Anybody see any ponies in that pile of manure?

Anybody see any ponies in that pile of manure? - Printable Version

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RE: Anybody see any ponies in that pile of manure? - martyup - 09-05-2021

(09-05-2021, 12:13 PM)Phogge Wrote: If I were betting I would bet that West starts again.

Not a chance.

RE: Anybody see any ponies in that pile of manure? - BostonCard - 09-05-2021

I wouldn’t underrate the chance that West starts again. Shaw has a different perspective than we do.

BC

RE: Anybody see any ponies in that pile of manure? - martyup - 09-05-2021

(09-05-2021, 12:23 PM)BostonCard Wrote: I wouldn’t underrate the chance that West starts again. Shaw has a different perspective than we do.

BC

I'm no Shaw hater, but if West starts against SC . . .

(09-05-2021, 12:23 PM)BostonCard Wrote: I wouldn’t underrate the chance that West starts again. Shaw has a different perspective than we do.

BC

That statement is a major indictment of Shaw's judgment. Was that the intention? I'm not judging here, just curious.

RE: Anybody see any ponies in that pile of manure? - gailtate - 09-05-2021

(09-05-2021, 12:13 PM)Phogge Wrote: If I were betting I would bet that West starts again.

I'm sure he's a wonderful young man. The kinda guy you want your daughter to bring home. I just don't want to see him playing anymore football for Stanford. The guy just doesn't have it. Hey, when is the last time a starting QB at Stanford did not throw a single TD pass in his first three games???!!!

RE: Anybody see any ponies in that pile of manure? - terry - 09-05-2021

I wouldn't be all that surprised if West were to start against USC, with McKee then taking over and getting more playing time.

When Shaw made the move to Hogan in 2012, Nunes started the Colorado game and played two series before Hogan took over for the rest of the game and the rest of the season.

RE: Anybody see any ponies in that pile of manure? - Austroturf - 09-05-2021

(09-05-2021, 12:13 PM)Phogge Wrote: If I were betting I would bet that West starts again.

And that would be such a travesty. Let the raw kid play now and earn his stripes. He is currently the only future we have at QB (if he doesn't get injured).

Has there ever been an example of a team platooning QBs that was successful? When Stanford did it with Burns and Chryst, we were 4-3 before Shaw finally handed the reins to Chryst, who then went on to win five straight (with a sixth technically coming in the Sun Bowl when he got injured).

RE: Anybody see any ponies in that pile of manure? - MV72018 - 09-05-2021

(09-05-2021, 12:13 PM)Phogge Wrote: If I were betting I would bet that West starts again.

I agree 100% with the Phogge-meister, because to start McKee would be tantamount to acknowledging that Shaw made the wrong choice in Week 1, starting West. And Shaw, like Trump, WILL NOT ADMIT THAT HE WAS WRONG. He's that stubborn.

RE: Anybody see any ponies in that pile of manure? - Goose - 09-05-2021

(09-05-2021, 11:21 AM)murky Wrote: As disheartening as it was to experience the O-line fail to perform yesterday, it's encouraging that our biggest area of needed improvement is one that, on paper, has the tools to get the job done.

Yes, and that is why it is such a paradox that they played so badly. You would think there was enough residual ability there to avoid what actually happened, 0900 or not. Anybody have insights into the issue? I kind of wonder if they just got beat by better quickness. It didn't seem they were overpowered, rather that they just couldn't get in front of the pass rush.

RE: Anybody see any ponies in that pile of manure? - MV72018 - 09-05-2021

(09-05-2021, 12:23 PM)BostonCard Wrote: I wouldn’t underrate the chance that West starts again. Shaw has a different perspective than we do.

BC

Yes, he does: a narcissistic, egocentric, pontifical perspective of infallibility, at least when speaking post facto as coach, game strategist, play caller, game preparer, motivator, and QB developer.

RE: Anybody see any ponies in that pile of manure? - JohnR34231 - 09-05-2021

(09-05-2021, 01:11 PM)Austroturf Wrote:
(09-05-2021, 12:13 PM)Phogge Wrote: If I were betting I would bet that West starts again.

And that would be such a travesty. Let the raw kid play now and earn his stripes. He is currently the only future we have at QB (if he doesn't get injured).

Has there ever been an example of a team platooning QBs that was successful? When Stanford did it with Burns and Chryst, we were 4-3 before Shaw finally handed the reins to Chryst, who then went on to win five straight (with a sixth technically coming in the Sun Bowl when he got injured).

Actually there is. Washington won the NC in 1991 platooning QB's.

