WBB: Stanford 58 USC 67 - Printable Version

WBB: Stanford 58 USC 67 - Printable Version

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RE: WBB: Stanford vs. USC (Now on Pac-12 Network)) - Hieronymus - 02-02-2024

- I am not going to miss the PAC announcers when we move to the ACC
- entry passes have been a problem - still too many slow lobs
- I thought the officiating was consistent in the first half, but pretty wobbly in the second
- The whole team looked sluggish and slow today
- obviously no answers for Watkins
- terrible shooting in general for us - missed several open jump shots we needed to hit
- Cam and Kiki especially couldn’t hit anything outside or in the midrange today
- overall not many positives today especially on offense

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. USC (Now on Pac-12 Network)) - PalmTree - 02-02-2024

(02-02-2024, 09:47 PM)MV72018 Wrote:
(02-02-2024, 09:44 PM)martyup Wrote: 3 of SC's bigs have fouled out. We have 4 minutes to overcome a 6 point deficit. We can do this.

Agreed.

Stanford doesn't have a defensive-stopper guard. Watkins continues to do what she wants.

Down to 2, 58-56!

Turnovers killing Stanford.

Lepolo on Watkins doesn't come close to working.

Game, set, match.

Time to let it go - we are who we are, and WE'RE.NOT.SC....

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. USC (Now on Pac-12 Network)) - SkiBum80 - 02-02-2024

Misery

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. USC (Now on Pac-12 Network)) - PVTree - 02-02-2024

Juju... Incredible... Unbelievable... What a player.

The killer was the off balance shot with time running out at the end to increase the lead to 4. I felt deflated after that shot. Seems like the team also felt the same.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. USC (Now on Pac-12 Network)) - Card10Fan - 02-02-2024

I thought this would be a tough game and I think there’s a decent chance we could lose Sunday too. You just expect us at home to play a little more fiery and amped up and USC won all the hustle plays. We did not deserve to win this game at all. Poor poor offensive play and we really let an opponent score 51 points on our home court. That is inexcusable. Not many if any positives tonight. If you can’t score and you can’t defend the opponents best player . You are not going to put yourself in position to win games.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. USC (Now on Pac-12 Network)) - JohnR34231 - 02-02-2024

Watkins ended up with 51. I don't care if she is Superwoman; I just can't believe we couldn't hold an opposing player down better than that.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. USC (Now on Pac-12 Network)) - BosCard - 02-02-2024

I don’t agree with all the hand-wringing and misery. We knew this was going to be a pretty even match-up going in. Watkins made a lot of jump shots and played great. Brink and Iriafen were fouled all night and they missed a ton of shots. And yet we still had a chance to win at the end. If Brink and Iriafen shoot the ball poorly we can’t really expect to beat a really good team yet we almost did.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. USC (Now on Pac-12 Network)) - tahoma17 - 02-02-2024

(02-02-2024, 10:08 PM)Card10Fan Wrote: I thought this would be a tough game and I think there’s a decent chance we could lose Sunday too. You just expect us at home to play a little more fiery and amped up and USC won all the hustle plays. We did not deserve to win this game at all. Poor poor offensive play and we really let an opponent score 51 points on our home court. That is inexcusable. Not many if any positives tonight. If you can’t score and you can’t defend the opponents best player . You are not going to put yourself in position to win games.

Having watched some of USC's games this year, I thought Watkins would be a match-up problem for us, given her speed, height, and ability to score. What I didn't count on was that she alone could beat us, particularly when their front line fouled out. It seems like something was wrong with Kiki and Cam; I can't recall either of them missing so many shots in a game. Illness, bad luck, or ????? Let's hope the team puts it together for the game on Sunday.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. USC (Now on Pac-12 Network)) - MV72018 - 02-02-2024

(02-02-2024, 10:03 PM)PalmTree Wrote:
(02-02-2024, 09:47 PM)MV72018 Wrote:
(02-02-2024, 09:44 PM)martyup Wrote: 3 of SC's bigs have fouled out. We have 4 minutes to overcome a 6 point deficit. We can do this.

