MBB win @ Arizona: STAN 73 AZ 64 - Printable Version
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RE: MBB win @ Arizona: STAN 73 AZ 64 - burger - 01-29-2021
(01-29-2021, 12:06 PM)AlbanyCardinal Wrote: It's interesting to me that losing those three starters offered some possibility for addition by subtraction. Not throwing any of those guys under the bus, but others have emerged to pick up the slack, to get better with experience, and to make for what I'll call a tighter style of play.This sort phenomenon--unheralded back up gets promoted to starter because of injury and suddenly blossoms--happens so often in all sports that there should be a name for it (note: and it shouldn't be named after Tom Brady; it should be named after a player not universally hated).
RE: MBB win @ Arizona: STAN 73 AZ 64 - winflop - 01-29-2021
(01-29-2021, 10:52 AM)AlbanyCardinal Wrote: Great stuff, thanks for sharing that lineup explorer link. For me, Da Silva, Delaire, and Jones are cemented as starters. Wills is such a defensive force, it's hard for me keep him out of the starting lineup. DD has been one of my favorite players since he came to the Farm. He's carried this team more than a few times. All that said, I still find myself leaning toward O'Connell as the fifth starter. He quietly steadies the team and makes so many good things happen.
In any case, to have so much depth -- assuming some of the walking wounded return -- is a good problem to have. To think of having ZW, DD, BW, and/or O'Connell to bring in from the bench?
(01-29-2021, 10:34 AM)burger Wrote: Here's a hypothetical (for now): everyone on the team is healthy. Who starts?
I'd go with:
Da Silva
Jones
Wills
Davis
Delaire
And the first guy who makes the slightest mistake gets subbed out for O'Connell.
I love Williams, but I don't think he's one of the top 6 players on the team right now.
And I can back it up. I messed around with this lineup explorer and compared lineups with each guy on and off the court. It's not a perfect measure because of teammate effects, but it's a good start.
Delaire is by far the best player on the team so far (+17 net rating in points per 100 possessions). Followed by Wills (+9.1), Da Silva (+8.7), and Jones (+4.7). Williams is +3.5. Davis is -1.1, but he seemed to be playing better just before the injury.
Matchups may change who should start from game to game, but those 5 are our best right now.
We will have depth when Davis & Wills are back in the lineup. Until then we don't.
RE: MBB win @ Arizona: STAN 73 AZ 64 - GK3 - 01-29-2021
(01-29-2021, 01:11 PM)winflop Wrote:(01-29-2021, 10:52 AM)AlbanyCardinal Wrote: Great stuff, thanks for sharing that lineup explorer link. For me, Da Silva, Delaire, and Jones are cemented as starters. Wills is such a defensive force, it's hard for me keep him out of the starting lineup. DD has been one of my favorite players since he came to the Farm. He's carried this team more than a few times. All that said, I still find myself leaning toward O'Connell as the fifth starter. He quietly steadies the team and makes so many good things happen.
But we don't absolutely have to bring them back at the earliest possible time. We have proven we can win tough games without them, so get them fully healthy then have them for a run at the end of the year.
In any case, to have so much depth -- assuming some of the walking wounded return -- is a good problem to have. To think of having ZW, DD, BW, and/or O'Connell to bring in from the bench?
(01-29-2021, 10:34 AM)burger Wrote: Here's a hypothetical (for now): everyone on the team is healthy. Who starts?
I'd go with:
Da Silva
Jones
Wills
Davis
Delaire
And the first guy who makes the slightest mistake gets subbed out for O'Connell.
I love Williams, but I don't think he's one of the top 6 players on the team right now.
And I can back it up. I messed around with this lineup explorer and compared lineups with each guy on and off the court. It's not a perfect measure because of teammate effects, but it's a good start.
Delaire is by far the best player on the team so far (+17 net rating in points per 100 possessions). Followed by Wills (+9.1), Da Silva (+8.7), and Jones (+4.7). Williams is +3.5. Davis is -1.1, but he seemed to be playing better just before the injury.
Matchups may change who should start from game to game, but those 5 are our best right now.
We will have depth when Davis & Wills are back in the lineup. Until then we don't.
