Impressed w/ the Neophyte Coaches Shaw Just Hired?

Impressed w/ the Neophyte Coaches Shaw Just Hired? - Printable Version

+- The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board)
+-- Forum: C-House! (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: Impressed w/ the Neophyte Coaches Shaw Just Hired? (/thread-23301.html)

Pages: 1 2

Impressed w/ the Neophyte Coaches Shaw Just Hired? - MV72018 - 07-13-2022

Sorry, I'm not. The day that Shaw brings in someone with well-honed offensive coordinator skills and a refined strategic sense will be the day hell freezes over. The newbies look like glorified grad assistants. They won't have the standing to challenge Shaw when he makes another predictable or hyper-conservative call on O. I'm sure Shaw likes that just fine.

RE: Impressed w/ the Neophyte Coaches Shaw Just Hired? - cardcrimson - 07-13-2022

Must have missed the announcement. Who'd he hire and for what?

RE: Impressed w/ the Neophyte Coaches Shaw Just Hired? - OutsiderFan - 07-13-2022

https://247sports.com/college/stanford/Article/Stanford-football-Dorian-Keller-Corey-Edsall-adds-two-coaches-to-support-staff--189949142/

In no program are low level hires going to make a material impact that fans can appreciate on the field. I mean I've yet to hear fans ever bitch about the assistant OL coach or offensive analyst when their team is getting pwned.

RE: Impressed w/ the Neophyte Coaches Shaw Just Hired? - BobK - 07-13-2022

(07-13-2022, 01:28 PM)cardcrimson Wrote: Must have missed the announcement. Who'd he hire and for what?

2 offensive quality control analysts
Not coaches per se

RE: Impressed w/ the Neophyte Coaches Shaw Just Hired? - gailtate - 07-14-2022

(07-13-2022, 01:37 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: https://247sports.com/college/stanford/Article/Stanford-football-Dorian-Keller-Corey-Edsall-adds-two-coaches-to-support-staff--189949142/

In no program are low level hires going to make a material impact that fans can appreciate on the field. I mean I've yet to hear fans ever bitch about the assistant OL coach or offensive analyst when their team is getting pwned.

I cannot recall a moment in recent years when I appreciated ANYTHING of impact that I saw on the field except for Bryce Love. Beyond him, nada. Nada thing. Muchas gracias, coach. And thanks for all you do, too, Bernie. As Chris Collinsworth would add, "Duh, we appreciate your service!"

RE: Impressed w/ the Neophyte Coaches Shaw Just Hired? - msqueri - 07-14-2022

(07-14-2022, 08:27 AM)gailtate Wrote:
(07-13-2022, 01:37 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: https://247sports.com/college/stanford/Article/Stanford-football-Dorian-Keller-Corey-Edsall-adds-two-coaches-to-support-staff--189949142/

In no program are low level hires going to make a material impact that fans can appreciate on the field. I mean I've yet to hear fans ever bitch about the assistant OL coach or offensive analyst when their team is getting pwned.

I cannot recall a moment in recent years when I appreciated ANYTHING of impact that I saw on the field except for Bryce Love. Beyond him, nada. Nada thing. Muchas gracias, coach. And thanks for all you do, too, Bernie. As Chris Collinsworth would add, "Duh, we appreciate your service!"

If that's the case, you should have appreciated the pandemic year Road Warriors offense once Mills got in the swing of things. Mills, Dalman, Fehoko, Jones, and Higgins. We had future NFL players playing at a high level and, for a three game stretch, beating conference foes on the road while outgunning them with an offense that was top 15-20-ish in America in that span.

Much about this was depressing too, I grant: I'm talking about a three game (219 plays!) span after which the three marquee players left early for the NFL to become mid-round draft picks and leave a combined seven years of eligibility on the table. It was a tease and was then over, without any bowl or the second half of a season to see what they could have done with some real runway.

But if we're in the business of rooting for Stanford football, we need to be able to appreciate the good. Mills, Dalman, Fehoko, Jones, Higgins, etc. gave us good offense for a three week stretch.

