[PalmTree]

Another commit. 

https://www.instagram.com/p/DXaHHmbD6JF/...IwNjQ2YQ==

I like her!

I'm liking both our nEuros - also, agree on Ilse as a 4 and Sotelo, a 3.

[PalmTree]

Another commit. 

https://www.instagram.com/p/DXaHHmbD6JF/...IwNjQ2YQ==

I like her!

I'm liking both our nEuros - also, agree on Ilse as a 4 and Sotelo, a 3.

[BosCard]

de Vries is a quality pickup. Big body 6'3" who can block shots and shoot.

Impressed at her 3-point shooting.  She was a volume 3-point shooter (153 on the season) which is comparable to our top two in terms of 3-point shots from last year (Clardy at 164 and Somfai at 124).  But de Vries shot the 3 at a very respectable 38.6% vs 30.5% for Clardy and 29% for Somfai.  If she starts at the 3, we may need to play more zone defense because all the bigs on the floor will have a hard time defending ACC guards in man coverage.

I think de Vries is a 4. She's a lot bigger physically than Sotelo so I suspect we'll see de Vries at 4/5. 65 blocks with good timing. Sotelo looks more like a wing.

For a volume 3-point shooter (I am arbitrarily defining that as >100 shots in a season), de Vries' 38.6% is better than any Cardinal over the past 3 years and that includes Jump's last year where she shot 37.2%.  The year before that Jump shot the three at an astounding 44.1%.

[BosCard]

de Vries is a quality pickup. Big body 6'3" who can block shots and shoot.

Impressed at her 3-point shooting.  She was a volume 3-point shooter (153 on the season) which is comparable to our top two in terms of 3-point shots from last year (Clardy at 164 and Somfai at 124).  But de Vries shot the 3 at a very respectable 38.6% vs 30.5% for Clardy and 29% for Somfai.  If she starts at the 3, we may need to play more zone defense because all the bigs on the floor will have a hard time defending ACC guards in man coverage.

I think de Vries is a 4. She's a lot bigger physically than Sotelo so I suspect we'll see de Vries at 4/5. 65 blocks with good timing. Sotelo looks more like a wing.

For a volume 3-point shooter (I am arbitrarily defining that as >100 shots in a season), de Vries' 38.6% is better than any Cardinal over the past 3 years and that includes Jump's last year where she shot 37.2%.  The year before that Jump shot the three at an astounding 44.1%.

[qwerty49]

Hopefully, we'll see a different offense.

I don't recall Kate being a very exciting PG at all and I don't expect her offense to be any different than what was in her head way back in the day.  It always seemed to me that our relative success was due to individual stars outshining the limitations of the system.

[qwerty49]

Hopefully, we'll see a different offense.

I don't recall Kate being a very exciting PG at all and I don't expect her offense to be any different than what was in her head way back in the day.  It always seemed to me that our relative success was due to individual stars outshining the limitations of the system.

[81alum]

What really hurt is losing all our experienced upperclass: NuNu, Ogden, and Clardy... Throw in MAS too.

And all of them graduated (dunno about MAS).   I am beginning to think we may never keep another starting player for 4 years again.

[81alum]

What really hurt is losing all our experienced upperclass: NuNu, Ogden, and Clardy... Throw in MAS too.

And all of them graduated (dunno about MAS).   I am beginning to think we may never keep another starting player for 4 years again.

[2006alum]

What really hurt is losing all our experienced upperclass: NuNu, Ogden, and Clardy... Throw in MAS too.

And all of them graduated (dunno about MAS).   I am beginning to think we may never keep another starting player for 4 years again.

Ironically, we just did. Talana started all but three games in her four years playing for Stanford. 

I highly doubt if they were playing for a coach who they liked and who just led them to the Sweet 16 that Nunu, Chloe, or Courtney would have transferred. I think, rather, they'd like to go someplace where they enjoy their coaches and they win on the court. We've had a grad transfer phenomenon for a long time but until Tara retired (and Kiki went to U$C), they were mostly players who were getting "recruited over" by underclassmen (Sniezek, Dodson, Brown, Carrington (who was not afforded a spot to stay since the extra scholly went to Ana Wilson)). If we have a good team culture and success on the court, I think we'll lose the occasional grad transfer but there's no reason to think it'll become an epidemic.

[2006alum]

What really hurt is losing all our experienced upperclass: NuNu, Ogden, and Clardy... Throw in MAS too.

And all of them graduated (dunno about MAS).   I am beginning to think we may never keep another starting player for 4 years again.

Ironically, we just did. Talana started all but three games in her four years playing for Stanford. 