RE: MBB win @ Arizona: STAN 73 AZ 64 - Spiny_Norman - 01-29-2021
(01-29-2021, 12:06 PM)AlbanyCardinal Wrote: Interesting. Makes sense re: ZW. He was quite TO-prone and the numbers prove it. It's interesting to me that losing those three starters offered some possibility for addition by subtraction. Not throwing any of those guys under the bus, but others have emerged to pick up the slack, to get better with experience, and to make for what I'll call a tighter style of play. This is a testament to Haase's remarkable recruiting, b/c few teams could lose three key starters and maintain (or even improve) team success.
Credit due to the coaching as well. They clearly can teach defense. The conditioning of the team has been notable. We've seen strong 2nd half efforts even from players who have been on the court for most of the game. And the coaches have been able to keep the players together in the face of adversity. None of that happens by chance. The coaches have done a good job of getting the most out of just about everyone who has been asked to contribute.
Ziaire Williams is still a work in process. He varies between trying to do too much (forced shots and TOs) and stepping back too much to let the game come to him. And his role in the offense is limited by his inability to attack the basket. From what I have seen, he prefers the perimeter and shooting jump shots (which he has not been very effective at making).
RE: MBB win @ Arizona: STAN 73 AZ 64 - burger - 01-29-2021
(01-29-2021, 03:01 PM)Spiny_Norman Wrote: Ziaire Williams is still a work in process. He varies between trying to do too much (forced shots and TOs) and stepping back too much to let the game come to him. And his role in the offense is limited by his inability to attack the basket. From what I have seen, he prefers the perimeter and shooting jump shots (which he has not been very effective at making).
He's probably gone after this season, but another year of coaching could do wonders for Ziaire. I look at the freshman to soph improvement in guys like KZ Okpala or Spencer Jones under Haase. There's really no limit to what Williams might do in 2021-2022. Unfortunately, it probably won't be in a Stanford uniform.
RE: MBB win @ Arizona: STAN 73 AZ 64 - Brickcity - 01-29-2021
(01-29-2021, 03:07 PM)burger Wrote:(01-29-2021, 03:01 PM)Spiny_Norman Wrote: Ziaire Williams is still a work in process. He varies between trying to do too much (forced shots and TOs) and stepping back too much to let the game come to him. And his role in the offense is limited by his inability to attack the basket. From what I have seen, he prefers the perimeter and shooting jump shots (which he has not been very effective at making).
He's probably gone after this season, but another year of coaching could do wonders for Ziaire. I look at the freshman to soph improvement in guys like KZ Okpala or Spencer Jones under Haase. There's really no limit to what Williams might do in 2021-2022. Unfortunately, it probably won't be in a Stanford uniform.
Yep, he's probably gonzo. And, there's little doubt, in his current incarnation, the offense works better when he's not in there given the problems expressed above.
RE: MBB win @ Arizona: STAN 73 AZ 64 - AlbanyCardinal - 01-29-2021
I wonder. As the season's progressed, I think the door's opened wider for him to stay another year. He has obvious things to work on, he has muscle to put on his frame, his team has a good thing going and he could be a big part of it next season, he's surely bonded with this team (especially given the circumstances), he sees players developing under this coaching staff and he might see that he could do the same, and he's been deprived of a normal year on the Farm, complete with fans in the seats, students (including prospective dating material) on campus, and live, in-person classes. Perhaps the biggest factor is his parents, but he came to Stanford for a reason -- and it wasn't to contend for a national championship (or maybe it was?!). :^)
RE: MBB win @ Arizona: STAN 73 AZ 64 - Papa John - 01-29-2021
The win over UA did not move the needle on Joe Lunardi's latest bracketology that came out this morning. We're still a 12-seed, last four in.
RE: MBB win @ Arizona: STAN 73 AZ 64 - Brickcity - 01-29-2021
(01-29-2021, 03:58 PM)AlbanyCardinal Wrote: I wonder. As the season's progressed, I think the door's opened wider for him to stay another year. He has obvious things to work on, he has muscle to put on his frame, his team has a good thing going and he could be a big part of it next season, he's surely bonded with this team (especially given the circumstances), he sees players developing under this coaching staff and he might see that he could do the same, and he's been deprived of a normal year on the Farm, complete with fans in the seats, students (including prospective dating material) on campus, and live, in-person classes. Perhaps the biggest factor is his parents, but he came to Stanford for a reason -- and it wasn't to contend for a national championship (or maybe it was?!). :^)
You're being WAY too logical! :-) Seriously, it would make all the sense in the world for Ziare to return next year. First, assuming he has a breakout year, his draft stock will go up. I have little doubt he'll be a first round pick after this season based purely on potential. But, staying another season could be the difference between being a top 5 to 10 pick vs. taken late in the first round. Moreover, if he does leave after this season, I really have a hard time believing he'd get court time next year other than in the D-league. Eventually, he'll be a good NBA player but he has a lot of progress he needs to make first IMHO.
