[terry]

[size=1em]Sports Illustrated All America team (link):

First team -- Josh Garnett and Christian McCaffrey (as an all purpose player).  Both of them were unanimous choices -- two of the four unanimous selections.

Second team -- Blake Martinez

Honorable mention -- Austin Hooper, Kyle Murphy, Christian McCaffrey (as a running back).


CBS Sports All America team (link):

First team -- Josh Garnett and Christian McCaffrey (as an all purpose player). McCaffrey was the only unanimous selection.

Second team -- Kyle Murphy and Christian McCaffrey (as a running back).


As previously posted on this board, the USA Today All America team includes (link):

First team -- Josh Garnett and Christian McCaffrey (as a running back)

Second team -- Blake Martinez[/size]

[terry]

[size=1em]Sports Illustrated All America team (link):

First team -- Josh Garnett and Christian McCaffrey (as an all purpose player).  Both of them were unanimous choices -- two of the four unanimous selections.

Second team -- Blake Martinez

Honorable mention -- Austin Hooper, Kyle Murphy, Christian McCaffrey (as a running back).


CBS Sports All America team (link):

First team -- Josh Garnett and Christian McCaffrey (as an all purpose player). McCaffrey was the only unanimous selection.

Second team -- Kyle Murphy and Christian McCaffrey (as a running back).


As previously posted on this board, the USA Today All America team includes (link):

First team -- Josh Garnett and Christian McCaffrey (as a running back)

Second team -- Blake Martinez[/size]

[washingtonismoney]

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but none of these are official A-A teams for NCAA purposes?

[washingtonismoney]

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but none of these are official A-A teams for NCAA purposes?

[terry]

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but none of these are official A-A teams for NCAA purposes?

The five All America teams recognized by the NCAA for purposes of determining unanimous All Americans and consensus All Americans are:

Sporting News
Football Writers Association of America (FWAA)
Walter Camp Foundation
American Football Coaches Association (AFCA)
Associated Press

[terry]

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but none of these are official A-A teams for NCAA purposes?

The five All America teams recognized by the NCAA for purposes of determining unanimous All Americans and consensus All Americans are:

Sporting News
Football Writers Association of America (FWAA)
Walter Camp Foundation
American Football Coaches Association (AFCA)
Associated Press

[Rally]

I think we're going to have two Consensus.  Anyone disagree? :).

[Rally]

I think we're going to have two Consensus.  Anyone disagree? :).

[stupac2]

I think we're going to have two Consensus.  Anyone disagree? :).

Depends on whether those all have an all-purpose/return slot. McCaffrey won't be a consensus RB.

[stupac2]

I think we're going to have two Consensus.  Anyone disagree? :).

Depends on whether those all have an all-purpose/return slot. McCaffrey won't be a consensus RB.

[82lsju]

[quote author=ferrari link=topic=14005.msg147340#msg147340 date=1449786607]I think we're going to have two Consensus.  Anyone disagree? :).

Depends on whether those all have an all-purpose/return slot. McCaffrey won't be a consensus RB.
[/quote]

most usually have either an "all purpose" or "kick returner"

[82lsju]

[quote author=ferrari link=topic=14005.msg147340#msg147340 date=1449786607]I think we're going to have two Consensus.  Anyone disagree? :).

Depends on whether those all have an all-purpose/return slot. McCaffrey won't be a consensus RB.
[/quote]

most usually have either an "all purpose" or "kick returner"

[Rally]

[quote author=ferrari link=topic=14005.msg147340#msg147340 date=1449786607]I think we're going to have two Consensus.  Anyone disagree? :).

Depends on whether those all have an all-purpose/return slot. McCaffrey won't be a consensus RB.
[/quote]

Well, based on last year's team it looks like it can happen.  These were each named all purpose on one team or another.  Lockett listed as consensus.

