[Snorlax94]

A few games ago, I wrote that one of the punters I saw was one of the worst punters I had seen in the power 5. But when I wrote that, I distantly recall making the same observation about a different punter, earlier this season. Now when I see someone shank multiple punts 10-20 yards, I'll have to say -- that's the worst punter I've seen in the past 3 weeks.

It makes me wonder:

1) Are punters really getting worse?

2) Or, maybe punting has gotten so much more complicated it's making the punters look worse. Maybe rushers are coming more quickly, or special teams planning is getting too complicated.

I think punters are getting worse these days, and I wonder about two possible causes:

1) There really are fewer and fewer football players each year. When I was in Hawaii this August, I read how many high schools are canceling games due to a lack of bodies. If a team had just a few injuries, they'd have to cancel. I've heard many high schools are eliminating tryouts for football: anyone who wants to play makes the team.

2) Maybe athletes are getting more and more specialized. I've read how in baseball, so many kids are paying for pro training, they're becoming super-good at batting and pitching, but at the cost of basic skills like simple fielding, throwing and catching. They say great batting averages or super-fast pitchers are what get colleges' attention, so kids stop working on the basics, and it's getting harder to get recruits who have mastered the basics you'd expect. And maybe punting is like that?

Thoughts? Are punters getting worse or am I getting a rosy view of the past due to age?

[Snorlax94]

A few games ago, I wrote that one of the punters I saw was one of the worst punters I had seen in the power 5. But when I wrote that, I distantly recall making the same observation about a different punter, earlier this season. Now when I see someone shank multiple punts 10-20 yards, I'll have to say -- that's the worst punter I've seen in the past 3 weeks.

It makes me wonder:

1) Are punters really getting worse?

2) Or, maybe punting has gotten so much more complicated it's making the punters look worse. Maybe rushers are coming more quickly, or special teams planning is getting too complicated.

I think punters are getting worse these days, and I wonder about two possible causes:

1) There really are fewer and fewer football players each year. When I was in Hawaii this August, I read how many high schools are canceling games due to a lack of bodies. If a team had just a few injuries, they'd have to cancel. I've heard many high schools are eliminating tryouts for football: anyone who wants to play makes the team.

2) Maybe athletes are getting more and more specialized. I've read how in baseball, so many kids are paying for pro training, they're becoming super-good at batting and pitching, but at the cost of basic skills like simple fielding, throwing and catching. They say great batting averages or super-fast pitchers are what get colleges' attention, so kids stop working on the basics, and it's getting harder to get recruits who have mastered the basics you'd expect. And maybe punting is like that?

Thoughts? Are punters getting worse or am I getting a rosy view of the past due to age?

[hayaka]

My unscientific opinion is that punters are definitely better the last 5-10 years at keeping the ball on the field, i.e. not booming their kicks into the end zone. I'm sure this would be borne out by statistics showing the number of fair catches inside the 15 yard line is way up, but I'm too lazy to actually look it up.

As far as punting distance, that seems pretty stable, in the 40-45 yard range. I haven't notice more shanked punts. Again, the thing I've noticed more than anything else is that fair catches seem to be way up.   

[hayaka]

My unscientific opinion is that punters are definitely better the last 5-10 years at keeping the ball on the field, i.e. not booming their kicks into the end zone. I'm sure this would be borne out by statistics showing the number of fair catches inside the 15 yard line is way up, but I'm too lazy to actually look it up.

As far as punting distance, that seems pretty stable, in the 40-45 yard range. I haven't notice more shanked punts. Again, the thing I've noticed more than anything else is that fair catches seem to be way up.   

[murky]

A few games ago, I wrote that one of the punters I saw was one of the worst punters I had seen in the power 5. But when I wrote that, I distantly recall making the same observation about a different punter, earlier this season. Now when I see someone shank multiple punts 10-20 yards, I'll have to say -- that's the worst punter I've seen in the past 3 weeks.

