[BostonCard]

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...21-season/

Lots of familiar names, including:
Clay Helton "The Trojans have become an afterthought on the national stage at best, a laughing stock at worst."
Scott Frost "OK, so it's exactly the same [as Harbaugh's situation". He has a 12-20 record in three seasons, hasn't finished .500 or better in a single campaign, and has placed fifth in the Big Ten West -- not exactly a gauntlet -- in all three of his seasons back in Lincoln."
Jim Harbaugh "Five seasons later, that seems like something out of an expensive fantasy movie. Harbaugh's team hasn't won the Big Ten East or topped heated rival Ohio State during his tenure in Ann Arbor, Michigan, and the national perception of the program is that it's a punchline to a very poorly-formed joke."

Not entirely sure why Lincoln Riley should be on the hot seat.  Sure, he hasn't won the national title, but I mean, only one coach a year can.

BC

[BostonCard]

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...21-season/

Lots of familiar names, including:
Clay Helton "The Trojans have become an afterthought on the national stage at best, a laughing stock at worst."
Scott Frost "OK, so it's exactly the same [as Harbaugh's situation". He has a 12-20 record in three seasons, hasn't finished .500 or better in a single campaign, and has placed fifth in the Big Ten West -- not exactly a gauntlet -- in all three of his seasons back in Lincoln."
Jim Harbaugh "Five seasons later, that seems like something out of an expensive fantasy movie. Harbaugh's team hasn't won the Big Ten East or topped heated rival Ohio State during his tenure in Ann Arbor, Michigan, and the national perception of the program is that it's a punchline to a very poorly-formed joke."

Not entirely sure why Lincoln Riley should be on the hot seat.  Sure, he hasn't won the national title, but I mean, only one coach a year can.

BC

[JohnR34231]

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...21-season/

Lots of familiar names, including:
Clay Helton "The Trojans have become an afterthought on the national stage at best, a laughing stock at worst."
Scott Frost "OK, so it's exactly the same [as Harbaugh's situation". He has a 12-20 record in three seasons, hasn't finished .500 or better in a single campaign, and has placed fifth in the Big Ten West -- not exactly a gauntlet -- in all three of his seasons back in Lincoln."
Jim Harbaugh "Five seasons later, that seems like something out of an expensive fantasy movie. Harbaugh's team hasn't won the Big Ten East or topped heated rival Ohio State during his tenure in Ann Arbor, Michigan, and the national perception of the program is that it's a punchline to a very poorly-formed joke."

Not entirely sure why Lincoln Riley should be on the hot seat.  Sure, he hasn't won the national title, but I mean, only one coach a year can.

BC

Scott Frost is a "legendary" quarterback? Well, maybe he is in his home state.

[JohnR34231]

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...21-season/

Lots of familiar names, including:
Clay Helton "The Trojans have become an afterthought on the national stage at best, a laughing stock at worst."
Scott Frost "OK, so it's exactly the same [as Harbaugh's situation". He has a 12-20 record in three seasons, hasn't finished .500 or better in a single campaign, and has placed fifth in the Big Ten West -- not exactly a gauntlet -- in all three of his seasons back in Lincoln."
Jim Harbaugh "Five seasons later, that seems like something out of an expensive fantasy movie. Harbaugh's team hasn't won the Big Ten East or topped heated rival Ohio State during his tenure in Ann Arbor, Michigan, and the national perception of the program is that it's a punchline to a very poorly-formed joke."

Not entirely sure why Lincoln Riley should be on the hot seat.  Sure, he hasn't won the national title, but I mean, only one coach a year can.

BC

Scott Frost is a "legendary" quarterback? Well, maybe he is in his home state.

[Phogge]

Helton is 45-23, 36-12 in conference. He would be a god in Berkeley with that record.

[Phogge]

Helton is 45-23, 36-12 in conference. He would be a god in Berkeley with that record.

[BostonCard]

Shaw is 90-36 (71% winning percentage, compared to Helton's 66%), 62-24 in conference (72%, compared to Helton's 75%) and yet some people on this board claim he's already been surpassed by the guy across the Bay.

BC

[BostonCard]

Shaw is 90-36 (71% winning percentage, compared to Helton's 66%), 62-24 in conference (72%, compared to Helton's 75%) and yet some people on this board claim he's already been surpassed by the guy across the Bay.

BC

[winflop]

Shaw is 90-36 (71% winning percentage, compared to Helton's 66%), 62-24 in conference (72%, compared to Helton's 75%) and yet some people on this board claim he's already been surpassed by the guy across the Bay.

