[lex24]

McCutheon is the kind of player that could got hot for a month , especially in a good lineup.  He would bring a little value. Maybe a couple mid level prospects. I’d also deal Dyson and either Watson or Smith. They need to start building he farm system. They are headed for a couple years of pain. 


Also, this is the wrong front office and manager for a rebuilding team. They have no patience for young players. It’s been a tremendous run. I will always appreciate Bochy and Sabean. But it’s time for a change. (Gee that would make a good campaign slogan....)

[lex24]

McCutheon is the kind of player that could got hot for a month , especially in a good lineup.  He would bring a little value. Maybe a couple mid level prospects. I’d also deal Dyson and either Watson or Smith. They need to start building he farm system. They are headed for a couple years of pain. 


Also, this is the wrong front office and manager for a rebuilding team. They have no patience for young players. It’s been a tremendous run. I will always appreciate Bochy and Sabean. But it’s time for a change. (Gee that would make a good campaign slogan....)

[Phogge]

Got to make a Posey decision. I can’t see him catching 110 games after the hip surgery. If they are non contenders what worth is Belt? 

And Bobbbbbbbbb the true Crawford is just what I expected through the fog that obscured his great month.

If they stand pat a middle aged .500 team will soon become a crappy .400 team.

Contracts be dammed. The Giants print money.

[Phogge]

Got to make a Posey decision. I can’t see him catching 110 games after the hip surgery. If they are non contenders what worth is Belt? 

And Bobbbbbbbbb the true Crawford is just what I expected through the fog that obscured his great month.

If they stand pat a middle aged .500 team will soon become a crappy .400 team.

Contracts be dammed. The Giants print money.

[BobK]

Very logical that the Giants would try to trade him.

[BobK]

Very logical that the Giants would try to trade him.

[Mick]

McCutheon is the kind of player that could got hot for a month , especially in a good lineup.  He would bring a little value. Maybe a couple mid level prospects. 

I read somewhere that McCutchen has been snakebit the entire year with bad luck.  Supposedly he has the fifth highest "line drive" average in the NL, whatever that means.

[Mick]

McCutheon is the kind of player that could got hot for a month , especially in a good lineup.  He would bring a little value. Maybe a couple mid level prospects. 

I read somewhere that McCutchen has been snakebit the entire year with bad luck.  Supposedly he has the fifth highest "line drive" average in the NL, whatever that means.

[BobK]

When he doesn't strike out.  118 already

[BobK]

When he doesn't strike out.  118 already

[lex24]

Sabean’s recent comments are an indictment on Sabean. It took them this long to figure out what the”lunatic fringe” has known since May. 

Posey in the lineup tonight. AYFKM. 

It’s time to think about moving the power ally’s  in at AT&T.  Cutch. Home: .383 Slg. 4 HR’s. Road:  .428. 10 HRs. Longoria. Home. .331 slg. 3 HR’s. Road. .500 3 HR

[lex24]

Sabean’s recent comments are an indictment on Sabean. It took them this long to figure out what the”lunatic fringe” has known since May. 

Posey in the lineup tonight. AYFKM. 

It’s time to think about moving the power ally’s  in at AT&T.  Cutch. Home: .383 Slg. 4 HR’s. Road:  .428. 10 HRs. Longoria. Home. .331 slg. 3 HR’s. Road. .500 3 HR

[OutsiderFan]

The Giants don't need to move the fences at AT&T Park. They need to develop better players.

[OutsiderFan]

The Giants don't need to move the fences at AT&T Park. They need to develop better players.

[BobK]

I have throught for years Left to dead center are too deep.

[BobK]

I have throught for years Left to dead center are too deep.

[Mick]

Last night the Giants beat the Rangers 5-3.  Stanford's Austin Slater went 1 for 4 with an odd error leading to three unearned runs.  Washed up Hunter Pence hit a home run, and Posey will be out for six months with labrum surgery.

In the category of "Things I Don't Remotely Understand" is the fact that the Giants have the 16th best home ERA in all of MLB at 3.81 (and 19th best WHIP at 1.30).  Their road ERA is 11th at 4.02.  WTH?  Giants are 20th in MLB in fielding, and 28th in runs scored.  Ugly, ugly, ugly.  Can't believe they're only three games below .500.

On a lighter note, two nights ago, in the category of "Things I Have Unaccountably Enjoyed" is the sight of Hall of Famer Pudge Rodriguez whiffing on a foul ball...