RE: Impressed w/ the Neophyte Coaches Shaw Just Hired? - BostonCard - 07-14-2022

(07-13-2022, 01:37 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: https://247sports.com/college/stanford/Article/Stanford-football-Dorian-Keller-Corey-Edsall-adds-two-coaches-to-support-staff--189949142/

In no program are low level hires going to make a material impact that fans can appreciate on the field. I mean I've yet to hear fans ever bitch about the assistant OL coach or offensive analyst when their team is getting pwned.

I don’t think that was MV’s point. Sarcasm aside, I think the complaint is that we are making changes to lower level staffers who won’t have a material effect on team performance, when we should be restructuring the staff from the top down, starting with the coordinators.

Other people have made more eloquent cases for why Shaw should ease out our current coordinators (especially our DC) and replace them with guys who are more capable.

BC

RE: Impressed w/ the Neophyte Coaches Shaw Just Hired? - OutsiderFan - 07-14-2022

There was a time when I cared who the coaches were. Now, I DGAF. Muir failed to hold Shaw accountable, and Shaw failed to hold his assistants accountable. As a result, the program is as irrelevant at this point as any time in my life.

I get it that some fans actually do want better assistants. However, mid-July is not when those changes are made unless something tragic happens. Now is when you bring in lower level staff. The time for bitching about coaching changes is September-February. Assistants are pretty well settled from March-September at minimum, and usually through November.

RE: Impressed w/ the Neophyte Coaches Shaw Just Hired? - BostonCard - 07-14-2022

For someone who ostensibly DGAF, you seem to have a lot of strong opinions on the matter.

BC

RE: Impressed w/ the Neophyte Coaches Shaw Just Hired? - gailtate - 07-14-2022

(07-14-2022, 10:17 AM)msqueri Wrote:
(07-14-2022, 08:27 AM)gailtate Wrote:
(07-13-2022, 01:37 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: https://247sports.com/college/stanford/Article/Stanford-football-Dorian-Keller-Corey-Edsall-adds-two-coaches-to-support-staff--189949142/

In no program are low level hires going to make a material impact that fans can appreciate on the field. I mean I've yet to hear fans ever bitch about the assistant OL coach or offensive analyst when their team is getting pwned.

I cannot recall a moment in recent years when I appreciated ANYTHING of impact that I saw on the field except for Bryce Love. Beyond him, nada. Nada thing. Muchas gracias, coach. And thanks for all you do, too, Bernie. As Chris Collinsworth would add, "Duh, we appreciate your service!"

If that's the case, you should have appreciated the pandemic year Road Warriors offense once Mills got in the swing of things. Mills, Dalman, Fehoko, Jones, and Higgins. We had future NFL players playing at a high level and, for a three game stretch, beating conference foes on the road while outgunning them with an offense that was top 15-20-ish in America in that span.

Much about this was depressing too, I grant: I'm talking about a three game (219 plays!) span after which the three marquee players left early for the NFL to become mid-round draft picks and leave a combined seven years of eligibility on the table. It was a tease and was then over, without any bowl or the second half of a season to see what they could have done with some real runway.

But if we're in the business of rooting for Stanford football, we need to be able to appreciate the good. Mills, Dalman, Fehoko, Jones, Higgins, etc. gave us good offense for a three week stretch.

I look back on that runt season as a kind of lab in the basement of the biology department building. You know, a musty, dusty collection of laboratory curiosities: two-headed calves, weird pig fetuses, and sundry mutations. As gallantly as the guys played during that star-crossed season, it will live on as an asterisk year. One that people will forever call the Covid season. Kinda the way a few Giants diehards dismiss the 1989 WS as "not counting". Just orders of magnitude worse. Speaking of that Series, I am in emphatic agreement with Hank Greenwald who said that if it weren't for the quake, the A's would have won in three games, not four.

RE: Impressed w/ the Neophyte Coaches Shaw Just Hired? - lex24 - 07-14-2022

(07-14-2022, 03:47 PM)gailtate Wrote:
(07-14-2022, 10:17 AM)msqueri Wrote:
(07-14-2022, 08:27 AM)gailtate Wrote:
(07-13-2022, 01:37 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: https://247sports.com/college/stanford/Article/Stanford-football-Dorian-Keller-Corey-Edsall-adds-two-coaches-to-support-staff--189949142/

In no program are low level hires going to make a material impact that fans can appreciate on the field. I mean I've yet to hear fans ever bitch about the assistant OL coach or offensive analyst when their team is getting pwned.