RE: Anybody see any ponies in that pile of manure? - terry - 09-05-2021

(09-05-2021, 01:18 PM)MV72018 Wrote:
(09-05-2021, 12:13 PM)Phogge Wrote: If I were betting I would bet that West starts again.

I agree 100% with the Phogge-meister, because to start McKee would be tantamount to acknowledging that Shaw made the wrong choice in Week 1, starting West. And Shaw, like Trump, WILL NOT ADMIT THAT HE WAS WRONG. He's that stubborn.

If there's one thing that we know to a certainty about Shaw, it's that he is willing to change his starting QB during the season. He has done it three times. He clearly is not too stubborn to make a QB change.

RE: Anybody see any ponies in that pile of manure? - Austroturf - 09-05-2021

(09-05-2021, 01:53 PM)terry Wrote:
(09-05-2021, 01:18 PM)MV72018 Wrote:
(09-05-2021, 12:13 PM)Phogge Wrote: If I were betting I would bet that West starts again.

I agree 100% with the Phogge-meister, because to start McKee would be tantamount to acknowledging that Shaw made the wrong choice in Week 1, starting West. And Shaw, like Trump, WILL NOT ADMIT THAT HE WAS WRONG. He's that stubborn.

If there's one thing that we know to a certainty about Shaw, it's that he is willing to change his starting QB during the season. He has done it three times. He clearly is not too stubborn to make a QB change.

Correct. But he sometimes does it too late. In 2012, we had losses to UW and Notre Dame before Hogan took the reins in game 9 against Colorado and won every game the rest of the season. In 2016, as I have noted, we had three losses before Shaw made the switch to Chryst for game 8, which resulted in six straight victories. In 2017, Costello stepped in for the injured Chryst for two games (UCLA, ASU, both victories), then was relegated to back-up for three games (Utah, Oregon, Oregon State), then finally got the starting nod against WSU in game 9 of the season. I remain convinced that giving Costello the starting role after his success against UCLA and ASU would have resulted in a better record. But we will never know. So Shaw makes changes, but only when he is up against the wall.

(09-05-2021, 01:33 PM)JohnR34231 Wrote:
(09-05-2021, 01:11 PM)Austroturf Wrote:
(09-05-2021, 12:13 PM)Phogge Wrote: If I were betting I would bet that West starts again.

And that would be such a travesty. Let the raw kid play now and earn his stripes. He is currently the only future we have at QB (if he doesn't get injured).

Has there ever been an example of a team platooning QBs that was successful? When Stanford did it with Burns and Chryst, we were 4-3 before Shaw finally handed the reins to Chryst, who then went on to win five straight (with a sixth technically coming in the Sun Bowl when he got injured).

Actually there is. Washington won the NC in 1991 platooning QB's.

Thanks for the info. This one example show that success with platooning QBs is indeed rare.

RE: Anybody see any ponies in that pile of manure? - BostonCard - 09-05-2021

That is correct. That’s why I’m not ready to dismiss West as the starter for several more games, but why I expect McKee to be the starter by the end of the season. To paraphrase a saying widely attributed to Churchill* “[Shaw] will always do the right thing - after exhausting all the alternatives."

BC

* apparently this is an example of “Churchillian drift”, a phenomenon where witty quotes are attributed to Churchill, even when there’s no record that he is the originator. https://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2013/10/28/241295755/a-churchill-quote-that-u-s-politicians-will-never-surrender

RE: Anybody see any ponies in that pile of manure? - Snorlax94 - 09-05-2021

(09-05-2021, 02:32 PM)Austroturf Wrote:
(09-05-2021, 01:53 PM)terry Wrote:
(09-05-2021, 01:18 PM)MV72018 Wrote:
(09-05-2021, 12:13 PM)Phogge Wrote: If I were betting I would bet that West starts again.

I agree 100% with the Phogge-meister, because to start McKee would be tantamount to acknowledging that Shaw made the wrong choice in Week 1, starting West. And Shaw, like Trump, WILL NOT ADMIT THAT HE WAS WRONG. He's that stubborn.

If there's one thing that we know to a certainty about Shaw, it's that he is willing to change his starting QB during the season. He has done it three times. He clearly is not too stubborn to make a QB change.

Correct. But he sometimes does it too late. In 2012, we had losses to UW and Notre Dame before Hogan took the reins in game 9 against Colorado and won every game the rest of the season. In 2016, as I have noted, we had three losses before Shaw made the switch to Chryst for game 8, which resulted in six straight victories. In 2017, Costello stepped in for the injured Chryst for two games (UCLA, ASU, both victories), then was relegated to back-up for three games (Utah, Oregon, Oregon State), then finally got the starting nod against WSU in game 9 of the season. I remain convinced that giving Costello the starting role after his success against UCLA and ASU would have resulted in a better record. But we will never know. So Shaw makes changes, but only when he is up against the wall.