Agreed.

Stanford doesn't have a defensive-stopper guard. Watkins continues to do what she wants.

Down to 2, 58-56!

Turnovers killing Stanford.

Lepolo on Watkins doesn't come close to working.

Game, set, match.

Time to let it go - we are who we are, and WE'RE.NOT.SC....

RE: WBB: Stanford 58 USC 67 - BillBradley - 02-02-2024

- Poor shooting, poor defense, poor coaching, and their MVP was on fire. The stars were aligned for the Trojans tonight. We beat them 9 out of 10, even on a neutral court. Not sour grapes, I just think that's true.
- As posted before the game, I was worried about Juju getting too many FT attempts. A few were in the last minute, but 19 is way too many. I was impressed with her floor game and hoops IQ though. She understands spacing so well. She is impressive.
- re: poor coaching...I can't believe Tara let Lepolo guard Juju so much. I just can't believe it. You have to put length on her and make her attack over someone. Force her into Cam and Kiki. She shot over Lepolo time after time after time. She just abused Lepolo, and it wasn't because Telana wasn't in good position or trying hard enough. Physically she can't guard her. I thought Nunu did a really nice job on her and even Ogden and Bosgana's length were a better choice. Or even Cam! Also, why no Harriel in the second half? We couldn't buy a perimeter shot yet our hottest shooter is on the bench?
- Cam played 37 minutes, which is a lot for her. I thought she showed some fatigue throughout. Probably good for her to play that many minutes because we'll need her to do that come tourney time. Although a poor shooting night, she almost had a triple double. Warrior.
- Really rough night for Demetre. Decent defense, but 2 points and 0 boards in 17 minutes. Hitting the top of the backboard on a corner 3? So not like her.

Just noticed while looking at the box score..they shot 32.8% and won.

RE: WBB: Stanford 58 USC 67 - Card10Fan - 02-02-2024

I'm still annoyed at how this game played out. We were probably Watkins runner up school. The coaches are fully aware of her talent. We RECRUITED HER. Watkins is fired up to play against us and we let her get 51 AT MAPLES IN OUR BUILDING. Like, I just have to shake my head over and over. I know she was hot but that should just never happen.

Like, protect your home court. Take some pride in guarding someone. Make anyone else on the court beat you. Clearly, our team just didn't have it tonight but I just hate losing to USC and in possibly our last ever matchup. (TBD for future schedules). A very regrettable night of Stanford WBB.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. USC (Now on Pac-12 Network)) - joemontes - 02-02-2024

(02-02-2024, 10:12 PM)JohnR34231 Wrote: Watkins ended up with 51. I don't care if she is Superwoman; I just can't believe we couldn't hold an opposing player down better than that.

What a talent Juju WATKINS, just a freshman! Same can be said of Hannah HIDALGO of Notre Dame.
If the WCBB season were to end now, those two should be First Team AAs.

And to think that those two were the last two Top 5 recruits to make their commitments and
both had Stanford as one of their finalists.

RE: WBB: Stanford 58 USC 67 - 81alum - 02-02-2024

As you can tell from my preview, I have been very worried about this game--even more worried than Sunday's. And this is one of those times when my doubts were confirmed.

1) No Stanford woman in the history of Stanford WBB has scored more than 46 points on any floor. At Maples, we have been able to hold some phenomenal players, like Maya Moore and Kelsey Plum, to below their averages. But we were unable to do so on FRESHMAN Juju Watkins. We did try some interesting things. I noticed that in the halfcourt the player guarding her--often Lepolo--would edge to Juju's right, deliberately letting her drive left. We must think that this is Juju's bad side. And as soon as Juju would head left a second player would rotate. So we had a plan. But this plan failed for two reasons First, Juju shot the ball with a hand in her face and still made her shots. In other words, good defense on her did not work. And second, in the first half she frequently made shots in transition before we set up the defense. An inability to get in front of her in transition was deadly. In the fourth quarter we held her to a single basket. However, she also sank 8/10 free throws in the quarter. If we play USC again, in the Pac 12 tournament, I think we can learn some things that may help. But we doubled her, we tried Bosgana, Lepolo, Agara, and even Iriafen against her, and they all picked up too many fouls or were ineffective.