Edit
Mario Alford, West Virginia (FWAA)
Kaelin Clay, Utah (TSN, CBS)
Tyler Lockett, Kansas State -- CONSENSUS -- (AFCA, FWAA, CBS, ESPN, Scout, SI)
Marcus Murphy, Missouri (Scout)
J. J. Nelson, UAB (WCFF, TSN, USAT, CBS, SI)
Shaq Thompson, Washington (AP, Scout)

[Rally]

[quote author=ferrari link=topic=14005.msg147340#msg147340 date=1449786607]I think we're going to have two Consensus.  Anyone disagree? :).

Depends on whether those all have an all-purpose/return slot. McCaffrey won't be a consensus RB.
[/quote]

Well, based on last year's team it looks like it can happen.  These were each named all purpose on one team or another.  Lockett listed as consensus.

Edit
Mario Alford, West Virginia (FWAA)
Kaelin Clay, Utah (TSN, CBS)
Tyler Lockett, Kansas State -- CONSENSUS -- (AFCA, FWAA, CBS, ESPN, Scout, SI)
Marcus Murphy, Missouri (Scout)
J. J. Nelson, UAB (WCFF, TSN, USAT, CBS, SI)
Shaq Thompson, Washington (AP, Scout)

[ColoradoTree]

[quote author=ferrari link=topic=14005.msg147340#msg147340 date=1449786607]I think we're going to have two Consensus.  Anyone disagree? :).

Depends on whether those all have an all-purpose/return slot. McCaffrey won't be a consensus RB.
[/quote]

Even when there could be two RB slots on most of those teams?  (The SN, Walter Camp, FWAA, and AP all had two RBs on their first teams last year, and the AFCA had 3.)  I agree that Henry will be one of those, but do you think Fournette or Cook will beat out McCaffrey for the other first team spot?  That would be very disappointing. 

[ColoradoTree]

[quote author=ferrari link=topic=14005.msg147340#msg147340 date=1449786607]I think we're going to have two Consensus.  Anyone disagree? :).

Depends on whether those all have an all-purpose/return slot. McCaffrey won't be a consensus RB.
[/quote]

Even when there could be two RB slots on most of those teams?  (The SN, Walter Camp, FWAA, and AP all had two RBs on their first teams last year, and the AFCA had 3.)  I agree that Henry will be one of those, but do you think Fournette or Cook will beat out McCaffrey for the other first team spot?  That would be very disappointing. 

[stupac2]

Even when there could be two RB slots on most of those teams?  (The SN, Walter Camp, FWAA, and AP all had two RBs on their first teams last year, and the AFCA had 3.)  I agree that Henry will be one of those, but do you think Fournette or Cook will beat out McCaffrey for the other first team spot?  That would be very disappointing.

I think even with 2 slots there's basically no chance McCaffrey gets on every single ballot. There are too many good RBs this year and McCaffrey isn't actually amazingly good at the "taking the ball from the quarterback on a handoff" part of the RB equation, which I think is really important here. If you're looking at the best RBs in college football, they're Cook, Elliot, and Fournette. (Incidentally, this is why I am so annoyed at Henry's involvement with the Voldemort, even as a pure running back he's not even close to the best this year.)

[stupac2]

Even when there could be two RB slots on most of those teams?  (The SN, Walter Camp, FWAA, and AP all had two RBs on their first teams last year, and the AFCA had 3.)  I agree that Henry will be one of those, but do you think Fournette or Cook will beat out McCaffrey for the other first team spot?  That would be very disappointing.

I think even with 2 slots there's basically no chance McCaffrey gets on every single ballot. There are too many good RBs this year and McCaffrey isn't actually amazingly good at the "taking the ball from the quarterback on a handoff" part of the RB equation, which I think is really important here. If you're looking at the best RBs in college football, they're Cook, Elliot, and Fournette. (Incidentally, this is why I am so annoyed at Henry's involvement with the Voldemort, even as a pure running back he's not even close to the best this year.)

[terry]

There are too many good RBs this year and McCaffrey isn't actually amazingly good at the "taking the ball from the quarterback on a handoff" part of the RB equation, which I think is really important here.