I cannot recall a moment in recent years when I appreciated ANYTHING of impact that I saw on the field except for Bryce Love. Beyond him, nada. Nada thing. Muchas gracias, coach. And thanks for all you do, too, Bernie. As Chris Collinsworth would add, "Duh, we appreciate your service!"

If that's the case, you should have appreciated the pandemic year Road Warriors offense once Mills got in the swing of things. Mills, Dalman, Fehoko, Jones, and Higgins. We had future NFL players playing at a high level and, for a three game stretch, beating conference foes on the road while outgunning them with an offense that was top 15-20-ish in America in that span.

Much about this was depressing too, I grant: I'm talking about a three game (219 plays!) span after which the three marquee players left early for the NFL to become mid-round draft picks and leave a combined seven years of eligibility on the table. It was a tease and was then over, without any bowl or the second half of a season to see what they could have done with some real runway.

But if we're in the business of rooting for Stanford football, we need to be able to appreciate the good. Mills, Dalman, Fehoko, Jones, Higgins, etc. gave us good offense for a three week stretch.

I look back on that runt season as a kind of lab in the basement of the biology department building. You know, a musty, dusty collection of laboratory curiosities: two-headed calves, weird pig fetuses, and sundry mutations. As gallantly as the guys played during that star-crossed season, it will live on as an asterisk year. One that people will forever call the Covid season. Kinda the way a few Giants diehards dismiss the 1989 WS as "not counting". Just orders of magnitude worse. Speaking of that Series, I am in emphatic agreement with Hank Greenwald who said that if it weren't for the quake, the A's would have won in three games, not four.

Of course the A’s would have beat the giants in ‘89. Better team. Better chemistry department……

RE: Impressed w/ the Neophyte Coaches Shaw Just Hired? - cardcrimson - 07-14-2022

(07-14-2022, 04:13 PM)lex24 Wrote: Of course the A’s would have beat the giants in ‘89. Better team. Better chemistry department……

Funny guy. Would have been a little more subtle with "Better team chemistry" . . . .

Stewart and Moore each won two, and the Bash Brothers only had one HR of the A's nine in the four games.

RE: Impressed w/ the Neophyte Coaches Shaw Just Hired? - winflop - 07-14-2022

(07-14-2022, 01:39 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: the program is as irrelevant at this point as any time in my life.

Were you alive in 2002-2006 for IdiotFace & HeWhoMustNotBeNamed? I can assure you things were MUCH bleaker in that era than they are now

RE: Impressed w/ the Neophyte Coaches Shaw Just Hired? - cardcrimson - 07-14-2022

(07-14-2022, 05:02 PM)winflop Wrote: Were you alive in 2002-2006 for IdiotFace & HeWhoMustNotBeNamed? I can assure you things were MUCH bleaker in that era than they are now

Pondering the question, are IdiotFace & HeWhoMustNotBeNamed autocorrect for Harris and Teevens, or just your commentary?

RE: Impressed w/ the Neophyte Coaches Shaw Just Hired? - winflop - 07-14-2022

(07-14-2022, 05:36 PM)cardcrimson Wrote:
(07-14-2022, 05:02 PM)winflop Wrote: Were you alive in 2002-2006 for IdiotFace & HeWhoMustNotBeNamed? I can assure you things were MUCH bleaker in that era than they are now

Pondering the question, are IdiotFace & HeWhoMustNotBeNamed autocorrect for Harris and Teevens, or just your commentary?

Not autocorrect. I can't take credit for IdiotFace, but I came up with HeWhoMustNotBeNamed for Buddy all by myself and I'm very proud of it :P

RE: Impressed w/ the Neophyte Coaches Shaw Just Hired? - Langdude - 07-14-2022

(07-14-2022, 02:15 PM)BostonCard Wrote: For someone who ostensibly DGAF, you seem to have a lot of strong opinions on the matter.

