Stanford Football Head Coach--What Would You Do? - Printable Version
+- The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board)
+-- Forum: C-House! (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: Stanford Football Head Coach--What Would You Do? (/thread-22673.html)
+- The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board)
+-- Forum: C-House! (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: Stanford Football Head Coach--What Would You Do? (/thread-22673.html)
RE: Stanford Football Head Coach--What Would You Do? - PalmTree - 11-29-2021
(11-29-2021, 04:52 PM)Row80Critic Wrote: Here's my biggest fear: Shaw sticks around next year after appointing Keller Chryst or someone similar as the new Coordinating Coach of Winningest Winning (because it's easier to add and not fire people), and then eeks out a 6-6 season and maybe an overtime win against Foothill College in the Pablum Bowl. Same Denny's menu; same three plays and the wildcat; same constipated-turtle mentality; same lack of intensity; same staggering predictability; same inability to distinguish the McKees and Wests of the world; same lofty off-field talk; same finger-pointing at 'execution' and 'opportunities' at press conferences; same bowling pin defense. Then what?
Then what? Attendance and ticket/media revenues will continue to decline, DAPER's varsity athletics operating deficit (-$3M in 2019, -$2.9M in 2020. $??M in 2021 or 2022 - this stuff is all in the university's annual budget book, BTW) will also continue to tailspin and then MTL/PD/the BoT and more importantly, faculty, will lose their appetite for subsidizing the worsening operating deficits with university funds and decide to fund buyouts for the AD and the Bradford M. Freeman Director of Football instead.
That said, I also get the sickening feeling this will all play out in/after the 2023 season, no matter what happens next season and that's a d**n shame.....
RE: Stanford Football Head Coach--What Would You Do? - Spiny_Norman - 11-29-2021
Step 1 - new AD.
Step 2 - ?????
Step 3 - profit!!
There is a viable replacement for Bernard already on campus, someone who understands Stanford and college football and who has been in multiple administrative leadership roles - Condoleeza Rice. It would be a bold move to make her the AD.
RE: Stanford Football Head Coach--What Would You Do? - Goose - 11-29-2021
(11-29-2021, 12:36 PM)teejers1 Wrote:Signed and sealed probably not. A handshake agreement, absolutely. You see, I intend to run a competent Athletic Department. I am not going to put myself in the position of having fired my coach and now have to negotiate with a guy I want that KNOWS I have to hire somebody. Doing a coaching search "under the radar" is tricky, but U$C sure managed it with Lincoln Riley. What did they gain by firing Helton after the Stanford game? The only possible benefit was any recruit that would come to U$C having no idea at all who the coach would be and wouldn't with Helton still there. I would risk it. The U$C AD fired him because the public pressure was allowed to get out of control. They should have quietly moved at the end of the previous year.(11-29-2021, 12:14 PM)Goose Wrote: I would keep Shaw but continually evaluate his job performance. I would also examine my options. When I have what I think is a better alternative I would replace Shaw. This should always be the model, whether the coach has a "good" year or a "bad" year. When the coach has bad years, the threshold of "better alternative" naturally is lower.
I really don't place any stock in who he hires or who he fires per se. It is the result that counts. Re-arranging the deck chairs or even buying new deck chairs doesn't patch the hole in the hull. I also will evaluate his analysis of the problems and his proposed solutions/work-arounds. If I have questions he needs to have at least reasonable answers. I don't expect this discussion will be shared with the public/news media.
Unfortunately, I therefore can't say to Shaw "Get to .500 next year or else your gone". Or else for Stanford may be a journey into the wilderness. I won't start that journey unless I think I see a way through.
So because you don't have the next guy signed and sealed - who you believe is better than Shaw - then it's okay to continue on with the utter garbage we saw this season?
Okay . . . got it.
There are situations where the AD has to fire a coach because of misconduct. No help for that. But really there is no other reason to do so until you have a replacement. This is especially true for a place like Stanford where the pool of acceptable candidates isn't real large. I don't want to be forced to hire somebody that I don't think is an upgrade simply because I had to hire somebody, anybody, to fill the void.