It makes me wonder:

1) Are punters really getting worse?

2) Or, maybe punting has gotten so much more complicated it's making the punters look worse. Maybe rushers are coming more quickly, or special teams planning is getting too complicated.

I think punters are getting worse these days, and I wonder about two possible causes:

1) There really are fewer and fewer football players each year. When I was in Hawaii this August, I read how many high schools are canceling games due to a lack of bodies. If a team had just a few injuries, they'd have to cancel. I've heard many high schools are eliminating tryouts for football: anyone who wants to play makes the team.

2) Maybe athletes are getting more and more specialized. I've read how in baseball, so many kids are paying for pro training, they're becoming super-good at batting and pitching, but at the cost of basic skills like simple fielding, throwing and catching. They say great batting averages or super-fast pitchers are what get colleges' attention, so kids stop working on the basics, and it's getting harder to get recruits who have mastered the basics you'd expect. And maybe punting is like that?

Thoughts? Are punters getting worse or am I getting a rosy view of the past due to age?

On one of my nephews' high school team, the punter is a girl, and the one game I saw she was not playing.

They were up 40-0 in the first half on 5 touchdowns.  I thought it was cruel and unusual that they were going for 2 and making it every time, and then doing an onside kick.  I only learned after that their punter was missing.

[murky]

A few games ago, I wrote that one of the punters I saw was one of the worst punters I had seen in the power 5. But when I wrote that, I distantly recall making the same observation about a different punter, earlier this season. Now when I see someone shank multiple punts 10-20 yards, I'll have to say -- that's the worst punter I've seen in the past 3 weeks.

It makes me wonder:

1) Are punters really getting worse?

2) Or, maybe punting has gotten so much more complicated it's making the punters look worse. Maybe rushers are coming more quickly, or special teams planning is getting too complicated.

I think punters are getting worse these days, and I wonder about two possible causes:

1) There really are fewer and fewer football players each year. When I was in Hawaii this August, I read how many high schools are canceling games due to a lack of bodies. If a team had just a few injuries, they'd have to cancel. I've heard many high schools are eliminating tryouts for football: anyone who wants to play makes the team.

2) Maybe athletes are getting more and more specialized. I've read how in baseball, so many kids are paying for pro training, they're becoming super-good at batting and pitching, but at the cost of basic skills like simple fielding, throwing and catching. They say great batting averages or super-fast pitchers are what get colleges' attention, so kids stop working on the basics, and it's getting harder to get recruits who have mastered the basics you'd expect. And maybe punting is like that?

Thoughts? Are punters getting worse or am I getting a rosy view of the past due to age?

On one of my nephews' high school team, the punter is a girl, and the one game I saw she was not playing.

They were up 40-0 in the first half on 5 touchdowns.  I thought it was cruel and unusual that they were going for 2 and making it every time, and then doing an onside kick.  I only learned after that their punter was missing.

[CompSci87]

I'm missing the connection between the punter being out and the 2-point conversions and onside kicks. Was she their kicker too?

[CompSci87]

I'm missing the connection between the punter being out and the 2-point conversions and onside kicks. Was she their kicker too?

[Mick]

I'm missing the connection between the punter being out and the 2-point conversions and onside kicks. Was she their kicker too?

I was on a terrible high school team from a very small school (180 kids) and we played 11-man football.  We had three guys who could kick to the 5 yard line (from the then-40 yard kickoff) and the same three guys could punt the ball 50+ yards every time.  My guess is there's someone on the roster who could have kicked and/or punted and wasn't injured.

[Mick]

I'm missing the connection between the punter being out and the 2-point conversions and onside kicks. Was she their kicker too?

I was on a terrible high school team from a very small school (180 kids) and we played 11-man football.  We had three guys who could kick to the 5 yard line (from the then-40 yard kickoff) and the same three guys could punt the ball 50+ yards every time.  My guess is there's someone on the roster who could have kicked and/or punted and wasn't injured.

