[Class_of_75]

Interesting tidbit from the AP story on this week's top 25 poll.

CHANGING OF THE GUARD: For the second straight week, Duke (13th), Tennessee (14th) and Stanford (15th) were outside the top 10. Last week marked the first time since the final poll of the 1985-86 season that none of those three women's basketball powers were among the first 10 teams in the poll. That year Tennessee was ranked 15th in the last Top 25. The next season the Lady Vols started at No. 3 to begin the streak.

http://news.yahoo.com/miami-enters-women...--spt.html

[Class_of_75]

Interesting tidbit from the AP story on this week's top 25 poll.

CHANGING OF THE GUARD: For the second straight week, Duke (13th), Tennessee (14th) and Stanford (15th) were outside the top 10. Last week marked the first time since the final poll of the 1985-86 season that none of those three women's basketball powers were among the first 10 teams in the poll. That year Tennessee was ranked 15th in the last Top 25. The next season the Lady Vols started at No. 3 to begin the streak.

http://news.yahoo.com/miami-enters-women...--spt.html

[chimera]

Tennessee has not been the Tennessee of old since their championship in 2008.  Duke has underperformed their talent level for McCallie's whole time there.  We are in a strange spot.  We have a young team that could coalesce into something very good this year or more probably next next year.  That is the optimistic scenario.  But even very good probably would not be up to the standards we enjoyed during the Final Four string. 

We could also be just one of the pack of pretty good teams without much hope of a Final Four for the foreseeable future, the sort of team that wins a lot but can't beat the best teams consistently and occasionally loses to teams that are not that good.  Given the talent level on the team I think the pessimistic take is the more likely.  I see some young players who could turn out to be very good.  I don't see a superstar in waiting.  I don't see the sort of sharp team play that can take a good line-up and make them better than the sum of their parts. 

I see us relying much too much on our guards, and our guards, while good, are not better than the guards most top teams have.  We don't have consistent scoring from the 3 or 4 positions.  We can't win with almost zero production from the 4 spot and much better rebounding from the entire team.  We reply too much on threes and other jump shots so when we are cold, we are in trouble.  I feel reasonably ok about the Texas game except for the rebounding and the sloppy turnovers at the end.  We are not bad.  We are pretty good, all things considered.  But we are also not anywhere close to what we were 4 or 5 years ago, and I can't see that changing any time soon. 

[chimera]

Tennessee has not been the Tennessee of old since their championship in 2008.  Duke has underperformed their talent level for McCallie's whole time there.  We are in a strange spot.  We have a young team that could coalesce into something very good this year or more probably next next year.  That is the optimistic scenario.  But even very good probably would not be up to the standards we enjoyed during the Final Four string. 

We could also be just one of the pack of pretty good teams without much hope of a Final Four for the foreseeable future, the sort of team that wins a lot but can't beat the best teams consistently and occasionally loses to teams that are not that good.  Given the talent level on the team I think the pessimistic take is the more likely.  I see some young players who could turn out to be very good.  I don't see a superstar in waiting.  I don't see the sort of sharp team play that can take a good line-up and make them better than the sum of their parts. 

I see us relying much too much on our guards, and our guards, while good, are not better than the guards most top teams have.  We don't have consistent scoring from the 3 or 4 positions.  We can't win with almost zero production from the 4 spot and much better rebounding from the entire team.  We reply too much on threes and other jump shots so when we are cold, we are in trouble.  I feel reasonably ok about the Texas game except for the rebounding and the sloppy turnovers at the end.  We are not bad.  We are pretty good, all things considered.  But we are also not anywhere close to what we were 4 or 5 years ago, and I can't see that changing any time soon. 

[TheFarm07]

We could also be just one of the pack of pretty good teams without much hope of a Final Four for the foreseeable future, the sort of team that wins a lot but can't beat the best teams consistently and occasionally loses to teams that are not that good.  Given the talent level on the team I think the pessimistic take is the more likely.  I see some young players who could turn out to be very good.  I don't see a superstar in waiting.  I don't see the sort of sharp team play that can take a good line-up and make them better than the sum of their parts. 

