[thatboy]

There are millions who have had COVID and soon there will be millions vaccinated. Even before we reach herd immunity there may be a majority of Americans who are no longer at risk of getting COVID, assuming reinfection is rare. I'm just wondering what people think about exempting them from the various things like social distancing, mask wearing, etc. Should they be allowed to go to stadiums and watch sports, go to restaurants, etc.?

I suspect it might be unfeasible to manage some kind of exemption (hard to prove), but just wondering if it's something that's been discussed or considered.

Thanks

[thatboy]

There are millions who have had COVID and soon there will be millions vaccinated. Even before we reach herd immunity there may be a majority of Americans who are no longer at risk of getting COVID, assuming reinfection is rare. I'm just wondering what people think about exempting them from the various things like social distancing, mask wearing, etc. Should they be allowed to go to stadiums and watch sports, go to restaurants, etc.?

I suspect it might be unfeasible to manage some kind of exemption (hard to prove), but just wondering if it's something that's been discussed or considered.

Thanks

[lex24]

Yes they should be

[lex24]

Yes they should be

[JustAnotherFan]

The risk with that is that (1) people will claim to have had Covid who did not, and (2) people will seek to be infected because "99.97% of people survive," thereby making the problem worse. I would say a vaccination exemption would be nice because at least it would encourage responsible behavior regarding vaccinations.

[JustAnotherFan]

The risk with that is that (1) people will claim to have had Covid who did not, and (2) people will seek to be infected because "99.97% of people survive," thereby making the problem worse. I would say a vaccination exemption would be nice because at least it would encourage responsible behavior regarding vaccinations.

[chrisk]

The risk with that is that (1) people will claim to have had Covid who did not, and (2) people will seek to be infected because "99.97% of people survive," thereby making the problem worse. I would say a vaccination exemption would be nice because at least it would encourage responsible behavior regarding vaccinations.

What are the chances that the US comes up with a national data base of vaccinations along with the required secure ID in tin PE for it to make a difference?

Taiwan has a national health ID card that contains some health information itself and allows access to the patient’s electronic health record.

[chrisk]

The risk with that is that (1) people will claim to have had Covid who did not, and (2) people will seek to be infected because "99.97% of people survive," thereby making the problem worse. I would say a vaccination exemption would be nice because at least it would encourage responsible behavior regarding vaccinations.

What are the chances that the US comes up with a national data base of vaccinations along with the required secure ID in tin PE for it to make a difference?

Taiwan has a national health ID card that contains some health information itself and allows access to the patient’s electronic health record.

[Snorlax94]

At first glance, these exemptions make sense. As others have noted, I like the dual benefits: they provide a lifeline to small businesses with additional customers, and they provide an incentive to be vaccinated.

It’d be good to get started planning now because it could take a while to implement the system and think through the verification component — will people receive some kind of paperwork when they receive their final dose.

My concern is that it could exacerbate the sense of unfairness people may feel initially when not all who want to be vaccinated can be, so I’d wait a little bit before starting it, especially if politicians are choosing who gets vaccinated after first responders. If it were totally random, like by birthday, there would be less resentment

We also don’t want to start it too soon because it could actually make things worse. We still haven’t quantified to what extent vaccinated (and previously infected) people are contagious.

I could also see a variant of this — venues like summer camps, sporting events, concerts and high schools/colleges could require vaccine paperwork for admission starting this summer.

[Snorlax94]

At first glance, these exemptions make sense. As others have noted, I like the dual benefits: they provide a lifeline to small businesses with additional customers, and they provide an incentive to be vaccinated.

It’d be good to get started planning now because it could take a while to implement the system and think through the verification component — will people receive some kind of paperwork when they receive their final dose.

My concern is that it could exacerbate the sense of unfairness people may feel initially when not all who want to be vaccinated can be, so I’d wait a little bit before starting it, especially if politicians are choosing who gets vaccinated after first responders. If it were totally random, like by birthday, there would be less resentment

We also don’t want to start it too soon because it could actually make things worse. We still haven’t quantified to what extent vaccinated (and previously infected) people are contagious.

I could also see a variant of this — venues like summer camps, sporting events, concerts and high schools/colleges could require vaccine paperwork for admission starting this summer.

[BostonCard]

Scientifically, yes.  Operationally, I don’t know if it can be instituted.

BC

[BostonCard]

Scientifically, yes.  Operationally, I don’t know if it can be instituted.

BC

[Goose]

Taiwan has a national health ID card that contains some health information itself and allows access to the patient’s electronic health record.