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/giants...-son-mound

[Mick]

Last night the Giants beat the Rangers 5-3.  Stanford's Austin Slater went 1 for 4 with an odd error leading to three unearned runs.  Washed up Hunter Pence hit a home run, and Posey will be out for six months with labrum surgery.

In the category of "Things I Don't Remotely Understand" is the fact that the Giants have the 16th best home ERA in all of MLB at 3.81 (and 19th best WHIP at 1.30).  Their road ERA is 11th at 4.02.  WTH?  Giants are 20th in MLB in fielding, and 28th in runs scored.  Ugly, ugly, ugly.  Can't believe they're only three games below .500.

On a lighter note, two nights ago, in the category of "Things I Have Unaccountably Enjoyed" is the sight of Hall of Famer Pudge Rodriguez whiffing on a foul ball...

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/giants...-son-mound

[BobK]

Yes time for even me to look forward.

We lose $ 43M in contracts after this season:
Cain
Pence
McCutchen
Jackson

We gain about $ 15M with raises, assuming we can keep all/want to keep all:
Hundley  Free Agent
Panda     Free Agent
Dyson
Hernandez
Smith
Hanson

Two brobdingnagian Contracts I'd love to lose but no clue how:
Melonhead $ 17M then $17M in 2020
Shark  $20M then $20M in 2020

As callers to talk radio say lets trade them for Stanton and Judge, LOL LOL

Free Agents after the 2019 Season:
Bumgardner
Smith
I want to keep both

My guess Bochy says good bye it's been great, if so who is the Manager?
I don't see a brobdingnagian upheaval in the front office, but the owners can't be happy

Would love, just rejoice if Belt were traded, but $ 17M next three years.   

Thoughts?

[BobK]

Yes time for even me to look forward.

We lose $ 43M in contracts after this season:
Cain
Pence
McCutchen
Jackson

We gain about $ 15M with raises, assuming we can keep all/want to keep all:
Hundley  Free Agent
Panda     Free Agent
Dyson
Hernandez
Smith
Hanson

Two brobdingnagian Contracts I'd love to lose but no clue how:
Melonhead $ 17M then $17M in 2020
Shark  $20M then $20M in 2020

As callers to talk radio say lets trade them for Stanton and Judge, LOL LOL

Free Agents after the 2019 Season:
Bumgardner
Smith
I want to keep both

My guess Bochy says good bye it's been great, if so who is the Manager?
I don't see a brobdingnagian upheaval in the front office, but the owners can't be happy

Would love, just rejoice if Belt were traded, but $ 17M next three years.   

Thoughts?

[BostonCard]

Can I make a modest proposal...

Now that fall Stanford sports have started and football is four days away, can I ask that the Giants threads go on a temporary hiatus on this board (at least until something significant happens or until the end of Spring sports)?

BC

[BostonCard]

Can I make a modest proposal...

Now that fall Stanford sports have started and football is four days away, can I ask that the Giants threads go on a temporary hiatus on this board (at least until something significant happens or until the end of Spring sports)?

BC

[Extra Point]

Can I make a modest proposal...

Now that fall Stanford sports have started and football is four days away, can I ask that the Giants threads go on a temporary hiatus on this board (at least until something significant happens or until the end of Spring sports)?

BC

I second this! +1

[Extra Point]

Can I make a modest proposal...

Now that fall Stanford sports have started and football is four days away, can I ask that the Giants threads go on a temporary hiatus on this board (at least until something significant happens or until the end of Spring sports)?

BC

I second this! +1

[CompSci87]

Can I make a modest proposal...

Now that fall Stanford sports have started and football is four days away, can I ask that the Giants threads go on a temporary hiatus on this board (at least until something significant happens or until the end of Spring sports)?

BC

I second this! +1

The mods have discussed quietly merging newly started Giants threads into existing ones, to keep the number down. I don't think we should ban them entirely since some of our members really seem to enjoy discussing the Giants here.

[CompSci87]

Can I make a modest proposal...

Now that fall Stanford sports have started and football is four days away, can I ask that the Giants threads go on a temporary hiatus on this board (at least until something significant happens or until the end of Spring sports)?

BC

I second this! +1

The mods have discussed quietly merging newly started Giants threads into existing ones, to keep the number down. I don't think we should ban them entirely since some of our members really seem to enjoy discussing the Giants here.