I see us relying much too much on our guards, and our guards, while good, are not better than the guards most top teams have.  We don't have consistent scoring from the 3 or 4 positions.  We can't win with almost zero production from the 4 spot and much better rebounding from the entire team.  We reply too much on threes and other jump shots so when we are cold, we are in trouble.  I feel reasonably ok about the Texas game except for the rebounding and the sloppy turnovers at the end.  We are not bad.  We are pretty good, all things considered.  But we are also not anywhere close to what we were 4 or 5 years ago, and I can't see that changing any time soon.

Unfortunately, I would have to agree with you.  Tara's coaching prowess can take us only so far.  We will need elite talent to be a top contender, not just challenging UConn, but beating N.D., Maryland and South Carolina who are emerging as the top threats to the Huskies. 

As I have repeated ad nauseum on this forum before, I thought the momentum from our run of success from 2008-2014 would be translated onto the recruiting trail and there would be more young and elite high school girls' basketball players inspired to do better in the classroom so they could play for us.  For a while there, especially in '09 and '10, we were considered the top challenger to UConn.

UConn and lately N.D. (not withstanding their rash of recent injuries) seem to reload every year with top players lately.  I guess it will depend on luck if a Top-3 or Top-5 recruit the next few years will have the academic credentials and aspirations to play on the Farm and become our next superstar.  Relying on luck is a little sad, though, considering the success of our program under Tara that only a handful of other schools can match, but I guess that's life.

[TheFarm07]

We could also be just one of the pack of pretty good teams without much hope of a Final Four for the foreseeable future, the sort of team that wins a lot but can't beat the best teams consistently and occasionally loses to teams that are not that good.  Given the talent level on the team I think the pessimistic take is the more likely.  I see some young players who could turn out to be very good.  I don't see a superstar in waiting.  I don't see the sort of sharp team play that can take a good line-up and make them better than the sum of their parts. 

I see us relying much too much on our guards, and our guards, while good, are not better than the guards most top teams have.  We don't have consistent scoring from the 3 or 4 positions.  We can't win with almost zero production from the 4 spot and much better rebounding from the entire team.  We reply too much on threes and other jump shots so when we are cold, we are in trouble.  I feel reasonably ok about the Texas game except for the rebounding and the sloppy turnovers at the end.  We are not bad.  We are pretty good, all things considered.  But we are also not anywhere close to what we were 4 or 5 years ago, and I can't see that changing any time soon.

Unfortunately, I would have to agree with you.  Tara's coaching prowess can take us only so far.  We will need elite talent to be a top contender, not just challenging UConn, but beating N.D., Maryland and South Carolina who are emerging as the top threats to the Huskies. 

As I have repeated ad nauseum on this forum before, I thought the momentum from our run of success from 2008-2014 would be translated onto the recruiting trail and there would be more young and elite high school girls' basketball players inspired to do better in the classroom so they could play for us.  For a while there, especially in '09 and '10, we were considered the top challenger to UConn.

UConn and lately N.D. (not withstanding their rash of recent injuries) seem to reload every year with top players lately.  I guess it will depend on luck if a Top-3 or Top-5 recruit the next few years will have the academic credentials and aspirations to play on the Farm and become our next superstar.  Relying on luck is a little sad, though, considering the success of our program under Tara that only a handful of other schools can match, but I guess that's life.

[TheFarm07]

Tennessee has not been the Tennessee of old since their championship in 2008.  Duke has underperformed their talent level for McCallie's whole time there.  We are in a strange spot.  We have a young team that could coalesce into something very good this year or more probably next next year.  That is the optimistic scenario.  But even very good probably would not be up to the standards we enjoyed during the Final Four string. 

Strange to think that Tennessee hasn't been back to the Final Four since their Candace Parker-led team beat our Candice Wiggins-led team in 2008.

[TheFarm07]

Tennessee has not been the Tennessee of old since their championship in 2008.  Duke has underperformed their talent level for McCallie's whole time there.  We are in a strange spot.  We have a young team that could coalesce into something very good this year or more probably next next year.  That is the optimistic scenario.  But even very good probably would not be up to the standards we enjoyed during the Final Four string. 

Strange to think that Tennessee hasn't been back to the Final Four since their Candace Parker-led team beat our Candice Wiggins-led team in 2008.