Running backs catch passes too. McCaffrey has more receiving yards than Henry, Fournette, and Cook put together. His ability as a receiver is part of his ability as a running back.

[terry]

There are too many good RBs this year and McCaffrey isn't actually amazingly good at the "taking the ball from the quarterback on a handoff" part of the RB equation, which I think is really important here.

Running backs catch passes too. McCaffrey has more receiving yards than Henry, Fournette, and Cook put together. His ability as a receiver is part of his ability as a running back.

[stupac2]

Running backs catch passes too. McCaffrey has more receiving yards than Henry, Fournette, and Cook put together. His ability as a receiver is part of his ability as a running back.

Right, but that's hard to weigh in and I don't think the people who do the voting here will look at it that closely.

Remember, I'm not saying that *I* think he's not an all-american RB, I'm saying that there's very little chance that a majority of the voters for all 5 of those teams will. Which doesn't seem like something that should be particularly controversial since he hasn't been unanimous on the non-official ones either.

[stupac2]

Running backs catch passes too. McCaffrey has more receiving yards than Henry, Fournette, and Cook put together. His ability as a receiver is part of his ability as a running back.

Right, but that's hard to weigh in and I don't think the people who do the voting here will look at it that closely.

Remember, I'm not saying that *I* think he's not an all-american RB, I'm saying that there's very little chance that a majority of the voters for all 5 of those teams will. Which doesn't seem like something that should be particularly controversial since he hasn't been unanimous on the non-official ones either.

[amartinsu13]

Walter Camp All-American List announced on the ESPN Awards show. 

Henry and Fournette represented the RBs.  McC not on the team. 

[amartinsu13]

Walter Camp All-American List announced on the ESPN Awards show. 

Henry and Fournette represented the RBs.  McC not on the team. 

[Mick]

[quote author=terry link=topic=14005.msg147367#msg147367 date=1449793233]Running backs catch passes too. McCaffrey has more receiving yards than Henry, Fournette, and Cook put together. His ability as a receiver is part of his ability as a running back.

Right, but that's hard to weigh in and I don't think the people who do the voting here will look at it that closely.

Remember, I'm not saying that *I* think he's not an all-american RB, I'm saying that there's very little chance that a majority of the voters for all 5 of those teams will. Which doesn't seem like something that should be particularly controversial since he hasn't been unanimous on the non-official ones either.
[/quote]


Why are receiving yards hard to weigh in?  They're valuable in the NCAA and they're valuable in the NFL.  Emmitt Smith caught 515 passes, one year caught67.  Marcus Allen caught 587 despite Davis sitting on him, including three years ina row of 60 or more.  Payton caught 492.  Barry Sanders caught 352, even Franco harris caught 309 from spray-armed Terry Bradshaw.  Herschel, 512.  Adrian peterson, 236.  Even John Riggins caught 250, with 36 in his rookie year.

Don't kid a kidder.  The ability catch the damn ball is important for receivers, tight ends and RUNNING BACKS.

[Mick]

[quote author=terry link=topic=14005.msg147367#msg147367 date=1449793233]Running backs catch passes too. McCaffrey has more receiving yards than Henry, Fournette, and Cook put together. His ability as a receiver is part of his ability as a running back.

Right, but that's hard to weigh in and I don't think the people who do the voting here will look at it that closely.

Remember, I'm not saying that *I* think he's not an all-american RB, I'm saying that there's very little chance that a majority of the voters for all 5 of those teams will. Which doesn't seem like something that should be particularly controversial since he hasn't been unanimous on the non-official ones either.
[/quote]


Why are receiving yards hard to weigh in?  They're valuable in the NCAA and they're valuable in the NFL.  Emmitt Smith caught 515 passes, one year caught67.  Marcus Allen caught 587 despite Davis sitting on him, including three years ina row of 60 or more.  Payton caught 492.  Barry Sanders caught 352, even Franco harris caught 309 from spray-armed Terry Bradshaw.  Herschel, 512.  Adrian peterson, 236.  Even John Riggins caught 250, with 36 in his rookie year.