I highly doubt if they were playing for a coach who they liked and who just led them to the Sweet 16 that Nunu, Chloe, or Courtney would have transferred. I think, rather, they'd like to go someplace where they enjoy their coaches and they win on the court. We've had a grad transfer phenomenon for a long time but until Tara retired (and Kiki went to U$C), they were mostly players who were getting "recruited over" by underclassmen (Sniezek, Dodson, Brown, Carrington (who was not afforded a spot to stay since the extra scholly went to Ana Wilson)). If we have a good team culture and success on the court, I think we'll lose the occasional grad transfer but there's no reason to think it'll become an epidemic.

[Spiny_Norman]

I am beginning to think we may never keep another starting player for 4 years again.

They are exceedingly rare in men's basketball. 

Out of all of high major D1 men's basketball, there were only 22 scholarship seniors who played their entire careers at a single school (i.e., finished their careers where they started). I have not been able to find a comparable number for women's basketball. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnF7y8PiRTI

[Spiny_Norman]

I am beginning to think we may never keep another starting player for 4 years again.

They are exceedingly rare in men's basketball. 

Out of all of high major D1 men's basketball, there were only 22 scholarship seniors who played their entire careers at a single school (i.e., finished their careers where they started). I have not been able to find a comparable number for women's basketball. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnF7y8PiRTI

[81alum]

What really hurt is losing all our experienced upperclass: NuNu, Ogden, and Clardy... Throw in MAS too.

And all of them graduated (dunno about MAS).   I am beginning to think we may never keep another starting player for 4 years again.

 If we have a good team culture and success on the court, I think we'll lose the occasional grad transfer but there's no reason to think it'll become an epidemic.

/
I think there are two reasons to think it will be.  First, Stanford has made it possible for its players to graduate in 3 years.  That would have been impossible or difficult in decades past.  And second, there will always be lucrative deals with piles of money awaiting our graduating WBB players.  Turning down the money to stay for a fourth year when they already have the degree--that may not happen even for a coach they like.  On the other hand, if it really is all about the coach, maybe this helps to explain Kiki's decision, knowing she would be playing for Paye in her senior year. I guess we will only find out if we get a good coach and see whether it really makes any difference or not.

[81alum]

What really hurt is losing all our experienced upperclass: NuNu, Ogden, and Clardy... Throw in MAS too.

And all of them graduated (dunno about MAS).   I am beginning to think we may never keep another starting player for 4 years again.

 If we have a good team culture and success on the court, I think we'll lose the occasional grad transfer but there's no reason to think it'll become an epidemic.

/
I think there are two reasons to think it will be.  First, Stanford has made it possible for its players to graduate in 3 years.  That would have been impossible or difficult in decades past.  And second, there will always be lucrative deals with piles of money awaiting our graduating WBB players.  Turning down the money to stay for a fourth year when they already have the degree--that may not happen even for a coach they like.  On the other hand, if it really is all about the coach, maybe this helps to explain Kiki's decision, knowing she would be playing for Paye in her senior year. I guess we will only find out if we get a good coach and see whether it really makes any difference or not.

[2006alum]

I'm not sure we ever got to the bottom of it, but there was at least an allegation the coaches were making it harder for underclassmen to graduate in three years by limiting the number of credits. Not sure if that was true or not.

[2006alum]

I'm not sure we ever got to the bottom of it, but there was at least an allegation the coaches were making it harder for underclassmen to graduate in three years by limiting the number of credits. Not sure if that was true or not.

[Treebound]

What really hurt is losing all our experienced upperclass: NuNu, Ogden, and Clardy... Throw in MAS too.

And all of them graduated (dunno about MAS).   I am beginning to think we may never keep another starting player for 4 years again.

 If we have a good team culture and success on the court, I think we'll lose the occasional grad transfer but there's no reason to think it'll become an epidemic.

/

I think there are two reasons to think it will be.  First, Stanford has made it possible for its players to graduate in 3 years.  That would have been impossible or difficult in decades past.  And second, there will always be lucrative deals with piles of money awaiting our graduating WBB players.  Turning down the money to stay for a fourth year when they already have the degree--that may not happen even for a coach they like.  On the other hand, if it really is all about the coach, maybe this helps to explain Kiki's decision, knowing she would be playing for Paye in her senior year. I guess we will only find out if we get a good coach and see whether it really makes any difference or not.

A couple of thoughts:
1) This should be a major wake up call for Paye and I'm fairly certain that JD has taken this very seriously.   How much she can evolve/change for the better is a big question, but motivation should be high.  The culture needs to change and likely some personnel too.

2) Re grad transfers - Stanford enables many of our student athletes to take summer classes and some transfer in with units.  I don't begrudge them going to get another degree from another program as it can be very hard to get into or participate in most of our programs as a new grad and an athlete.  