[BostonCard]

Can I make a modest proposal...

Now that fall Stanford sports have started and football is four days away, can I ask that the Giants threads go on a temporary hiatus on this board (at least until something significant happens or until the end of Spring sports)?

BC

I second this! +1

The mods have discussed quietly merging newly started Giants threads into existing ones, to keep the number down. I don't think we should ban them entirely since some of our members really seem to enjoy discussing the Giants here.

I wasn't suggesting a ban, just a temporary hiatus, and nothing formal.  It was more a request that the frequent Giants posters be a bit more selective about when they post about the Giants, at least until the next Stanford athletics lull.

BC

[BostonCard]

Can I make a modest proposal...

Now that fall Stanford sports have started and football is four days away, can I ask that the Giants threads go on a temporary hiatus on this board (at least until something significant happens or until the end of Spring sports)?

BC

I second this! +1

The mods have discussed quietly merging newly started Giants threads into existing ones, to keep the number down. I don't think we should ban them entirely since some of our members really seem to enjoy discussing the Giants here.

I wasn't suggesting a ban, just a temporary hiatus, and nothing formal.  It was more a request that the frequent Giants posters be a bit more selective about when they post about the Giants, at least until the next Stanford athletics lull.

BC

[pefloresjr]

I like the threads that deal with the teams that are "local" to Stanford.  If there isn't enough interest, they will die on the vine and those who aren't interested can just skip them.  I don't drink coffee or understand the posts about graphene so I ignore them when they inevitably rise from the dead.  

As for the Giants, their park and their recent championships were built on great pitching and solid fielding.  I would spend first on pitching, look for a great center fielder, then fill in from there.  I don't know enough about the free agents to have valid opinions about the best players to pursue.  

Cheers,
Pete F.

[pefloresjr]

I like the threads that deal with the teams that are "local" to Stanford.  If there isn't enough interest, they will die on the vine and those who aren't interested can just skip them.  I don't drink coffee or understand the posts about graphene so I ignore them when they inevitably rise from the dead.  

As for the Giants, their park and their recent championships were built on great pitching and solid fielding.  I would spend first on pitching, look for a great center fielder, then fill in from there.  I don't know enough about the free agents to have valid opinions about the best players to pursue.  

Cheers,
Pete F.

[triangle2]

Would love, just rejoice if Belt were traded, but $ 17M next three years.   

The evident discord over Belt's career to date is really fascinating. I've concluded that my feelings about him are influenced more by how his salary prevents the team from other upgrades than I am about his actual play. I'm not sure what to make of his stats (some modern metrics seem to support those that say "he's a better player than you think"), e.g. career OPS .816, WAR for his age 27-30 seasons 3.7, 4.6, 3.0, 2.4 (to date), but there's less support with traditional stats like batting average over that same period: .280, .275, .241, .268, and RBI's: 68, 82, 51, 44. Belt isn't particularly a fan favorite and many on this board have expressed the general feeling that he's not a positive contributor. To date, Belt has 112 HR's, 413 RBI, and one All-Star appearance. I just have mixed feelings.

Here are some interesting statistical comparisons for three Giants who played the corners within my fan memory (and certainly within Bob's...):

Player #1: Career OPS .792; Season stats for 4 seasons from age 27-30: WAR (7.2, 3.1, -0.1/0.3, 1.4), Batting Ave. (.240, .243, .205, .254), RBI (79, 73, 46, 72). Note that the split WAR represents a year in which the player was traded midseason.

Player #2: Career OPS .784; Season stats for 4 seasons from age 27-30: WAR (1.1, -0.7, 2.9, 0.7), Batting Ave. (.289, .257, .281 .248) RBI (102, 67, 104, 79).

Player #3: Career OPS .880, Season stats for 4 seasons from age 27-30 WAR (5.2, 3.8, 1.5, 3.6), Batting Ave. (.301, .300, .283, .329) RBI (116, 73, 73, 80)

Before reading further, can you guess the names of players #1, 2, and 3, and how would you feel about the relative 'worth' of each player at a corner position based solely on numbers? Would you keep that player long-term and see how his age 31-36 seasons played out? And, how would you rank Belt within this grouping of 4 players? Answers are below the asterisks...

