[fullmetal]

I don't give a rats ass who TT bullied. According to two separate reports, he is a bully and has treated people horribly. He needs to go, there should be no place for mental abuse. 

May we assume that your position is that anyone at Stanford who bullies anyone else and treats others horribly? They need to go, full stop?

Is that not a fair extension of the Fundamental Standard?

Students at Stanford are expected to show both within and without the University such respect for order, morality, personal honor and the rights of others as is demanded of good citizens. Failure to do this will be sufficient cause for removal from the University.

[fullmetal]

I don't give a rats ass who TT bullied. According to two separate reports, he is a bully and has treated people horribly. He needs to go, there should be no place for mental abuse. 

May we assume that your position is that anyone at Stanford who bullies anyone else and treats others horribly? They need to go, full stop?

Is that not a fair extension of the Fundamental Standard?

Students at Stanford are expected to show both within and without the University such respect for order, morality, personal honor and the rights of others as is demanded of good citizens. Failure to do this will be sufficient cause for removal from the University.

[cardbored]

People who are unwilling to put their names to accusations for fear of losing their jobs are cowards and unprincipled.

The first person to file a complaint did so after going to Tara VanDerveer to ask for advice on what to do, and it was Coach VanDerveer who then brought forward concerns to the athletic department administration, per this reporting (about the 2:55 mark in the video):

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/sports/u...n/3825246/

Thank you for posting that NBC Bay Area report, which includes—at roughly the 1:00 mark—images of the purported O'Brien report. To the extent the O'Brien report is real, it appears that source of the original complaint is a male who identifies as a female and that the department employs multiple such individuals. <SNIP>

To start, I was taught early on in my professional career to avoid including"...it appears..." in any written communiction like the plague.  I slo-mo'ed the clip at about that point and NBC Bay Area made a MAJOR mistake by failing to fully redact the complainant's (last) name from the shot of the report they included at the ~1:00 mark.

My question is, is this name the basis on your assertion that the the complainant is a transgender (male) staff member, or is there other information you have to back up your assertion - if the former, I think you should retract your post unless you have evidence to the contrary, in which case, I'll be accept that and move on.

Don't get me wrong - I'm more interested in just the facts of the situation, and not speculation, which as we all know can easily send us off on tangents &/or down really ugly rabbit holes.  

Last, what I <really> friggin want is for the football ship to right itself and start an unprecedented chain of post-season bowl apprearances, though this may have to wait until the 2026 season.

Fair question and request. In the image posted in the report, under section A, these phrases appear:

• "alleging that Coach Taylor discriminated against her on the basis of her gender and sexual orientation."
  
• "gave several examples of disregard for gender equity concerns and poor treatment of female-identifying DAPER administrators."
  

I read both "gender" and "sexual" as modifiers for "orientation," i.e., "gender orientation" and "sexual orientation," but allowed for the possibility that the report was using Stanford's definition of gender (a "social construct") as a noun as opposed to sex (a biological phenomenon). But I still could not be sure, and thus used "appears." I agree with you that "appears" should be avoided, but given that we live in an age of language abuse where the plain meaning of words can no longer be taken at face value, I hedged. It is also possible that "female-identifying DAPER administrators" are actually females and not males identifying as females." And it is further possible, based only upon the report snippet on the screen, that the complainant is heterosexual and accusing Taylor of discrimination against heterosexuals. So yes, I drew several inferences, some of which may be incorrect, and would have no objection if my post is deleted, especially now that you have drawn attention to the name "Owen" that NBC Bay Area failed to redact.

It is possible that "Owen" is a surname. A person with that surname used to play for Tara VanDerveer, is a lawyer, used to work in the Stanford Department of Athletics, was a football administrator, has a feminine first name and "wife" with a feminine first name, and left Stanford in 2024 to become the AD at another university. Is that person actually the original complainant? That information has yet to be made public, but we can all draw our own inferences with the aid of a decent search engine. If "Owen" is that person, then Owen would appear to be a biological female who is homosexual—again, I cannot be sure. Whatever may be the actual identity, biological sex, and sexual preferences of the complainant, the complainant deserves to be treated with dignity and in a professional, humane manner. Troy Taylor deserves the same respect.