3) As John Madden often said:  "Winning is the best deodorant!  It masks a lot of stink."  Yes, I'm hopeful the program can both improve its culture and go deep in the Dance.  That will help on multiple fronts.  Paye needs to focus and change...not easy, but necessary.

[Treebound]

What really hurt is losing all our experienced upperclass: NuNu, Ogden, and Clardy... Throw in MAS too.

And all of them graduated (dunno about MAS).   I am beginning to think we may never keep another starting player for 4 years again.

 If we have a good team culture and success on the court, I think we'll lose the occasional grad transfer but there's no reason to think it'll become an epidemic.

/

I think there are two reasons to think it will be.  First, Stanford has made it possible for its players to graduate in 3 years.  That would have been impossible or difficult in decades past.  And second, there will always be lucrative deals with piles of money awaiting our graduating WBB players.  Turning down the money to stay for a fourth year when they already have the degree--that may not happen even for a coach they like.  On the other hand, if it really is all about the coach, maybe this helps to explain Kiki's decision, knowing she would be playing for Paye in her senior year. I guess we will only find out if we get a good coach and see whether it really makes any difference or not.

A couple of thoughts:
1) This should be a major wake up call for Paye and I'm fairly certain that JD has taken this very seriously.   How much she can evolve/change for the better is a big question, but motivation should be high.  The culture needs to change and likely some personnel too.

2) Re grad transfers - Stanford enables many of our student athletes to take summer classes and some transfer in with units.  I don't begrudge them going to get another degree from another program as it can be very hard to get into or participate in most of our programs as a new grad and an athlete.  

3) As John Madden often said:  "Winning is the best deodorant!  It masks a lot of stink."  Yes, I'm hopeful the program can both improve its culture and go deep in the Dance.  That will help on multiple fronts.  Paye needs to focus and change...not easy, but necessary.

[Goose]

I think there are two reasons to think it will be.  First, Stanford has made it possible for its players to graduate in 3 years.  That would have been impossible or difficult in decades past.  And second, there will always be lucrative deals with piles of money awaiting our graduating WBB players.  Turning down the money to stay for a fourth year when they already have the degree--that may not happen even for a coach they like.

Totally agree. If the player in question really likes the coach it might help a bit, but if the offers from the other schools are for more money it is unlikely to be sufficient to retain them. One must also ask what will these grad transfers accomplish academically if they stay an extra year. PostBac in general isn't going to move any needles. If they can get more money and an actual graduate degree elsewhere, they would be fools not to take it. Add to that the opportunity to expand their horizons beyond Stanford which for many students is attractive all by itself.

[Goose]

I think there are two reasons to think it will be.  First, Stanford has made it possible for its players to graduate in 3 years.  That would have been impossible or difficult in decades past.  And second, there will always be lucrative deals with piles of money awaiting our graduating WBB players.  Turning down the money to stay for a fourth year when they already have the degree--that may not happen even for a coach they like.

Totally agree. If the player in question really likes the coach it might help a bit, but if the offers from the other schools are for more money it is unlikely to be sufficient to retain them. One must also ask what will these grad transfers accomplish academically if they stay an extra year. PostBac in general isn't going to move any needles. If they can get more money and an actual graduate degree elsewhere, they would be fools not to take it. Add to that the opportunity to expand their horizons beyond Stanford which for many students is attractive all by itself.

[jonnyss]

Another commit. 

https://www.instagram.com/p/DXaHHmbD6JF/...IwNjQ2YQ==

her stats indeed look good, but what about the competition? is 3rd team mid-america conference good enough? iirc we looked great against mid-major teams last year - just not against power 5 teams. i worry she is a step down from MAS, who came in as freshman of the year in the big 10.

[jonnyss]

Another commit. 

https://www.instagram.com/p/DXaHHmbD6JF/...IwNjQ2YQ==

her stats indeed look good, but what about the competition? is 3rd team mid-america conference good enough? iirc we looked great against mid-major teams last year - just not against power 5 teams. i worry she is a step down from MAS, who came in as freshman of the year in the big 10.

[stopandpop]

Another commit. 

https://www.instagram.com/p/DXaHHmbD6JF/...IwNjQ2YQ==

her stats indeed look good, but what about the competition? is 3rd team mid-america conference good enough? iirc we looked great against mid-major teams last year - just not against power 5 teams. i worry she is a step down from MAS, who came in as freshman of the year in the big 10.