*
*
*

Player #1 is Darrell Evans. Other career stats of note: 414 HR's, 1354 RBI, 1605 walks, and .248 batting average. A 2-time All-Star. Leaving the 'Stick was great for Evans' career and included three great seasons with the Tigers with 40, 29, and 34 home runs during his age 38-40 seasons. Keeping Evans and moving him permanently to 1B would have prevented the Al Oliver, Dan Driessen, Rick Lancellotti era.

Player #3 is probably an easy guess. Will the Thrill. Career stats: 284 HR's, 1205 RBI, 937 walks, and .303 Batting Ave. 6-time All-Star. Declining power production and a couple of injuries lessened his longer-term career impact, although a career 56.5 WAR is nothing to sneeze at. (But, I didn't realize until looking this up that Evans' career WAR is higher at 58.8). Clark's post age-30 career was certainly significantly better than what the Giants go out of moving Rich Aurilia to 1B.

Player #2 is long-time fan favorite JT Snow. Career stats: 189 HR, 877 RBI, 760 walks, and .268 Batting Ave. No All-Star picks. Career WAR of 11.0. He had essentially two more great years after age 30 and then his offensive production fell off the cliff. A great glove at 1B. 

The list of Giants first basemen since McCovey is not a distinguished list other than Clark. Belt seems to slot in second place behind Clark since Evans played more 3B than 1B until he left for the Tigers. But doesn't Belt's career trajectory looks better than Snow (if not his defense)? Is there anyone else since McCovey left for San Diego who's had a 4-year stretch better than Belt other than the Thrill? Or even a 3-year stretch? Let's not forget that we've endured Rick Lancellotti, JR Phillips, and Willie Montanez...

I do acknowledge that the 17M contract skews my thinking about Belt a lot. As a hitter, he's actually a lot like Evans but without the HR power. Irritatingly patient, willing to take the walk. But his batting value seems lower than Evans because of the lack of HR production and not driving in enough runs. But honestly pretty distinguished at 1B for the post-McCovey era...

[triangle2]

Would love, just rejoice if Belt were traded, but $ 17M next three years.   

The evident discord over Belt's career to date is really fascinating. I've concluded that my feelings about him are influenced more by how his salary prevents the team from other upgrades than I am about his actual play. I'm not sure what to make of his stats (some modern metrics seem to support those that say "he's a better player than you think"), e.g. career OPS .816, WAR for his age 27-30 seasons 3.7, 4.6, 3.0, 2.4 (to date), but there's less support with traditional stats like batting average over that same period: .280, .275, .241, .268, and RBI's: 68, 82, 51, 44. Belt isn't particularly a fan favorite and many on this board have expressed the general feeling that he's not a positive contributor. To date, Belt has 112 HR's, 413 RBI, and one All-Star appearance. I just have mixed feelings.

Here are some interesting statistical comparisons for three Giants who played the corners within my fan memory (and certainly within Bob's...):

Player #1: Career OPS .792; Season stats for 4 seasons from age 27-30: WAR (7.2, 3.1, -0.1/0.3, 1.4), Batting Ave. (.240, .243, .205, .254), RBI (79, 73, 46, 72). Note that the split WAR represents a year in which the player was traded midseason.

Player #2: Career OPS .784; Season stats for 4 seasons from age 27-30: WAR (1.1, -0.7, 2.9, 0.7), Batting Ave. (.289, .257, .281 .248) RBI (102, 67, 104, 79).

Player #3: Career OPS .880, Season stats for 4 seasons from age 27-30 WAR (5.2, 3.8, 1.5, 3.6), Batting Ave. (.301, .300, .283, .329) RBI (116, 73, 73, 80)

Before reading further, can you guess the names of players #1, 2, and 3, and how would you feel about the relative 'worth' of each player at a corner position based solely on numbers? Would you keep that player long-term and see how his age 31-36 seasons played out? And, how would you rank Belt within this grouping of 4 players? Answers are below the asterisks...

*
*
*

Player #1 is Darrell Evans. Other career stats of note: 414 HR's, 1354 RBI, 1605 walks, and .248 batting average. A 2-time All-Star. Leaving the 'Stick was great for Evans' career and included three great seasons with the Tigers with 40, 29, and 34 home runs during his age 38-40 seasons. Keeping Evans and moving him permanently to 1B would have prevented the Al Oliver, Dan Driessen, Rick Lancellotti era.

