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RE: WBB: Stanford vs. Oregon Sunday 5pm (spring ahead) - WBB fan - 03-08-2020

(03-08-2020, 06:48 PM)treetop11 Wrote:  
(03-08-2020, 08:20 AM)81alum Wrote:  
(03-08-2020, 08:03 AM)WBB fan Wrote:  It was really interesting sitting in front of Oregon fans last night and hearing their reaction to the officiating. They were yelling about fouls they thought should have been called on Arizona and were not, felt that fouls on Oregon were unfair, and so on. From their POV, it was all unfair for Oregon. All a matter of perspective??? I'm not enough of an expert to judge objectively, but I suspect that few fans really are. We're focused on our own team.
Here is my theory.  The fans are usually right.  Officiating is so inexact that there are always plenty of really bad calls on both sides.  And it is the job of fans to point out all the bad calls on their team and ignore all the bad calls on the other team.
In MBB game vs ducks, DaSilva makes what appears to be a three and a three is called on the floor. Refs decide though that they want to take a look. They review and from angle straight on, it looks like Oscar's toes are on the line, they reverse the call and call it a two. Moments later, tv shows another, better angle from the side that absolutely shows Oscar's foot behind the line and he should have gotten credited for a three.
With the benefit of review and a replay available that was clear, how do the refs make that call? is it incompetence or bias/corruption? I have no idea, but I do think officiating is crap. The only thing that fixes it is change the rules or drastically reduce them so refs are irrelevant.
(03-08-2020, 06:44 PM)TheFarm07 Wrote:  
(03-08-2020, 06:27 PM)winflop Wrote:  They're just better. Third time this season we just can't hang. Would have loved to see them face each other with both teams 100% healthy

I hope they hang these results in the locker room and use it as motivation to improve, so that these scorelines will be flipped one day soon.
Isn't in Stanford's DNA but I would hope that the team is angry enough that they make it a goal to beat Oregon all next year - and bury them by 30+ each time, rub it in like their coach did to us. Overall, I'm fed up with Oregon, their fans, Phil Knight money, transfers - anything to win in football, MBB, and WBB. I wish Stanford would make it a point to knock Oregon of its perch and an also ran.
(03-08-2020, 06:45 PM)WBB fan Wrote:  
(03-08-2020, 06:43 PM)76lsjumb Wrote:  What was that about Ducks turtling?

Doesn’t look like it to me. Looks more like Geno is coaching them this evening...
Was thinking same thing. Starters still in while up 36
Ridiculous. I wouldn't have been upset if one or more of their starters got injured then to mess up their NCAA tourney chances for that running up the score effort.

I understand the feeling of frustration and all that, but I would never wish to see a player hurt from any team, no matter how idiotic the coach is leaving someone in when the game is long since decided. 

And don't forget, in 1998, Tara left Vanessa in against Washington (I think it was), last game of regular season, Stanford way ahead and the game didn't matter to anything. and she tore her ACL. I think Tara learned a lesson then. The first domino that led to the famous 1st round defeat.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. Oregon Sunday 5pm (spring forward) - NW Bias - 03-08-2020

Leaving Hebard and Ionescu in as long as Graves did tonight was unnecessary and risky, but I was surprised to read a post in this forum advocating for injuries for their players. I understand the frustration in losing to the Ducks again, but keep in mind how successful the Cardinal has been over three decades and how bright the future is for this program. 

As a fan of both the Cardinal and another PAC-12 program up north that has lost its share of recent games to the Ducks, I too look for clear reasons for the losses, such as offensive and/or defensive schemes. Take some solace in that Stanford isn't getting outcoached. Rather, beating a team that has three of the projected Top 5 picks in next month's WNBA Draft is a difficult task to tackle. What Stanford pulled off last year in Las Vegas was an incredible testimony to what the Stanford coaching staff can will from its players. Pulling it off in two consecutive  PAC-12 Tournament finals was simply too much to ask.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. Oregon Sunday 5pm (spring forward) - TheFarm07 - 03-08-2020

My focus now is hopefully a run to the Elite 8. As large of a defeat tonight was, Oregon is a premiere team and so it would probably not hurt our seeding. ESPN's Creme has us as a #2 seed in the Dallas regional, opposite Baylor. Baylor lost to Iowa State in the Big 12 Championship today and as still really good as they are, I believe they are not as strong as they were last year when they won the national title and don't forget, we were the only team to beat them last season.

Maybe we'll get good news and welcome back Brown and/or Jones when the first round starts in two weekends, so if (and a big if), we get the two of them back, maybe we can put together a good run and even beat Baylor (if that's our opponent).