There has been discussion about de Vries earlier in this thread, but her length, talent, footwork and defense is head and shoulders above MAS. MAS can't jump and she's terribly mechanical.  de Vries' Euro-style offense (effectively taking her defender from the high post down into the block and scoring) and her ability to hit the 3, makes her a better all around player than Somfai in my book.  de Vries is also strong.

---

de Vries is a quality pickup. Big body 6'3" who can block shots and shoot.

Impressed at her 3-point shooting.  She was a volume 3-point shooter (153 on the season) which is comparable to our top two in terms of 3-point shots from last year (Clardy at 164 and Somfai at 124).  But de Vries shot the 3 at a very respectable 38.6% vs 30.5% for Clardy and 29% for Somfai.  If she starts at the 3, we may need to play more zone defense because all the bigs on the floor will have a hard time defending ACC guards in man coverage.

I think de Vries is a 4. She's a lot bigger physically than Sotelo so I suspect we'll see de Vries at 4/5. 65 blocks with good timing. Sotelo looks more like a wing.

For a volume 3-point shooter (I am arbitrarily defining that as >100 shots in a season), de Vries' 38.6% is better than any Cardinal over the past 3 years and that includes Jump's last year where she shot 37.2%.  The year before that Jump shot the three at an astounding 44.1%.

Perhaps Stanford has found their 3-point shooter in de Vries.  I agree with those of you who think she starts at a 4.  For those who are concerned that she played for a mid-major, Kentucky wanted de Vries badly.  Southern Cal just picked up Ryann Bennett from mid-major UC Davis at the guard position.  For all we have said about Paye, I give her credit for picking up two high quality players from the portal.  Hopefully, there will be more.

[stopandpop]

Another commit. 

https://www.instagram.com/p/DXaHHmbD6JF/...IwNjQ2YQ==

her stats indeed look good, but what about the competition? is 3rd team mid-america conference good enough? iirc we looked great against mid-major teams last year - just not against power 5 teams. i worry she is a step down from MAS, who came in as freshman of the year in the big 10.

There has been discussion about de Vries earlier in this thread, but her length, talent, footwork and defense is head and shoulders above MAS. MAS can't jump and she's terribly mechanical.  de Vries' Euro-style offense (effectively taking her defender from the high post down into the block and scoring) and her ability to hit the 3, makes her a better all around player than Somfai in my book.  de Vries is also strong.

---

de Vries is a quality pickup. Big body 6'3" who can block shots and shoot.

Impressed at her 3-point shooting.  She was a volume 3-point shooter (153 on the season) which is comparable to our top two in terms of 3-point shots from last year (Clardy at 164 and Somfai at 124).  But de Vries shot the 3 at a very respectable 38.6% vs 30.5% for Clardy and 29% for Somfai.  If she starts at the 3, we may need to play more zone defense because all the bigs on the floor will have a hard time defending ACC guards in man coverage.

I think de Vries is a 4. She's a lot bigger physically than Sotelo so I suspect we'll see de Vries at 4/5. 65 blocks with good timing. Sotelo looks more like a wing.

For a volume 3-point shooter (I am arbitrarily defining that as >100 shots in a season), de Vries' 38.6% is better than any Cardinal over the past 3 years and that includes Jump's last year where she shot 37.2%.  The year before that Jump shot the three at an astounding 44.1%.

Perhaps Stanford has found their 3-point shooter in de Vries.  I agree with those of you who think she starts at a 4.  For those who are concerned that she played for a mid-major, Kentucky wanted de Vries badly.  Southern Cal just picked up Ryann Bennett from mid-major UC Davis at the guard position.  For all we have said about Paye, I give her credit for picking up two high quality players from the portal.  Hopefully, there will be more.

[2006alum]

Well at least the homerism is back in action. The idea that either of these pickups is better than Somfai is pretty funny, but I understand the value of motivated reasoning on a fan board. To the extent MAS seems worse than de Vries, one might ask why MAS was more successful on an equivalent stage to Stanford (the Big Ten) as a freshman than she was two years later as a junior with us. I suspect the honest answer is lack of player development and X's and O's. Will be very interesting to see how the half of last year's team that fled develops next year compared to our lot. If they aren't announcing any changes to the coaching roster, there is no rational reason to think things are going to be different next season.

[2006alum]

Well at least the homerism is back in action. The idea that either of these pickups is better than Somfai is pretty funny, but I understand the value of motivated reasoning on a fan board. To the extent MAS seems worse than de Vries, one might ask why MAS was more successful on an equivalent stage to Stanford (the Big Ten) as a freshman than she was two years later as a junior with us. I suspect the honest answer is lack of player development and X's and O's. Will be very interesting to see how the half of last year's team that fled develops next year compared to our lot. If they aren't announcing any changes to the coaching roster, there is no rational reason to think things are going to be different next season.