Player #3 is probably an easy guess. Will the Thrill. Career stats: 284 HR's, 1205 RBI, 937 walks, and .303 Batting Ave. 6-time All-Star. Declining power production and a couple of injuries lessened his longer-term career impact, although a career 56.5 WAR is nothing to sneeze at. (But, I didn't realize until looking this up that Evans' career WAR is higher at 58.8). Clark's post age-30 career was certainly significantly better than what the Giants go out of moving Rich Aurilia to 1B.

Player #2 is long-time fan favorite JT Snow. Career stats: 189 HR, 877 RBI, 760 walks, and .268 Batting Ave. No All-Star picks. Career WAR of 11.0. He had essentially two more great years after age 30 and then his offensive production fell off the cliff. A great glove at 1B. 

The list of Giants first basemen since McCovey is not a distinguished list other than Clark. Belt seems to slot in second place behind Clark since Evans played more 3B than 1B until he left for the Tigers. But doesn't Belt's career trajectory looks better than Snow (if not his defense)? Is there anyone else since McCovey left for San Diego who's had a 4-year stretch better than Belt other than the Thrill? Or even a 3-year stretch? Let's not forget that we've endured Rick Lancellotti, JR Phillips, and Willie Montanez...

I do acknowledge that the 17M contract skews my thinking about Belt a lot. As a hitter, he's actually a lot like Evans but without the HR power. Irritatingly patient, willing to take the walk. But his batting value seems lower than Evans because of the lack of HR production and not driving in enough runs. But honestly pretty distinguished at 1B for the post-McCovey era...

[BobK]

I posted on WVB few cared.  Now lets ban Giant talk until June something.   
Sorry for posting, I'll ask first.  Oh wait people are posting to the tread.   Wait need more cartoons.
I was about to post on XC, but not good I gather.

And now I can't post here on my phone.   Fun so fun.

[BobK]

I posted on WVB few cared.  Now lets ban Giant talk until June something.   
Sorry for posting, I'll ask first.  Oh wait people are posting to the tread.   Wait need more cartoons.
I was about to post on XC, but not good I gather.

And now I can't post here on my phone.   Fun so fun.

[qwerty49]

Can I make a modest proposal...

Now that fall Stanford sports have started and football is four days away, can I ask that the Giants threads go on a temporary hiatus on this board (at least until something significant happens or until the end of Spring sports)?

BC

I second this! +1

The mods have discussed quietly merging newly started Giants threads into existing ones, to keep the number down. I don't think we should ban them entirely since some of our members really seem to enjoy discussing the Giants here.

I wasn't suggesting a ban, just a temporary hiatus, and nothing formal.  It was more a request that the frequent Giants posters be a bit more selective about when they post about the Giants, at least until the next Stanford athletics lull.

BC

Respectfully, to use a baseball term, I think you folks are a bit off-base on this one, and the tone borders on being a touch arrogant, which as an outsider I can say does tend to be a subtle undercurrent on this board at times.  Because we don't seem to have the "insider" pipeline other boards might have, there's very little to say here about Stanford football until we actually see what's going on and who's doing what, --- and that day will come soon enough this Friday.  

And as BobK pointed out, he posts about #1-ranked WVB and many other sports, and way fewer people respond than on the Giants' threads.

I grew up in the Bay Area, have two Stanford degrees, have held season FB tix for 45 years that I travel 800 miles back and forth to use and gosh, I even went to a high school whose mascot, colors and fight song were the same as Stanford's.  But I was a Giants fan way before I even heard of Stanford.  And Stanford fans who have been through the Bad Old Days should be the first to understand how Giants fans can get excited given the historically heartbreaking performance of the Orange and Black.

If folks want to bury the Giants threads, then they should post more meaningful content about Stanford, and nature will take its course, and everybody will be happy.  Don't blame Giants fans because there's not much new to discuss about Stanford at this point.

---

Would love, just rejoice if Belt were traded, but $ 17M next three years.   

The evident discord over Belt's career to date is really fascinating. I've concluded that my feelings about him are influenced more by how his salary prevents the team from other upgrades than I am about his actual play. I'm not sure what to make of his stats (some modern metrics seem to support those that say "he's a better player than you think"), e.g. career OPS .816, WAR for his age 27-30 seasons 3.7, 4.6, 3.0, 2.4 (to date), but there's less support with traditional stats like batting average over that same period: .280, .275, .241, .268, and RBI's: 68, 82, 51, 44. Belt isn't particularly a fan favorite and many on this board have expressed the general feeling that he's not a positive contributor. To date, Belt has 112 HR's, 413 RBI, and one All-Star appearance. I just have mixed feelings.

