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Richard Sherman = classless - Printable Version

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Re: Richard Sherman = classless - CornFed - 01-20-2014

(01-20-2014, 03:43 PM)Hulk01 link Wrote:Cornfed, I am sure that you realize that the city of San Francisco is a useless sample area for feelings about a player who beat the San Francisco 49ers, hates San Francisco's head coach, taunts one of San Francisco players, gave the choke sign to San Francisco's QB and most visible player, and attended a college that is the loathed rivals of graduates of the Bay Area's largest university.  Did you expect to hear one positive comment? 

I was in a bar last night half the continent from Seattle, and the vitriol between the Niners and Hawks fans suggsted Auburn vs. Alabama.  The bar's host was joking with my friend (and a friend of Connor McFadden, btq) that he was going to have to deputize us to break up the fist fights that looked imminent.  Don't know what that is all about but in a rougher area after another round, that place would have gone scary.  There is some serious hate between these teams and their fans--1800 miles from either city.

I heard comments from a half-dozen 30 years old Minneapolitans plus several of my followers in other countries.  It appears that Sherm actually made a lot of new fans, particularly among the guys who listened to his later interviews and not just the whopper with Andrews.

I do not understand the criticism that he made the interview all about him and gave no credit to his team.  He had 30 seconds to answer Andrew;s question which was "take me through that last play."  He said the guy was an idiot to try to beat him and he proved it.  Then he capped that statement with a loud L.O.B., a reference some of these critics must not understand.  L.O.B., as most of you know but these critics do not, means Legion of Boom.  That's the nickname of the Seahawk defense.  That's the team.

And as for the tirades and dubious behavior, are we worse off for John McEnroe and Tiger Woods? 

Re inarticulate:  I saw a tweet and one other comment that said Sherman was inarticulate.  It was the first references that I saw; we had the sound off by then and I missed his comments.  I expected to call up the interview video and see him babbling uncharacteristically.  He wasn't.  Not even close.

Re the bewilderment over the responses to Sherm's comments: These Stanford boards are thick with Niner fans and guys who loathe Pete Carrol.  That has a strong influence.

I love this kid.  Have for six years.  Period and exclamation point.  I couldn't love Richard Sherman more if he'd devoted the time to running over my  ex-wife with his Lexus.

Hulk, apparently you are back there among MY PEOPLE in the great MidWest?  Enjoy the warmth of good people and simple food!

No, I'm not surprised that the blowback was negative based on where I was and who was coming through the door.  They were not, however, all 9er fans and there were a couple of purported SeaHawk fans who were unhappy about The Rant.  I noted that that would be predictable to a great extent.  It was the immediate connection to RS when they saw my Stanford sweatshirt.  Anyone who is thinking it does not connect to Stanford is fooling themselves (not particularly relevant on this thread, but a dodge I've seen elsewhere). 

Also, it is not that I am trying to say that there is universal concurrence that it was "evil"; just that there is a full range of reaction, positive to negative, and that probably about half are outraged or slightly less than outraged.  That's a big chunk of people whose image of Stanford was negatively affected by The Rant.

As to describing RS as inarticulate, nothing in the rant strikes me as inarticulate.  On the contrary, it was fluid and extremely descriptive(!) and I'm certain he struck just the note he was seeking.  Here, in fact, I find the efforts to defend The Rant by comparing RS to Ali to be valid.  Both set very strong examples of effective expression and emotional evocation.  There the comparison ends.  I never sensed hatred coming from Ali.  As an aside, I am struck by the focus on the description of RS as inarticulate possibly containing racist undertones.  Very possibly true in light of how inaccurate such an allegation seems to be.  Nonetheless, is it not ironic that in the recent past people have been accused of racism for using the word "articulate" to describe Barack Obama (except for Joe Biden, who called him "clean" and "articulate").  Maybe racists are getting to be more explicit in their practices.

I've learned a lot about RS from many people that I have come to respect on this board today.  As I said early on, I have not been, and this incident will not make me now, an RS "hater".  My concern is Stanford's standing and insuring that we are accurately perceived.  I believe The Rant will make it overall somewhat more difficult to engender an accurate perception of Stanford for people on the outside.

Finally, I understand the emotional peaks and valleys of people who are still in their first quarter of existence.  Hell, I'm probably late in the third quarter of mine and still struggle to pause and reflect.  Nonetheless, I have learned that, for me, if I embrace negative emotions, thoughts, images and expressions, I tend to undermine any semblance of serenity to which I might otherwise aspire.  My aspirations may not appeal to RS, but I do hope he is not hurting himself with his approach to whatever it is he is seeking.