[qwerty49]

Well at least the homerism is back in action. The idea that either of these pickups is better than Somfai is pretty funny, but I understand the value of motivated reasoning on a fan board. To the extent MAS seems worse than de Vries, one might ask why MAS was more successful on an equivalent stage to Stanford (the Big Ten) as a freshman than she was two years later as a junior with us. I suspect the honest answer is lack of player development and X's and O's. Will be very interesting to see how the half of last year's team that fled develops next year compared to our lot. If they aren't announcing any changes to the coaching roster, there is no rational reason to think things are going to be different next season.

I only saw a few games on TV but IMHO, MAS consistently seemed a half step too slow on both O and D. I’m not sure how much of a difference player development would have made in her case.

[qwerty49]

Well at least the homerism is back in action. The idea that either of these pickups is better than Somfai is pretty funny, but I understand the value of motivated reasoning on a fan board. To the extent MAS seems worse than de Vries, one might ask why MAS was more successful on an equivalent stage to Stanford (the Big Ten) as a freshman than she was two years later as a junior with us. I suspect the honest answer is lack of player development and X's and O's. Will be very interesting to see how the half of last year's team that fled develops next year compared to our lot. If they aren't announcing any changes to the coaching roster, there is no rational reason to think things are going to be different next season.

I only saw a few games on TV but IMHO, MAS consistently seemed a half step too slow on both O and D. I’m not sure how much of a difference player development would have made in her case.

[Goose]

Will be very interesting to see how the half of last year's team that fled develops next year compared to our lot. If they aren't announcing any changes to the coaching roster, there is no rational reason to think things are going to be different next season.

I don't at all agree. There are plenty of "rational" reasons to think things are "going to be different". Obviously the results on the court this year aren't what the players, coaches, and fans wanted to see. Even the same coaches coming back are going to be looking for answers. They will also have at least some different players. IMO it is certain there will be changes and some things will be "different". Exactly what will be "different" and whether those differences will be "enough" is an unknown. The fact the coaches were unable to effect the necessary "differences" this year indeed makes one wonder whether they can do it going forward, but they will undoubtedly try "something".

[Goose]

Will be very interesting to see how the half of last year's team that fled develops next year compared to our lot. If they aren't announcing any changes to the coaching roster, there is no rational reason to think things are going to be different next season.

I don't at all agree. There are plenty of "rational" reasons to think things are "going to be different". Obviously the results on the court this year aren't what the players, coaches, and fans wanted to see. Even the same coaches coming back are going to be looking for answers. They will also have at least some different players. IMO it is certain there will be changes and some things will be "different". Exactly what will be "different" and whether those differences will be "enough" is an unknown. The fact the coaches were unable to effect the necessary "differences" this year indeed makes one wonder whether they can do it going forward, but they will undoubtedly try "something".

[jonnyss]

Well at least the homerism is back in action. The idea that either of these pickups is better than Somfai is pretty funny, but I understand the value of motivated reasoning on a fan board. To the extent MAS seems worse than de Vries, one might ask why MAS was more successful on an equivalent stage to Stanford (the Big Ten) as a freshman than she was two years later as a junior with us. I suspect the honest answer is lack of player development and X's and O's. Will be very interesting to see how the half of last year's team that fled develops next year compared to our lot. If they aren't announcing any changes to the coaching roster, there is no rational reason to think things are going to be different next season.

I only saw a few games on TV but IMHO, MAS consistently seemed a half step too slow on both O and D. I’m not sure how much of a difference player development would have made in her case.

perhaps you didn't watch the wbit quinnipiac game? to my eyes it was the only game in which kate gave mas the green light to drive, and the results were eye-opening: 10 points on 100% shooting and 9 rebounds in 16 minutes play. suddenly she wasn't hesitant (slow) at all. i suspect the coaches had shackles on mas for her tenure at stanford. one of several problems with having a coaching staff of mostly ex-stanford players might be, do the coaches have experience with any style of play other than tara-light?
-

[jonnyss]

Well at least the homerism is back in action. The idea that either of these pickups is better than Somfai is pretty funny, but I understand the value of motivated reasoning on a fan board. To the extent MAS seems worse than de Vries, one might ask why MAS was more successful on an equivalent stage to Stanford (the Big Ten) as a freshman than she was two years later as a junior with us. I suspect the honest answer is lack of player development and X's and O's. Will be very interesting to see how the half of last year's team that fled develops next year compared to our lot. If they aren't announcing any changes to the coaching roster, there is no rational reason to think things are going to be different next season.