BC

Shaw vs Helton 2016-2019:
Overall: 62% vs 65%
Conference 61% vs 72%
Excluded 2020 and Helton's 2015 which was a partial year

Shaw vs Wilcox 2017-2019:
Overall: 56% vs 53%
Conference: 59% vs 37%

Anyone who's making those claims about Wilcox vs Shaw is a loonbat, but Helton has a better record than Shaw over the same time period.

[winflop]

Shaw is 90-36 (71% winning percentage, compared to Helton's 66%), 62-24 in conference (72%, compared to Helton's 75%) and yet some people on this board claim he's already been surpassed by the guy across the Bay.

BC

Shaw vs Helton 2016-2019:
Overall: 62% vs 65%
Conference 61% vs 72%
Excluded 2020 and Helton's 2015 which was a partial year

Shaw vs Wilcox 2017-2019:
Overall: 56% vs 53%
Conference: 59% vs 37%

Anyone who's making those claims about Wilcox vs Shaw is a loonbat, but Helton has a better record than Shaw over the same time period.

[BostonCard]

Shaw is 90-36 (71% winning percentage, compared to Helton's 66%), 62-24 in conference (72%, compared to Helton's 75%) and yet some people on this board claim he's already been surpassed by the guy across the Bay.



BC

Shaw vs Helton 2016-2019:

Overall: 62% vs 65%

Conference 61% vs 72%

Excluded 2020 and Helton's 2015 which was a partial year



Shaw vs Wilcox 2017-2019:

Overall: 56% vs 53%

Conference: 59% vs 37%



Anyone who's making those claims about Wilcox vs Shaw is a loonbat, but Helton has a better record than Shaw over the same time period.

I wonder how many Stanford coaches are within 3 percentage points of their USC contemporaries in overall record or even 11 percentage points in the conference record.

BC

[BostonCard]

Shaw is 90-36 (71% winning percentage, compared to Helton's 66%), 62-24 in conference (72%, compared to Helton's 75%) and yet some people on this board claim he's already been surpassed by the guy across the Bay.



BC

Shaw vs Helton 2016-2019:

Overall: 62% vs 65%

Conference 61% vs 72%

Excluded 2020 and Helton's 2015 which was a partial year



Shaw vs Wilcox 2017-2019:

Overall: 56% vs 53%

Conference: 59% vs 37%



Anyone who's making those claims about Wilcox vs Shaw is a loonbat, but Helton has a better record than Shaw over the same time period.

I wonder how many Stanford coaches are within 3 percentage points of their USC contemporaries in overall record or even 11 percentage points in the conference record.

BC

[Phogge]

Probably Tiny Thornhill. Maybe Pop or Coach Shag. Big Red could tell you.

[Phogge]

Probably Tiny Thornhill. Maybe Pop or Coach Shag. Big Red could tell you.

[SamuelMcF]

Shaw is 90-36 (71% winning percentage, compared to Helton's 66%), 62-24 in conference (72%, compared to Helton's 75%) and yet some people on this board claim he's already been surpassed by the guy across the Bay.



BC

Shaw vs Helton 2016-2019:

Overall: 62% vs 65%

Conference 61% vs 72%

Excluded 2020 and Helton's 2015 which was a partial year



Shaw vs Wilcox 2017-2019:

Overall: 56% vs 53%

Conference: 59% vs 37%



Anyone who's making those claims about Wilcox vs Shaw is a loonbat, but Helton has a better record than Shaw over the same time period.

I wonder how many Stanford coaches are within 3 percentage points of their USC contemporaries in overall record or even 11 percentage points in the conference record.

BC

Don't worry, give it a couple years. It'll get worse.

[SamuelMcF]

Shaw is 90-36 (71% winning percentage, compared to Helton's 66%), 62-24 in conference (72%, compared to Helton's 75%) and yet some people on this board claim he's already been surpassed by the guy across the Bay.



BC

Shaw vs Helton 2016-2019:

Overall: 62% vs 65%

Conference 61% vs 72%

Excluded 2020 and Helton's 2015 which was a partial year



Shaw vs Wilcox 2017-2019:

Overall: 56% vs 53%

Conference: 59% vs 37%



Anyone who's making those claims about Wilcox vs Shaw is a loonbat, but Helton has a better record than Shaw over the same time period.

I wonder how many Stanford coaches are within 3 percentage points of their USC contemporaries in overall record or even 11 percentage points in the conference record.

BC

Don't worry, give it a couple years. It'll get worse.