RE: Stanford Football Head Coach--What Would You Do? - MV72018 - 11-29-2021
(11-29-2021, 12:14 PM)Goose Wrote: I would keep Shaw but continually evaluate his job performance. I would also examine my options. When I have what I think is a better alternative I would replace Shaw. This should always be the model, whether the coach has a "good" year or a "bad" year. When the coach has bad years, the threshold of "better alternative" naturally is lower.
I really don't place any stock in who he hires or who he fires per se. It is the result that counts. Re-arranging the deck chairs or even buying new deck chairs doesn't patch the hole in the hull. I also will evaluate his analysis of the problems and his proposed solutions/work-arounds. If I have questions he needs to have at least reasonable answers. I don't expect this discussion will be shared with the public/news media.
Unfortunately, I therefore can't say to Shaw "Get to .500 next year or else your gone". Or else for Stanford may be a journey into the wilderness. I won't start that journey unless I think I see a way through.
Neither Muir nor anyone else at Stanford has the knowledge and guts to do a candid, in-depth, comprehensive evaluation of Shaw's performance and the administration doesn't have the guts to terminate him if a serious evaluation is done and turns out negative. David Shaw effectively has tenure as head football coach at Stanford.
RE: Stanford Football Head Coach--What Would You Do? - PAsportsfan - 11-29-2021
Looks to me two people can save stanford football: David Shaw, (not likely) or ex pres John Hennessy.
JH being a sports fan, sure see's what's happening to the team and the rest of the Ath. Dept. He could get MTL's ear and tell the positives of a strong program.
RE: Stanford Football Head Coach--What Would You Do? - CowboyIndian - 11-29-2021
(11-29-2021, 12:36 PM)teejers1 Wrote: So because you don't have the next guy signed and sealed - who you believe is better than Shaw - then it's okay to continue on with the utter garbage we saw this season?
Okay . . . got it.
Jesus! Put a sock in it for a minute, would you? We get your point!
RE: Stanford Football Head Coach--What Would You Do? - teejers1 - 11-29-2021
(11-29-2021, 07:41 PM)CowboyIndian Wrote:(11-29-2021, 12:36 PM)teejers1 Wrote: So because you don't have the next guy signed and sealed - who you believe is better than Shaw - then it's okay to continue on with the utter garbage we saw this season?
Okay . . . got it.
Jesus! Put a sock in it for a minute, would you? We get your point!
Okay, Cowboy, but only because my primary concern is to refrain from offending your sensibilities (or any of other of the longtime Shawpologists in these parts).
RE: Stanford Football Head Coach--What Would You Do? - jacket3ree - 11-29-2021
(11-29-2021, 01:21 PM)BobK Wrote: Speaking for my self. I don’t want
Curtice
Dowhauer
Wiggin
Elway
Teevens
Harris
I also rather not have a three and done
Two of those listed gentlemen are dead, and a couple are pushing 90, so that makes sense.
Three and done is probably the new model. Better than 'how can we miss you if you won't go away?' If Riley can leave Oklahoma and Kelly Notre Dame after extremely successful tenures, anyone can leave.
RE: Stanford Football Head Coach--What Would You Do? - BobK - 11-29-2021
Just mentioning failures at Stanford.
Beware of what you wish for. It doesn’t always work out
RE: Stanford Football Head Coach--What Would You Do? - McKenwood - 11-29-2021
(11-29-2021, 07:41 PM)CowboyIndian Wrote:(11-29-2021, 12:36 PM)teejers1 Wrote: So because you don't have the next guy signed and sealed - who you believe is better than Shaw - then it's okay to continue on with the utter garbage we saw this season?
Okay . . . got it.
Jesus! Put a sock in it for a minute, would you? We get your point!
So what is your point? Pithy comments don't cut it given the situation here.
Shaw needs to resign (see Chris Peterson) or do a full-scale house cleaning (see Jim Harbaugh). Nothing else matters.
RE: Stanford Football Head Coach--What Would You Do? - Maple Leaf - 11-29-2021
(11-29-2021, 09:48 PM)McKenwood Wrote:(11-29-2021, 07:41 PM)CowboyIndian Wrote:(11-29-2021, 12:36 PM)teejers1 Wrote: So because you don't have the next guy signed and sealed - who you believe is better than Shaw - then it's okay to continue on with the utter garbage we saw this season?
