[troyc]

Are you ready for #7 Stanford's road trip to #20 Oregon? You will be after the latest TreeCast podcast! Stanford defensive backs coach Duane Akina grades his squad so far and explains the challenges Ducks QB Justin Herbert poses. And ESPN's "Stanford Steve" Coughlin breaks down his thoughts on the Cardinal, this week's game, and what to make of the state of affairs in the Pac-12 South, all as only he can. Listen and subscribe via the links below! Enjoy.

Troy C

Listen: The TreeCast: All Eyes On Eugene

Subscribe, rate, and review on iTunes: The TreeCast with Troy Clardy on iTunes

[troyc]

Are you ready for #7 Stanford's road trip to #20 Oregon? You will be after the latest TreeCast podcast! Stanford defensive backs coach Duane Akina grades his squad so far and explains the challenges Ducks QB Justin Herbert poses. And ESPN's "Stanford Steve" Coughlin breaks down his thoughts on the Cardinal, this week's game, and what to make of the state of affairs in the Pac-12 South, all as only he can. Listen and subscribe via the links below! Enjoy.

Troy C

Listen: The TreeCast: All Eyes On Eugene

Subscribe, rate, and review on iTunes: The TreeCast with Troy Clardy on iTunes

[JJJ]

I'm curious what the CARDboarders think of JJAWs (pronounced "JAWS" as per Stanford Steve) vs Arcegatron. 8)

[JJJ]

I'm curious what the CARDboarders think of JJAWs (pronounced "JAWS" as per Stanford Steve) vs Arcegatron. 8)

[winflop]

I'm good with either one

[winflop]

I'm good with either one

[donkey687]

Steve is pretty bearish on Stanford and even calls for us to lose the Axe this year in addition to losing this Saturday. He is also hypercritical of Stanford fans. His criticisms are based in reality but are still pretty harsh.

[donkey687]

Steve is pretty bearish on Stanford and even calls for us to lose the Axe this year in addition to losing this Saturday. He is also hypercritical of Stanford fans. His criticisms are based in reality but are still pretty harsh.

[Snorlax94]

Steve is pretty bearish on Stanford and even calls for us to lose the Axe this year in addition to losing this Saturday. He is also hypercritical of Stanford fans. His criticisms are based in reality but are still pretty harsh.

Well, I don't know how to respond to "Stanford" Steve's criticisms of the Stanford fan base. At one part, he calls it the worst fan base in the Pac-12, and at another point he says Stanford has the worst fan base in the nation. He doesn't elaborate or explain why. He speaks glowingly about the noise at Texas and Husky Stadium, so presumably, he's dissatisfied with the noise, and the extent to which the fan base travels to lesser bowl games.

These comments got me to look up some comparable statistics, and I was surprised to find that one could actually make the argument that Stanford has a pretty good fan base given the characteristics of the university.

I just don't think it's fair to compare Stanford's attendance to a big public university's. For example, UW has about 32,000 undergrads, or about 4.5x as many as Stanford, and UT-Austin has about 40,000, about 6x as many as Stanford. Additionally, my sense is that many Stanford alums tend to move out of the area graduation. I'll guesstimate -- let's say if you go to a local/regional public university, it's twice as likely you'll end up living within driving distance. So a place like UW or UT could have  9x - 12x as many local alums living in the area. Looking at it that way, Stanford does pretty well, considering.

Also, because Stanford is a selective private university, I'd imagine it gets less local support from non-alums than a public school. (People tend to root for the local public school). More reasonable comps to Stanford's attendance is Northwestern's and Rice's, and if you look at those, Stanford actually does pretty well. According to NCAA attendance stats for 2017, Stanford had way better attendance (47k) than Northwestern (35k) or Rice (19k) (Northwestern has slightly more undergrads, Rice has a little more than half as many). And that's before factoring in the fact that the Bay Area has many competing professional sports teams (world champion Dubs, world champion Giants, 9ers, Raiders, As, Sharks) and the fact that Rice is in Texas, which you'd think would give them an unfair advantage.

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_r...e/2017.pdf

From a quick scan, it looks like Stanford had the fourth-best attendance of all private FBS college football programs, after Notre Dame and BYU, which, I think, get a lot of local support due to their religious affiliations, and USC, which is unusually large for a private school and has 2-3 times as many students.