But in the two week interim, while the players are taking finals, hopefully the coaching staff will focus on limiting turnovers and getting more than Kianna and Lexie involved on critical offensive plays.

RE: WBB: Oregon 89 Stanford 56 - 81alum - 03-08-2020

Brief Write-Up:

I have watched the game.  Painful.  I won't do a full post-mortem.  But here are my accumulated thoughts.

First, we have now played 7 top 25 teams in a row.  Back when we started this stretch, I thought we were shaky and would gladly have taken 4 out of 7 wins.  Overall, the team has finished well considering the injuries.  Realistically, I hope for 3 wins in the NCAAs to get us to another 30 win season, 4 wins and a final four would be a major achievement for us and I don't realistically expect it.

Stopping Oregon from scoring is not something other teams can control.  The team that beat Team USA has to have an off night AND their opponent has to have their best game of the season.  Neither of those two things were true tonight.

Tonight I was saddened by our drop off in defense as well as our inability to solve Oregon's defense.  We held Sabally down, but Minyon Moore had a career night.  No matter how many sharpshooters they have, we should not have given up 10/19 three point shots.  Our post defense was dreadful--we have done much better against Ruthy before, but gave her 9/11 tonight.

I could have accepted the loss more easily if Oregon just beat us in a footrace, but our offense looked disjointed and indecisive against the Oregon zone.  This is the third time we have played it, and while the Oregon players are superb offensive players, they are merely good defenders--not juggernauts.  By time three our offense should have done better. Instead, this was almost a carbon copy of our 55-87 drubbing in Eugene this year.

Overall, Oregon just shot the ball better than we did.  Both teams shot exactly 55 times.  Oregon made 10 treys and 21 twos.  Stanford made 6 treys and only 13 twos.  We had a big offensive rebounding edge, Oregon had a big turnover edge--these cancelled out.  Free throw attempts were 19 for us and 21 for them.  You just won't find gross statistical differences in those ways that would explain a 30+ point wipeout.

Here is what explains it:  Oregon shot 56%, we shot 35%.  That might be one of the worst shooting disparities in our history.  I certainly don't remember anything quite like it.

There were few bright spots in individual performances.  Lexie's offensive renaissance last night dwindled to 9 points today.  Williams was effective with 21 points and a high shooting percentage, but she was alone.  Dodson was quiet on offense.  Hebard scored right over the top of all of our bigs--none of them was particularly effective in the paint.

Prechtel was the one bright spot.  She barely played yesterday.  Today she got 19 minutes and was the only player in double figures other than Williams.  Not only was she 2/3 from three point range, she seems to me to be the most reliable offensive presence inside.  Her layups and putbacks usually go in.  I can't see what Tara must see--some sort of defensive flaw--because otherwise she should be starting and getting most of the minutes.

WISH LIST TO CHEER US UP:

I'm tempted to write-up the season, but we still have games to go.  But here is my wish list:

I wish that Anna Wilson gets her 5th year of eligibility, and her brother, in a gesture of good will toward Anna's team and Tara, offers to pay her tuition for a year, which would preserve the extra scholarship for....

Dijonai Carrington, who comes back as a redshirt senior to lead the team next year.

Behind the deep experience of Senior Williams, Redshirt Seniors Wilson and Carrington, Seniors Dodson and Jerome, older and wiser Hull sisters, rapidly maturing Belibi and Prectel, and healed-up Jones, and a fabulous freshman class with Brink--next year we dominate the Pac 12 and win Tara's third national championship.

That scenario does not really sound at all outlandish.  Just so long as we get a year that is relatively free from injuries.  I guess that is my greatest wish.

RE: WBB: Oregon 89 Stanford 56 - TheFarm07 - 03-08-2020

(03-08-2020, 09:19 PM)81alum Wrote:  Brief Write-Up:

I have watched the game.  Painful.  I won't do a full post-mortem.  But here are my accumulated thoughts.

First, we have now played 7 top 25 teams in a row.  Back when we started this stretch, I thought we were shaky and would gladly have taken 4 out of 7 wins.  Overall, the team has finished well considering the injuries.  Realistically, I hope for 3 wins in the NCAAs to get us to another 30 win season, 4 wins and a final four would be a major achievement for us and I don't realistically expect it.

Stopping Oregon from scoring is not something other teams can control.  The team that beat Team USA has to have an off night AND their opponent has to have their best game of the season.  Neither of those two things were true tonight.

Tonight I was saddened by our drop off in defense as well as our inability to solve Oregon's defense.  We held Sabally down, but Minyon Moore had a career night.  No matter how many sharpshooters they have, we should not have given up 10/19 three point shots.  Our post defense was dreadful--we have done much better against Ruthy before, but gave her 9/11 tonight.