Moderators, no hard feelings if you delete my post that "PalmTree" references, or this one for that matter.

[cardbored]

People who are unwilling to put their names to accusations for fear of losing their jobs are cowards and unprincipled.

The first person to file a complaint did so after going to Tara VanDerveer to ask for advice on what to do, and it was Coach VanDerveer who then brought forward concerns to the athletic department administration, per this reporting (about the 2:55 mark in the video):

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/sports/u...n/3825246/

Thank you for posting that NBC Bay Area report, which includes—at roughly the 1:00 mark—images of the purported O'Brien report. To the extent the O'Brien report is real, it appears that source of the original complaint is a male who identifies as a female and that the department employs multiple such individuals. <SNIP>

To start, I was taught early on in my professional career to avoid including"...it appears..." in any written communiction like the plague.  I slo-mo'ed the clip at about that point and NBC Bay Area made a MAJOR mistake by failing to fully redact the complainant's (last) name from the shot of the report they included at the ~1:00 mark.

My question is, is this name the basis on your assertion that the the complainant is a transgender (male) staff member, or is there other information you have to back up your assertion - if the former, I think you should retract your post unless you have evidence to the contrary, in which case, I'll be accept that and move on.

Don't get me wrong - I'm more interested in just the facts of the situation, and not speculation, which as we all know can easily send us off on tangents &/or down really ugly rabbit holes.  

Last, what I <really> friggin want is for the football ship to right itself and start an unprecedented chain of post-season bowl apprearances, though this may have to wait until the 2026 season.

Fair question and request. In the image posted in the report, under section A, these phrases appear:

• "alleging that Coach Taylor discriminated against her on the basis of her gender and sexual orientation."
  
• "gave several examples of disregard for gender equity concerns and poor treatment of female-identifying DAPER administrators."
  

I read both "gender" and "sexual" as modifiers for "orientation," i.e., "gender orientation" and "sexual orientation," but allowed for the possibility that the report was using Stanford's definition of gender (a "social construct") as a noun as opposed to sex (a biological phenomenon). But I still could not be sure, and thus used "appears." I agree with you that "appears" should be avoided, but given that we live in an age of language abuse where the plain meaning of words can no longer be taken at face value, I hedged. It is also possible that "female-identifying DAPER administrators" are actually females and not males identifying as females." And it is further possible, based only upon the report snippet on the screen, that the complainant is heterosexual and accusing Taylor of discrimination against heterosexuals. So yes, I drew several inferences, some of which may be incorrect, and would have no objection if my post is deleted, especially now that you have drawn attention to the name "Owen" that NBC Bay Area failed to redact.

It is possible that "Owen" is a surname. A person with that surname used to play for Tara VanDerveer, is a lawyer, used to work in the Stanford Department of Athletics, was a football administrator, has a feminine first name and "wife" with a feminine first name, and left Stanford in 2024 to become the AD at another university. Is that person actually the original complainant? That information has yet to be made public, but we can all draw our own inferences with the aid of a decent search engine. If "Owen" is that person, then Owen would appear to be a biological female who is homosexual—again, I cannot be sure. Whatever may be the actual identity, biological sex, and sexual preferences of the complainant, the complainant deserves to be treated with dignity and in a professional, humane manner. Troy Taylor deserves the same respect.

Moderators, no hard feelings if you delete my post that "PalmTree" references, or this one for that matter.

[PalmTree]

People who are unwilling to put their names to accusations for fear of losing their jobs are cowards and unprincipled.

The first person to file a complaint did so after going to Tara VanDerveer to ask for advice on what to do, and it was Coach VanDerveer who then brought forward concerns to the athletic department administration, per this reporting (about the 2:55 mark in the video):

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/sports/u...n/3825246/

Thank you for posting that NBC Bay Area report, which includes—at roughly the 1:00 mark—images of the purported O'Brien report. To the extent the O'Brien report is real, it appears that source of the original complaint is a male who identifies as a female and that the department employs multiple such individuals. <SNIP>

To start, I was taught early on in my professional career to avoid including"...it appears..." in any written communiction like the plague.  I slo-mo'ed the clip at about that point and NBC Bay Area made a MAJOR mistake by failing to fully redact the complainant's (last) name from the shot of the report they included at the ~1:00 mark.