[Snorlax94]

Steve is pretty bearish on Stanford and even calls for us to lose the Axe this year in addition to losing this Saturday. He is also hypercritical of Stanford fans. His criticisms are based in reality but are still pretty harsh.

Well, I don't know how to respond to "Stanford" Steve's criticisms of the Stanford fan base. At one part, he calls it the worst fan base in the Pac-12, and at another point he says Stanford has the worst fan base in the nation. He doesn't elaborate or explain why. He speaks glowingly about the noise at Texas and Husky Stadium, so presumably, he's dissatisfied with the noise, and the extent to which the fan base travels to lesser bowl games.

These comments got me to look up some comparable statistics, and I was surprised to find that one could actually make the argument that Stanford has a pretty good fan base given the characteristics of the university.

I just don't think it's fair to compare Stanford's attendance to a big public university's. For example, UW has about 32,000 undergrads, or about 4.5x as many as Stanford, and UT-Austin has about 40,000, about 6x as many as Stanford. Additionally, my sense is that many Stanford alums tend to move out of the area graduation. I'll guesstimate -- let's say if you go to a local/regional public university, it's twice as likely you'll end up living within driving distance. So a place like UW or UT could have  9x - 12x as many local alums living in the area. Looking at it that way, Stanford does pretty well, considering.

Also, because Stanford is a selective private university, I'd imagine it gets less local support from non-alums than a public school. (People tend to root for the local public school). More reasonable comps to Stanford's attendance is Northwestern's and Rice's, and if you look at those, Stanford actually does pretty well. According to NCAA attendance stats for 2017, Stanford had way better attendance (47k) than Northwestern (35k) or Rice (19k) (Northwestern has slightly more undergrads, Rice has a little more than half as many). And that's before factoring in the fact that the Bay Area has many competing professional sports teams (world champion Dubs, world champion Giants, 9ers, Raiders, As, Sharks) and the fact that Rice is in Texas, which you'd think would give them an unfair advantage.

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_r...e/2017.pdf

From a quick scan, it looks like Stanford had the fourth-best attendance of all private FBS college football programs, after Notre Dame and BYU, which, I think, get a lot of local support due to their religious affiliations, and USC, which is unusually large for a private school and has 2-3 times as many students.

[81alum]

Steve is pretty bearish on Stanford and even calls for us to lose the Axe this year in addition to losing this Saturday. He is also hypercritical of Stanford fans. His criticisms are based in reality but are still pretty harsh.

Well, I don't know how to respond to "Stanford" Steve's criticisms of the Stanford fan base. At one part, he calls it the worst fan base in the Pac-12, and at another point he says Stanford has the worst fan base in the nation. He doesn't elaborate or explain why. He speaks glowingly about the noise at Texas and Husky Stadium, so presumably, he's dissatisfied with the noise, and the extent to which the fan base travels to lesser bowl games.

These comments got me to look up some comparable statistics, and I was surprised to find that one could actually make the argument that Stanford has a pretty good fan base given the characteristics of the university.

I just don't think it's fair to compare Stanford's attendance to a big public university's. For example, UW has about 32,000 undergrads, or about 4.5x as many as Stanford, and UT-Austin has about 40,000, about 6x as many as Stanford. Additionally, my sense is that many Stanford alums tend to move out of the area graduation. I'll guesstimate -- let's say if you go to a local/regional public university, it's twice as likely you'll end up living within driving distance. So a place like UW or UT could have  9x - 12x as many local alums living in the area. Looking at it that way, Stanford does pretty well, considering.

Also, because Stanford is a selective private university, I'd imagine it gets less local support from non-alums than a public school. (People tend to root for the local public school). More reasonable comps to Stanford's attendance is Northwestern's and Rice's, and if you look at those, Stanford actually does pretty well. According to NCAA attendance stats for 2017, Stanford had way better attendance (47k) than Northwestern (35k) or Rice (19k) (Northwestern has slightly more undergrads, Rice has a little more than half as many). And that's before factoring in the fact that the Bay Area has many competing professional sports teams (world champion Dubs, world champion Giants, 9ers, Raiders, As, Sharks) and the fact that Rice is in Texas, which you'd think would give them an unfair advantage.

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_r...e/2017.pdf

From a quick scan, it looks like Stanford had the fourth-best attendance of all private FBS college football programs, after Notre Dame and BYU, which, I think, get a lot of local support due to their religious affiliations, and USC, which is unusually large for a private school and has 2-3 times as many students.