[Phogge]

VS SC:

Warner 2-5-1
Tiny 4-3
Shag 2-0

---

Shaw: 6-5

[Phogge]

VS SC:

Warner 2-5-1
Tiny 4-3
Shag 2-0

---

Shaw: 6-5

[Spiny_Norman]

VS SC:

Warner 2-5-1
Tiny 4-3
Shag 2-0

---

Shaw: 6-5

Shaw was 5-2 vs. USC after the 2016 season and seemed to have their number. He's 1-3 since.

But this still looks pretty good historically. Ralston was 2-7. Walsh was 1-4.

[Spiny_Norman]

VS SC:

Warner 2-5-1
Tiny 4-3
Shag 2-0

---

Shaw: 6-5

Shaw was 5-2 vs. USC after the 2016 season and seemed to have their number. He's 1-3 since.

But this still looks pretty good historically. Ralston was 2-7. Walsh was 1-4.

[Papa John]

Don't know why one would exclude 2020. The game results are official, even though Stanford got screwed by a faulty Covid test.

But if we are going to exclude 2020, then I suggest that we exclude 2019, since Stanford played just short of one half of football with its seasoned, starting QB.

Look, we can all agree that the last five years haven't been nearly as good as the previous five. But in those five "crappy" years, we went:
10-3 (6-3)--3rd place, Pac-12 North, Sun Bowl winner
9-5 (7-2)--Pac-12 North champion, Alamo Bowl loser
9-4 (6-3)--3rd place, Pac-12 North, Sun Bowl winner
4-8 (3-6)--last place, Pac-12 North
4-2 (4-2)--3rd place, Pac-12 North

If future results look more like 2019 than the other four years listed above, then sure we should talk about whether or not Shaw should stay or go. Samual McF seems certain this will be the case, but why don't we give Shaw and Company the benefit of the doubt before we convict him? I mean the guy has coached Stanford to winning records in conference four of the last five years (not to mention nine of the last ten)!

Pre-Harbaugh, the last time Stanford had four out of five overall winning seasons was 1974-1978, spanning Christiansen and Walsh I. Between now and then:
Teevens, Harris: 0 winning seasons out of 5
Willingham: 4 out of 7
Walsh II: 1 out of 3
Green: 1 out of 3
Elway: 1 out of 5
Wiggin: 1 out of 4
Dowhower: 0 out of 1 (5-5-1, so close but no cigar)

So that's 8 winning seasons out of 27 between Walsh I and Harbaugh's arrival.

[Papa John]

Don't know why one would exclude 2020. The game results are official, even though Stanford got screwed by a faulty Covid test.

But if we are going to exclude 2020, then I suggest that we exclude 2019, since Stanford played just short of one half of football with its seasoned, starting QB.

Look, we can all agree that the last five years haven't been nearly as good as the previous five. But in those five "crappy" years, we went:
10-3 (6-3)--3rd place, Pac-12 North, Sun Bowl winner
9-5 (7-2)--Pac-12 North champion, Alamo Bowl loser
9-4 (6-3)--3rd place, Pac-12 North, Sun Bowl winner
4-8 (3-6)--last place, Pac-12 North
4-2 (4-2)--3rd place, Pac-12 North

If future results look more like 2019 than the other four years listed above, then sure we should talk about whether or not Shaw should stay or go. Samual McF seems certain this will be the case, but why don't we give Shaw and Company the benefit of the doubt before we convict him? I mean the guy has coached Stanford to winning records in conference four of the last five years (not to mention nine of the last ten)!

Pre-Harbaugh, the last time Stanford had four out of five overall winning seasons was 1974-1978, spanning Christiansen and Walsh I. Between now and then:
Teevens, Harris: 0 winning seasons out of 5
Willingham: 4 out of 7
Walsh II: 1 out of 3
Green: 1 out of 3
Elway: 1 out of 5
Wiggin: 1 out of 4
Dowhower: 0 out of 1 (5-5-1, so close but no cigar)

So that's 8 winning seasons out of 27 between Walsh I and Harbaugh's arrival.

[Farm93]

When Shaw leaves, and we all know he will not be fired in the 2020s, we are far more likely to enjoy a couple of decades with Teevens, Harris or Elway “success” than Pop Warner or umm....David Shaw levels of success. 

The TV revenue bias towards Eastern time zone schools coupled with a likely similar bias for player promotional opportunities may mean that after Shaw Stanford football will be about as successful year to year as Cal or Oregon State if not SJSU and SDSU.

[Farm93]

When Shaw leaves, and we all know he will not be fired in the 2020s, we are far more likely to enjoy a couple of decades with Teevens, Harris or Elway “success” than Pop Warner or umm....David Shaw levels of success. 