[TheFarm07]

Pohlen was playing on a sprained ankle hurt it again late then came out.  I think she was our best PG since Azzi/Henning.   

But still we should have beaten A&M and sitting there Cheering then in dis belief was no fun at all

Didn't we have a 10 point lead with 5 minutes to go in that game?

I don't dispute Pohlen being a great player, but if I remember correctly, Texas A&M's guards were giving us a lot of trouble because of their quickness and speed and we used Murphy a lot more than we usually did in that game as a counter, which was working pretty decently well until she fouled out.

[TheFarm07]

Pohlen was playing on a sprained ankle hurt it again late then came out.  I think she was our best PG since Azzi/Henning.   

But still we should have beaten A&M and sitting there Cheering then in dis belief was no fun at all

Didn't we have a 10 point lead with 5 minutes to go in that game?

I don't dispute Pohlen being a great player, but if I remember correctly, Texas A&M's guards were giving us a lot of trouble because of their quickness and speed and we used Murphy a lot more than we usually did in that game as a counter, which was working pretty decently well until she fouled out.

[BostonCard]

FWIW, we have the second highest RPI in the country.

https://twitter.com/pac12/status/676518344661577728

And yes, silly that they focused on SC.

BC

[BostonCard]

FWIW, we have the second highest RPI in the country.

https://twitter.com/pac12/status/676518344661577728

And yes, silly that they focused on SC.

BC

[CompSci87]

[quote author=BobK link=topic=14047.msg148109#msg148109 date=1450113087]
Pohlen was playing on a sprained ankle hurt it again late then came out.  I think she was our best PG since Azzi/Henning.   

But still we should have beaten A&M and sitting there Cheering then in dis belief was no fun at all

Didn't we have a 10 point lead with 5 minutes to go in that game?

I don't dispute Pohlen being a great player, but if I remember correctly, Texas A&M's guards were giving us a lot of trouble because of their quickness and speed and we used Murphy a lot more than we usually did in that game as a counter, which was working pretty decently well until she fouled out.
[/quote]

Sadly we were playing 5 on 8 that game. It was the A&M guards who ought to have fouled out. But don't get me started...

[CompSci87]

[quote author=BobK link=topic=14047.msg148109#msg148109 date=1450113087]
Pohlen was playing on a sprained ankle hurt it again late then came out.  I think she was our best PG since Azzi/Henning.   

But still we should have beaten A&M and sitting there Cheering then in dis belief was no fun at all

Didn't we have a 10 point lead with 5 minutes to go in that game?

I don't dispute Pohlen being a great player, but if I remember correctly, Texas A&M's guards were giving us a lot of trouble because of their quickness and speed and we used Murphy a lot more than we usually did in that game as a counter, which was working pretty decently well until she fouled out.
[/quote]

Sadly we were playing 5 on 8 that game. It was the A&M guards who ought to have fouled out. But don't get me started...

[M T]

FWIW, we have the second highest RPI in the country.

It is those kind of RPI rankings that make it lose all its credibility.  Two loses in 8 games, and ranked #2 in RPI ??  Certainly the two teams that beat us should be ranked higher, if RPI were worth its salt.  Jeez, Texas is 8-0, beat the two-loss #2 ranked RPI team and gets a #21 RPI ???  Of course it is early in the season, but this situation helps one to understand that RPI is seriously flawed, even when things are relatively simple.  Later in the season, things are more complex so people can't point out the idiocy of it so easily.

So, in my opinion, FWIW, RPI is worth very little.

[M T]

FWIW, we have the second highest RPI in the country.

It is those kind of RPI rankings that make it lose all its credibility.  Two loses in 8 games, and ranked #2 in RPI ??  Certainly the two teams that beat us should be ranked higher, if RPI were worth its salt.  Jeez, Texas is 8-0, beat the two-loss #2 ranked RPI team and gets a #21 RPI ???  Of course it is early in the season, but this situation helps one to understand that RPI is seriously flawed, even when things are relatively simple.  Later in the season, things are more complex so people can't point out the idiocy of it so easily.

So, in my opinion, FWIW, RPI is worth very little.