The WHO "yellow card" has your validated immunization information on it. It isn't electronic, AFAIK, but it says what you have received. It has been in use for many years, although it has been a long time since anybody asked to see mine. We are all going to need something like that to travel abroad, so why not just mandate that for everybody and kill two birds with one stone?

[Goose]

Taiwan has a national health ID card that contains some health information itself and allows access to the patient’s electronic health record.

The WHO "yellow card" has your validated immunization information on it. It isn't electronic, AFAIK, but it says what you have received. It has been in use for many years, although it has been a long time since anybody asked to see mine. We are all going to need something like that to travel abroad, so why not just mandate that for everybody and kill two birds with one stone?

[teejers1]

Taiwan has a national health ID card that contains some health information itself and allows access to the patient’s electronic health record.

The WHO "yellow card" has your validated immunization information on it. It isn't electronic, AFAIK, but it says what you have received. It has been in use for many years, although it has been a long time since anybody asked to see mine. We are all going to need something like that to travel abroad, so why not just mandate that for everybody and kill two birds with one stone?

Let's use it for voting, too.  3 birds with one stone!  (Relax, everyone, just some humor.  Plus, I'm not sure which "side" such a requirement would benefit, if the anti-vaxxers are all right wing nuts).

[teejers1]

Taiwan has a national health ID card that contains some health information itself and allows access to the patient’s electronic health record.

The WHO "yellow card" has your validated immunization information on it. It isn't electronic, AFAIK, but it says what you have received. It has been in use for many years, although it has been a long time since anybody asked to see mine. We are all going to need something like that to travel abroad, so why not just mandate that for everybody and kill two birds with one stone?

Let's use it for voting, too.  3 birds with one stone!  (Relax, everyone, just some humor.  Plus, I'm not sure which "side" such a requirement would benefit, if the anti-vaxxers are all right wing nuts).

[lex24]

Taiwan has a national health ID card that contains some health information itself and allows access to the patient’s electronic health record.

The WHO "yellow card" has your validated immunization information on it. It isn't electronic, AFAIK, but it says what you have received. It has been in use for many years, although it has been a long time since anybody asked to see mine. We are all going to need something like that to travel abroad, so why not just mandate that for everybody and kill two birds with one stone?

Let's use it for voting, too.  3 birds with one stone!  (Relax, everyone, just some humor.  Plus, I'm not sure which "side" such a requirement would benefit, if the anti-vaxxers are all right wing nuts).

I don’t think “anti-vaxxers” has any particular political or ideological bent.

[lex24]

Taiwan has a national health ID card that contains some health information itself and allows access to the patient’s electronic health record.

The WHO "yellow card" has your validated immunization information on it. It isn't electronic, AFAIK, but it says what you have received. It has been in use for many years, although it has been a long time since anybody asked to see mine. We are all going to need something like that to travel abroad, so why not just mandate that for everybody and kill two birds with one stone?

Let's use it for voting, too.  3 birds with one stone!  (Relax, everyone, just some humor.  Plus, I'm not sure which "side" such a requirement would benefit, if the anti-vaxxers are all right wing nuts).

I don’t think “anti-vaxxers” has any particular political or ideological bent.

[JustAnotherFan]

Taiwan has a national health ID card that contains some health information itself and allows access to the patient’s electronic health record.

The WHO "yellow card" has your validated immunization information on it. It isn't electronic, AFAIK, but it says what you have received. It has been in use for many years, although it has been a long time since anybody asked to see mine. We are all going to need something like that to travel abroad, so why not just mandate that for everybody and kill two birds with one stone?

Let's use it for voting, too.  3 birds with one stone!  (Relax, everyone, just some humor.  Plus, I'm not sure which "side" such a requirement would benefit, if the anti-vaxxers are all right wing nuts).

I don’t think “anti-vaxxers” has any particular political or ideological bent.

Anti-vaxxers are far more common in progressive strongholds such as san francisco, austin, and boulder than they are in deep red territory. In many states it is the wealthy progressive schools that are filled with liberal anti-vaxxers who don't want to deal with the hassle of public school vaccination requirements or pressures. They are very strong in the libertarian "everything is designed to kill me" free stater crowd, as well. Also in the DoTerra essential oils crowd. So yeah, anti-vaxxers are not all right wing nuts. Although they are often part of the anti-masker crowd, which could lead one to believe they are right wing nuts.

[JustAnotherFan]

Taiwan has a national health ID card that contains some health information itself and allows access to the patient’s electronic health record.