Don't kid a kidder.  The ability catch the damn ball is important for receivers, tight ends and RUNNING BACKS.

[stupac2]

Why are receiving yards hard to weigh in?  They're valuable in the NCAA and they're valuable in the NFL.  Emmitt Smith caught 515 passes, one year caught67.  Marcus Allen caught 587 despite Davis sitting on him, including three years ina row of 60 or more.  Payton caught 492.  Barry Sanders caught 352, even Franco harris caught 309 from spray-armed Terry Bradshaw.  Herschel, 512.  Adrian peterson, 236.  Even John Riggins caught 250, with 36 in his rookie year.

Don't kid a kidder.  The ability catch the damn ball is important for receivers, tight ends and RUNNING BACKS.

Right, but there are lots of different ways to catch the ball. All running is pretty much the same (yeah there's plenty of nuance and things like sweeps but it's still mostly the same). A RB can run wheel routes, can split out wide, can be a safety valve in the flat or up the middle, they can do a lot of different things and it's hard to say how you should factor that in to their running stats and then compare it to a RB who wasn't asked to do those things.

And, again, remember that I AM NOT SAYING THAT MCCAFFREY IS THE WORSE RB. I do not believe that. That is not something I believe. That is a thought whose presence in my mind is hypothetical and fleeting. Have I been clear enough on this? I want to make sure that I have been clear enough about this because apparently I haven't been.

What I am saying is that the lazy pundits/voters who just look up stats will see the Henry had more rushing yards and that Cook/Elliot/Fournette had more yards per carry and vote for them (it doesn't help that they will think (AND AGAIN I DO NOT THINK THIS, THIS IS WHAT LAZY PEOPLE WHO DON'T ACTUALLY LOOK AT NUMBERS WILL THINK) that McCaffrey faced soft, weak, Pac-12 wimpy defenses). That's what I am saying.

[stupac2]

Why are receiving yards hard to weigh in?  They're valuable in the NCAA and they're valuable in the NFL.  Emmitt Smith caught 515 passes, one year caught67.  Marcus Allen caught 587 despite Davis sitting on him, including three years ina row of 60 or more.  Payton caught 492.  Barry Sanders caught 352, even Franco harris caught 309 from spray-armed Terry Bradshaw.  Herschel, 512.  Adrian peterson, 236.  Even John Riggins caught 250, with 36 in his rookie year.

Don't kid a kidder.  The ability catch the damn ball is important for receivers, tight ends and RUNNING BACKS.

Right, but there are lots of different ways to catch the ball. All running is pretty much the same (yeah there's plenty of nuance and things like sweeps but it's still mostly the same). A RB can run wheel routes, can split out wide, can be a safety valve in the flat or up the middle, they can do a lot of different things and it's hard to say how you should factor that in to their running stats and then compare it to a RB who wasn't asked to do those things.

And, again, remember that I AM NOT SAYING THAT MCCAFFREY IS THE WORSE RB. I do not believe that. That is not something I believe. That is a thought whose presence in my mind is hypothetical and fleeting. Have I been clear enough on this? I want to make sure that I have been clear enough about this because apparently I haven't been.

What I am saying is that the lazy pundits/voters who just look up stats will see the Henry had more rushing yards and that Cook/Elliot/Fournette had more yards per carry and vote for them (it doesn't help that they will think (AND AGAIN I DO NOT THINK THIS, THIS IS WHAT LAZY PEOPLE WHO DON'T ACTUALLY LOOK AT NUMBERS WILL THINK) that McCaffrey faced soft, weak, Pac-12 wimpy defenses). That's what I am saying.

[Rally]

[quote author=Mick link=topic=14005.msg147466#msg147466 date=1449848941]Why are receiving yards hard to weigh in?  They're valuable in the NCAA and they're valuable in the NFL.  Emmitt Smith caught 515 passes, one year caught67.  Marcus Allen caught 587 despite Davis sitting on him, including three years ina row of 60 or more.  Payton caught 492.  Barry Sanders caught 352, even Franco harris caught 309 from spray-armed Terry Bradshaw.  Herschel, 512.  Adrian peterson, 236.  Even John Riggins caught 250, with 36 in his rookie year.