I only saw a few games on TV but IMHO, MAS consistently seemed a half step too slow on both O and D. I’m not sure how much of a difference player development would have made in her case.

perhaps you didn't watch the wbit quinnipiac game? to my eyes it was the only game in which kate gave mas the green light to drive, and the results were eye-opening: 10 points on 100% shooting and 9 rebounds in 16 minutes play. suddenly she wasn't hesitant (slow) at all. i suspect the coaches had shackles on mas for her tenure at stanford. one of several problems with having a coaching staff of mostly ex-stanford players might be, do the coaches have experience with any style of play other than tara-light?
-

[pefloresjr]

Well at least the homerism is back in action. The idea that either of these pickups is better than Somfai is pretty funny, but I understand the value of motivated reasoning on a fan board. To the extent MAS seems worse than de Vries, one might ask why MAS was more successful on an equivalent stage to Stanford (the Big Ten) as a freshman than she was two years later as a junior with us. I suspect the honest answer is lack of player development and X's and O's. Will be very interesting to see how the half of last year's team that fled develops next year compared to our lot. If they aren't announcing any changes to the coaching roster, there is no rational reason to think things are going to be different next season.

I only saw a few games on TV but IMHO, MAS consistently seemed a half step too slow on both O and D. I’m not sure how much of a difference player development would have made in her case.

perhaps you didn't watch the wbit quinnipiac game? to my eyes it was the only game in which kate gave mas the green light to drive, and the results were eye-opening: 10 points on 100% shooting and 9 rebounds in 16 minutes play. suddenly she wasn't hesitant (slow) at all. i suspect the coaches had shackles on mas for her tenure at stanford. one of several problems with having a coaching staff of mostly ex-stanford players might be, do the coaches have experience with any style of play other than tara-light?
-

Sorry, but that doesn't match the reality I saw through the season.  MAS had plenty of chances to drive in other games but wasn't able to successfully finish the plays when she did.  I see no evidence that Coach Paye is responsible by putting shackles on her in other games.  What is more likely is that MAS, like the team, played much better against weaker competition but wasn't able to do so against higher level teams with more athletic players.  I'm not saying the coaching doesn't have plenty of issues, but attributing every single issue to coaching, as opposed to many other considerations, like skill and athleticism, just doesn't add up.  

Cheers,
Pete F.

[pefloresjr]

Well at least the homerism is back in action. The idea that either of these pickups is better than Somfai is pretty funny, but I understand the value of motivated reasoning on a fan board. To the extent MAS seems worse than de Vries, one might ask why MAS was more successful on an equivalent stage to Stanford (the Big Ten) as a freshman than she was two years later as a junior with us. I suspect the honest answer is lack of player development and X's and O's. Will be very interesting to see how the half of last year's team that fled develops next year compared to our lot. If they aren't announcing any changes to the coaching roster, there is no rational reason to think things are going to be different next season.

I only saw a few games on TV but IMHO, MAS consistently seemed a half step too slow on both O and D. I’m not sure how much of a difference player development would have made in her case.

perhaps you didn't watch the wbit quinnipiac game? to my eyes it was the only game in which kate gave mas the green light to drive, and the results were eye-opening: 10 points on 100% shooting and 9 rebounds in 16 minutes play. suddenly she wasn't hesitant (slow) at all. i suspect the coaches had shackles on mas for her tenure at stanford. one of several problems with having a coaching staff of mostly ex-stanford players might be, do the coaches have experience with any style of play other than tara-light?
-

Sorry, but that doesn't match the reality I saw through the season.  MAS had plenty of chances to drive in other games but wasn't able to successfully finish the plays when she did.  I see no evidence that Coach Paye is responsible by putting shackles on her in other games.  What is more likely is that MAS, like the team, played much better against weaker competition but wasn't able to do so against higher level teams with more athletic players.  I'm not saying the coaching doesn't have plenty of issues, but attributing every single issue to coaching, as opposed to many other considerations, like skill and athleticism, just doesn't add up.  

Cheers,
Pete F.

[BostonCard]

perhaps you didn't watch the wbit quinnipiac game? to my eyes it was the only game in which kate gave mas the green light to drive, and the results were eye-opening: 10 points on 100% shooting and 9 rebounds in 16 minutes play. suddenly she wasn't hesitant (slow) at all. i suspect the coaches had shackles on mas for her tenure at stanford. one of several problems with having a coaching staff of mostly ex-stanford players might be, do the coaches have experience with any style of play other than tara-light?
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Just curious what the evidence is that the difference was Paye giving Stevenson the green light on that particular game versus not (every other game).  Isn’t the more likely explanation that MAS had a decided advantage against a mid-major team defender?  I think the coach just randomly deciding to unshackle a player for one and only one game doesn’t really pass Occam’s razor.