I could have accepted the loss more easily if Oregon just beat us in a footrace, but our offense looked disjointed and indecisive against the Oregon zone.  This is the third time we have played it, and while the Oregon players are superb offensive players, they are merely good defenders--not juggernauts.  By time three our offense should have done better. Instead, this was almost a carbon copy of our 55-87 drubbing in Eugene this year.

Overall, Oregon just shot the ball better than we did.  Both teams shot exactly 55 times.  Oregon made 10 treys and 21 twos.  Stanford made 6 treys and only 13 twos.  We had a big offensive rebounding edge, Oregon had a big turnover edge--these cancelled out.  Free throw attempts were 19 for us and 21 for them.  You just won't find gross statistical differences in those ways that would explain a 30+ point wipeout.

Here is what explains it:  Oregon shot 56%, we shot 35%.  That might be one of the worst shooting disparities in our history.  I certainly don't remember anything quite like it.

There were few bright spots in individual performances.  Lexie's offensive renaissance last night dwindled to 9 points today.  Williams was effective with 21 points and a high shooting percentage, but she was alone.  Dodson was quiet on offense.  Hebard scored right over the top of all of our bigs--none of them was particularly effective in the paint.

Prechtel was the one bright spot.  She barely played yesterday.  Today she got 19 minutes and was the only player in double figures other than Williams.  Not only was she 2/3 from three point range, she seems to me to be the most reliable offensive presence inside.  Her layups and putbacks usually go in.  I can't see what Tara must see--some sort of defensive flaw--because otherwise she should be starting and getting most of the minutes.

WISH LIST TO CHEER US UP:

I'm tempted to write-up the season, but we still have games to go.  But here is my wish list:

I wish that Anna Wilson gets her 5th year of eligibility, and her brother, in a gesture of good will toward Anna's team and Tara, offers to pay her tuition for a year, which would preserve the extra scholarship for....

Dijonai Carrington, who comes back as a redshirt senior to lead the team next year.

Behind the deep experience of Senior Williams, Redshirt Seniors Wilson and Carrington, Seniors Dodson and Jerome, older and wiser Hull sisters, rapidly maturing Belibi and Prectel, and healed-up Jones, and a fabulous freshman class with Brink--next year we dominate the Pac 12 and win Tara's third national championship.

That scenario does not really sound at all outlandish.  Just so long as we get a year that is relatively free from injuries.  I guess that is my greatest wish.

Thanks for your analysis as always, 81. What do you think is wrong with our offense? That has been my chief concern this season. It can look great for a quarter or two or a game or two, but then we far too easily fall apart.

Two of my thoughts from your thoughts:


RE: WBB: Oregon 89 Stanford 56 - qwerty49 - 03-09-2020

Just watched the replay.  Props to Oregon, they're just way better than we are.  Just when I was enjoying a nice first quarter, they smoke us 29-9 in the 2nd Q.

Lots of stuff stood out tonight, unfortunately most of it on the Oregon side.  Moore, of course, making us pay for leaving her unguarded.  Ionescu finally deciding to be a little more selfish with the ball and creating more opportunities for the supporting cast as a result.  Hebard 9 for 11, virtually uncontested -- at one point I think I saw her make a flatfooted set shot from about 6 feet out.

I actually think the Hulls play with more toughness in the paint than any of our posts.  Or maybe they just take advantage of their opportunities more.  They're certainly great at help D.  Of the rest, I think Fingall gets the most out of her skills and plays with the most heart.  Belibi is so raw, and honestly I don't think I've seen Prechtel jump yet.  Dodson is finally starting to show some offense, but she's inconsistent and gets called for some silly fouls.  I think Jerome is better as an old-fashioned spot-up 3, not a 4, where she gets outmuscled a lot.

Prechtel is needed on offense but where, and in what scheme?  She reminds of Dirk Nowitski -- a really tall good shooter, but not at all a banger underneath.  Maybe next year she plays the classic high post and Dodson down low.  Or maybe next year we designate her as the aircraft carrier and go back to the triangle.

I think Wilson has earned a shot at another year.  But unless her bro pays her tuition, if Wilson comes back on scholie Carrington will probably grad transfer.  (And yeesh don't forget where DiJonnai's brother went to school.)

One thing nobody has mentioned -- could Kiana leave early for the pros? (Gulp)

Well, we have the big dance coming up and let's take it as far as we can.  Even if the first two rounds are in front of 245 people each sitting 3 rows apart, or whatever limitation the powers-that-be are going to place upon Maples.