Don't kid a kidder.  The ability catch the damn ball is important for receivers, tight ends and RUNNING BACKS.

Right, but there are lots of different ways to catch the ball. All running is pretty much the same (yeah there's plenty of nuance and things like sweeps but it's still mostly the same). A RB can run wheel routes, can split out wide, can be a safety valve in the flat or up the middle, they can do a lot of different things and it's hard to say how you should factor that in to their running stats and then compare it to a RB who wasn't asked to do those things.

And, again, remember that I AM NOT SAYING THAT MCCAFFREY IS THE WORSE RB. I do not believe that. That is not something I believe. That is a thought whose presence in my mind is hypothetical and fleeting. Have I been clear enough on this? I want to make sure that I have been clear enough about this because apparently I haven't been.

What I am saying is that the lazy pundits/voters who just look up stats will see the Henry had more rushing yards and that Cook/Elliot/Fournette had more yards per carry and vote for them (it doesn't help that they will think (AND AGAIN I DO NOT THINK THIS, THIS IS WHAT LAZY PEOPLE WHO DON'T ACTUALLY LOOK AT NUMBERS WILL THINK) that McCaffrey faced soft, weak, Pac-12 wimpy defenses). That's what I am saying.
[/quote]

So, you think he sucks, right?

[Rally]

[quote author=Mick link=topic=14005.msg147466#msg147466 date=1449848941]Why are receiving yards hard to weigh in?  They're valuable in the NCAA and they're valuable in the NFL.  Emmitt Smith caught 515 passes, one year caught67.  Marcus Allen caught 587 despite Davis sitting on him, including three years ina row of 60 or more.  Payton caught 492.  Barry Sanders caught 352, even Franco harris caught 309 from spray-armed Terry Bradshaw.  Herschel, 512.  Adrian peterson, 236.  Even John Riggins caught 250, with 36 in his rookie year.

Don't kid a kidder.  The ability catch the damn ball is important for receivers, tight ends and RUNNING BACKS.

Right, but there are lots of different ways to catch the ball. All running is pretty much the same (yeah there's plenty of nuance and things like sweeps but it's still mostly the same). A RB can run wheel routes, can split out wide, can be a safety valve in the flat or up the middle, they can do a lot of different things and it's hard to say how you should factor that in to their running stats and then compare it to a RB who wasn't asked to do those things.

And, again, remember that I AM NOT SAYING THAT MCCAFFREY IS THE WORSE RB. I do not believe that. That is not something I believe. That is a thought whose presence in my mind is hypothetical and fleeting. Have I been clear enough on this? I want to make sure that I have been clear enough about this because apparently I haven't been.

What I am saying is that the lazy pundits/voters who just look up stats will see the Henry had more rushing yards and that Cook/Elliot/Fournette had more yards per carry and vote for them (it doesn't help that they will think (AND AGAIN I DO NOT THINK THIS, THIS IS WHAT LAZY PEOPLE WHO DON'T ACTUALLY LOOK AT NUMBERS WILL THINK) that McCaffrey faced soft, weak, Pac-12 wimpy defenses). That's what I am saying.
[/quote]

So, you think he sucks, right?

[CornFed]

Nice, ferrari.  You are trying to make stupac2's head explode.

But stupac, I get the lazy voter part.  But do you really presume that they are so lazy that they do not even look up receiving yards?  Or are you saying that they are so stupid that they think they are giving an award for best rusher, not receiver, so they just ignore the receptions?  It stuns me to think that anyone would look at two running backs, both with X number of yards carrying the ball, playing against comparable defenses alongside comparably talented teammates, but one of the running backs has Y numbers of yards receiving and the other has zero.  Is there anyone on God's green earth that would have difficulty assessing which should get the award?