The TV revenue bias towards Eastern time zone schools coupled with a likely similar bias for player promotional opportunities may mean that after Shaw Stanford football will be about as successful year to year as Cal or Oregon State if not SJSU and SDSU.

[winflop]

Shaw is 90-36 (71% winning percentage, compared to Helton's 66%), 62-24 in conference (72%, compared to Helton's 75%) and yet some people on this board claim he's already been surpassed by the guy across the Bay.



BC

Shaw vs Helton 2016-2019:

Overall: 62% vs 65%

Conference 61% vs 72%

Excluded 2020 and Helton's 2015 which was a partial year



Shaw vs Wilcox 2017-2019:

Overall: 56% vs 53%

Conference: 59% vs 37%



Anyone who's making those claims about Wilcox vs Shaw is a loonbat, but Helton has a better record than Shaw over the same time period.

I wonder how many Stanford coaches are within 3 percentage points of their USC contemporaries in overall record or even 11 percentage points in the conference record.

BC

The difference is that the U$C coach is on the hot seat and the Stanford coach is not.

[winflop]

Shaw is 90-36 (71% winning percentage, compared to Helton's 66%), 62-24 in conference (72%, compared to Helton's 75%) and yet some people on this board claim he's already been surpassed by the guy across the Bay.



BC

Shaw vs Helton 2016-2019:

Overall: 62% vs 65%

Conference 61% vs 72%

Excluded 2020 and Helton's 2015 which was a partial year



Shaw vs Wilcox 2017-2019:

Overall: 56% vs 53%

Conference: 59% vs 37%



Anyone who's making those claims about Wilcox vs Shaw is a loonbat, but Helton has a better record than Shaw over the same time period.

I wonder how many Stanford coaches are within 3 percentage points of their USC contemporaries in overall record or even 11 percentage points in the conference record.

BC

The difference is that the U$C coach is on the hot seat and the Stanford coach is not.

[Goose]

The difference is that the U$C coach is on the hot seat and the Stanford coach is not.

The U$C coach is most definitely not on the hot seat. His buyout is about 15 mil right now as I understand it. Even in "normal" times that would be a very tough nut to crack. However, after U$C has recently been overwhelmed with unplanned legal expenses beyond anything they are really able to pay there is no way they are going to even think about such a buyout. He is staying unless he too becomes a legal liability.

[Goose]

The difference is that the U$C coach is on the hot seat and the Stanford coach is not.

The U$C coach is most definitely not on the hot seat. His buyout is about 15 mil right now as I understand it. Even in "normal" times that would be a very tough nut to crack. However, after U$C has recently been overwhelmed with unplanned legal expenses beyond anything they are really able to pay there is no way they are going to even think about such a buyout. He is staying unless he too becomes a legal liability.

[lex24]

Shaw is 90-36 (71% winning percentage, compared to Helton's 66%), 62-24 in conference (72%, compared to Helton's 75%) and yet some people on this board claim he's already been surpassed by the guy across the Bay.

BC

Conference isnt apples to apples, either. North has consistently been the tougher division. 

Biggest difference is history. SC has all those NC’s. That’s the expectation.

---

When Shaw leaves, and we all know he will not be fired in the 2020s, we are far more likely to enjoy a couple of decades with Teevens, Harris or Elway “success” than Pop Warner or umm....David Shaw levels of success. 

The TV revenue bias towards Eastern time zone schools coupled with a likely similar bias for player promotional opportunities may mean that after Shaw Stanford football will be about as successful year to year as Cal or Oregon State if not SJSU and SDSU.

I also think the loosened transfer rules will hurt Stanford.  Badly.

[lex24]

Shaw is 90-36 (71% winning percentage, compared to Helton's 66%), 62-24 in conference (72%, compared to Helton's 75%) and yet some people on this board claim he's already been surpassed by the guy across the Bay.

BC

Conference isnt apples to apples, either. North has consistently been the tougher division. 

Biggest difference is history. SC has all those NC’s. That’s the expectation.

---

When Shaw leaves, and we all know he will not be fired in the 2020s, we are far more likely to enjoy a couple of decades with Teevens, Harris or Elway “success” than Pop Warner or umm....David Shaw levels of success. 

The TV revenue bias towards Eastern time zone schools coupled with a likely similar bias for player promotional opportunities may mean that after Shaw Stanford football will be about as successful year to year as Cal or Oregon State if not SJSU and SDSU.

I also think the loosened transfer rules will hurt Stanford.  Badly.

[Phogge]

Remember Lex, like Alabama they are entitled to it.

[Phogge]

Remember Lex, like Alabama they are entitled to it.