[ColoradoTree]

[quote author=CompSci87 link=topic=17718.msg206886#msg206886 date=1508216423]
I'm missing the connection between the punter being out and the 2-point conversions and onside kicks. Was she their kicker too?

I was on a terrible high school team from a very small school (180 kids) and we played 11-man football.  We had three guys who could kick to the 5 yard line (from the then-40 yard kickoff) and the same three guys could punt the ball 50+ yards every time.  My guess is there's someone on the roster who could have kicked and/or punted and wasn't injured.
[/quote]

Even if there weren't, it doesn't seem terribly sporting to continue to kick onside after each touchdown. 

I don't quibble with the 2-point conversions, though, as we did the same thing at my tiny high school.  We only had 20 guys on the entire team, and a reliable snapper, holder, and kicker did not together exist among that group.  So, we went for two on the rare occasions that we scored, as the calculus was different from a normal team--rather than a nearly 100% chance at 1 point vs. a coin flip for two, it was a 0% chance of 1 point vs. a coin flip for two.  Pretty easy call! 

[ColoradoTree]

[quote author=CompSci87 link=topic=17718.msg206886#msg206886 date=1508216423]
I'm missing the connection between the punter being out and the 2-point conversions and onside kicks. Was she their kicker too?

I was on a terrible high school team from a very small school (180 kids) and we played 11-man football.  We had three guys who could kick to the 5 yard line (from the then-40 yard kickoff) and the same three guys could punt the ball 50+ yards every time.  My guess is there's someone on the roster who could have kicked and/or punted and wasn't injured.
[/quote]

Even if there weren't, it doesn't seem terribly sporting to continue to kick onside after each touchdown. 

I don't quibble with the 2-point conversions, though, as we did the same thing at my tiny high school.  We only had 20 guys on the entire team, and a reliable snapper, holder, and kicker did not together exist among that group.  So, we went for two on the rare occasions that we scored, as the calculus was different from a normal team--rather than a nearly 100% chance at 1 point vs. a coin flip for two, it was a 0% chance of 1 point vs. a coin flip for two.  Pretty easy call! 

[murky]

I'm missing the connection between the punter being out and the 2-point conversions and onside kicks. Was she their kicker too?

I'm laughing.  Yeah, maybe no connection.  She must have been the kicker, and may or may not have been the punter.  It didn't come up because they didn't punt.  Apparently they had a separate onside kick specialist.

[murky]

I'm missing the connection between the punter being out and the 2-point conversions and onside kicks. Was she their kicker too?

I'm laughing.  Yeah, maybe no connection.  She must have been the kicker, and may or may not have been the punter.  It didn't come up because they didn't punt.  Apparently they had a separate onside kick specialist.

[CornFed]

Speaking of going for 2, Iowa changed the rules for extra point attempts my senior year to allow teams to go for 2 by run or pass.  My brilliant high school coach, Sherm Wolleson, from that point forward exclusively went for 2 regardless of the game situation.  :o  As the kicker, I was pretty chapped.

I had made my only field goal attempt during my junior year.  Heaven only knows why he let me try it.  It got so bad my senior year that he wouldn't even consider trying field goals again.  We had a 0-0 tie against Sioux Falls O'Gorman and were inside the 10-yard line 4 times!  I diligently went up and stood near him each time, but NOOOOO!!  No field goal unit called.

And yes, I'm still bitter.  😡😠

[CornFed]

Speaking of going for 2, Iowa changed the rules for extra point attempts my senior year to allow teams to go for 2 by run or pass.  My brilliant high school coach, Sherm Wolleson, from that point forward exclusively went for 2 regardless of the game situation.  :o  As the kicker, I was pretty chapped.

I had made my only field goal attempt during my junior year.  Heaven only knows why he let me try it.  It got so bad my senior year that he wouldn't even consider trying field goals again.  We had a 0-0 tie against Sioux Falls O'Gorman and were inside the 10-yard line 4 times!  I diligently went up and stood near him each time, but NOOOOO!!  No field goal unit called.