My question is, is this name the basis on your assertion that the the complainant is a transgender (male) staff member, or is there other information you have to back up your assertion - if the former, I think you should retract your post unless you have evidence to the contrary, in which case, I'll be accept that and move on.

Don't get me wrong - I'm more interested in just the facts of the situation, and not speculation, which as we all know can easily send us off on tangents &/or down really ugly rabbit holes.  

Last, what I <really> friggin want is for the football ship to right itself and start an unprecedented chain of post-season bowl apprearances, though this may have to wait until the 2026 season.

Fair question and request. In the image posted in the report, under section A, these phrases appear:

• "alleging that Coach Taylor discriminated against her on the basis of her gender and sexual orientation."
  
• "gave several examples of disregard for gender equity concerns and poor treatment of female-identifying DAPER administrators."
  

I read both "gender" and "sexual" as modifiers for "orientation," i.e., "gender orientation" and "sexual orientation," but allowed for the possibility that the report was using Stanford's definition of gender (a "social construct") as a noun as opposed to sex (a biological phenomenon). But I still could not be sure, and thus used "appears." I agree with you that "appears" should be avoided, but given that we live in an age of language abuse where the plain meaning of words can no longer be taken at face value, I hedged. It is also possible that "female-identifying DAPER administrators" are actually females and not males identifying as females." And it is further possible, based only upon the report snippet on the screen, that the complainant is heterosexual and accusing Taylor of discrimination against heterosexuals. So yes, I drew several inferences, some of which may be incorrect, and would have no objection if my post is deleted, especially now that you have drawn attention to the name "Owen" that NBC Bay Area failed to redact.

It is possible that "Owen" is a surname. A person with that surname used to play for Tara VanDerveer, is a lawyer, used to work in the Stanford Department of Athletics, was a football administrator, has a feminine first name and "wife" with a feminine first name, and left Stanford in 2024 to become the AD at another university. Is that person actually the original complainant? That information has yet to be made public, but we can all draw our own inferences with the aid of a decent search engine. If "Owen" is that person, then Owen would appear to be a biological female who is homosexual—again, I cannot be sure. Whatever may be the actual identity, biological sex, and sexual preferences of the complainant, the complainant deserves to be treated with dignity and in a professional, humane manner. Troy Taylor deserves the same respect.

Moderators, no hard feelings if you delete my post that "PalmTree" references, or this one for that matter.

Branner - thanks immensely for your very thoughtful, civil and clear (to me - answered my questions perfectly) response.  Mods - I leave it to you as to how to proceed, but if I may, I will offer that this is an excellent example of the well-reasoned - & yes OK, as much as possible , "non-politcal" dialogue, I - and I hope, others - can hope to engage in and enjoy on this board. Peace out

So OK, moving on - let's GO MBB, and congrats WSwimming!

[PalmTree]

People who are unwilling to put their names to accusations for fear of losing their jobs are cowards and unprincipled.

The first person to file a complaint did so after going to Tara VanDerveer to ask for advice on what to do, and it was Coach VanDerveer who then brought forward concerns to the athletic department administration, per this reporting (about the 2:55 mark in the video):

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/sports/u...n/3825246/

Thank you for posting that NBC Bay Area report, which includes—at roughly the 1:00 mark—images of the purported O'Brien report. To the extent the O'Brien report is real, it appears that source of the original complaint is a male who identifies as a female and that the department employs multiple such individuals. <SNIP>

To start, I was taught early on in my professional career to avoid including"...it appears..." in any written communiction like the plague.  I slo-mo'ed the clip at about that point and NBC Bay Area made a MAJOR mistake by failing to fully redact the complainant's (last) name from the shot of the report they included at the ~1:00 mark.

My question is, is this name the basis on your assertion that the the complainant is a transgender (male) staff member, or is there other information you have to back up your assertion - if the former, I think you should retract your post unless you have evidence to the contrary, in which case, I'll be accept that and move on.