Re: Richard Sherman = classless - washingtonismoney - 01-20-2014

(01-20-2014, 06:48 PM)CornFed link Wrote:Here, in fact, I find the efforts to defend The Rant by comparing RS to Ali to be valid.  Both set very strong examples of effective expression and emotional evocation.  There the comparison ends.  I never sensed hatred coming from Ali. 

Hate to single out one statement like this, but Ali's history with Joe Frazier is not a proud one. Whether it was born from hate or something else, it was deliberate maliciousness:

Quote:Frazier seems more emotionally damaged, still angry not just at the outcome -- and a manager who did not let him come out for the last round -- but at Ali, who in the process of promoting the fights, mocked and insulted him, called him an Uncle Tom and a gorilla, and said how ugly he was: "Joe Frazier should give his face to the Wildlife Fund! He's so ugly blind men go the other way? He not only looks bad, you can smell him in another country!"

Those wounds remain long after the cuts from the fights have disappeared. Only recently, Ali apologized to him, admitting that some of the things he had said were unacceptable, but the apology apparently has come much too late, and Frazier's bitterness runs far too deep. It is as if the fight has never ended for him, and he refuses to accept the decision of Eddie Futch, his manager, not to let him answer the bell for the last round.

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/halberstam/010815.html



Re: Richard Sherman = classless - CJ90 - 01-20-2014

The gorilla episode was not one of Ali's finer moments.  Pretty brutal . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ37lyT6u8Y



Let me ask it this way... - jacketree - 01-20-2014

Can those of us who want to simply object to his 30-second interview without it being about his greater character, race, Stanford, or society at large?  I listened to it live, thought he sounded like a punk. That's all. A very well spoken and non-profane punk, but a punk nonetheless.  Maybe a bad word choice on my part (and those who agreed), but that's what a punk sounded like on the streets where I grew up, which was admittedly not in Compton. Of course we all project who we are on the behavior of others. I'd never say that in front of Erin Andrews (in fact I'd probably just be slack jawed if I ever met Erin Andrews), ergo.... (not fair in the least)

Does it damage the Stanford "brand"?  Don't know and don't care.  (I'm pretty sure the brand, whatever that is, survived.)

I don't hop around many other boards, but here are some snippets from the GT board. 

"Just curious what your thoughts were, are you a fan of him or is his act un-becoming of a Stanford alum?"

"The postgame interview by Probiotics Chick to Sherman made me LOL."

"That guy does not give a schlitz. He will say anything. Let's see what he does with DT."

"As a long time Falcons fan, I could never, ever, ever pull for the 49ers. Glad the Seahawks won. However, Sherman is a grade A Douche. Can't wait to see Optimus Prime burn his arsein two weeks."

"That little interview made it easy for me to decide who to cheer for in the Super Bowl. I was waiting for Crabtree to pile drive Sherman when he ran up in his face. Reminds me of how much I enjoyed seeing Roddy White torch and taunt Sherman in last years Divisional game."

"When I saw that interview, I wondered where in the world that guy went to college.  He may be a genius, but he certainly did not show it in the interview.  I assumed it had to be some football factory.  Turns out it was Stanford. So...if that is an example of a Stanford football player, maybe it's not as amazing as it appeared that they have been successful despite 'strong academics.' Rightly or wrongly, I'm less impressed with Stanford than before."

"That wasn't an accurate representation of the guy.  Going to Superbowl off a play he made against a heated rival.  The guy needed time to calm down before the interview.  That's an incredibly emotional high.  Either way, 1 guy does something and it becomes the standard for the school?  Hopefully there has never been a negative MOMENT from any GT alum.  riiight..."

"It looks like he's going to try to be the Charles Barkley of football."

"Sherman is quite smart.  Straight A student.  Stanford grad.  5th round underdog.  Some of that is an act.  His personality is GREAT for TV.  Where can find Deion Sanders, Michael Irvin, Terry Bradshaw, Warren Sapp, Howie Long, Ray Lewis, Mike Ditka, Chris Carter, etc.  Oh yeah.  On TV."

"And [now] I do understand how much he hates Crabtree."

"After spending some time reading about the guy, I think it's great."

"I absolutely loved it. If Pete Carrol wasn't coaching the Seahawks, I'd be cheering for them in the Spliff Bowl." (common reference to teams from States that have legalized pot.)

"How did I miss Sherman destroying Skip Bayless?"

