[81alum]

Some of the doom and gloom is premature.  Shaw deserves a chance to work us into a better place this season.  He has shown the ability to change--just last year, once the O-line and Love's injuries ruined the running game and cost us several games, he shifted to the air and we got back on track.  I fully expect he will shift strategies as required to maximize success with whatever handful of healthy bodies he has left.

All the criticism about whether he should shift to a spread offense or not is just silly.  There is not that much wrong with his offensive philosophy--27 points should be more than enough to win a game.  We have had excellent seasons when we averaged in the low 20s.  For that matter, we have scored more points every week than the week before.  So despite the  ridiculously thin offensive line and spate of injuries we would be fine if the defense had been up to expectations.

But the defense has not been up to expectations, as the first half today and the second half against USC demonstrated. 

Our run defense did not seem terrible until every warm blooded linebacker was injured. 

But the consistent big problem is that our corners, who were expected to be a strength of the team, have turned into glaring weaknesses.  We gave up 11.6 ypa today, we gave up 11.4 ypa last week.  Yes, that is per ATTEMPT.  Opposing coaches have spotted something terribly wrong in our secondary and are beating on it.

Now, if you were able to have any coach in the world on your team to help straighten out an underachieving secondary, who would you pick?  Duane Akina.  It may take time and therefore more losses, but they will get better.  Hopefully it happens sooner rather than later.

Don't recall seeing any safety help over the top today. At all.

Yes, the safeties have been weak, but we all knew that going into the season.  But we expected the corners to be lock-down. 
https://www.sfchronicle.com/collegesport...371141.php
But while Adebo is acrobatic and has good hands, he does not appear to have the speed to keep up with elite receivers such as USC and UCF have.  He also takes risks going for interceptions which makes him grossly vulnerable to double moves.  And even after being burned he did it over and over again.  In short, the secondary is failing for more reasons that just lack of talent at safety.  The two could also be related.  Adebo perhaps has been able to play aggressively in the past because he had more competent safeties behind him.  But one way or the other, our defense seems utterly unable to handle any accurate quarterback.

When do we get to a merely "good" quarterback rather than hitting such a row of precision machines?  Hard to believe that Herbert will be a step down from the last two.

[81alum]

Some of the doom and gloom is premature.  Shaw deserves a chance to work us into a better place this season.  He has shown the ability to change--just last year, once the O-line and Love's injuries ruined the running game and cost us several games, he shifted to the air and we got back on track.  I fully expect he will shift strategies as required to maximize success with whatever handful of healthy bodies he has left.

All the criticism about whether he should shift to a spread offense or not is just silly.  There is not that much wrong with his offensive philosophy--27 points should be more than enough to win a game.  We have had excellent seasons when we averaged in the low 20s.  For that matter, we have scored more points every week than the week before.  So despite the  ridiculously thin offensive line and spate of injuries we would be fine if the defense had been up to expectations.

But the defense has not been up to expectations, as the first half today and the second half against USC demonstrated. 

Our run defense did not seem terrible until every warm blooded linebacker was injured. 

But the consistent big problem is that our corners, who were expected to be a strength of the team, have turned into glaring weaknesses.  We gave up 11.6 ypa today, we gave up 11.4 ypa last week.  Yes, that is per ATTEMPT.  Opposing coaches have spotted something terribly wrong in our secondary and are beating on it.

Now, if you were able to have any coach in the world on your team to help straighten out an underachieving secondary, who would you pick?  Duane Akina.  It may take time and therefore more losses, but they will get better.  Hopefully it happens sooner rather than later.

Don't recall seeing any safety help over the top today. At all.

Yes, the safeties have been weak, but we all knew that going into the season.  But we expected the corners to be lock-down. 
https://www.sfchronicle.com/collegesport...371141.php
But while Adebo is acrobatic and has good hands, he does not appear to have the speed to keep up with elite receivers such as USC and UCF have.  He also takes risks going for interceptions which makes him grossly vulnerable to double moves.  And even after being burned he did it over and over again.  In short, the secondary is failing for more reasons that just lack of talent at safety.  The two could also be related.  Adebo perhaps has been able to play aggressively in the past because he had more competent safeties behind him.  But one way or the other, our defense seems utterly unable to handle any accurate quarterback.

When do we get to a merely "good" quarterback rather than hitting such a row of precision machines?  Hard to believe that Herbert will be a step down from the last two.