The WHO "yellow card" has your validated immunization information on it. It isn't electronic, AFAIK, but it says what you have received. It has been in use for many years, although it has been a long time since anybody asked to see mine. We are all going to need something like that to travel abroad, so why not just mandate that for everybody and kill two birds with one stone?

Let's use it for voting, too.  3 birds with one stone!  (Relax, everyone, just some humor.  Plus, I'm not sure which "side" such a requirement would benefit, if the anti-vaxxers are all right wing nuts).

I don’t think “anti-vaxxers” has any particular political or ideological bent.

Anti-vaxxers are far more common in progressive strongholds such as san francisco, austin, and boulder than they are in deep red territory. In many states it is the wealthy progressive schools that are filled with liberal anti-vaxxers who don't want to deal with the hassle of public school vaccination requirements or pressures. They are very strong in the libertarian "everything is designed to kill me" free stater crowd, as well. Also in the DoTerra essential oils crowd. So yeah, anti-vaxxers are not all right wing nuts. Although they are often part of the anti-masker crowd, which could lead one to believe they are right wing nuts.

[fanofourforebears]

There are millions who have had COVID and soon there will be millions vaccinated. Even before we reach herd immunity there may be a majority of Americans who are no longer at risk of getting COVID, assuming reinfection is rare. I'm just wondering what people think about exempting them from the various things like social distancing, mask wearing, etc. Should they be allowed to go to stadiums and watch sports, go to restaurants, etc.?

I suspect it might be unfeasible to manage some kind of exemption (hard to prove), but just wondering if it's something that's been discussed or considered.

Thanks

First nine months into this, we still have not had the virus properly isolated and identified.  We have seen considerable cost and resources spent on buying us time until there is a cure or a vaccine, but the most basic and foundation research towards this has been skipped.  It has not been done.  How is this possible? It is because the standard of research no longer requires isolation as defined by either Koch's or River's postulates, which are the gold standard for true isolation and identification of a virus. This was changed due to the shortage or and brobdingnagian cost of obtaining and operating the kind of electron microscopes needed to properly isolate, culture, identify and do research upon viruses that has gotten worse and not better over the past twenty years.

Without true and scientifically sound isolation and identification of a virus, assumptions based upon association are made, and this multiplies the risk of problems with diagnosing, treating and yes preventing the "new virus" in the present and in the future. In these circumstances there is always going to be a risk of not getting things quite right. This risk factor is significantly reduced if and when the virus is properly isolated and identified. This impacts the testing and accuracy of confirming whether one has truly had Covid-19 and maybe not just a common cold or the flu that according to some can trigger false positives. It also raises the question of just what "illness" or "virus" or human exosome, or other matter, the new vaccines are going to protect us against and the true efficacy of the vaccines against Sars2 and Covid-19. Microbiology 101

[fanofourforebears]

There are millions who have had COVID and soon there will be millions vaccinated. Even before we reach herd immunity there may be a majority of Americans who are no longer at risk of getting COVID, assuming reinfection is rare. I'm just wondering what people think about exempting them from the various things like social distancing, mask wearing, etc. Should they be allowed to go to stadiums and watch sports, go to restaurants, etc.?

I suspect it might be unfeasible to manage some kind of exemption (hard to prove), but just wondering if it's something that's been discussed or considered.

Thanks

First nine months into this, we still have not had the virus properly isolated and identified.  We have seen considerable cost and resources spent on buying us time until there is a cure or a vaccine, but the most basic and foundation research towards this has been skipped.  It has not been done.  How is this possible? It is because the standard of research no longer requires isolation as defined by either Koch's or River's postulates, which are the gold standard for true isolation and identification of a virus. This was changed due to the shortage or and brobdingnagian cost of obtaining and operating the kind of electron microscopes needed to properly isolate, culture, identify and do research upon viruses that has gotten worse and not better over the past twenty years.

Without true and scientifically sound isolation and identification of a virus, assumptions based upon association are made, and this multiplies the risk of problems with diagnosing, treating and yes preventing the "new virus" in the present and in the future. In these circumstances there is always going to be a risk of not getting things quite right. This risk factor is significantly reduced if and when the virus is properly isolated and identified. This impacts the testing and accuracy of confirming whether one has truly had Covid-19 and maybe not just a common cold or the flu that according to some can trigger false positives. It also raises the question of just what "illness" or "virus" or human exosome, or other matter, the new vaccines are going to protect us against and the true efficacy of the vaccines against Sars2 and Covid-19. Microbiology 101

[BostonCard]

There are millions who have had COVID and soon there will be millions vaccinated. Even before we reach herd immunity there may be a majority of Americans who are no longer at risk of getting COVID, assuming reinfection is rare. I'm just wondering what people think about exempting them from the various things like social distancing, mask wearing, etc. Should they be allowed to go to stadiums and watch sports, go to restaurants, etc.?