If McCaffery were so much of a hybrid that it was a little difficult to sort out whether he is a receiver or a runner, and if his rushing statistics were not even close to the others, I could see how people might have trouble.  The thing is, his rushing stats are very close (in some respects better) than the others PLUS he has all this pass reception yardage that they really don't have.  That cannot be that difficult to sort out, can it?  I mean for those voters.  Because I know you get it.  We're just speculating about the voters, right?  I mean, you, yourself, are absolutely convinced that McCaffery is all that and a box of candy.  I want to emphasize that I get that.  We are talking about those other guys.  The voters.  And you're not a voter anyway, so obviously, we're not talking about how you look at the issue.

[CornFed]

Nice, ferrari.  You are trying to make stupac2's head explode.

But stupac, I get the lazy voter part.  But do you really presume that they are so lazy that they do not even look up receiving yards?  Or are you saying that they are so stupid that they think they are giving an award for best rusher, not receiver, so they just ignore the receptions?  It stuns me to think that anyone would look at two running backs, both with X number of yards carrying the ball, playing against comparable defenses alongside comparably talented teammates, but one of the running backs has Y numbers of yards receiving and the other has zero.  Is there anyone on God's green earth that would have difficulty assessing which should get the award?

If McCaffery were so much of a hybrid that it was a little difficult to sort out whether he is a receiver or a runner, and if his rushing statistics were not even close to the others, I could see how people might have trouble.  The thing is, his rushing stats are very close (in some respects better) than the others PLUS he has all this pass reception yardage that they really don't have.  That cannot be that difficult to sort out, can it?  I mean for those voters.  Because I know you get it.  We're just speculating about the voters, right?  I mean, you, yourself, are absolutely convinced that McCaffery is all that and a box of candy.  I want to emphasize that I get that.  We are talking about those other guys.  The voters.  And you're not a voter anyway, so obviously, we're not talking about how you look at the issue.

[stupac2]

But do you really presume that they are so lazy that they do not even look up receiving yards?

Or something similar. The funny thing is that, according to amartinsu13, I've already been proven to be correct, so I'm really not sure why anyone takes issue with this.

[stupac2]

But do you really presume that they are so lazy that they do not even look up receiving yards?

Or something similar. The funny thing is that, according to amartinsu13, I've already been proven to be correct, so I'm really not sure why anyone takes issue with this.

[BostonCard]

Here's Bruce Feldman's:

http://www.foxsports.com/college-footbal...man-121115

McCaffrey 1st team RB, Garnett also on the first team.  Martinez and Ukropina on the second team.

McCaffrey: "The nation's most versatile weapon, McCaffrey broke Barry Sanders' NCAA record for most all-purpose yards."
Garnett: "In 13 games Garnett had 104 pancakes."
Martinez: "Great run stopper who piled up 132 tackles -- €”about 70 more than anyone else at Stanford"
Ukropina: "The most improved kicker in the country, was 17-of-19 including the game-winner on the last second vs. Notre Dame"

BC

[BostonCard]

Here's Bruce Feldman's:

http://www.foxsports.com/college-footbal...man-121115

McCaffrey 1st team RB, Garnett also on the first team.  Martinez and Ukropina on the second team.

McCaffrey: "The nation's most versatile weapon, McCaffrey broke Barry Sanders' NCAA record for most all-purpose yards."
Garnett: "In 13 games Garnett had 104 pancakes."
Martinez: "Great run stopper who piled up 132 tackles -- €”about 70 more than anyone else at Stanford"
Ukropina: "The most improved kicker in the country, was 17-of-19 including the game-winner on the last second vs. Notre Dame"

BC

[washingtonismoney]

https://twitter.com/treeSIDjorge/status/...5224012800

https://twitter.com/m__petes/status/676116575519379460

[washingtonismoney]

https://twitter.com/treeSIDjorge/status/...5224012800

https://twitter.com/m__petes/status/676116575519379460

[Rally]

Wilner on selection committee.

[Rally]

Wilner on selection committee.