford is in the game versus anyone else. The attendance at all but the most major bowls has been declining - and has most always been terrible. For that matter, Div. 1 football attendance broadly has been declining - though it looks to me as less steeply and more recently than the bowl games. Financially, bowl games are a pure television play - essentially ESPN's holiday content plan.

---

I would guess we are also less attractive as a fair number of the Stanford attendees in 2014 probably lived locally so no bump in hotel or other tourism related spending

Not much tourism spending for any team coming to a minor bowl in Santa Clara - certainly compared to what is already in the area.
Any western team has lots of alums in the area.
No tourism spending goes to the organizers of the bowl.

I don't know for sure, but I strongly suspect it is a personal relationship thing along with a dash of Stanford wanting to give the kids a trip.

[Stymie]

This is one of the most bizzare posts I have seen in my years on this forum--trolling for the largest amount of money we can earn at whatever toilet bowl will take us.  Unless we are good enough to play a seriously good team, we are doomed to go down the swanee--monetarially and opponent quality--for 9-10 years of every decade.  I would pay big money if we could beg our way to a bowl encounter in a year like this year against a Texas A&M or Michigan, or Florida, but they will never want to play us because they do not care and we do not have the dosh to bribe our way into their sphere.  We are midgets in the world of CFB and will always be there as long as Larry Scott hangs in there with his idiocy and massive contract.

IMVNHO......

[BostonCard]

Also, Utah beat us head-to-head (of course, we did the same to Oregon).

For me, the ranking is as follows:

Rose Bowl - Grandady of them all, I can go watch, and always a great time
Playoffs - Yes, the playoffs are a greater accomplishment than the Rose Bowl (except when the playoffs are at the Rose Bowl), but I still would rather go to the Rose Bowl than the playoffs.
Other NY6 bowls
[gap]
Holliday - Less prestigious than the Alamo, but we've never been, and I have family in the area, and would go.  Like others, I was hoping we would sneak in, but alas, it was not meant to be.
Alamo - Pretty good second tier bowl
[gap]
Chicken/DVD - It's local so I can go
[gap]
All other bowls are pretty much indistinguishable at this point.

BC

[pefloresjr]

My wife and I are staying in New Mexico since it feels like we have kind of played-out El Paso,.  It's going to be really cold in Santa Fe and Albuquerque but it's only 4 hours to El Paso from there.  There are a few cool small towns within about an hour of El Paso.  And there are a few spots we will revisit in El Paso.  Have to go to H&H Car Wash for some old school Mexican food like my abuela made and to fight Garvin for a spot at the counter.  I get the disappointment of the same hard-to-get-to locale in 10 years but we think we will still have a really good time.  Also, Trenton Irwin called after the season and left us a highly "personal" message inviting us to the Sun Bowl.  That was kind of cool.  I'm sure he will toss me the ball if he gets healthy and scores a touchdown!  

Cheers,
Pete F.

[qwerty49]

IIRC it wasn't too long ago that the U$C players were dissing the Sun Bowl and El Paso pretty openly.  I'm sure that got a lot of flack on this board.

[lex24]

Easy solution. Go 5-7. Or worse. Worked very well for many years. No concern about whether it is worthy of ones appearance.