Don't forget Duke.  Duke is probably the most comparable in size of the undergraduate student body, and is attempting to become an elite selective university.  It averages 27k compared with our 47k, according to that chart.

[81alum]

Steve is pretty bearish on Stanford and even calls for us to lose the Axe this year in addition to losing this Saturday. He is also hypercritical of Stanford fans. His criticisms are based in reality but are still pretty harsh.

Well, I don't know how to respond to "Stanford" Steve's criticisms of the Stanford fan base. At one part, he calls it the worst fan base in the Pac-12, and at another point he says Stanford has the worst fan base in the nation. He doesn't elaborate or explain why. He speaks glowingly about the noise at Texas and Husky Stadium, so presumably, he's dissatisfied with the noise, and the extent to which the fan base travels to lesser bowl games.

These comments got me to look up some comparable statistics, and I was surprised to find that one could actually make the argument that Stanford has a pretty good fan base given the characteristics of the university.

I just don't think it's fair to compare Stanford's attendance to a big public university's. For example, UW has about 32,000 undergrads, or about 4.5x as many as Stanford, and UT-Austin has about 40,000, about 6x as many as Stanford. Additionally, my sense is that many Stanford alums tend to move out of the area graduation. I'll guesstimate -- let's say if you go to a local/regional public university, it's twice as likely you'll end up living within driving distance. So a place like UW or UT could have  9x - 12x as many local alums living in the area. Looking at it that way, Stanford does pretty well, considering.

Also, because Stanford is a selective private university, I'd imagine it gets less local support from non-alums than a public school. (People tend to root for the local public school). More reasonable comps to Stanford's attendance is Northwestern's and Rice's, and if you look at those, Stanford actually does pretty well. According to NCAA attendance stats for 2017, Stanford had way better attendance (47k) than Northwestern (35k) or Rice (19k) (Northwestern has slightly more undergrads, Rice has a little more than half as many). And that's before factoring in the fact that the Bay Area has many competing professional sports teams (world champion Dubs, world champion Giants, 9ers, Raiders, As, Sharks) and the fact that Rice is in Texas, which you'd think would give them an unfair advantage.

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_r...e/2017.pdf

From a quick scan, it looks like Stanford had the fourth-best attendance of all private FBS college football programs, after Notre Dame and BYU, which, I think, get a lot of local support due to their religious affiliations, and USC, which is unusually large for a private school and has 2-3 times as many students.

Don't forget Duke.  Duke is probably the most comparable in size of the undergraduate student body, and is attempting to become an elite selective university.  It averages 27k compared with our 47k, according to that chart.

[Hurlburt88]

I like this analysis and agree with the estimates as directionally correct.  I disagree with Stanford Steve's hyperbole about us being the "worst", and hope that is influenced by a direct comparison of stadium noise versus our best gridiron competitors and then seasoned with a broadcaster's license to entertain.  I will also defend our fan base in terms of following other sports, such as when I'll get together with friends at a Stanford swimming or volleyball match in my region of the country.

[Hurlburt88]

I like this analysis and agree with the estimates as directionally correct.  I disagree with Stanford Steve's hyperbole about us being the "worst", and hope that is influenced by a direct comparison of stadium noise versus our best gridiron competitors and then seasoned with a broadcaster's license to entertain.  I will also defend our fan base in terms of following other sports, such as when I'll get together with friends at a Stanford swimming or volleyball match in my region of the country.

[CTcard]

He is also hypercritical of Stanford fans. His criticisms are based in reality but are still pretty harsh.

From a quick scan, it looks like Stanford had the fourth-best attendance of all private FBS college football programs, after Notre Dame and BYU, which, I think, get a lot of local support due to their religious affiliations, and USC, which is unusually large for a private school and has 2-3 times as many students.

Miami has recently passed up Stanford for fourth, making Stanford fifth among private schools on this list. 

This doesn't even get into the inherent weirdness of criticizing a fan base for being small.

[CTcard]

He is also hypercritical of Stanford fans. His criticisms are based in reality but are still pretty harsh.

From a quick scan, it looks like Stanford had the fourth-best attendance of all private FBS college football programs, after Notre Dame and BYU, which, I think, get a lot of local support due to their religious affiliations, and USC, which is unusually large for a private school and has 2-3 times as many students.

Miami has recently passed up Stanford for fourth, making Stanford fifth among private schools on this list. 

