[2006alum]

Seriously, would anyone be surprised to see this happen a few years from now?  It would appear both Incognito and Martin have some mental illness issues, and it seems like it might be a good idea for them to get together with mental illness doctors to share their stories and try to help each other, as they both need help.

While this may make for a good movie, this sounds like a terrible idea, IMHO. Bringing a victim and abuser together for anything other than some form of restorative justice sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.

+1. The last thing either of these two individuals needs is a spotlight cast straight at them. To be committed against your will in most states generally means you are a serious risk of harm to yourself and/or others. They need help, and the media spotlight on both of them is not going to help things at all. I recently saw the original post Martin posted on Instagram, and in light of that, coupled with him being found shortly after posting it in a car with a loaded firearm and several other weapons, makes me think the charges he faces are not inappropriate. That doesn't mean he doesn't deserve compassion, care, and assistance, but it means that this is really serious, and not fodder for a reality TV special.

Edited to add: there's a lot of speculation that Incognito may be displaying symptoms of CTE, given that some of his erratic and incoherent behavior matches known symptoms of players who were subsequently diagnosed with CTE post-mortem. If that is true, his symptoms are only going to get worse, and unfortunately he's not going to ever be in the position to be signing up to take part in a kumbaya documentary. CTE is a one-way train ticket to a living hell on earth, with no known clincally-established treatments.

[2006alum]

Seriously, would anyone be surprised to see this happen a few years from now?  It would appear both Incognito and Martin have some mental illness issues, and it seems like it might be a good idea for them to get together with mental illness doctors to share their stories and try to help each other, as they both need help.

While this may make for a good movie, this sounds like a terrible idea, IMHO. Bringing a victim and abuser together for anything other than some form of restorative justice sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.

+1. The last thing either of these two individuals needs is a spotlight cast straight at them. To be committed against your will in most states generally means you are a serious risk of harm to yourself and/or others. They need help, and the media spotlight on both of them is not going to help things at all. I recently saw the original post Martin posted on Instagram, and in light of that, coupled with him being found shortly after posting it in a car with a loaded firearm and several other weapons, makes me think the charges he faces are not inappropriate. That doesn't mean he doesn't deserve compassion, care, and assistance, but it means that this is really serious, and not fodder for a reality TV special.

Edited to add: there's a lot of speculation that Incognito may be displaying symptoms of CTE, given that some of his erratic and incoherent behavior matches known symptoms of players who were subsequently diagnosed with CTE post-mortem. If that is true, his symptoms are only going to get worse, and unfortunately he's not going to ever be in the position to be signing up to take part in a kumbaya documentary. CTE is a one-way train ticket to a living hell on earth, with no known clincally-established treatments.

[lex24]

The IG post is "making criminal threats"? Please.

Filing these types of charges against someone who is already hurting and needs help is not the way to help them.

So - forget he went to Stanford. Now put yourself in the authorities shoes.  In this day and age when shootings at schools are unfortunately as prevalent as they are, what choice did they have?  Do you want to be the one to get the call that the guy who sent these threats carried them out? I don’t think so. Frankly I’m not at all surprised and I think it’s the right course of action. Hopefully he will get some help.

[lex24]

The IG post is "making criminal threats"? Please.

Filing these types of charges against someone who is already hurting and needs help is not the way to help them.

So - forget he went to Stanford. Now put yourself in the authorities shoes.  In this day and age when shootings at schools are unfortunately as prevalent as they are, what choice did they have?  Do you want to be the one to get the call that the guy who sent these threats carried them out? I don’t think so. Frankly I’m not at all surprised and I think it’s the right course of action. Hopefully he will get some help.

[Mick]

I have been a volunteer in the drug and alcohol recovery and treatment sector in California for a dozen years or so.  I have met and talked to probably twenty people who were given a choice between jail time and 30-60 days of rehab.  Many of them have established meaningful sobriety.

It's not exactly the same as the issues with which Jonathan is coping, but it's certainly similar.  I'm sure it is case by case, and such decisions have all been issued by the judges in the cases with which I am familiar.  It would be an impressive individual who, as a prosecutor, could recommend treatment in lieu of prison.