RE: WBB: Oregon 89 Stanford 56 - TheFarm07 - 03-09-2020

(03-09-2020, 01:08 AM)qwerty49 Wrote:  One thing nobody has mentioned -- could Kiana leave early for the pros? (Gulp)

I haven't heard any rumblings about the possibility and I don't think she would. Even though it's now becoming something more of a possibility (Jewell Loyd, Jackie Young and now Satou Sabally), the vast majority of women's college basketball players (including the superstars like the Ogwumike sisters, Maya Moore, Breanna Stewart, Brittney Griner and Ionescu) stay all four years

As good as Kiana is, I don't think she is ready for the pros yet. She is still too inconsistent shot-wise, IMO. Plus, again, IMHO, unless she finishes her studies early and is graduating this year, it would be highly unlikely for a WBB player to leave Stanford early, especially since the WNBA and even playing overseas is not very lucrative and probably would not be worth forgoing a Stanford degree. But every person needs to make their own decision.

In this case, my concern about Kiana leaving early is pretty low on my list of things I am worried about regarding the team.
(03-09-2020, 01:08 AM)qwerty49 Wrote:  Prechtel is needed on offense but where, and in what scheme?  She reminds of Dirk Nowitski -- a really tall good shooter, but not at all a banger underneath.  Maybe next year she plays the classic high post and Dodson down low.  Or maybe next year we designate her as the aircraft carrier and go back to the triangle.

Cameron Brink will be coming in next season and on paper it seems like she and Prechtel have similar games. Tall forwards with great shooting prowess, so it will be interesting if they play on the court at the same time.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. Oregon Sunday 5pm (spring forward) - TheFarm07 - 03-09-2020

(03-08-2020, 06:45 PM)WBB fan Wrote:  
(03-08-2020, 06:43 PM)76lsjumb Wrote:  What was that about Ducks turtling?

Doesn’t look like it to me. Looks more like Geno is coaching them this evening...
Was thinking same thing. Starters still in while up 36

So Voepel's article on ESPN (https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/28868290/with-pac-12-sweep-hand-full-steam-ahead-oregon-ionescu) kind of sheds some light for why Graves kept his starters in. From my interpretation of the article, it seems that Voepel was implying that Graves is angling not just for a #1 seed (which is guaranteed), but the overall #1 seed:


'Up by 38 with 3:37 left, Oregon coach Kelly Graves finally pulled all his starters. The game was long over by then, and Oregon forcefully had made its point: The Ducks are going full speed ahead to the NCAA tournament, where they are expected to be the No. 1 seed in the Portland Regional.

'We knew the entire nation was watching,' Graves said. 'This is the time of year that committee members are watching, as well. It's not why we try -- you know, we don't play harder because of that -- but I think it's important the way we played this game, the way it played out.'

He also played up his team's accomplishments:

"We're still the most efficient offense in the country, and it is not even close," Oregon coach Kelly Graves said. "But now we can play both ends of the floor, which makes us really difficult to play, I think."


"We showed really everything that we can do tonight. This is a very effective team. We have 10 wins against teams that were in the top 16 in the last reveal. Ten. That's more than the other three projected No. 1s combined."

And minimized his team's losses:

Louisville -- "I look at the Louisville loss against a very good team and a game where we just weren't quite ready for a new defense. That was on the islands. I think sometimes you can discount any game played on an island tournament over Thanksgiving, you know." (my emphasis)


Arizona State -- "I think it really did motivate us," Graves said of falling 72-66 to the Sun Devils. "I watched that game a lot after ... we went through the motions. And I think from then on, we determined that's not going to happen again." (my emphasis)

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. Oregon Sunday 5pm (spring forward) - 76lsjumb - 03-09-2020

(03-09-2020, 08:23 PM)TheFarm07 Wrote:  
(03-08-2020, 06:45 PM)WBB fan Wrote:  
(03-08-2020, 06:43 PM)76lsjumb Wrote:  What was that about Ducks turtling?

Doesn’t look like it to me. Looks more like Geno is coaching them this evening...
Was thinking same thing. Starters still in while up 36

So Voepel's article on ESPN (https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/28868290/with-pac-12-sweep-hand-full-steam-ahead-oregon-ionescu) kind of sheds some light for why Graves kept his starters in. From my interpretation of the article, it seems that Voepel was implying that Graves is angling not just for a #1 seed (which is guaranteed), but the overall #1 seed:


'Up by 38 with 3:37 left, Oregon coach Kelly Graves finally pulled all his starters. The game was long over by then, and Oregon forcefully had made its point: The Ducks are going full speed ahead to the NCAA tournament, where they are expected to be the No. 1 seed in the Portland Regional.