Don't get me wrong - I'm more interested in just the facts of the situation, and not speculation, which as we all know can easily send us off on tangents &/or down really ugly rabbit holes.  

Last, what I <really> friggin want is for the football ship to right itself and start an unprecedented chain of post-season bowl apprearances, though this may have to wait until the 2026 season.

Fair question and request. In the image posted in the report, under section A, these phrases appear:

• "alleging that Coach Taylor discriminated against her on the basis of her gender and sexual orientation."
  
• "gave several examples of disregard for gender equity concerns and poor treatment of female-identifying DAPER administrators."
  

I read both "gender" and "sexual" as modifiers for "orientation," i.e., "gender orientation" and "sexual orientation," but allowed for the possibility that the report was using Stanford's definition of gender (a "social construct") as a noun as opposed to sex (a biological phenomenon). But I still could not be sure, and thus used "appears." I agree with you that "appears" should be avoided, but given that we live in an age of language abuse where the plain meaning of words can no longer be taken at face value, I hedged. It is also possible that "female-identifying DAPER administrators" are actually females and not males identifying as females." And it is further possible, based only upon the report snippet on the screen, that the complainant is heterosexual and accusing Taylor of discrimination against heterosexuals. So yes, I drew several inferences, some of which may be incorrect, and would have no objection if my post is deleted, especially now that you have drawn attention to the name "Owen" that NBC Bay Area failed to redact.

It is possible that "Owen" is a surname. A person with that surname used to play for Tara VanDerveer, is a lawyer, used to work in the Stanford Department of Athletics, was a football administrator, has a feminine first name and "wife" with a feminine first name, and left Stanford in 2024 to become the AD at another university. Is that person actually the original complainant? That information has yet to be made public, but we can all draw our own inferences with the aid of a decent search engine. If "Owen" is that person, then Owen would appear to be a biological female who is homosexual—again, I cannot be sure. Whatever may be the actual identity, biological sex, and sexual preferences of the complainant, the complainant deserves to be treated with dignity and in a professional, humane manner. Troy Taylor deserves the same respect.

Moderators, no hard feelings if you delete my post that "PalmTree" references, or this one for that matter.

Branner - thanks immensely for your very thoughtful, civil and clear (to me - answered my questions perfectly) response.  Mods - I leave it to you as to how to proceed, but if I may, I will offer that this is an excellent example of the well-reasoned - & yes OK, as much as possible , "non-politcal" dialogue, I - and I hope, others - can hope to engage in and enjoy on this board. Peace out

So OK, moving on - let's GO MBB, and congrats WSwimming!

[82lsju]

I don't give a rats ass who TT bullied. According to two separate reports, he is a bully and has treated people horribly. He needs to go, there should be no place for mental abuse. 

May we assume that your position is that anyone at Stanford who bullies anyone else and treats others horribly? They need to go, full stop?

Is that not a fair extension of the Fundamental Standard?

Students at Stanford are expected to show both within and without the University such respect for order, morality, personal honor and the rights of others as is demanded of good citizens. Failure to do this will be sufficient cause for removal from the University.

I wonder how many people have violated the fundamental standard at least twice.

[82lsju]

I don't give a rats ass who TT bullied. According to two separate reports, he is a bully and has treated people horribly. He needs to go, there should be no place for mental abuse. 

May we assume that your position is that anyone at Stanford who bullies anyone else and treats others horribly? They need to go, full stop?

Is that not a fair extension of the Fundamental Standard?

Students at Stanford are expected to show both within and without the University such respect for order, morality, personal honor and the rights of others as is demanded of good citizens. Failure to do this will be sufficient cause for removal from the University.

I wonder how many people have violated the fundamental standard at least twice.

[ADPinWDC]

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootbal...roy-taylor
This article is dated yesterday. It may be a bit unfair to Andrew Luck, but the following quote seems to illustrate two things:

Luck didn’t respond to a request for comment from ESPN.com, even though Luck is Taylor’s immediate supervisor. Luck also served on the committee that hired Taylor in 2022.
Making sure Taylor complies with the school’s expectations becomes one of the most important things Luck will be doing during his first year on the job. And if Taylor in any way fails to act the way the school expects, Luck needs to be ready to initiate immediately the effort to dismiss Taylor.