+1.  My brother is a public defender in San Diego County.  He frequently requests rehab, and he frequently gets it with the assist of the judges and prosecutors who see a spark of possibility.

[Mick]

I have been a volunteer in the drug and alcohol recovery and treatment sector in California for a dozen years or so.  I have met and talked to probably twenty people who were given a choice between jail time and 30-60 days of rehab.  Many of them have established meaningful sobriety.

It's not exactly the same as the issues with which Jonathan is coping, but it's certainly similar.  I'm sure it is case by case, and such decisions have all been issued by the judges in the cases with which I am familiar.  It would be an impressive individual who, as a prosecutor, could recommend treatment in lieu of prison.

+1.  My brother is a public defender in San Diego County.  He frequently requests rehab, and he frequently gets it with the assist of the judges and prosecutors who see a spark of possibility.

[82lsju]

Former NFL offensive lineman Richie Incognito thought he was under surveillance by government officials when he was taken by police officers -- who believed him to be in an "altered, paranoid state," according to an incident report -- for an involuntary psychiatric evaluation Wednesday in Boca Raton, Florida.
...
When officers approached him, Incognito told them he was "running NSA class level 3 documents through my phone" and didn't have to explain himself to officers because they didn't have enough clearance, according to the incident report. When later told by officers that his behavior might pose a danger to others, Incognito asked a woman in the swimming pool to call the FBI.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/23594...e-officers

[82lsju]

Former NFL offensive lineman Richie Incognito thought he was under surveillance by government officials when he was taken by police officers -- who believed him to be in an "altered, paranoid state," according to an incident report -- for an involuntary psychiatric evaluation Wednesday in Boca Raton, Florida.
...
When officers approached him, Incognito told them he was "running NSA class level 3 documents through my phone" and didn't have to explain himself to officers because they didn't have enough clearance, according to the incident report. When later told by officers that his behavior might pose a danger to others, Incognito asked a woman in the swimming pool to call the FBI.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/23594...e-officers

[qwerty49]

When Incognito is working undercover with NSA and the FBI, is he incognito?

Did he need to wear a costume on Halloween as a kid?

Sorry, couldn't resist.....

Former NFL offensive lineman Richie Incognito thought he was under surveillance by government officials when he was taken by police officers -- who believed him to be in an "altered, paranoid state," according to an incident report -- for an involuntary psychiatric evaluation Wednesday in Boca Raton, Florida.
...
When officers approached him, Incognito told them he was "running NSA class level 3 documents through my phone" and didn't have to explain himself to officers because they didn't have enough clearance, according to the incident report. When later told by officers that his behavior might pose a danger to others, Incognito asked a woman in the swimming pool to call the FBI.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/23594...e-officers

[qwerty49]

When Incognito is working undercover with NSA and the FBI, is he incognito?

Did he need to wear a costume on Halloween as a kid?

Sorry, couldn't resist.....

Former NFL offensive lineman Richie Incognito thought he was under surveillance by government officials when he was taken by police officers -- who believed him to be in an "altered, paranoid state," according to an incident report -- for an involuntary psychiatric evaluation Wednesday in Boca Raton, Florida.
...
When officers approached him, Incognito told them he was "running NSA class level 3 documents through my phone" and didn't have to explain himself to officers because they didn't have enough clearance, according to the incident report. When later told by officers that his behavior might pose a danger to others, Incognito asked a woman in the swimming pool to call the FBI.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/23594...e-officers

[JustAnotherFan]

The IG post is "making criminal threats"? Please.

Filing these types of charges against someone who is already hurting and needs help is not the way to help them.

So - forget he went to Stanford. Now put yourself in the authorities shoes.  In this day and age when shootings at schools are unfortunately as prevalent as they are, what choice did they have?  Do you want to be the one to get the call that the guy who sent these threats carried them out? I don’t think so. Frankly I’m not at all surprised and I think it’s the right course of action. Hopefully he will get some help.

I think I made it pretty clear in my previous posts that such moves are often done for political reasons, so I agree with you that it is a CYA move to file charges as opposed to helping them, and I'll also admit that the criminal justice system does not provide even those who would want to help people many options to do so. So we will disagree as to whether it is the right course of action - with me acknowledging that it is the 'right' course of action for any prosecutor who cares about their political future.