BC

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I don't recall Kate being a very exciting PG at all and I don't expect her offense to be any different than what was in her head way back in the day.  It always seemed to me that our relative success was due to individual stars outshining the limitations of the system.

Wasn’t Jamila Wideman the PG on those teams?  I always thought Kate Paye was the shooting guard.

BC

[BostonCard]

perhaps you didn't watch the wbit quinnipiac game? to my eyes it was the only game in which kate gave mas the green light to drive, and the results were eye-opening: 10 points on 100% shooting and 9 rebounds in 16 minutes play. suddenly she wasn't hesitant (slow) at all. i suspect the coaches had shackles on mas for her tenure at stanford. one of several problems with having a coaching staff of mostly ex-stanford players might be, do the coaches have experience with any style of play other than tara-light?
-

Just curious what the evidence is that the difference was Paye giving Stevenson the green light on that particular game versus not (every other game).  Isn’t the more likely explanation that MAS had a decided advantage against a mid-major team defender?  I think the coach just randomly deciding to unshackle a player for one and only one game doesn’t really pass Occam’s razor.

BC

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I don't recall Kate being a very exciting PG at all and I don't expect her offense to be any different than what was in her head way back in the day.  It always seemed to me that our relative success was due to individual stars outshining the limitations of the system.

Wasn’t Jamila Wideman the PG on those teams?  I always thought Kate Paye was the shooting guard.

BC

[DaddyG]

This is MAS’ father so of course I admit that I am biased.  For those of you taking shots at my daughter, let me remind you that she had 330 points and 180 rebounds as a freshman in the Big 10 and was both freshman of the year and honorable mention All Big 10 that year. She can run, jump, shoot and score.  She can defend and rebound.  All of those things were well documented before she came here.  And please remember the Big 10 is a better conference than the ACC, at least according to the number of teams who made the NCAA tournament the last two years. 

Besides her, this year’s team was full of highly regarded players including multiple McDonald’s All Americans and the second best recruiting class in the country last year. And they got along very well with each other both on and off the court. They are high-quality kids.

Seven underclassmen are leaving the program; including the two undergraduate captains and many of the players who played the most minutes and were the top scorers and rebounders. They are going to TCU, Michigan, UNC, Cal, Tennessee, Maryland and Columbia, which are all highly regarded in WBB. 

FYI, MAS chose Columbia because it is a great school (still needs to finish her degree) and they have a strong program (won the WBIT by beating BYU by double digits).  

So apparently, the women’s college basketball world believes these 7 girls can play, just like the quality players who are staying. 

I would caution anyone on this forum against taking shots at any player, whether they are leaving or staying.  There are a number of factors that contribute to whether a kid plays well or not at a particular program or with a certain coaching staff.

[DaddyG]

This is MAS’ father so of course I admit that I am biased.  For those of you taking shots at my daughter, let me remind you that she had 330 points and 180 rebounds as a freshman in the Big 10 and was both freshman of the year and honorable mention All Big 10 that year. She can run, jump, shoot and score.  She can defend and rebound.  All of those things were well documented before she came here.  And please remember the Big 10 is a better conference than the ACC, at least according to the number of teams who made the NCAA tournament the last two years. 

Besides her, this year’s team was full of highly regarded players including multiple McDonald’s All Americans and the second best recruiting class in the country last year. And they got along very well with each other both on and off the court. They are high-quality kids.

Seven underclassmen are leaving the program; including the two undergraduate captains and many of the players who played the most minutes and were the top scorers and rebounders. They are going to TCU, Michigan, UNC, Cal, Tennessee, Maryland and Columbia, which are all highly regarded in WBB. 

FYI, MAS chose Columbia because it is a great school (still needs to finish her degree) and they have a strong program (won the WBIT by beating BYU by double digits).  

So apparently, the women’s college basketball world believes these 7 girls can play, just like the quality players who are staying. 

I would caution anyone on this forum against taking shots at any player, whether they are leaving or staying.  There are a number of factors that contribute to whether a kid plays well or not at a particular program or with a certain coaching staff.

[Nurdyguy]

Well at least the homerism is back in action. The idea that either of these pickups is better than Somfai is pretty funny, but I understand the value of motivated reasoning on a fan board. To the extent MAS seems worse than de Vries, one might ask why MAS was more successful on an equivalent stage to Stanford (the Big Ten) as a freshman than she was two years later as a junior with us. I suspect the honest answer is lack of player development and X's and O's. Will be very interesting to see how the half of last year's team that fled develops next year compared to our lot. If they aren't announcing any changes to the coaching roster, there is no rational reason to think things are going to be different next season.