This doesn't even get into the inherent weirdness of criticizing a fan base for being small.

[81alum]

He is also hypercritical of Stanford fans. His criticisms are based in reality but are still pretty harsh.

From a quick scan, it looks like Stanford had the fourth-best attendance of all private FBS college football programs, after Notre Dame and BYU, which, I think, get a lot of local support due to their religious affiliations, and USC, which is unusually large for a private school and has 2-3 times as many students.

Miami has recently passed up Stanford for fourth, making Stanford fifth among private schools on this list. 

This doesn't even get into the inherent weirdness of criticizing a fan base for being small.

Private schools like USC or Miami are regional schools that draw overwhelmingly from their metropolitan areas and even symbolize their local communities--they have their urban areas in the name of the school.  BYU is regionally based to a certain degree as well (although becoming less so) given the regional concentration of members of the affiliated church. 

Stanford is truly unique with an alumni base scattered world wide.  Nor do get a lot of local interest, since we compete with other universities and many professional sports for that.  I'd say we do pretty well, considering, although it would be nice to see us do better yet.

[81alum]

He is also hypercritical of Stanford fans. His criticisms are based in reality but are still pretty harsh.

From a quick scan, it looks like Stanford had the fourth-best attendance of all private FBS college football programs, after Notre Dame and BYU, which, I think, get a lot of local support due to their religious affiliations, and USC, which is unusually large for a private school and has 2-3 times as many students.

Miami has recently passed up Stanford for fourth, making Stanford fifth among private schools on this list. 

This doesn't even get into the inherent weirdness of criticizing a fan base for being small.

Private schools like USC or Miami are regional schools that draw overwhelmingly from their metropolitan areas and even symbolize their local communities--they have their urban areas in the name of the school.  BYU is regionally based to a certain degree as well (although becoming less so) given the regional concentration of members of the affiliated church. 

Stanford is truly unique with an alumni base scattered world wide.  Nor do get a lot of local interest, since we compete with other universities and many professional sports for that.  I'd say we do pretty well, considering, although it would be nice to see us do better yet.

[ChicagoCard]

Out of curiosity, did Stanford Steve (Coughlin?) go to Stanford? During the JH years? He comes across as a pretty cookie-cutter variety ESPN windbag. Does the ESPN marketing dept dictate that? Seriously, they all pretty much sound the same.

[ChicagoCard]

Out of curiosity, did Stanford Steve (Coughlin?) go to Stanford? During the JH years? He comes across as a pretty cookie-cutter variety ESPN windbag. Does the ESPN marketing dept dictate that? Seriously, they all pretty much sound the same.

[donkey687]

He is also hypercritical of Stanford fans. His criticisms are based in reality but are still pretty harsh.

From a quick scan, it looks like Stanford had the fourth-best attendance of all private FBS college football programs, after Notre Dame and BYU, which, I think, get a lot of local support due to their religious affiliations, and USC, which is unusually large for a private school and has 2-3 times as many students.

Miami has recently passed up Stanford for fourth, making Stanford fifth among private schools on this list. 

This doesn't even get into the inherent weirdness of criticizing a fan base for being small.

Private schools like USC or Miami are regional schools that draw overwhelmingly from their metropolitan areas and even symbolize their local communities--they have their urban areas in the name of the school.  BYU is regionally based to a certain degree as well (although becoming less so) given the regional concentration of members of the affiliated church. 

Stanford is truly unique with an alumni base scattered world wide.  Nor do get a lot of local interest, since we compete with other universities and many professional sports for that.  I'd say we do pretty well, considering, although it would be nice to see us do better yet.

I once looked at college football attendance as a percentage of living undergraduate alumni, and I believe that Stanford was #2 in the country behind Notre Dame and Notre Dame has an entire religion behind them.

Steve did go to Stanford and played TE during the Todd Husak era.

[donkey687]

He is also hypercritical of Stanford fans. His criticisms are based in reality but are still pretty harsh.

From a quick scan, it looks like Stanford had the fourth-best attendance of all private FBS college football programs, after Notre Dame and BYU, which, I think, get a lot of local support due to their religious affiliations, and USC, which is unusually large for a private school and has 2-3 times as many students.

Miami has recently passed up Stanford for fourth, making Stanford fifth among private schools on this list. 

This doesn't even get into the inherent weirdness of criticizing a fan base for being small.