This quote demonstrates that Andrew Luck is starting to be "held responsible" (Fairly or not) for the football program. Taylor's conduct is now viewed by some as Luck's responsibility. I hope Luck was prepared for this. The fact the head coach reports to the GM inevitably leads to that situation. So far, it has been a honeymoon period. It appears that is over.
 
The article also indicates FWIW that TT is still expected, at a minimum, to coach the 2025 season at Stanford.

Right -- Luck approved hiring Taylor, so he needs to make it work.  That's what a GM does.  People.  
Luck doesn't call plays or pick Starters.

[ADPinWDC]

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootbal...roy-taylor
This article is dated yesterday. It may be a bit unfair to Andrew Luck, but the following quote seems to illustrate two things:

Luck didn’t respond to a request for comment from ESPN.com, even though Luck is Taylor’s immediate supervisor. Luck also served on the committee that hired Taylor in 2022.
Making sure Taylor complies with the school’s expectations becomes one of the most important things Luck will be doing during his first year on the job. And if Taylor in any way fails to act the way the school expects, Luck needs to be ready to initiate immediately the effort to dismiss Taylor.

This quote demonstrates that Andrew Luck is starting to be "held responsible" (Fairly or not) for the football program. Taylor's conduct is now viewed by some as Luck's responsibility. I hope Luck was prepared for this. The fact the head coach reports to the GM inevitably leads to that situation. So far, it has been a honeymoon period. It appears that is over.
 
The article also indicates FWIW that TT is still expected, at a minimum, to coach the 2025 season at Stanford.

Right -- Luck approved hiring Taylor, so he needs to make it work.  That's what a GM does.  People.  
Luck doesn't call plays or pick Starters.

[needle]

The language used by the poster with the username branner ("cross-dressing staffers") is an unecessary provocation and flat-out offensive, and, more germane to this thread, branner was clearly wrong to assume that complaints about TT were made anonymously.

branner also opted to post (another) ill-informed assumption, all while declaiming the shortfalls of today's media when it comes to accuracy/slant, lol.

This thread has taken an awful turn, and I'm embarrased to have posted here. Good-bye.

[needle]

The language used by the poster with the username branner ("cross-dressing staffers") is an unecessary provocation and flat-out offensive, and, more germane to this thread, branner was clearly wrong to assume that complaints about TT were made anonymously.

branner also opted to post (another) ill-informed assumption, all while declaiming the shortfalls of today's media when it comes to accuracy/slant, lol.

This thread has taken an awful turn, and I'm embarrased to have posted here. Good-bye.

[Griffins78]

You’re not alone. I agree with you AND there are multiple incidents and people that TT treated horribly including the name not redacted. She left to become Athletic Director at another university.

What alternative universe am I living in? What alternative Cardboard is this? 

Multiple posters here don't appear to see an issue with bullying a person in the football program because simply they are trans. What does that matter? Are they good at their job is what matters. Do they do the work and are respected for their work? 

Bullies are bullies and mental abuse shouldn't be accepted anywhere, especially at places like Stanford where we supposedly hold ourselves to a higher standard. 

Finally, why am I seemingly the only one here thinking that tolerance of bullies should be color, and gender blind, no matter how fluid it is. . . .

[Griffins78]

You’re not alone. I agree with you AND there are multiple incidents and people that TT treated horribly including the name not redacted. She left to become Athletic Director at another university.

What alternative universe am I living in? What alternative Cardboard is this? 

Multiple posters here don't appear to see an issue with bullying a person in the football program because simply they are trans. What does that matter? Are they good at their job is what matters. Do they do the work and are respected for their work? 

Bullies are bullies and mental abuse shouldn't be accepted anywhere, especially at places like Stanford where we supposedly hold ourselves to a higher standard. 

Finally, why am I seemingly the only one here thinking that tolerance of bullies should be color, and gender blind, no matter how fluid it is. . . .

[2006alum]

Closing this thread, which has clearly gone off the rails, until we mods, and we posters, can regroup.

[2006alum]

Closing this thread, which has clearly gone off the rails, until we mods, and we posters, can regroup.