'We knew the entire nation was watching,' Graves said. 'This is the time of year that committee members are watching, as well. It's not why we try -- you know, we don't play harder because of that -- but I think it's important the way we played this game, the way it played out.'

Like I said, it looked like Geno was coaching.  Like it or not, it's an approach that Geno has used very successfully to win a whole lot of championships.  It's intimidating, not just to the team you're humiliating at the moment, but to the next one you will be playing.  

It's also an approach our coaching staff has, as far as I can remember, never employed over the last 25 or so years [at least heading into or during tourney time].

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. Oregon Sunday 5pm (spring forward) - chimera - 03-09-2020

(03-09-2020, 08:23 PM)TheFarm07 Wrote:  
(03-08-2020, 06:45 PM)WBB fan Wrote:  
(03-08-2020, 06:43 PM)76lsjumb Wrote:  What was that about Ducks turtling?

Doesn’t look like it to me. Looks more like Geno is coaching them this evening...
Was thinking same thing. Starters still in while up 36

So Voepel's article on ESPN (https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/28868290/with-pac-12-sweep-hand-full-steam-ahead-oregon-ionescu) kind of sheds some light for why Graves kept his starters in. From my interpretation of the article, it seems that Voepel was implying that Graves is angling not just for a #1 seed (which is guaranteed), but the overall #1 seed:


'Up by 38 with 3:37 left, Oregon coach Kelly Graves finally pulled all his starters. The game was long over by then, and Oregon forcefully had made its point: The Ducks are going full speed ahead to the NCAA tournament, where they are expected to be the No. 1 seed in the Portland Regional.

'We knew the entire nation was watching,' Graves said. 'This is the time of year that committee members are watching, as well. It's not why we try -- you know, we don't play harder because of that -- but I think it's important the way we played this game, the way it played out.'

He also played up his team's accomplishments:

"We're still the most efficient offense in the country, and it is not even close," Oregon coach Kelly Graves said. "But now we can play both ends of the floor, which makes us really difficult to play, I think."


"We showed really everything that we can do tonight. This is a very effective team. We have 10 wins against teams that were in the top 16 in the last reveal. Ten. That's more than the other three projected No. 1s combined."

And minimized his team's losses:

Louisville -- "I look at the Louisville loss against a very good team and a game where we just weren't quite ready for a new defense. That was on the islands. I think sometimes you can discount any game played on an island tournament over Thanksgiving, you know." (my emphasis)


Arizona State -- "I think it really did motivate us," Graves said of falling 72-66 to the Sun Devils. "I watched that game a lot after ... we went through the motions. And I think from then on, we determined that's not going to happen again." (my emphasis)

Not a fan.  First of all, winning by 25 vs 30 vs 40 will have zero effect on their seeding, so it was stupid in that regard.  The committee is not going to move them ahead of South Carolina based on margin of victory in one game.  Second, they will be in Portland anyway, no matter what, so there is no need to move up to the #1 overall seed, if they are not there already.  For all he knows the draw could be easier for the #2 overall, just depending on matchups.  So double stupid.  Third, it is bad form to run up the score by leaving starters in no matter the reason, and a stupid reason makes it even worse.  He did it to feed his ego basically, and the heck with how it feels to the other team.  Poor sportsmanship and lame excuse for it. Oregon is now on my you know what list as long as Graves coaches.  

And oh yeah, the loss not counting is ridiculous, I hope he was joking.  Lame excuses with a team that talented and with a bunch of seniors leading it?  Get out of here.

RE: WBB: Oregon 89 Stanford 56 - BostonCard - 03-09-2020

It would be the ultimate irony if we face them a fourth time and beat them by 1.

BC

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. Oregon Sunday 5pm (spring forward) - treetop11 - 03-09-2020

(03-08-2020, 08:39 PM)NW Bias Wrote:  Leaving Hebard and Ionescu in as long as Graves did tonight was unnecessary and risky, but I was surprised to read a post in this forum advocating for injuries for their players. I understand the frustration in losing to the Ducks again, but keep in mind how successful the Cardinal has been over three decades and how bright the future is for this program. 

As a fan of both the Cardinal and another PAC-12 program up north that has lost its share of recent games to the Ducks, I too look for clear reasons for the losses, such as offensive and/or defensive schemes. Take some solace in that Stanford isn't getting outcoached. Rather, beating a team that has three of the projected Top 5 picks in next month's WNBA Draft is a difficult task to tackle. What Stanford pulled off last year in Las Vegas was an incredible testimony to what the Stanford coaching staff can will from its players. Pulling it off in two consecutive  PAC-12 Tournament finals was simply too much to ask.