BTW, I think people who went to Stanford (and who have other forms of privilege) are the ones who deserve the fewest favors or extra considerations. But that's not how the system works, either.

---

Former NFL offensive lineman Richie Incognito thought he was under surveillance by government officials when he was taken by police officers -- who believed him to be in an "altered, paranoid state," according to an incident report -- for an involuntary psychiatric evaluation Wednesday in Boca Raton, Florida.
...
When officers approached him, Incognito told them he was "running NSA class level 3 documents through my phone" and didn't have to explain himself to officers because they didn't have enough clearance, according to the incident report. When later told by officers that his behavior might pose a danger to others, Incognito asked a woman in the swimming pool to call the FBI.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/23594...e-officers

Wow, that is wild.

[JustAnotherFan]

The IG post is "making criminal threats"? Please.

Filing these types of charges against someone who is already hurting and needs help is not the way to help them.

So - forget he went to Stanford. Now put yourself in the authorities shoes.  In this day and age when shootings at schools are unfortunately as prevalent as they are, what choice did they have?  Do you want to be the one to get the call that the guy who sent these threats carried them out? I don’t think so. Frankly I’m not at all surprised and I think it’s the right course of action. Hopefully he will get some help.

I think I made it pretty clear in my previous posts that such moves are often done for political reasons, so I agree with you that it is a CYA move to file charges as opposed to helping them, and I'll also admit that the criminal justice system does not provide even those who would want to help people many options to do so. So we will disagree as to whether it is the right course of action - with me acknowledging that it is the 'right' course of action for any prosecutor who cares about their political future.

BTW, I think people who went to Stanford (and who have other forms of privilege) are the ones who deserve the fewest favors or extra considerations. But that's not how the system works, either.

---

Former NFL offensive lineman Richie Incognito thought he was under surveillance by government officials when he was taken by police officers -- who believed him to be in an "altered, paranoid state," according to an incident report -- for an involuntary psychiatric evaluation Wednesday in Boca Raton, Florida.
...
When officers approached him, Incognito told them he was "running NSA class level 3 documents through my phone" and didn't have to explain himself to officers because they didn't have enough clearance, according to the incident report. When later told by officers that his behavior might pose a danger to others, Incognito asked a woman in the swimming pool to call the FBI.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/23594...e-officers

Wow, that is wild.

[CardinalSagehen]

This story grows sadder and stranger with time.  Incognito was just arrested for threatening gun violence in a funeral home.  He told officers that he had a pile of guns in his car, and it was true.  His behavior was paranoid and deranged.  

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/24436...ng-threats

[CardinalSagehen]

This story grows sadder and stranger with time.  Incognito was just arrested for threatening gun violence in a funeral home.  He told officers that he had a pile of guns in his car, and it was true.  His behavior was paranoid and deranged.  

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/24436...ng-threats

[martyup]

This story grows sadder and stranger with time.  Incognito was just arrested for threatening gun violence in a funeral home.  He told officers that he had a pile of guns in his car, and it was true.  His behavior was paranoid and deranged.  

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/24436...ng-threats

It becomes more and more clear why Incognito's bullying affected Martin so profoundly.  Martin was not paranoid, the threat was real.  This Incognito psycho is scary.  It also becomes more clear that the Dolphins were negligent in managing the situation.

[martyup]

This story grows sadder and stranger with time.  Incognito was just arrested for threatening gun violence in a funeral home.  He told officers that he had a pile of guns in his car, and it was true.  His behavior was paranoid and deranged.  

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/24436...ng-threats

It becomes more and more clear why Incognito's bullying affected Martin so profoundly.  Martin was not paranoid, the threat was real.  This Incognito psycho is scary.  It also becomes more clear that the Dolphins were negligent in managing the situation.

[2006alum]

This story grows sadder and stranger with time.  Incognito was just arrested for threatening gun violence in a funeral home.  He told officers that he had a pile of guns in his car, and it was true.  His behavior was paranoid and deranged.  