Private schools like USC or Miami are regional schools that draw overwhelmingly from their metropolitan areas and even symbolize their local communities--they have their urban areas in the name of the school.  BYU is regionally based to a certain degree as well (although becoming less so) given the regional concentration of members of the affiliated church. 

Stanford is truly unique with an alumni base scattered world wide.  Nor do get a lot of local interest, since we compete with other universities and many professional sports for that.  I'd say we do pretty well, considering, although it would be nice to see us do better yet.

I once looked at college football attendance as a percentage of living undergraduate alumni, and I believe that Stanford was #2 in the country behind Notre Dame and Notre Dame has an entire religion behind them.

Steve did go to Stanford and played TE during the Todd Husak era.

[ChicagoCard]

Thanks Troy.

[ChicagoCard]

Thanks Troy.

[winflop]

Out of curiosity, did Stanford Steve (Coughlin?) go to Stanford? During the JH years? He comes across as a pretty cookie-cutter variety ESPN windbag. Does the ESPN marketing dept dictate that? Seriously, they all pretty much sound the same.

He played TE in the late 90s under Willingham https://gostanford.com/sports/2013/4/17/208440440.aspx

I don't agree with his perspective at all, and it's backed up by the facts above. We are never going to match up with a large public university in terms of scale, hype, etc. We just keep doing what we do.

We are not going to lose the Axe this year. Kal ain't that good, and my guess is that as soon as they come close to being that good Wilcox will leave for a better job.

[winflop]

Out of curiosity, did Stanford Steve (Coughlin?) go to Stanford? During the JH years? He comes across as a pretty cookie-cutter variety ESPN windbag. Does the ESPN marketing dept dictate that? Seriously, they all pretty much sound the same.

He played TE in the late 90s under Willingham https://gostanford.com/sports/2013/4/17/208440440.aspx

I don't agree with his perspective at all, and it's backed up by the facts above. We are never going to match up with a large public university in terms of scale, hype, etc. We just keep doing what we do.

We are not going to lose the Axe this year. Kal ain't that good, and my guess is that as soon as they come close to being that good Wilcox will leave for a better job.

[oman]

We're snots.

Hardly anybody likes snots.

[oman]

We're snots.

Hardly anybody likes snots.

[CardinalSagehen]

We're snots.

Hardly anybody likes snots.

As a non-alum that has known dozens of Stanford friends and colleagues over the years, I can say that you are not snots.  At least not all of you. ;-)  

But I do think that you're making a good point.  I've been a lifelong Stanford fan.  When I wear a Stanford cap or T-Shirt, I have to admit feeling slightly like a poser.  It's as if I'm falsely trying to claim the prestige. 

As others have noted, this is not the same for, say, Michigan, Texas, USC or Notre Dame.  For those schools, you just have to be from the place, or Irish or Catholic as the case may be.

[CardinalSagehen]

We're snots.

Hardly anybody likes snots.

As a non-alum that has known dozens of Stanford friends and colleagues over the years, I can say that you are not snots.  At least not all of you. ;-)  

But I do think that you're making a good point.  I've been a lifelong Stanford fan.  When I wear a Stanford cap or T-Shirt, I have to admit feeling slightly like a poser.  It's as if I'm falsely trying to claim the prestige. 

As others have noted, this is not the same for, say, Michigan, Texas, USC or Notre Dame.  For those schools, you just have to be from the place, or Irish or Catholic as the case may be.

[murky]

I think its fair to say a fanbase sucks without qualifying that with the rationalizations for why its to be expected.

[murky]

I think its fair to say a fanbase sucks without qualifying that with the rationalizations for why its to be expected.

[qwerty49]

Out of curiosity, did Stanford Steve (Coughlin?) go to Stanford? During the JH years? He comes across as a pretty cookie-cutter variety ESPN windbag. Does the ESPN marketing dept dictate that? Seriously, they all pretty much sound the same.

IIRC he was the #1 rated TE in the country coming out of HS.  I don't think he ever started at Stanford.  I don't really remember him being on the 2-deep.

[qwerty49]

Out of curiosity, did Stanford Steve (Coughlin?) go to Stanford? During the JH years? He comes across as a pretty cookie-cutter variety ESPN windbag. Does the ESPN marketing dept dictate that? Seriously, they all pretty much sound the same.

IIRC he was the #1 rated TE in the country coming out of HS.  I don't think he ever started at Stanford.  I don't really remember him being on the 2-deep.