Okay . . . got it.
Jesus! Put a sock in it for a minute, would you? We get your point!
So what is your point? Pithy comments don't cut it given the situation here.
Shaw needs to resign (see Chris Peterson) or do a full-scale house cleaning (see Jim Harbaugh). Nothing else matters.
well maybe $100 or $120 million matters if you ask some folks looking for a head football coach.
RE: Stanford Football Head Coach--What Would You Do? - McKenwood - 11-29-2021
(11-29-2021, 09:54 PM)Maple Leaf Wrote:(11-29-2021, 09:48 PM)McKenwood Wrote:(11-29-2021, 07:41 PM)CowboyIndian Wrote:(11-29-2021, 12:36 PM)teejers1 Wrote: So because you don't have the next guy signed and sealed - who you believe is better than Shaw - then it's okay to continue on with the utter garbage we saw this season?
Okay . . . got it.
Jesus! Put a sock in it for a minute, would you? We get your point!
So what is your point? Pithy comments don't cut it given the situation here.
Shaw needs to resign (see Chris Peterson) or do a full-scale house cleaning (see Jim Harbaugh). Nothing else matters.
well maybe $100 or $120 million matters if you ask some folks looking for a head football coach.
Given the destruction in program value Shaw has presided over during the past three years Stanford would be well served to pay the buyout in Shaw's contract which is likely a ginormous number.
RE: Stanford Football Head Coach--What Would You Do? - newguy - 11-30-2021
how many years does Shaw have left in his contract, and how much is his buyout?
RE: Stanford Football Head Coach--What Would You Do? - winflop - 11-30-2021
(11-29-2021, 09:10 PM)BobK Wrote: Just mentioning failures at Stanford.
Beware of what you wish for. It doesn’t always work out
If the current guy either can't see the problems AND implement solutions or (just as bad) can see them and WON'T implement, then I'd rather someone else at least tries even if the results are worse. Maintaining status quo after the last four seasons is not OK
RE: Stanford Football Head Coach--What Would You Do? - BostonCard - 11-30-2021
(11-30-2021, 07:06 AM)winflop Wrote:(11-29-2021, 09:10 PM)BobK Wrote: Just mentioning failures at Stanford.
Beware of what you wish for. It doesn’t always work out
If the current guy either can't see the problems AND implement solutions or (just as bad) can see them and WON'T implement, then I'd rather someone else at least tries even if the results are worse. Maintaining status quo after the last four seasons is not OK
I know times are tough, but we were 9-4 in 2018. We were also 4-2 in 2020, despite having to play on the road endlessly (and one wonders where we would have been had Mills not been a weird COVID testing situation). We were dreadful in 2019 and again this year, so maybe it feels like it has been forever since we had a winning season.
BC
RE: Stanford Football Head Coach--What Would You Do? - BobK - 11-30-2021
Four seasons ago Stanford was 9-4. Thinking a new coach doesn’t mean better than 9-4. I submit Haase
RE: Stanford Football Head Coach--What Would You Do? - Giants - 11-30-2021
(11-29-2021, 11:19 AM)BobK Wrote: My vote is not require but Shaw will make some coaching changes.
We fully agree, Bob. That is why I passed on voting….
RE: Stanford Football Head Coach--What Would You Do? - gailtate - 11-30-2021
(11-29-2021, 05:13 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: As someone with a little experience with board oversight and a CEO, I believe it is always preferable to give the CEO the opportunity to present a plan and hold the CEO accountable for executing it. Don't tell the CEO what to do, just make clear the expectations, or as Bill Walsh said, make the standard of performance clear and unambiguous.
You could tell Shaw he must reach a certain level of performance next year or he is gone, but he has already shown a startling lack of self-awareness and poor judgment that has led him to the point Stanford Football finds itself in now. The AD has to show concern about the program and do whatever can be done to limit the damage, when the guy in charge at the moment can do more damage without intervention.