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/24436...ng-threats

Or, more likely, they both have been and are suffering from symptoms of CTE. I know I sound like the squawking and unpopular canary in the coalmine that no football fan wants to listen to, but all of these incidents are eerily reminiscent of prior (now-deceased) former players' actions that were explained, post-mortem, as mid-to-advanced stage CTE. This sport has a serious problem, and it's only a matter of time before there's a #metoo equivalent moment of reckoning that will force everyone to stop and take stock. I hate to say it, but one day one of these Martin/Incognito/someone else situations actually will turn into a massively fatal encounter, and the collateral damage will be too great for everyone to politely look away.

[2006alum]

This story grows sadder and stranger with time.  Incognito was just arrested for threatening gun violence in a funeral home.  He told officers that he had a pile of guns in his car, and it was true.  His behavior was paranoid and deranged.  

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/24436...ng-threats

Or, more likely, they both have been and are suffering from symptoms of CTE. I know I sound like the squawking and unpopular canary in the coalmine that no football fan wants to listen to, but all of these incidents are eerily reminiscent of prior (now-deceased) former players' actions that were explained, post-mortem, as mid-to-advanced stage CTE. This sport has a serious problem, and it's only a matter of time before there's a #metoo equivalent moment of reckoning that will force everyone to stop and take stock. I hate to say it, but one day one of these Martin/Incognito/someone else situations actually will turn into a massively fatal encounter, and the collateral damage will be too great for everyone to politely look away.

[Hurlburt88]

A chilling thought that had not occurred to me . . .

[Hurlburt88]

A chilling thought that had not occurred to me . . .

[Mick]

This story grows sadder and stranger with time.  Incognito was just arrested for threatening gun violence in a funeral home.  He told officers that he had a pile of guns in his car, and it was true.  His behavior was paranoid and deranged.  

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/24436...ng-threats

Or, more likely, they both have been and are suffering from symptoms of CTE. I know I sound like the squawking and unpopular canary in the coalmine that no football fan wants to listen to, but all of these incidents are eerily reminiscent of prior (now-deceased) former players' actions that were explained, post-mortem, as mid-to-advanced stage CTE. This sport has a serious problem, and it's only a matter of time before there's a #metoo equivalent moment of reckoning that will force everyone to stop and take stock. I hate to say it, but one day one of these Martin/Incognito/someone else situations actually will turn into a massively fatal encounter, and the collateral damage will be too great for everyone to politely look away.

I only played two years of bad high school football, and I took three shots to the head that affected me somewhat profoundly.  I couldn't even imagine what the effect would be from a much greater number of hits with much more force and much more speed behind them.

[Mick]

This story grows sadder and stranger with time.  Incognito was just arrested for threatening gun violence in a funeral home.  He told officers that he had a pile of guns in his car, and it was true.  His behavior was paranoid and deranged.  

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/24436...ng-threats

Or, more likely, they both have been and are suffering from symptoms of CTE. I know I sound like the squawking and unpopular canary in the coalmine that no football fan wants to listen to, but all of these incidents are eerily reminiscent of prior (now-deceased) former players' actions that were explained, post-mortem, as mid-to-advanced stage CTE. This sport has a serious problem, and it's only a matter of time before there's a #metoo equivalent moment of reckoning that will force everyone to stop and take stock. I hate to say it, but one day one of these Martin/Incognito/someone else situations actually will turn into a massively fatal encounter, and the collateral damage will be too great for everyone to politely look away.

I only played two years of bad high school football, and I took three shots to the head that affected me somewhat profoundly.  I couldn't even imagine what the effect would be from a much greater number of hits with much more force and much more speed behind them.

[BostonCard]

This story grows sadder and stranger with time.  Incognito was just arrested for threatening gun violence in a funeral home.  He told officers that he had a pile of guns in his car, and it was true.  His behavior was paranoid and deranged.  