I only saw a few games on TV but IMHO, MAS consistently seemed a half step too slow on both O and D. I’m not sure how much of a difference player development would have made in her case.

perhaps you didn't watch the wbit quinnipiac game? to my eyes it was the only game in which kate gave mas the green light to drive, and the results were eye-opening: 10 points on 100% shooting and 9 rebounds in 16 minutes play. suddenly she wasn't hesitant (slow) at all. i suspect the coaches had shackles on mas for her tenure at stanford. one of several problems with having a coaching staff of mostly ex-stanford players might be, do the coaches have experience with any style of play other than tara-light?
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Sorry, but that doesn't match the reality I saw through the season.  MAS had plenty of chances to drive in other games but wasn't able to successfully finish the plays when she did.  I see no evidence that Coach Paye is responsible by putting shackles on her in other games.  What is more likely is that MAS, like the team, played much better against weaker competition but wasn't able to do so against higher level teams with more athletic players.  I'm not saying the coaching doesn't have plenty of issues, but attributing every single issue to coaching, as opposed to many other considerations, like skill and athleticism, just doesn't add up.  

Cheers,
Pete F.

I agree, and, quite frankly, I think one of the many factors limiting Stanford WBB's success has been subpar conditioning.  Ultimately, I blame the players for a lack of focus on their fitness, but I also question whether Stanford has the necessary commitment to athlete strength and conditioning.  I'm not in their training sessions, but their lack of fitness sure shows on the court, both in how the uniform fits and how they move.  I never saw MAS play as a freshman, but during her entire time at Stanford, she did not look fit at all.  Nunu always looked fit, however she was perennially injured, which was disappointing.  Chloe Cardy and Courtney Ogden always seemed to be dragging extra pounds around the court, which is death for basketball players.  Betts was so out of shape during her freshman year, but I must admit that this year UCLA got her looking fit as a fiddle.  Among the many issues I hope to see Stanford WBB improve is player fitness.  I do believe that Stanford has the best food of any D1 program, however, so this might be a tall order for us.

[Nurdyguy]

Well at least the homerism is back in action. The idea that either of these pickups is better than Somfai is pretty funny, but I understand the value of motivated reasoning on a fan board. To the extent MAS seems worse than de Vries, one might ask why MAS was more successful on an equivalent stage to Stanford (the Big Ten) as a freshman than she was two years later as a junior with us. I suspect the honest answer is lack of player development and X's and O's. Will be very interesting to see how the half of last year's team that fled develops next year compared to our lot. If they aren't announcing any changes to the coaching roster, there is no rational reason to think things are going to be different next season.

I only saw a few games on TV but IMHO, MAS consistently seemed a half step too slow on both O and D. I’m not sure how much of a difference player development would have made in her case.

perhaps you didn't watch the wbit quinnipiac game? to my eyes it was the only game in which kate gave mas the green light to drive, and the results were eye-opening: 10 points on 100% shooting and 9 rebounds in 16 minutes play. suddenly she wasn't hesitant (slow) at all. i suspect the coaches had shackles on mas for her tenure at stanford. one of several problems with having a coaching staff of mostly ex-stanford players might be, do the coaches have experience with any style of play other than tara-light?
-

Sorry, but that doesn't match the reality I saw through the season.  MAS had plenty of chances to drive in other games but wasn't able to successfully finish the plays when she did.  I see no evidence that Coach Paye is responsible by putting shackles on her in other games.  What is more likely is that MAS, like the team, played much better against weaker competition but wasn't able to do so against higher level teams with more athletic players.  I'm not saying the coaching doesn't have plenty of issues, but attributing every single issue to coaching, as opposed to many other considerations, like skill and athleticism, just doesn't add up.  

Cheers,
Pete F.

I agree, and, quite frankly, I think one of the many factors limiting Stanford WBB's success has been subpar conditioning.  Ultimately, I blame the players for a lack of focus on their fitness, but I also question whether Stanford has the necessary commitment to athlete strength and conditioning.  I'm not in their training sessions, but their lack of fitness sure shows on the court, both in how the uniform fits and how they move.  I never saw MAS play as a freshman, but during her entire time at Stanford, she did not look fit at all.  Nunu always looked fit, however she was perennially injured, which was disappointing.  Chloe Cardy and Courtney Ogden always seemed to be dragging extra pounds around the court, which is death for basketball players.  Betts was so out of shape during her freshman year, but I must admit that this year UCLA got her looking fit as a fiddle.  Among the many issues I hope to see Stanford WBB improve is player fitness.  I do believe that Stanford has the best food of any D1 program, however, so this might be a tall order for us.