Here are some interesting statistical comparisons for three Giants who played the corners within my fan memory (and certainly within Bob's...):

Player #1: Career OPS .792; Season stats for 4 seasons from age 27-30: WAR (7.2, 3.1, -0.1/0.3, 1.4), Batting Ave. (.240, .243, .205, .254), RBI (79, 73, 46, 72). Note that the split WAR represents a year in which the player was traded midseason.

Player #2: Career OPS .784; Season stats for 4 seasons from age 27-30: WAR (1.1, -0.7, 2.9, 0.7), Batting Ave. (.289, .257, .281 .248) RBI (102, 67, 104, 79).

Player #3: Career OPS .880, Season stats for 4 seasons from age 27-30 WAR (5.2, 3.8, 1.5, 3.6), Batting Ave. (.301, .300, .283, .329) RBI (116, 73, 73, 80)

Before reading further, can you guess the names of players #1, 2, and 3, and how would you feel about the relative 'worth' of each player at a corner position based solely on numbers? Would you keep that player long-term and see how his age 31-36 seasons played out? And, how would you rank Belt within this grouping of 4 players? Answers are below the asterisks...

*
*
*

Player #1 is Darrell Evans. Other career stats of note: 414 HR's, 1354 RBI, 1605 walks, and .248 batting average. A 2-time All-Star. Leaving the 'Stick was great for Evans' career and included three great seasons with the Tigers with 40, 29, and 34 home runs during his age 38-40 seasons. Keeping Evans and moving him permanently to 1B would have prevented the Al Oliver, Dan Driessen, Rick Lancellotti era.

Player #3 is probably an easy guess. Will the Thrill. Career stats: 284 HR's, 1205 RBI, 937 walks, and .303 Batting Ave. 6-time All-Star. Declining power production and a couple of injuries lessened his longer-term career impact, although a career 56.5 WAR is nothing to sneeze at. (But, I didn't realize until looking this up that Evans' career WAR is higher at 58.8). Clark's post age-30 career was certainly significantly better than what the Giants go out of moving Rich Aurilia to 1B.

Player #2 is long-time fan favorite JT Snow. Career stats: 189 HR, 877 RBI, 760 walks, and .268 Batting Ave. No All-Star picks. Career WAR of 11.0. He had essentially two more great years after age 30 and then his offensive production fell off the cliff. A great glove at 1B. 

The list of Giants first basemen since McCovey is not a distinguished list other than Clark. Belt seems to slot in second place behind Clark since Evans played more 3B than 1B until he left for the Tigers. But doesn't Belt's career trajectory looks better than Snow (if not his defense)? Is there anyone else since McCovey left for San Diego who's had a 4-year stretch better than Belt other than the Thrill? Or even a 3-year stretch? Let's not forget that we've endured Rick Lancellotti, JR Phillips, and Willie Montanez...

I do acknowledge that the 17M contract skews my thinking about Belt a lot. As a hitter, he's actually a lot like Evans but without the HR power. Irritatingly patient, willing to take the walk. But his batting value seems lower than Evans because of the lack of HR production and not driving in enough runs. But honestly pretty distinguished at 1B for the post-McCovey era...

Thanks Triangle for a very interesting comparison.  Subjectively, I would agree that Belt is a clear #2 to Clark on the 1B ladder, and probably right with Evans and Snow in that second tier.  The interesting comparison starting next year would be Posey at 1B, since we know his catching days will only decline over time.

My subjective take is that Belt's main shortcoming is I think he does everything in the zone between average and slightly above average, i.e. between a 5 and 7 on a ten-point scale for offense, i.e. power, hitting for average, driving in runs.  His OBP might be 7-8 but it's also negated somewhat by his lack of foot speed.  So all that, when put against $17M, indicates mediocre bang for the buck.

[qwerty49]

Can I make a modest proposal...

Now that fall Stanford sports have started and football is four days away, can I ask that the Giants threads go on a temporary hiatus on this board (at least until something significant happens or until the end of Spring sports)?

BC

I second this! +1

The mods have discussed quietly merging newly started Giants threads into existing ones, to keep the number down. I don't think we should ban them entirely since some of our members really seem to enjoy discussing the Giants here.

I wasn't suggesting a ban, just a temporary hiatus, and nothing formal.  It was more a request that the frequent Giants posters be a bit more selective about when they post about the Giants, at least until the next Stanford athletics lull.