This thread has been enlightening because it has mentioned the President of the university as having "blood on his hands" for the Football decline. This, to me, highlights the biggest problem Stanford has. Putting the pieces together it appears:
1. The President doesn't care, doesn't know how, and/or has not done anything to set Standards for the Athletic Department to meet
2. The AD has set no standards for any individual Stanford sports programs
3. The Head Coaches have no standards of performance
4. The Assistant Coaches have no standards of performance
5. The players have no standards of performance
6. Nobody is accountable for performance in any measurable way across the board
Sure, some programs may be led by coaches who are always hungry and reinventing themselves, with their own standards to be the best, and hold assistants accountable, while also helping them advance their careers. But it is also human nature to be complacent when there is no pressure to perform.
I can't tell you how many posts I have seen from Cal fans requesting this coach or that coach be fired, as some sort of panacea for all Cal Football fan frustrations. My reaction is always to look way higher in the organization for real reasons the team is performing poorly. Cal's brass simply doesn't care about winning in sports at the highest levels. This is why Cal has been so terrible for so long in so many sports with rare exceptions.
But Stanford has never had this dynamic. Stanford has always cared about winning in sports. The only way that happens is if it comes form the top. Either the President themself demand it, the school's benefactors do, or both. You don't win Directors Cups without giving a sh*t at the top. You don't get Rose Bowls or Final Fours, make College World Series, etc. when you are indifferent.
Right now, Stanford seems to be rudderless when it comes to sports leadership, and no program is epitomizing that more than the Football program.
Full marks, O.F. This coach has felt absolutely no pressure to perform since he stood under the falling confetti on the ESPN podium in Pasadena. Feels like a generation ago.
RE: Stanford Football Head Coach--What Would You Do? - lex24 - 11-30-2021
First, no matter how many here ball their hands into fist and scream till they are blue in the face Shaw is going nowhere. And if he was, who do you think they could hire? You think folks are going to flock to an opening for a program that means little or nothing to the University? In any area that doesn’t give a sh-t about college football? Anyone they’d get would be an untried assistant who thinks he can use Stanford as a stepping stone. Or someone with previous ties that failed elsewhere - like Derrick Mason. Or, hey, I got it Mike Bloomgren. He won 4 at Rice year - which is a good job. You’d LOVE that.
As for his assistants, yeah it’s time for changes. But I will remind you that at one time Lance A and Akina were the cat’s meow to folks here. Concern being Lance was going to take a HC job. Akina being lauded as one of the best defensive backs coach in the country. Lance hasn’t forgotten how to coach, nor has Akina. But talent matters. So,it’s time to mix things up.
Offensively, Tavita always been your whipping boy. Well at least since Blomgren left. And Pep before him. There are any number of folks on the board that know it all and I’m sure could do better. So, I hope some of you are applying.
In any event, yeah it’s time to shake up the staff.
More importantly, it’s time to go back to the roots. Recruit for intellectual brutality and start playing that boring brand of run oriented complimentary power football that simply brought wins. Look to SF or Wisconsin for your o-coordinator. Both excellent schemes predicated on the run - with a bit of imagination thrown in.
RE: Stanford Football Head Coach--What Would You Do? - CardinalSagehen - 11-30-2021
(11-30-2021, 08:15 AM)BostonCard Wrote:(11-30-2021, 07:06 AM)winflop Wrote:(11-29-2021, 09:10 PM)BobK Wrote: Just mentioning failures at Stanford.
Beware of what you wish for. It doesn’t always work out
If the current guy either can't see the problems AND implement solutions or (just as bad) can see them and WON'T implement, then I'd rather someone else at least tries even if the results are worse. Maintaining status quo after the last four seasons is not OK
I know times are tough, but we were 9-4 in 2018. We were also 4-2 in 2020, despite having to play on the road endlessly (and one wonders where we would have been had Mills not been a weird COVID testing situation). We were dreadful in 2019 and again this year, so maybe it feels like it has been forever since we had a winning season.
BC
I am with you on this, mostly. But consider also that nobody here expects us to have a winning record next season, due mostly to lack of proven ability and depth on the defensive line / front 7. That seems to be unfixable by next year, barring major surprises from some young and inexperienced players.
So by this time next year, we are probably talking about 3 out of 4 seasons where performance is well below par.
That’s why this poll was difficult for me. I want to give Shaw time to fix it himself (hire new assistants, make changes, etc.), but giving him one year seems pointless and giving him two years seems too long.