RE: MBB win @ Arizona: STAN 73 AZ 64 - BostonCard - 01-30-2021
Don't get your hopes up.
1) The NBA drafts on projections, not on performance, and Williams projects well.
2) He will likely improve faster by playing basketball fulltime instead of having to balance it with academics.
3) The longer he stays, the more polished he will be expected to be.
If his goal is the NBA, he will likely be gone as soon as he can.
BC
RE: MBB win @ Arizona: STAN 73 AZ 64 - Brickcity - 01-30-2021
(01-30-2021, 12:05 AM)BostonCard Wrote: Don't get your hopes up.
1) The NBA drafts on projections, not on performance, and Williams projects well.
2) He will likely improve faster by playing basketball fulltime instead of having to balance it with academics.
3) The longer he stays, the more polished he will be expected to be.
If his goal is the NBA, he will likely be gone as soon as he can.
BC
I think you're right in that he's almost certainly gone. That said, I still have a hard time believing he'll be a part of an NBA rotation next year. But, I guess it's all about making the Benjamin's.
RE: MBB win @ Arizona: STAN 73 AZ 64 - GK3 - 01-30-2021
(01-28-2021, 10:11 PM)DenverCard Wrote: A LOT to like about this team and the mental toughness of the players. Delaire is growing up before our eyes -- He was a rock star tonight. Kasunas looks like a different player from just a month ago. He even looks bigger and more athletic than earlier in the season. O'Connell reminds me of Chris Hernandez -- smart, steady, never misses a free throw. Or commits a turnover. Missing three starters, and we win in Tucson for the first time in how many years? Amazing!
Seems to me that if all the players suited up from both teams showed up one afternoon at the YMCA to play shirts and skins, most of the top 10 chosen would be Arizona players. But in a setting in which defense -- individual and team -- carries the day, you'd pick mostly the Stanford guys.
If you are picking based on how the guys were ranked coming out of high school maybe so, but if you are choosing based on Coach's tough and invested standards, you might choose our guys.
RE: MBB win @ Arizona: STAN 73 AZ 64 - winflop - 01-30-2021
(01-29-2021, 03:58 PM)AlbanyCardinal Wrote: I wonder. As the season's progressed, I think the door's opened wider for him to stay another year. He has obvious things to work on, he has muscle to put on his frame, his team has a good thing going and he could be a big part of it next season, he's surely bonded with this team (especially given the circumstances), he sees players developing under this coaching staff and he might see that he could do the same, and he's been deprived of a normal year on the Farm, complete with fans in the seats, students (including prospective dating material) on campus, and live, in-person classes. Perhaps the biggest factor is his parents, but he came to Stanford for a reason -- and it wasn't to contend for a national championship (or maybe it was?!). :^)
Yes he could benefit from this, but he's going to be paid millions while doing it
RE: MBB win @ Arizona: STAN 73 AZ 64 - CTcard - 01-30-2021
(01-30-2021, 12:05 AM)BostonCard Wrote: If his goal is the NBA, he will likely be gone as soon as he can.
It's not quite as simple as that. It depends how exclusive the NBA goal is and how much value he sees in college.
Of course it is by far the most likely outcome for all players, so not exactly a stretch prediction.
It is a curious phenomenon that easily the top NBA draft prospect on the team is one many fans are saying should not be in the starting lineup.
RE: MBB win @ Arizona: STAN 73 AZ 64 - SamuelMcF - 01-30-2021
(01-30-2021, 09:40 AM)CTcard Wrote:(01-30-2021, 12:05 AM)BostonCard Wrote: If his goal is the NBA, he will likely be gone as soon as he can.
It's not quite as simple as that. It depends how exclusive the NBA goal is and how much value he sees in college.
Of course it is by far the most likely outcome for all players, so not exactly a stretch prediction.
It is a curious phenomenon that easily the top NBA draft prospect on the team is one many fans are saying should not be in the starting lineup.
The #4 pick this past season, Patrick Williams of FSU, started exactly ZERO games in his one and done season. Conference 6th man of the year.