"I really like Sherman. He was on FOX NFL Sunday a few weeks ago with Terry/Howie/Mike/Jimmy during a bye week. He was great. Very articulate and funny."

"His taunting of Crabtree?  Douchebag.  This interview with Erin Andrews?  Douchebag.  His interview with Skip Bayless?  Douchebag."

"I have no problem with Sherman talking about what a great game that was, what it means to the team -  and being intense and fired up is fine. But all he did was use the moment to trash another player on the opposing team. That is what was classless."

"Sherman is an articulate, well-spoken guy,...definately not a thug. That said,...he also seems to be a classless jerk. His comments the day after reveal what he's really about. Bringing up the race card,.....give me a break. So he's done good things for his family and community? Good for him, he gets a gold star. The thing is,...character is not something you put on like a suit. It's who you are,....it's your DNA. Same for a football player on the field, the factory worker who gets up at 4:30 every morning to punch the clock, the small business owner doing his best for his family and his employees in these trying times."

"Dude needs to get over himself,.....a big dose of humility would do him some good. Hope Peyton and Bey-Bey break one off in him."

"Like I said.  Yesterday was the best thing to happen to the Sherman brand.  If he makes a play or two against Peyton in a Superbowl win, back up the Brinks truck."

"Miley Cyrus twerking a few months ago was the best thing to happen to her brand too. For those of us who get turned off by seeing people rewarded for behaving like arses, it isn't very entertaining."

"I am amazed at the positive reaction to Sherman's idiocy. In my opinion he is a total dbag. I hate that crap."

"Oh well.  Life goes on.  Hate him and label him if you'd like.  Raw emotion is a welcome sight.  I agree with walton completely.  I guess if Sherman had said... "well, we were lucky to win that game and Michael Crabtree is a great competitor and I have so much respect for the 49ers and I want to thank Buddha for cutting the crusts off my peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and life is just really swell right now"...some people would be OK.  Maybe."

"I have no problem with the raw emotion.  I like that much more than the canned responses you get a lot.  But I thought it was pretty classless to trash your opponents.  I don't care what he thinks of him personally or how much trash Crabtree talks.  Leave him out of it entirely then.  He could have jumped around screaming "I'm the greatest".  I would have loved that.  I like Kevin Garnett's "Anything is possible!" even though that was kind of stupid.  Because it was real emotion." 

"Apparently Sherman is actually articulate and intelligent.  That makes it even worse IMO.  He is promoting that idiotic culture of senseless trash talk, and apparently he is smart enough to know better."

"I think Sherman acted like a Thug, but the way I use the term, it is absolutely not racist.  There are thugs of all races and non-thugs of all races IMO."

"I think all players should emulate Barry Sanders. Is that racist?"



Re: Let me ask it this way... - washingtonismoney - 01-20-2014

(01-20-2014, 07:46 PM)jacketree link Wrote:Can those of us who want to simply object to his 30-second interview without it being about his greater character, race, Stanford, or society at large? 

Oh, yeah, of course. Anytime you have large numbers of people responding to a given event, there are a variety of motives and reasons. It's just that a large chunk of that response strikes me as weird.

Re: Richard Sherman = classless - dabigv13 - 01-20-2014

My facebook has been very active on this topic, so I think it's worth writing a post just to help me get my thoughts on the interview straight.

My opinion about Sherman goes back all the way to the USC games and all the woofing he did (which I loved!)- if he wasn't one of us, I'd most certainly hate him. He has some issue with being "disrespected", which is a theme that I think is far too prevalent in the modern sports world. No matter what his personal history with Crabtree, there was no reason to go seeking him out after the play to mock him. If he's trying to gain respect, I can't think of a worse way to go about it. Sportsmanship should have a role in the game.

And no matter what Sherman says about it today, and I think his opinion piece was very well written, he has too much of a history of being a grade-A douche on the field to overlook. Maybe it's all a show to build up his media presence (if so he's been crafting it since he was still an underclassman in college, so I think that's bogus), still doesn't make it right.

Finally, I think this unquestionably harms Stanford's "brand" to some degree. Certainly a lot of comments to that effect in my little corner of the social media world.

Re: Richard Sherman = classless - oman - 01-20-2014

I think it's good for the brand, but will admit it can be a slippery slope.

By brand I mean a) the brand of football that might appeal to football recruits, and b) the brand that seeks out diverse greatness, even if that greatness is loud and obnoxious.
 

Re: Richard Sherman = classless - Papa John - 01-20-2014

vociferous (adj.) -- expressing feelings or opinions in a very loud or forceful way (Merriam-Webster online)

Yeah, Andrew Luck nailed it.