[pcgoode]

BC, you seem to be saying that I don’t think Shaw can mix up his play calling. Of course he can. I am talking about identity and scheme on offense. 

I am not convinced at this stage that he sees that the game has changed fundamentally, and that what worked five years ago isn’t going to deliver PAC 12 Championships anymore.

That's  an odd quote, because we are not doing what worked 5 years ago.  I posted earlier that we never run power.  Today we had 23 rushes and 49 passing attempts.  Now you might say that we were down early.  But our first drive was two passes and one rush.  Our second drive was three passes.  Our third drive was 1 rush and two passes.  Our touchdown drive was three passes and three rushes.  In 2014 we had 381 pass attempts and 477 rushes.

And maybe, as Lex points out, that's the problem.  We had a formula that worked for us.  It gave us an identity.  It allowed us to recruit players who might not be valued by schools focused on tempo or air raids who might be a good fit for our system.  It allowed us to chew up clock and keep our defense rested.  Maybe it wasn't fun, but it seemed to work for many years.

What I'm not sure of is whether our move away from that is a cause or effect of our declining offense.  Last year, it seemed like Shaw still wanted to run the ball, until it became clear that not only were we not good at it, but we were actually terrible at running the football, and decent at throwing the ball.  So I think Shaw was adapting to the circumstances and changing our character out of necessity.  The problem is that we aren't a great passing team either.  So we seem to be throwing a bunch of crap up to see if anything sticks.

I really wish I had an answer here.  Unlike the Teevens/Harris days, when the talent was so bad that it didn't matter what the hell we did, we would suck at it (for all the complaints of "shotgun draw", I don't think much else would have worked any better), I do think we have the talent on offense to be better.  Costello has been talked about as an NFL quality player (even if he didn't show it today).  Parkinson is an NFL quality player. We have receivers who I think could be good; they show flashes.  The offensive line is a mess physically, but as others point out, it was serviceable today, considering.  So, I think the pieces are there for success on offense, but I think we are going to need to find our way.  The efficiency just isn't there, and I don't know if it is scheme (but if not this, what?) or coaching the players to play as a unit (the old whole < sum of its parts) or player development or what.

But I think it is facile to say Shaw hasn't changed his approach from 5 years ago, because what we actually see on the field is like night and day from 5 years ago.  I just don't know if that is part of the problem, or a futile attempt at a solution.

BC

[pcgoode]

BC, you seem to be saying that I don’t think Shaw can mix up his play calling. Of course he can. I am talking about identity and scheme on offense. 

I am not convinced at this stage that he sees that the game has changed fundamentally, and that what worked five years ago isn’t going to deliver PAC 12 Championships anymore.

That's  an odd quote, because we are not doing what worked 5 years ago.  I posted earlier that we never run power.  Today we had 23 rushes and 49 passing attempts.  Now you might say that we were down early.  But our first drive was two passes and one rush.  Our second drive was three passes.  Our third drive was 1 rush and two passes.  Our touchdown drive was three passes and three rushes.  In 2014 we had 381 pass attempts and 477 rushes.

And maybe, as Lex points out, that's the problem.  We had a formula that worked for us.  It gave us an identity.  It allowed us to recruit players who might not be valued by schools focused on tempo or air raids who might be a good fit for our system.  It allowed us to chew up clock and keep our defense rested.  Maybe it wasn't fun, but it seemed to work for many years.

What I'm not sure of is whether our move away from that is a cause or effect of our declining offense.  Last year, it seemed like Shaw still wanted to run the ball, until it became clear that not only were we not good at it, but we were actually terrible at running the football, and decent at throwing the ball.  So I think Shaw was adapting to the circumstances and changing our character out of necessity.  The problem is that we aren't a great passing team either.  So we seem to be throwing a bunch of crap up to see if anything sticks.

I really wish I had an answer here.  Unlike the Teevens/Harris days, when the talent was so bad that it didn't matter what the hell we did, we would suck at it (for all the complaints of "shotgun draw", I don't think much else would have worked any better), I do think we have the talent on offense to be better.  Costello has been talked about as an NFL quality player (even if he didn't show it today).  Parkinson is an NFL quality player. We have receivers who I think could be good; they show flashes.  The offensive line is a mess physically, but as others point out, it was serviceable today, considering.  So, I think the pieces are there for success on offense, but I think we are going to need to find our way.  The efficiency just isn't there, and I don't know if it is scheme (but if not this, what?) or coaching the players to play as a unit (the old whole < sum of its parts) or player development or what.