I think McKee starts against USC. The point of the experienced game manager is that they’re not supposed to turn the ball over, and West threw that bad pick.

RE: Anybody see any ponies in that pile of manure? - martyup - 09-05-2021

Both of West's picks were bad throws.

RE: Anybody see any ponies in that pile of manure? - DC 86 - 09-05-2021

(09-05-2021, 02:32 PM)Austroturf Wrote:
(09-05-2021, 01:53 PM)terry Wrote:
(09-05-2021, 01:18 PM)MV72018 Wrote: Has there ever been an example of a team platooning QBs that was successful? When Stanford did it with Burns and Chryst, we were 4-3 before Shaw finally handed the reins to Chryst, who then went on to win five straight (with a sixth technically coming in the Sun Bowl when he got injured).

Actually there is. Washington won the NC in 1991 platooning QB's.

Thanks for the info. This one example show that success with platooning QBs is indeed rare.

It's become a trope that "if you have two quarterbacks you have none" and that platooning quarterbacks doesn't work. It doesn't work because it's rare to have two high quality quarterbacks of complementary ability, not because playing two quarterbacks is inherently a flawed strategy. In addition to Brunell/Hobert mentioned above, Florida also won a national championship using two quarterbacks (Chris Leak and Tim Tebow) who not coincidentally were both extremely good players at the college level and brought different skills to the job. FSU put up 38 points against Notre Dame last night while strategically employing both Travis and Milton, and there are a number of other examples of teams using two QBs successfully.

Taking this to its logical extreme, if Stanford was platooning Luck and Elway I bet the system would work; the problem isn't playing two men per se, it's that neither West or McKee has proven to be a capable starter, so both are playing out of desperation and the hope that one of them will demonstrate that they are competent. I expect that McKee will be the full time QB at some point soon, not because playing two quarterbacks is necessarily bad but because he will prove to be our clear best option.

RE: Anybody see any ponies in that pile of manure? - Mick - 09-06-2021

(09-05-2021, 01:33 PM)JohnR34231 Wrote:
(09-05-2021, 01:11 PM)Austroturf Wrote:
(09-05-2021, 12:13 PM)Phogge Wrote: If I were betting I would bet that West starts again.

And that would be such a travesty. Let the raw kid play now and earn his stripes. He is currently the only future we have at QB (if he doesn't get injured).

Has there ever been an example of a team platooning QBs that was successful? When Stanford did it with Burns and Chryst, we were 4-3 before Shaw finally handed the reins to Chryst, who then went on to win five straight (with a sixth technically coming in the Sun Bowl when he got injured).

Actually there is. Washington won the NC in 1991 platooning QB's.

1970 Cornhuskers won a national championship with Jerry Tagge and Van Brownson. Tommie Frazier and Brook Berringer in 1994, Nebraska NCAA champion. 2006 national champs Florida Gators with Chris Leak and Tim Tebow. 1989, Young and Montana?

RE: Anybody see any ponies in that pile of manure? - winflop - 09-06-2021

(09-05-2021, 01:08 PM)terry Wrote: I wouldn't be all that surprised if West were to start against USC, with McKee then taking over and getting more playing time.

When Shaw made the move to Hogan in 2012, Nunes started the Colorado game and played two series before Hogan took over for the rest of the game and the rest of the season.

I think the difference is that Nunes hadn't previously started two other games (had he?). West has now started three times, played horribly in two of them and mediocre-at-best in the other one.

McKee should be named the starter for the remainder of the season, with Sanders as his backup. West has demonstrated that he isn't D1 P5 starter quality.

RE: Anybody see any ponies in that pile of manure? - Phogge - 09-06-2021

All I said was that West would start Saturday.

The reality today is having a QB who can run at times and an offense that runs tempo while Stanford is burdened by the decade long problem of picking out a play from a PHD syllabus and is limited by lack of speed everywhere.

I'm not saying that Patu is the guy but at least the two recent QB recruits seem to foreshadow a shift in the future. Of course it also probably means that Shaw couldn't get a 6'4" 225 pound stay in the pocket statue for two cycles.

RE: Anybody see any ponies in that pile of manure? - cctop - 09-06-2021

(09-05-2021, 09:21 AM)jonnyss Wrote: john humphreys made some nice catches. brycen tremaine, too.

I have not and will not re-watch the Kansas St. game...

Which one pulled in that really nice one-handed catch?