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/24436...ng-threats

Or, more likely, they both have been and are suffering from symptoms of CTE. I know I sound like the squawking and unpopular canary in the coalmine that no football fan wants to listen to, but all of these incidents are eerily reminiscent of prior (now-deceased) former players' actions that were explained, post-mortem, as mid-to-advanced stage CTE. This sport has a serious problem, and it's only a matter of time before there's a #metoo equivalent moment of reckoning that will force everyone to stop and take stock. I hate to say it, but one day one of these Martin/Incognito/someone else situations actually will turn into a massively fatal encounter, and the collateral damage will be too great for everyone to politely look away.

I can't speak for Incognito, but Martin has talked about having had anxiety and depression since high school.  Of course, that could of course be exacerbated by CTE, and it is possible that outside playing football it would have been easily manageable.  But it is also possible that this would have happened to him regardless.

BC

[BostonCard]

This story grows sadder and stranger with time.  Incognito was just arrested for threatening gun violence in a funeral home.  He told officers that he had a pile of guns in his car, and it was true.  His behavior was paranoid and deranged.  

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/24436...ng-threats

Or, more likely, they both have been and are suffering from symptoms of CTE. I know I sound like the squawking and unpopular canary in the coalmine that no football fan wants to listen to, but all of these incidents are eerily reminiscent of prior (now-deceased) former players' actions that were explained, post-mortem, as mid-to-advanced stage CTE. This sport has a serious problem, and it's only a matter of time before there's a #metoo equivalent moment of reckoning that will force everyone to stop and take stock. I hate to say it, but one day one of these Martin/Incognito/someone else situations actually will turn into a massively fatal encounter, and the collateral damage will be too great for everyone to politely look away.

I can't speak for Incognito, but Martin has talked about having had anxiety and depression since high school.  Of course, that could of course be exacerbated by CTE, and it is possible that outside playing football it would have been easily manageable.  But it is also possible that this would have happened to him regardless.

BC

[2006alum]

I can't speak for Incognito, but Martin has talked about having had anxiety and depression since high school.  Of course, that could of course be exacerbated by CTE, and it is possible that outside playing football it would have been easily manageable.  But it is also possible that this would have happened to him regardless.

BC

Totally possible. I was mostly just struck by how much both Incognito's and Martin's actions resembled the stories told by the wives of older former players about the delusions, paranoia, and irrational and confrontational anger their husbands exhibited in the years leading up to their deaths, and who were subsequently identified as having advanced stage CTE. My sense is that these stories get much more news coverage in the age of social media and more advanced knowledge about CTE, but for decades current and former players have been exhibiting these kinds of dramatic symptoms/seemingly irrational outbursts.

[2006alum]

I can't speak for Incognito, but Martin has talked about having had anxiety and depression since high school.  Of course, that could of course be exacerbated by CTE, and it is possible that outside playing football it would have been easily manageable.  But it is also possible that this would have happened to him regardless.

BC

Totally possible. I was mostly just struck by how much both Incognito's and Martin's actions resembled the stories told by the wives of older former players about the delusions, paranoia, and irrational and confrontational anger their husbands exhibited in the years leading up to their deaths, and who were subsequently identified as having advanced stage CTE. My sense is that these stories get much more news coverage in the age of social media and more advanced knowledge about CTE, but for decades current and former players have been exhibiting these kinds of dramatic symptoms/seemingly irrational outbursts.

[2006alum]

Apropos of this thread, NFL Tight End Julius Thomas just announced he's retiring from the NFL in order to pursue a Ph.D. in Psychology to investigate "the effects of contact sports on brain trauma and neurobehavioral performance." He did this via a very thoughtful Players' Tribune piece y'all should check out. A number of Stanford athletes have written for the Tribune in the past (Richard Sherman, the Ertzes, Chiney Ogwumike, and Candice Wiggins all come to mind). I was really impressed by the thought he'd given to his career choice.

[2006alum]

Apropos of this thread, NFL Tight End Julius Thomas just announced he's retiring from the NFL in order to pursue a Ph.D. in Psychology to investigate "the effects of contact sports on brain trauma and neurobehavioral performance." He did this via a very thoughtful Players' Tribune piece y'all should check out. A number of Stanford athletes have written for the Tribune in the past (Richard Sherman, the Ertzes, Chiney Ogwumike, and Candice Wiggins all come to mind). I was really impressed by the thought he'd given to his career choice.