BC

Respectfully, to use a baseball term, I think you folks are a bit off-base on this one, and the tone borders on being a touch arrogant, which as an outsider I can say does tend to be a subtle undercurrent on this board at times.  Because we don't seem to have the "insider" pipeline other boards might have, there's very little to say here about Stanford football until we actually see what's going on and who's doing what, --- and that day will come soon enough this Friday.  

And as BobK pointed out, he posts about #1-ranked WVB and many other sports, and way fewer people respond than on the Giants' threads.

I grew up in the Bay Area, have two Stanford degrees, have held season FB tix for 45 years that I travel 800 miles back and forth to use and gosh, I even went to a high school whose mascot, colors and fight song were the same as Stanford's.  But I was a Giants fan way before I even heard of Stanford.  And Stanford fans who have been through the Bad Old Days should be the first to understand how Giants fans can get excited given the historically heartbreaking performance of the Orange and Black.

If folks want to bury the Giants threads, then they should post more meaningful content about Stanford, and nature will take its course, and everybody will be happy.  Don't blame Giants fans because there's not much new to discuss about Stanford at this point.

---

Would love, just rejoice if Belt were traded, but $ 17M next three years.   

The evident discord over Belt's career to date is really fascinating. I've concluded that my feelings about him are influenced more by how his salary prevents the team from other upgrades than I am about his actual play. I'm not sure what to make of his stats (some modern metrics seem to support those that say "he's a better player than you think"), e.g. career OPS .816, WAR for his age 27-30 seasons 3.7, 4.6, 3.0, 2.4 (to date), but there's less support with traditional stats like batting average over that same period: .280, .275, .241, .268, and RBI's: 68, 82, 51, 44. Belt isn't particularly a fan favorite and many on this board have expressed the general feeling that he's not a positive contributor. To date, Belt has 112 HR's, 413 RBI, and one All-Star appearance. I just have mixed feelings.

Here are some interesting statistical comparisons for three Giants who played the corners within my fan memory (and certainly within Bob's...):

Player #1: Career OPS .792; Season stats for 4 seasons from age 27-30: WAR (7.2, 3.1, -0.1/0.3, 1.4), Batting Ave. (.240, .243, .205, .254), RBI (79, 73, 46, 72). Note that the split WAR represents a year in which the player was traded midseason.

Player #2: Career OPS .784; Season stats for 4 seasons from age 27-30: WAR (1.1, -0.7, 2.9, 0.7), Batting Ave. (.289, .257, .281 .248) RBI (102, 67, 104, 79).

Player #3: Career OPS .880, Season stats for 4 seasons from age 27-30 WAR (5.2, 3.8, 1.5, 3.6), Batting Ave. (.301, .300, .283, .329) RBI (116, 73, 73, 80)

Before reading further, can you guess the names of players #1, 2, and 3, and how would you feel about the relative 'worth' of each player at a corner position based solely on numbers? Would you keep that player long-term and see how his age 31-36 seasons played out? And, how would you rank Belt within this grouping of 4 players? Answers are below the asterisks...

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Player #1 is Darrell Evans. Other career stats of note: 414 HR's, 1354 RBI, 1605 walks, and .248 batting average. A 2-time All-Star. Leaving the 'Stick was great for Evans' career and included three great seasons with the Tigers with 40, 29, and 34 home runs during his age 38-40 seasons. Keeping Evans and moving him permanently to 1B would have prevented the Al Oliver, Dan Driessen, Rick Lancellotti era.

Player #3 is probably an easy guess. Will the Thrill. Career stats: 284 HR's, 1205 RBI, 937 walks, and .303 Batting Ave. 6-time All-Star. Declining power production and a couple of injuries lessened his longer-term career impact, although a career 56.5 WAR is nothing to sneeze at. (But, I didn't realize until looking this up that Evans' career WAR is higher at 58.8). Clark's post age-30 career was certainly significantly better than what the Giants go out of moving Rich Aurilia to 1B.

Player #2 is long-time fan favorite JT Snow. Career stats: 189 HR, 877 RBI, 760 walks, and .268 Batting Ave. No All-Star picks. Career WAR of 11.0. He had essentially two more great years after age 30 and then his offensive production fell off the cliff. A great glove at 1B. 