[BobK]

It'll change soon.  Sac State beat UC Davis

[BobK]

It'll change soon.  Sac State beat UC Davis

[Mike]

"Of all the many 21st Century WBB players lost to injury, the one I miss most is Ms. Kokenis."

I think the one we miss most is Aly Beebe, who is a senior this year and probably would have been our leading scorer/rebounder. Think about a lineup of Beebe, McCall, Tomlinson, Roberson and Samuelson. Her ACLs threw a monkey-wrench into the program that have had a multi-year and far-reaching effect. We forget that she was a member of the top-player group that we say we haven't gotten recently. There but for misfortune ...

[Mike]

"Of all the many 21st Century WBB players lost to injury, the one I miss most is Ms. Kokenis."

I think the one we miss most is Aly Beebe, who is a senior this year and probably would have been our leading scorer/rebounder. Think about a lineup of Beebe, McCall, Tomlinson, Roberson and Samuelson. Her ACLs threw a monkey-wrench into the program that have had a multi-year and far-reaching effect. We forget that she was a member of the top-player group that we say we haven't gotten recently. There but for misfortune ...

[Jskass]

good point. We never got to see her play but she may have gone far to seal our post challenges the past few years.

[Jskass]

good point. We never got to see her play but she may have gone far to seal our post challenges the past few years.

[81alum]

"Of all the many 21st Century WBB players lost to injury, the one I miss most is Ms. Kokenis."

I think the one we miss most is Aly Beebe, who is a senior this year and probably would have been our leading scorer/rebounder. Think about a lineup of Beebe, McCall, Tomlinson, Roberson and Samuelson. Her ACLs threw a monkey-wrench into the program that have had a multi-year and far-reaching effect. We forget that she was a member of the top-player group that we say we haven't gotten recently. There but for misfortune ...

Yes.  The most highly ranked recruit since Chiney never plays a minute for us.  That has had an effect.  Although by some measure Alanna Smith is more highly rated--No. 5.  I still have high hopes for her, but the adjustment has not been easy. 

As I recall, Beebe reinjured her knee and retired  toward the beginning of the sophomore season, meaning that the recruit to fill her slot could not start until Beebe was a junior.  That would make Kaylee or McPhee or Taylor Rooks the holder of her scholarship now, except that Taylor has moved on.  Maybe it is Kira Lahkian who currently holds the Beebe scholarship--if one could track such things.

[81alum]

"Of all the many 21st Century WBB players lost to injury, the one I miss most is Ms. Kokenis."

I think the one we miss most is Aly Beebe, who is a senior this year and probably would have been our leading scorer/rebounder. Think about a lineup of Beebe, McCall, Tomlinson, Roberson and Samuelson. Her ACLs threw a monkey-wrench into the program that have had a multi-year and far-reaching effect. We forget that she was a member of the top-player group that we say we haven't gotten recently. There but for misfortune ...

Yes.  The most highly ranked recruit since Chiney never plays a minute for us.  That has had an effect.  Although by some measure Alanna Smith is more highly rated--No. 5.  I still have high hopes for her, but the adjustment has not been easy. 

As I recall, Beebe reinjured her knee and retired  toward the beginning of the sophomore season, meaning that the recruit to fill her slot could not start until Beebe was a junior.  That would make Kaylee or McPhee or Taylor Rooks the holder of her scholarship now, except that Taylor has moved on.  Maybe it is Kira Lahkian who currently holds the Beebe scholarship--if one could track such things.

[BobK]

Pretty sure Beebe graduated in 3 years.  She expected to last we spoke, last school year. 

[BobK]

Pretty sure Beebe graduated in 3 years.  She expected to last we spoke, last school year. 

[81alum]

No insight for Kaylee but my question for Wednesday's chalk talk

I will count on you to give us a report on the chalk talk and behind the bench insights, Bob.  I'm getting home late from a final today and can't make it to the game, so I will be relying on TV.

[81alum]

No insight for Kaylee but my question for Wednesday's chalk talk

I will count on you to give us a report on the chalk talk and behind the bench insights, Bob.  I'm getting home late from a final today and can't make it to the game, so I will be relying on TV.

[BobK]

Make it a take home test. 😜

[BobK]

Make it a take home test. 😜