And yes, I'm still bitter.  😡😠

[teejers1]

You should be chapped - that's nuts!

In retrospect, maybe you should have pulled a Jimmy Chitwood in the last timeout huddle of the Indiana HS state championship game when Gene Hackman (Coach Dale) was drawing up a play for another player to take the potential game winning shot.

Jimmy Chitwood, who said about 20 words in the entire flick, looks his coach in the eyes and declares simply:  "I'll make it."

(The rest is movie history).

[teejers1]

You should be chapped - that's nuts!

In retrospect, maybe you should have pulled a Jimmy Chitwood in the last timeout huddle of the Indiana HS state championship game when Gene Hackman (Coach Dale) was drawing up a play for another player to take the potential game winning shot.

Jimmy Chitwood, who said about 20 words in the entire flick, looks his coach in the eyes and declares simply:  "I'll make it."

(The rest is movie history).

[Mick]

Speaking of going for 2, Iowa changed the rules for extra point attempts my senior year to allow teams to go for 2 by run or pass.  My brilliant high school coach, Sherm Wolleson, from that point forward exclusively went for 2 regardless of the game situation.  :o  As the kicker, I was pretty chapped.

I had made my only field goal attempt during my junior year.  Heaven only knows why he let me try it.  It got so bad my senior year that he wouldn't even consider trying field goals again.  We had a 0-0 tie against Sioux Falls O'Gorman and were inside the 10-yard line 4 times!  I diligently went up and stood near him each time, but NOOOOO!!  No field goal unit called.

And yes, I'm still bitter.  😡😠

I don't blame you.  But I have yet to meet a single high school football coach that I've admired.

[Mick]

Speaking of going for 2, Iowa changed the rules for extra point attempts my senior year to allow teams to go for 2 by run or pass.  My brilliant high school coach, Sherm Wolleson, from that point forward exclusively went for 2 regardless of the game situation.  :o  As the kicker, I was pretty chapped.

I had made my only field goal attempt during my junior year.  Heaven only knows why he let me try it.  It got so bad my senior year that he wouldn't even consider trying field goals again.  We had a 0-0 tie against Sioux Falls O'Gorman and were inside the 10-yard line 4 times!  I diligently went up and stood near him each time, but NOOOOO!!  No field goal unit called.

And yes, I'm still bitter.  😡😠

I don't blame you.  But I have yet to meet a single high school football coach that I've admired.

[hardball01]

well . . . did you guys beat O'Gorman? Don't leave us in suspense.

[hardball01]

well . . . did you guys beat O'Gorman? Don't leave us in suspense.

[CornFed]

well . . . did you guys beat O'Gorman? Don't leave us in suspense.

No.  That's what was so frustrating!  We ended up kissing our proverbial sister - it was a 0-0 tie!

I had, previous to that game, met w/ him and presented my case.  I had made all but 1 extra point in my soph, junior and part of my senior year.  We were making about 1/3 of our 2-point attempts up to that point (an admittedly much smaller sample size).  Told him that our decision to go for two should be more situationally specific.  O'Gorman was the 3rd game after my "presentation".  ::)

As Bugs Bunny would say, "What a maroon!!"

[CornFed]

well . . . did you guys beat O'Gorman? Don't leave us in suspense.

No.  That's what was so frustrating!  We ended up kissing our proverbial sister - it was a 0-0 tie!

I had, previous to that game, met w/ him and presented my case.  I had made all but 1 extra point in my soph, junior and part of my senior year.  We were making about 1/3 of our 2-point attempts up to that point (an admittedly much smaller sample size).  Told him that our decision to go for two should be more situationally specific.  O'Gorman was the 3rd game after my "presentation".  ::)

As Bugs Bunny would say, "What a maroon!!"