I don't wish that on the players so much as on the coach an the program - and I wasn't saying a serious injury like ACL, a high ankle sprain would send a message. Stanford's football team lost 2 starting lineman and Bryce Love to injuries on late/end of game scenarios where there was no reason for them to be in there. The OL were vert serious injuries and most every poster here and on TOS lamented and criticized Shaw for having them in there in a meaningless situation and hoped he learned from that, so please spare me your self righteousness. Coaches should know that injuries to key players can and do happen in garbage time when the play gets careless or a sub from the other team is jacked to prove themself. Empty the bench and let the even the walk ons get their names in the box score and a chance to do something on the court as a reward for all their practice.
(03-08-2020, 09:19 PM)81alum Wrote:  Brief Write-Up:

I have watched the game.  Painful.  I won't do a full post-mortem.  But here are my accumulated thoughts.

First, we have now played 7 top 25 teams in a row.  Back when we started this stretch, I thought we were shaky and would gladly have taken 4 out of 7 wins.  Overall, the team has finished well considering the injuries.  Realistically, I hope for 3 wins in the NCAAs to get us to another 30 win season, 4 wins and a final four would be a major achievement for us and I don't realistically expect it.

Stopping Oregon from scoring is not something other teams can control.  The team that beat Team USA has to have an off night AND their opponent has to have their best game of the season.  Neither of those two things were true tonight.

Tonight I was saddened by our drop off in defense as well as our inability to solve Oregon's defense.  We held Sabally down, but Minyon Moore had a career night.  No matter how many sharpshooters they have, we should not have given up 10/19 three point shots.  Our post defense was dreadful--we have done much better against Ruthy before, but gave her 9/11 tonight.

I could have accepted the loss more easily if Oregon just beat us in a footrace, but our offense looked disjointed and indecisive against the Oregon zone.  This is the third time we have played it, and while the Oregon players are superb offensive players, they are merely good defenders--not juggernauts.  By time three our offense should have done better. Instead, this was almost a carbon copy of our 55-87 drubbing in Eugene this year.

Overall, Oregon just shot the ball better than we did.  Both teams shot exactly 55 times.  Oregon made 10 treys and 21 twos.  Stanford made 6 treys and only 13 twos.  We had a big offensive rebounding edge, Oregon had a big turnover edge--these cancelled out.  Free throw attempts were 19 for us and 21 for them.  You just won't find gross statistical differences in those ways that would explain a 30+ point wipeout.

Here is what explains it:  Oregon shot 56%, we shot 35%.  That might be one of the worst shooting disparities in our history.  I certainly don't remember anything quite like it.

There were few bright spots in individual performances.  Lexie's offensive renaissance last night dwindled to 9 points today.  Williams was effective with 21 points and a high shooting percentage, but she was alone.  Dodson was quiet on offense.  Hebard scored right over the top of all of our bigs--none of them was particularly effective in the paint.

Prechtel was the one bright spot.  She barely played yesterday.  Today she got 19 minutes and was the only player in double figures other than Williams.  Not only was she 2/3 from three point range, she seems to me to be the most reliable offensive presence inside.  Her layups and putbacks usually go in.  I can't see what Tara must see--some sort of defensive flaw--because otherwise she should be starting and getting most of the minutes.

WISH LIST TO CHEER US UP:

I'm tempted to write-up the season, but we still have games to go.  But here is my wish list:

I wish that Anna Wilson gets her 5th year of eligibility, and her brother, in a gesture of good will toward Anna's team and Tara, offers to pay her tuition for a year, which would preserve the extra scholarship for....

Dijonai Carrington, who comes back as a redshirt senior to lead the team next year.

Behind the deep experience of Senior Williams, Redshirt Seniors Wilson and Carrington, Seniors Dodson and Jerome, older and wiser Hull sisters, rapidly maturing Belibi and Prectel, and healed-up Jones, and a fabulous freshman class with Brink--next year we dominate the Pac 12 and win Tara's third national championship.