The list of Giants first basemen since McCovey is not a distinguished list other than Clark. Belt seems to slot in second place behind Clark since Evans played more 3B than 1B until he left for the Tigers. But doesn't Belt's career trajectory looks better than Snow (if not his defense)? Is there anyone else since McCovey left for San Diego who's had a 4-year stretch better than Belt other than the Thrill? Or even a 3-year stretch? Let's not forget that we've endured Rick Lancellotti, JR Phillips, and Willie Montanez...

I do acknowledge that the 17M contract skews my thinking about Belt a lot. As a hitter, he's actually a lot like Evans but without the HR power. Irritatingly patient, willing to take the walk. But his batting value seems lower than Evans because of the lack of HR production and not driving in enough runs. But honestly pretty distinguished at 1B for the post-McCovey era...

Thanks Triangle for a very interesting comparison.  Subjectively, I would agree that Belt is a clear #2 to Clark on the 1B ladder, and probably right with Evans and Snow in that second tier.  The interesting comparison starting next year would be Posey at 1B, since we know his catching days will only decline over time.

My subjective take is that Belt's main shortcoming is I think he does everything in the zone between average and slightly above average, i.e. between a 5 and 7 on a ten-point scale for offense, i.e. power, hitting for average, driving in runs.  His OBP might be 7-8 but it's also negated somewhat by his lack of foot speed.  So all that, when put against $17M, indicates mediocre bang for the buck.

[BobK]

Thanks for the support all.  Great post Triangle.   More in a bit.

[BobK]

Thanks for the support all.  Great post Triangle.   More in a bit.

[Mick]

Last night the Giants beat the Rangers 5-3.  Stanford's Austin Slater went 1 for 4 with an odd error leading to three unearned runs.  Washed up Hunter Pence hit a home run, and Posey will be out for six months with labrum surgery.

In the category of "Things I Don't Remotely Understand" is the fact that the Giants have the 16th best home ERA in all of MLB at 3.81 (and 19th best WHIP at 1.30).  Their road ERA is 11th at 4.02.  WTH?  Giants are 20th in MLB in fielding, and 28th in runs scored.  Ugly, ugly, ugly.  Can't believe they're only three games below .500.

On a lighter note, two nights ago, in the category of "Things I Have Unaccountably Enjoyed" is the sight of Hall of Famer Pudge Rodriguez whiffing on a foul ball...

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/giants...-son-mound

One bright spot is Brandon Crawford, whose range factor (basically # of chances accepted per game) tops the majors at 4.34.  League average is 3.99, so basically Crawford gets to one more ball every three games than the average shortstop.  His fielding average hasn't changed, he's been in the .970 to .975 range every year.  His season high for DPs was 2016 when he had 90, he already has 89 this year (second most in MLB).  I expect this will be his fourth Gold Glove season in a row.

And, FWLIW, the Giants won last night to pull to within a game of .500.  Austin Slater went 1 for 3 against Giant killer Patrick Corbin, and Slater's OPS is .720, better than any outfielder on the team except McCutchen.

[Mick]

Last night the Giants beat the Rangers 5-3.  Stanford's Austin Slater went 1 for 4 with an odd error leading to three unearned runs.  Washed up Hunter Pence hit a home run, and Posey will be out for six months with labrum surgery.

In the category of "Things I Don't Remotely Understand" is the fact that the Giants have the 16th best home ERA in all of MLB at 3.81 (and 19th best WHIP at 1.30).  Their road ERA is 11th at 4.02.  WTH?  Giants are 20th in MLB in fielding, and 28th in runs scored.  Ugly, ugly, ugly.  Can't believe they're only three games below .500.

On a lighter note, two nights ago, in the category of "Things I Have Unaccountably Enjoyed" is the sight of Hall of Famer Pudge Rodriguez whiffing on a foul ball...

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/giants...-son-mound

One bright spot is Brandon Crawford, whose range factor (basically # of chances accepted per game) tops the majors at 4.34.  League average is 3.99, so basically Crawford gets to one more ball every three games than the average shortstop.  His fielding average hasn't changed, he's been in the .970 to .975 range every year.  His season high for DPs was 2016 when he had 90, he already has 89 this year (second most in MLB).  I expect this will be his fourth Gold Glove season in a row.

And, FWLIW, the Giants won last night to pull to within a game of .500.  Austin Slater went 1 for 3 against Giant killer Patrick Corbin, and Slater's OPS is .720, better than any outfielder on the team except McCutchen.