2) I remember Tara talking about some of those amazing one-woman performances on a prior occasion, and that she observed that sometimes you can win a game even when you give up one of those. She was probably referring to a Kelsey Plum game. If one opposing player does all the scoring and your offense spreads it around, you can still come out on top. We could have too, and got it to 2 points with 2 minutes to go--and with Juju's accuracy finally ebbing. The real key to our loss, in my view, was not the 51 point Watkins outpouring, but our own offense's problems. Gottlieb seems to have our number. Last year we lost in a low scoring slugfest at USC and barely won in a low scoring slugfest at Maples. USC had 6'4" Rayah Marshall foul out, 6'2" Kaitlyn Davis foul out, and 6'6" Clarice Akunwafo fouled out. All their tall players fouled out. Everyone taller than Juju Watkins fouled out. There was a reason for that. They were patrolling the paint and doing everything possible to deny the entrance pass and to grab the rebounds--even at a cost of being overly physical. They all fouled out, but they discombobulated Brink and Iriafen who collectively were 10/32. Brink made only 4 baskets and a whole heap of free throws. But the rhythm of our offense was completely out of whack.

3) Statistically the game was close. Both teams shot poorly--33% and 32%. The teams were tied in rebounds. The teams were nearly tied in made and taken free throws. We had 6 more turnovers but 7 more assists.

4) In terms of individual performances, it is hard to evaluate a game like this. How do you judge Brink or Iriafen who were clobbered by three players who fouled out? How do you evaluate Lepolo who expended herself fouling out trying to guard Watkins? Ogden was the only player in positive +/-, and she had 0 points and 4 fouls in 9 minutes. To her credit, Lepolo had 0 turnovers tonight--a big improvement from her last game.

5) Brink had 8 blocks. That is worth noting.

6) I was surrounded by fans who were appalled at the officiating and screamed loudly at the officials for much of the game. This included some who always do this but others who have never seen do this. A few calls that the fans hated I thought could have gone either way, but there were also a number that seemed pretty bad. Watkins reminds me of Plum in that way too--it almost seemed as if the officials were pre-primed to call fouls in her favor. Getting 19 free throws is a lot.

Well, on to UCLA. We need to learn from this, but we also could use some amnesia, to absolutely forget this long enough to concentrate on another very good team. I'm told that Betts was not on the bench for the UCLA/Cal game tonight, and that Sontag needs to leave tomorrow for her national olympic team. But UCLA has three excellent guards, and we did not do so well defending one excellent guard tonight.

RE: WBB: Stanford 58 USC 67 - CompSci87 - 02-02-2024

Great post, 81alum.

RE: WBB: Stanford 58 USC 67 - SkiBum80 - 02-02-2024

BillBradley dateline='[url=tel:1706938410' Wrote: 1706938410[/url]']
- Poor shooting, poor defense, poor coaching, and their MVP was on fire. The stars were aligned for the Trojans tonight. We beat them 9 out of 10, even on a neutral court. Not sour grapes, I just think that's true.
- As posted before the game, I was worried about Juju getting too many FT attempts. A few were in the last minute, but 19 is way too many. I was impressed with her floor game and hoops IQ though. She understands spacing so well. She is impressive.
- re: poor coaching...I can't believe Tara let Lepolo guard Juju so much. I just can't believe it. You have to put length on her and make her attack over someone. Force her into Cam and Kiki. She shot over Lepolo time after time after time. She just abused Lepolo, and it wasn't because Telana wasn't in good position or trying hard enough. Physically she can't guard her. I thought Nunu did a really nice job on her and even Ogden and Bosgana's length were a better choice. Or even Cam! Also, why no Harriel in the second half? We couldn't buy a perimeter shot yet our hottest shooter is on the bench?
- Cam played 37 minutes, which is a lot for her. I thought she showed some fatigue throughout. Probably good for her to play that many minutes because we'll need her to do that come tourney time. Although a poor shooting night, she almost had a triple double. Warrior.
- Really rough night for Demetre. Decent defense, but 2 points and 0 boards in 17 minutes. Hitting the top of the backboard on a corner 3? So not like her.