But I think it is facile to say Shaw hasn't changed his approach from 5 years ago, because what we actually see on the field is like night and day from 5 years ago.  I just don't know if that is part of the problem, or a futile attempt at a solution.

BC

[gailtate]

I have lost so much faith in Shaw and the rest of the coaching staff in the last two games. It seems like it has all come to a head this season - recruiting issues, injuries, style of offense, tackling, execution - it just seems like what used to be an excellent program has become a team with some very good pieces but one that just doesn’t deliver anymore.

I used to be a of immense proportions fan of Shaw and it pains to say what I am about to say. I wonder how much Shaw is really motivated or equipped to lead a power five team at this stage of his career. He is a great spokesperson for the program, but it seems like he won’t make the wholesale changes that I think were needed a few years ago. I am not convinced at this stage that he sees that the game has changed fundamentally, and that what worked five years ago isn’t going to deliver PAC 12 Championships anymore.

The evidence is pretty much conclusive now for all to see: the need to be comfortable with his underlings rather than hire the people who can continue to build out the program, sub-par recruiting, fall-off in player development. It doesn't help that Muir is the absolute worst style of A.D. when it comes to the ability to compel a guy like Shaw to take remedial action. BM is not a football guy (as was his predecessor) with no understanding as to what's required to right the ship. Very discouraging for fans at this point. Great football is disappearing in the rear-view mirror.

[gailtate]

I have lost so much faith in Shaw and the rest of the coaching staff in the last two games. It seems like it has all come to a head this season - recruiting issues, injuries, style of offense, tackling, execution - it just seems like what used to be an excellent program has become a team with some very good pieces but one that just doesn’t deliver anymore.

I used to be a of immense proportions fan of Shaw and it pains to say what I am about to say. I wonder how much Shaw is really motivated or equipped to lead a power five team at this stage of his career. He is a great spokesperson for the program, but it seems like he won’t make the wholesale changes that I think were needed a few years ago. I am not convinced at this stage that he sees that the game has changed fundamentally, and that what worked five years ago isn’t going to deliver PAC 12 Championships anymore.

The evidence is pretty much conclusive now for all to see: the need to be comfortable with his underlings rather than hire the people who can continue to build out the program, sub-par recruiting, fall-off in player development. It doesn't help that Muir is the absolute worst style of A.D. when it comes to the ability to compel a guy like Shaw to take remedial action. BM is not a football guy (as was his predecessor) with no understanding as to what's required to right the ship. Very discouraging for fans at this point. Great football is disappearing in the rear-view mirror.

[needle]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/FO_wordofmuth/status/1172967051939287041[/tweet]

[needle]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/FO_wordofmuth/status/1172967051939287041[/tweet]

[martyup]

Muth was an All Pac-12 lineman in 2008.  He knows what's up.

[martyup]

Muth was an All Pac-12 lineman in 2008.  He knows what's up.

[BostonCard]

BC, you seem to be saying that I don’t think Shaw can mix up his play calling. Of course he can. I am talking about identity and scheme on offense. 

no, what I am saying is that whatever you think our identity and scheme on offense are now, it bears little resemblance to our identity 5 years ago. If you asked me what our identity was 5 years ago, I would say we were a power running team that grinds out yardage and was opportunistic with passing.  We are most certainly not a power running team anymore.  I am still not sure what our identity is, but the only similarity to five years ago is that we still huddle and we still let the play clock wind down to a couple seconds before snapping.  But in terms of the actual plays we run, yeah, we almost never have a guard pull and team up with a fullback to lead a running back into the second level.

BC

[BostonCard]

BC, you seem to be saying that I don’t think Shaw can mix up his play calling. Of course he can. I am talking about identity and scheme on offense. 

no, what I am saying is that whatever you think our identity and scheme on offense are now, it bears little resemblance to our identity 5 years ago. If you asked me what our identity was 5 years ago, I would say we were a power running team that grinds out yardage and was opportunistic with passing.  We are most certainly not a power running team anymore.  I am still not sure what our identity is, but the only similarity to five years ago is that we still huddle and we still let the play clock wind down to a couple seconds before snapping.  But in terms of the actual plays we run, yeah, we almost never have a guard pull and team up with a fullback to lead a running back into the second level.

BC