BC

I was about to say the same thing.

-m.

RE: Impressed w/ the Neophyte Coaches Shaw Just Hired? - AlbanyCardinal - 07-15-2022

I had season tickets through that stretch, and I'm not so sure. I'd agree that it was worse in many respects but not all. I felt hope then, at least, that changes would be made soon, b/c the product on the field was worsening so. I don't feel that hope at all in the present. Stanford seems stuck with Shaw and his personnel for a long time. I get that he's Stanford's winningest football coach and put together a nice run. But if your program is tanking as his has been, you need to fire and hire to stay in the game. There's a stagnancy today that rivals some of the worst aspects of that lean stretch you mentioned, imo.

(07-14-2022, 05:02 PM)winflop Wrote:
(07-14-2022, 01:39 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: the program is as irrelevant at this point as any time in my life.

Were you alive in 2002-2006 for IdiotFace & HeWhoMustNotBeNamed? I can assure you things were MUCH bleaker in that era than they are now

RE: Impressed w/ the Neophyte Coaches Shaw Just Hired? - OutsiderFan - 07-15-2022

(07-14-2022, 05:02 PM)winflop Wrote:
(07-14-2022, 01:39 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: the program is as irrelevant at this point as any time in my life.

Were you alive in 2002-2006 for IdiotFace & HeWhoMustNotBeNamed? I can assure you things were MUCH bleaker in that era than they are now

I factored that period in to my timeline. Stanford was not in the weakest power conference in the country from 2002-2006. Stanford had a competent AD in Bowlsby. There was no NIL, transfer portal, or early entries that made it more difficult to compete. Stanford could be one good hire away from turning its program around.

It's simply a different strategic landscape now, and all the changes in college football have hurt and are hurting Stanford. So I stand on my statement.

RE: Impressed w/ the Neophyte Coaches Shaw Just Hired? - OutsiderFan - 07-15-2022

(07-14-2022, 02:15 PM)BostonCard Wrote: For someone who ostensibly DGAF, you seem to have a lot of strong opinions on the matter.

BC

Where do you see strong opinions "on the matter" and to which specific "matter" are you referring?

RE: Impressed w/ the Neophyte Coaches Shaw Just Hired? - msqueri - 07-15-2022

I view the two as comparable. The level Stanford continues to recruit at makes a strong case we're more "relevant" than we were in the prior dark ages. The results on the field are very comparable. Ultimately, I think parsing it too finely misses the point: to the vast majority of the nation we're now, like in that prior period, in the mediocre morass of largely irrelevant bottom tier Power Five teams. We're Indiana. We're Cal. We're Boston College. We're Maryland. People who aren't fans of these teams don't think about these teams and the teams aren't considered viable contenders for the major prizes in college football. That's where we were in 2002-2006 and where we are now.

That being said, if one wants to refer to objective (or at least external) metrics comparing across eras, there's always Sagarin, which allows us to adjust for OutsiderFan's excellent point about how much stronger the Pac-10 was in the prior period compared to the Pac-12 now. Here's what the computers think:

2002: #74
2003: #69
2004: #46
2005: #42
2006: #104

2017: #14
2018: #24
2019: #73
2020: #38 (algorithm was wild that year and at another time post-season I saw us at #75....bottom line is with the small sample and lack of non-conference games this became an unreliable data point)
2021: #89

A few ways to slice this:

* As five year eras, the current era (47.6 average, 38 median) is certainly better than the prior dark ages (67 average, #69 median).

* As a three year era, the current era (66.67 average, #73 median) is arguably worse than the aforementioned combined Teevens-Harris reign as well as the Teevens era (63 average, #69 median).

If the last three years are indicative of the current state of the program, nobody should view what we have now as better than what we had under Teevens and Harris. Very similar results.

In any case, again, all this parsing obscures the reality on a question like "relevance," which is that there's a whole morass of Power Five teams that are out of sight and out of mind for the college football world. Whether we're #42 or #89, we're irrelevant. Teevens' best team was akin to last year's Oregon State team. Big whoop.