Just noticed while looking at the box score..they shot 32.8% and won.

Many good points
I said before the game I did not relish Coach V having to draw up the game plan to defend JuJu
But I was skeptical as to Lepolo being able to handle it for the same reasons you cited
I actually went into it thinking Bosgana & Ogden the best choices, maybe Harriel too
Realizing that one or more of these would likely foul out guarding her
But yes Lepolo was wildly overmatched both physically and in quickness & made it painful to watch

RE: WBB: Stanford 58 USC 67 - 76lsjumb - 02-02-2024

One team tonight looked like it was coached by the winningest coach of all time; the other looked like it was coached by a rookie.

RE: WBB: Stanford 58 USC 67 - 81alum - 02-02-2024

(02-02-2024, 11:32 PM)SkiBum80 Wrote:
BillBradley dateline='[url=tel:1706938410' Wrote: 1706938410[/url]']
- re: poor coaching...I can't believe Tara let Lepolo guard Juju so much. I just can't believe it. You have to put length on her and make her attack over someone. Force her into Cam and Kiki. She shot over Lepolo time after time after time. She just abused Lepolo, and it wasn't because Telana wasn't in good position or trying hard enough. Physically she can't guard her. I thought Nunu did a really nice job on her and even Ogden and Bosgana's length were a better choice. Or even Cam! Also, why no Harriel in the second half? We couldn't buy a perimeter shot yet our hottest shooter is on the bench?
Many good points
I said before the game I did not relish Coach V having to draw up the game plan to defend JuJu
But I was skeptical as to Lepolo being able to handle it for the same reasons you cited
I actually went into it thinking Bosgana & Ogden the best choices, maybe Harriel too
Realizing that one or more of these would likely foul out guarding her
But yes Lepolo was wildly overmatched both physically and in quickness & made it painful to watch

Bosgana started on Watkins, but did not continue. Lepolo got a lot of minutes, but Ogden and Agara and Clardy also took turns. Ogden got 4 fouls in 9 minutes trying to keep up. At one point Tara sent Iriafen to guard Watkins. I thought that was a great idea, similar to when Chiney defended Maya Moore. But Iriafen immediately picked up her fourth foul and that was that.

Basically, Lepolo was not TVD's first choice to defend Watkins, and TVD also tried every other option she could, and none of them worked. When Lepolo was guarding her she was getting a lot of help rotation. Lepolo did a pretty good job I think of staying in front of Watkins, but the problem was exactly what you said--Watkins is 6'2" and Lepolo is 5'7" and even when Lepolo was closely guarding, Watkins just shot over her. 7" (probably more) is just too much to give up.

This is where a Hull would have helped a great deal, I think. I still think that in the long run, the best defender for Watkins will be Agara. But apparently not tonight.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. USC (Now on Pac-12 Network)) - 76lsjumb - 02-02-2024

TonyLima dateline='[url=tel:1706932677' Wrote: 1706932677[/url]']
*
old spanish trail dateline='[url=tel:1706931923' Wrote: 1706931923[/url]']

martyup dateline='[url=tel:1706931294' Wrote: 1706931294[/url]']
We are tied at 21. Watkins has 19 of USC's 21 points. Ridiculous. Kiki 0. Cam 3.

Watkins is really good. Cam is short on all her shots. Bosgana best game in a while. Jump has her shot so far. Refs aren't letting anybody flop.