That scenario does not really sound at all outlandish.  Just so long as we get a year that is relatively free from injuries.  I guess that is my greatest wish.
Don't agree with you about Oregon D - they are very good and better than us. They stick to their opposing players tight, are aggressive and make steals, don't allow easy passes into the post or many open threes plus they defensive rebound well. Their D beats us as much as their O.
We started fine by running them off the 3 pt line and preventing shots or forcing them to make bad/quick shots. Then Ionescu took over, driving and hitting mid range shots. We then started to collapse our D more to stop her and the 3 pt line opened up for the ducks - bingo, game over.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. Oregon Sunday 5pm (spring forward) - NW Bias - 03-10-2020

When you have to explain the extent of the injury that you are wishing on opposing players, most observers will realize that you have gone too far with your post. Not attempting to be self righteous. Just pointing out when a poster let his love for the program outweigh his good sense. I didn't call the poster out by name in my original post, but I am guessing that treetop11 felt compelled to explain his post. To a Stanford fan, it is still not acceptable to wish any injury on opposing players. Period.
(03-08-2020, 08:39 PM)NW Bias Wrote:  Leaving Hebard and Ionescu in as long as Graves did tonight was unnecessary and risky, but I was surprised to read a post in this forum advocating for injuries for their players. I understand the frustration in losing to the Ducks again, but keep in mind how successful the Cardinal has been over three decades and how bright the future is for this program. 

As a fan of both the Cardinal and another PAC-12 program up north that has lost its share of recent games to the Ducks, I too look for clear reasons for the losses, such as offensive and/or defensive schemes. Take some solace in that Stanford isn't getting outcoached. Rather, beating a team that has three of the projected Top 5 picks in next month's WNBA Draft is a difficult task to tackle. What Stanford pulled off last year in Las Vegas was an incredible testimony to what the Stanford coaching staff can will from its players. Pulling it off in two consecutive  PAC-12 Tournament finals was simply too much to ask.


RE: WBB: Oregon 89 Stanford 56 - teejers1 - 03-10-2020

(03-09-2020, 01:08 AM)qwerty49 Wrote:  Prechtel is needed on offense but where, and in what scheme?  She reminds of Dirk Nowitski -- a really tall good shooter, but not at all a banger underneath.  Maybe next year she plays the classic high post and Dodson down low.  Or maybe next year we designate her as the aircraft carrier and go back to the triangle.

Prechtel's drawback is lack of strength.  She is incredibly skilled and can score, but she gets bullied on the court quite a bit, on both ends.

But it has been clear to this fan that Prechtel represents the highest "upside" for this team, on a game-over-game basis.  Why she hasn't played more remains a mystery.  Maybe Tara is fine with a Sweet 16 appearance, which this team can achieve with limited help from Prechtel.  But I would have developed the upside potential more earlier this year, for a better shot at the Final Four.  And btw, a FF is still not out of the question . . . it will just take Herculean efforts from our regular cast of offensive players (Williams, Hull, and then a third contributor on O who may vary game to game).

RE: WBB: Oregon 89 Stanford 56 - BostonCard - 03-10-2020

(03-10-2020, 10:48 AM)teejers1 Wrote:  But it has been clear to this fan that Prechtel represents the highest "upside" for this team, on a game-over-game basis.  Why she hasn't played more remains a mystery.  Maybe Tara is fine with a Sweet 16 appearance, which this team can achieve with limited help from Prechtel.  But I would have developed the upside potential more earlier this year, for a better shot at the Final Four.  And btw, a FF is still not out of the question . . . it will just take Herculean efforts from our regular cast of offensive players (Williams, Hull, and then a third contributor on O who may vary game to game).

I don't know, we beat an anticipated two seed (UCLA) and four seed (OSU) quite handily in the Pac-12 tournament (I don't think Prechtel played at all against UCLA).  That bodes well for our chances to at least make the elite eight.  We flailed badly, of course, against a top seed (probably likely 1 or 2 overall), but playing Prechtel more doesn't fix that.  So, looking forward, does playing Prechtel more help us in an elite eight game against the third or fourth (overall) seed to get us to the final four.  So, I agree a final four isn't out of the question.  And while it will be an uphill battle, I wouldn't call it Herculean.  Oregon and South Carolina are a step ahead of Baylor, which in turn is a big step ahead of the other plausible #1 seeds and #2 seeds.

BC

RE: WBB: Oregon 89 Stanford 56 - mbdude - 03-10-2020

I don't recall Prechtel being "bullied" that much; by whom? During a postgame interview after the USC game she mentioned that the coaches has told her to be more aggressive on the offensive boards and she has done that. 

She contributed significantly in the OSU game in which Jones was  hurt and then started the next 5, 5th being UCLA loss - then Tara decided to go with Jerome as starter for the next few games, and then Maya returned. I am another who doesn't understand the logic of her not getting more time.
Maya at the high post does nothing for our offense. not a threat to shoot

RE: WBB: Oregon 89 Stanford 56 - BosCard - 03-10-2020

(03-10-2020, 11:41 AM)mbdude Wrote:  I don't recall Prechtel being "bullied" that much; by whom? During a postgame interview after the USC game she mentioned that the coaches has told her to be more aggressive on the offensive boards and she has done that. 