I suspect it might be unfeasible to manage some kind of exemption (hard to prove), but just wondering if it's something that's been discussed or considered.

Thanks

First nine months into this, we still have not had the virus properly isolated and identified.  We have seen considerable cost and resources spent on buying us time until there is a cure or a vaccine, but the most basic and foundation research towards this has been skipped.  It has not been done.  How is this possible?  It is because the standard of research no longer requires isolation as defined by either Koch's or River's postulates, which are the gold standard for true isolation and identification of a virus.  This was changed due to the shortage or and of immense proportions cost of obtaining and operating the kind of electron microscopes needed to properly isolate, culture, identify and do research upon viruses that has gotten worse and not better over the past twenty years. 

Without true and scientifically sound isolation and identification of a virus, assumptions based upon association are made, and this multiplies the risk of problems with diagnosing, treating and yes preventing the "new virus" in the present and in the future.  In these circumstances there is always going to be a risk of not getting things quite right.  This risk factor is significantly reduced if and when the virus is properly isolated and identified.  This impacts the testing and accuracy of confirming whether one has truly had Covid-19 and maybe not just a common cold or the flu that according to some can trigger false positives.  It also raises the question of just what "illness" or "virus" or human exosome, or other matter, the new vaccines are going to protect us against and the true efficacy of the vaccines against Sars2 and Covid-19.  Microbiology 101

Why do you keep saying this?  The virus was isolated and identified back in January.  We've had its genetic sequence since back then.  We've had scanning electron microscope pictures, like this one



Here's a nice review article about this stuff:

https://www.cureus.com/articles/29459-br...sars-cov-2

Koch's postulates have been fulfilled.  The six criteria:

Isolation of virus from diseased hosts: check
Cultivation in host cells: check
Proof of filterability: check
Production of comparable disease in the original host species or a related one: check (it has been done in non-human primates)
Re-isolation of the virus: check
Detection of a specific immune response to the virus: check

BC

[BostonCard]

There are millions who have had COVID and soon there will be millions vaccinated. Even before we reach herd immunity there may be a majority of Americans who are no longer at risk of getting COVID, assuming reinfection is rare. I'm just wondering what people think about exempting them from the various things like social distancing, mask wearing, etc. Should they be allowed to go to stadiums and watch sports, go to restaurants, etc.?

I suspect it might be unfeasible to manage some kind of exemption (hard to prove), but just wondering if it's something that's been discussed or considered.

Thanks

First nine months into this, we still have not had the virus properly isolated and identified.  We have seen considerable cost and resources spent on buying us time until there is a cure or a vaccine, but the most basic and foundation research towards this has been skipped.  It has not been done.  How is this possible?  It is because the standard of research no longer requires isolation as defined by either Koch's or River's postulates, which are the gold standard for true isolation and identification of a virus.  This was changed due to the shortage or and of immense proportions cost of obtaining and operating the kind of electron microscopes needed to properly isolate, culture, identify and do research upon viruses that has gotten worse and not better over the past twenty years. 

Without true and scientifically sound isolation and identification of a virus, assumptions based upon association are made, and this multiplies the risk of problems with diagnosing, treating and yes preventing the "new virus" in the present and in the future.  In these circumstances there is always going to be a risk of not getting things quite right.  This risk factor is significantly reduced if and when the virus is properly isolated and identified.  This impacts the testing and accuracy of confirming whether one has truly had Covid-19 and maybe not just a common cold or the flu that according to some can trigger false positives.  It also raises the question of just what "illness" or "virus" or human exosome, or other matter, the new vaccines are going to protect us against and the true efficacy of the vaccines against Sars2 and Covid-19.  Microbiology 101

Why do you keep saying this?  The virus was isolated and identified back in January.  We've had its genetic sequence since back then.  We've had scanning electron microscope pictures, like this one



Here's a nice review article about this stuff:

https://www.cureus.com/articles/29459-br...sars-cov-2

Koch's postulates have been fulfilled.  The six criteria:

Isolation of virus from diseased hosts: check
Cultivation in host cells: check
Proof of filterability: check
Production of comparable disease in the original host species or a related one: check (it has been done in non-human primates)
Re-isolation of the virus: check
Detection of a specific immune response to the virus: check

BC