Some of us are old enough to remember MWB v Wake Forest and Tim Duncan. Stanford won by swarming Duncan, daring others to score. Perhaps a tip for the second half.

martyup dateline='[url=tel:1706932481' Wrote: 1706932481[/url]']
Halftime and it's tied at 31. This is a brawl. Juju has 25 points and is making everything she throws up, unless Cam blocks it. Cam has 6 blocks, 10 rebounds, and 5 points. She has no fouls, so a triple-double with blocks is very possible.

We have to figure out a way to slow down Juju. She is going to score, but she cannot beat us herself (right?)

SC has some serious foul trouble. Marshall and Davis both have 3 fouls. Juju has 2 and should have more with her flops.

Double or triple team Watkins. Leave Cam and Jump under the boards.

I was at that Wake Forest game, and had a recollection of it tonight as well… except for an entirely different reason. It struck me that Gottlieb’s plan was to absolutely maul Brink (and, to some extent, Kiki) and not care how many fouls were called on their bigs. That was Monty’s strategy against Duncan. It worked then and it worked tonight. Cam didn’t have a horrible night, but she was clearly rendered much less of a force than she generally is.

Too bad Tara didn’t come up with something anywhere near as effective against their star.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. USC (Now on Pac-12 Network)) - TonyLima - 02-02-2024

(02-02-2024, 11:50 PM)76lsjumb Wrote:
TonyLima dateline='[url=tel:1706932677' Wrote: 1706932677[/url]']
*
old spanish trail dateline='[url=tel:1706931923' Wrote: 1706931923[/url]']

martyup dateline='[url=tel:1706931294' Wrote: 1706931294[/url]']
We are tied at 21. Watkins has 19 of USC's 21 points. Ridiculous. Kiki 0. Cam 3.

Watkins is really good. Cam is short on all her shots. Bosgana best game in a while. Jump has her shot so far. Refs aren't letting anybody flop.

Some of us are old enough to remember MWB v Wake Forest and Tim Duncan. Stanford won by swarming Duncan, daring others to score. Perhaps a tip for the second half.

martyup dateline='[url=tel:1706932481' Wrote: 1706932481[/url]']
Halftime and it's tied at 31. This is a brawl. Juju has 25 points and is making everything she throws up, unless Cam blocks it. Cam has 6 blocks, 10 rebounds, and 5 points. She has no fouls, so a triple-double with blocks is very possible.

We have to figure out a way to slow down Juju. She is going to score, but she cannot beat us herself (right?)

SC has some serious foul trouble. Marshall and Davis both have 3 fouls. Juju has 2 and should have more with her flops.

Double or triple team Watkins. Leave Cam and Jump under the boards.

I was at that Wake Forest game, and had a recollection of it tonight as well… except for an entirely different reason. It struck me that Gottlieb’s plan was to absolutely maul Brink (and, to some extent, Kiki) and not care how many fouls were called on their bigs. That was Monty’s strategy against Duncan. It worked then and it worked tonight. Cam didn’t have a horrible night, but she was clearly rendered much less of a force than she generally is.

Too bad Tara didn’t come up with something anywhere near as effective against their star.

Excellent. TYVM.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. USC (Now on Pac-12 Network)) - 81alum - 02-02-2024

(02-02-2024, 11:50 PM)76lsjumb Wrote: I was at that Wake Forest game, and had a recollection of it tonight as well… except for an entirely different reason. It struck me that Gottlieb’s plan was to absolutely maul Brink (and, to some extent, Kiki) and not care how many fouls were called on their bigs. That was Monty’s strategy against Duncan. It worked then and it worked tonight. Cam didn’t have a horrible night, but she was clearly rendered much less of a force than she generally is.

Too bad Tara didn’t come up with something anywhere near as effective against their star.

I thought about that game too. Gottlieb used her 3 bigs including Rayah Marshall like Monty used Tim Young, Pete Van Elswyk, and Mark Madsen. But only Young fouled out of that one, while Gottlieb lost all 3. Tonight was maul-ball at its finest.