She contributed significantly in the OSU game in which Jones was  hurt and then started the next 5, 5th being UCLA loss - then Tara decided to go with Jerome as starter for the next few games, and then Maya returned. I am another who doesn't understand the logic of her not getting more time.
Maya at the high post does nothing for our offense. not a threat to shoot

Prechtel and Fingall play the same position which I am going to call the "shooting big".  I think the reason we are seeing Fingall get most of those minutes is because her individual defense and help defense are much better right now.  I think it just takes time for freshmen to learn the intricacies of what Tara wants defensively.  However, I would not be surprised to see Prechtel starting next year.  She has tremendous upside both offensively and defensively and she is way ahead of where Fingall was as a freshman (and similarly I think Belibi is way ahead of where Dodson was as a freshman).

RE: WBB: Oregon 89 Stanford 56 - 2006alum - 03-10-2020

(03-10-2020, 01:15 PM)BosCard Wrote:  Prechtel and Fingall play the same position which I am going to call the "shooting big".  I think the reason we are seeing Fingall get most of those minutes is because her individual defense and help defense are much better right now.  I think it just takes time for freshmen to learn the intricacies of what Tara wants defensively.  However, I would not be surprised to see Prechtel starting next year.  She has tremendous upside both offensively and defensively and she is way ahead of where Fingall was as a freshman (and similarly I think Belibi is way ahead of where Dodson was as a freshman).

+1. Prechtel is definitely an ideal high post shooting big, but Fingall already fills that role, and both Dodson and Belibi do their damage at the low post.

RE: WBB: Oregon 89 Stanford 56 - 76lsjumb - 03-10-2020

(03-10-2020, 02:04 PM)2006alum Wrote:  
(03-10-2020, 01:15 PM)BosCard Wrote:  Prechtel and Fingall play the same position which I am going to call the "shooting big".  I think the reason we are seeing Fingall get most of those minutes is because her individual defense and help defense are much better right now.  I think it just takes time for freshmen to learn the intricacies of what Tara wants defensively.  However, I would not be surprised to see Prechtel starting next year.  She has tremendous upside both offensively and defensively and she is way ahead of where Fingall was as a freshman (and similarly I think Belibi is way ahead of where Dodson was as a freshman).

+1. Prechtel is definitely an ideal high post shooting big, but Fingall already fills that role, and both Dodson and Belibi do their damage at the low post.

Fingall averaged 24.8 min/gm, while Prechtel averaged 14.6 min/gm.  Thus, Fingall played essentially one full quarter [10 minutes] more per game than Prechtel.  Otherwise put, Prechtel’s playing time was approximately 60% that of Fingall’s.  Their relative stats included:
 
                                Fingall                   Prechtel
 
FG/FGA                82-176                   91-196
 
FG%                       .466                        .464
 
3-pt                        23-67                     23-70
 
FT                           23-38                     12-21
 
OR/DR/Tot          61/113/174         39/106/145
 
Fouls                     57                           44
 
Assist/TO             34/40                     22/22
 
Blocks                   34                           31
 
Steals                    30                           15
 
Pts/avg                 210/6.8                 217/7.2
 
Statistically, I don’t believe either player was clearly better than the other, so it is certainly understandable that Fingall, as the senior, got the nod for substantially more playing time.  At the same time, at least statistically, I think Prechtel will be [and, arguably, has already been] the better player offensively, and no slouch densively.  Also, as to being “bullied,” I didn’t really see that on the floor, and I would argue that, were it true, she wouldn’t have the impressive rebounding [particularly D rebounds] and shot-blocking stats that she did.  And, offensively, her Assist:TO ratio is pretty good for a frosh big.  Finally, her ability all season long to hit clutch shots [both short and long] was impressive.

If she doesn't start, and play substantially more minutes, next season, I'd really be surprised.

RE: WBB: Oregon 89 Stanford 56 - 81alum - 03-29-2020

This morning's New York Times has a big feature on Ionescu.  It discusses the day when she attended Kobe's funeral, then flew north to play us.


Quote:Just as at Oregon State, she couldn’t go through a full warm-up. The emotions of the day were finally hitting. Instead of being with her teammates, she was vomiting in the locker room. Once again, she barely made it to the court before tipoff.

Again Ionescu would recall little, even though this time she made more history. When she gathered an errant shot in the third quarter, Ionescu became the only player in college history, male or female, with 2,000 career points, 1,000 assists and 1,000 rebounds.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/28/sports/sabrina-ionescu-oregon-wnba.html?action=click&module=Editors%20Picks&pgtype=Homepage

The psychological stress these athletes go through can be extreme.  I respect Ionescu for coming back for her senior year.  She did deserve a better ending than she got.