Re: Richard Sherman = classless - Leftcoast - 01-21-2014

A fellow season ticket holder, who doesn't know I post here, forwarded me the Chron blog as an example of Stanford fan comments on Sherman.  Of course I told him that Leftcoast fellow is right on and that Garvin character was such a Stanford homer!  ;-). 

Dang it, I wanted to be the homer this week.

Re: Richard Sherman = classless - yvonne - 01-21-2014

[Image: 45066513.jpg]

Re: Richard Sherman = classless - Leftcoast - 01-21-2014

Hah !


Well, actually not THAT Homer .

Re: Richard Sherman = classless - Hulk01 - 01-21-2014

Again, I tweeted this yesterday: "If you don't love Richard Sherman, you don't know him."

Last night Jon Haskins texted me and wrote "Agreed."


Day 3 of the Shermanator Saga - Bruce Wang - 01-21-2014

I understand why we're still talking about it.  He is one of us, after all.  But they are still talking about him on Boston sports talk radio and the guy with the biggest ratings in town is in Richard's corner because it was entertaining and genuine.

This will not end anytime soon, folks.  I just read that they mic'd Sherman for sound during the game and it's coming out this week. I can't wait.

Re: Richard Sherman = classless - FarmBoy - 01-21-2014

This article tweeted by the Pac-12 blog (Ted Miller is in Richard's corner) http://www.huffingtonpost.com/isaac-saul/what-richard-sherman-taught-us_b_4631980.html

Quote:But in reality, what Richard Sherman did was teach us about ourselves. He taught us that we're still a country that isn't ready for lower-class Americans from neighborhoods like Compton to succeed. We're still a country that can't decipher a person's character. But most of all, he taught us that no matter what you overcome in your life, we're still a country that can't accept someone if they're a little louder, a little prouder, or a little different from the people we surround ourselves with.

Of course this isn't going away. We've got 2-freaking weeks of air-time to fill be fore the Super Bowl. And you can be the echo chamber will continue after the game. If Richard gets beat badly, you can bet the public will pile on loud and clear.

It will be interesting to hear what comes out of the mic.

Re: Richard Sherman = classless - Leftcoast - 01-21-2014

For most long time Stanford fans our feelings aren't about loving or hating Richard Sherman based upon one instance. We have context that most fans do not.

Personally, I've found him amusing in the past and I'm sure I will do so in the future.  Usually he is fresh air in the NFL's stale self importance.  His New Orleans "interviews " where he grabbed a mic and asked fans on the street what they thought of Richard Sherman were YouTube gold.  He told Skip Bayless what we all wish we could tell him.  He plays with passion and joy that translates to fans watching closely.  So sure, most Stanford fans have the context to keep his poor sportsmanship and taunting in context with the rest of the man.

But we aren 't casual fans.  To the rest of the world Sherman went over the top on Sunday and it was damaging to his reputation on one of the NFL's biggest stages.  In their minds Sherman = Thug and that will be hard to change .  I hope those close to him are telling him the truth - he stepped over a line on Sunday.

From an individual perspective my fandom isn't of the "My country right or wrong" flavor.  I can like Richard Sherman and still think he was an ass on Sunday.  And I do.

Re: Richard Sherman = classless - CowboyIndian - 01-21-2014

(01-21-2014, 12:30 AM)Leftcoast link Wrote:Dang it, I wanted to be the homer this week.

This guy is Homer, too. Does it work for you?

[Image: 1558444_10153724295760511_1011402383_n.jpg]

Re: Richard Sherman = classless - Leftcoast - 01-21-2014

Better!

Re: Richard Sherman = classless - SUBuddha - 01-21-2014

Some interesting thoughts here.

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2014/01/21/the-scary-smart-of-richard-sherman/

Re: Richard Sherman = classless - Stymie - 01-21-2014

I see Richard Sherman on an open post-game mike the same way I saw John McEnroe on centre court at Wimbledon.  Both are/were serious players.  Both were/are close to being the best at their sport, but not clearly the best, in either case.  Both strive(d) to be the best, and in doing so did not suffer fools gladly, whether these fools were myopic line judges or out of their depth TV interviewers.

If every great athlete who attended and competed for Stanford were like some of oor faves (e.g. Andrew) we would be a different place, but not necessarily in a better place.

As Kojak said (or should have said) "Diversity, Baby!"

Re: Richard Sherman = classless - pefloresjr - 01-21-2014

(01-21-2014, 06:48 AM)Hulk01 link Wrote:Again, I tweeted this yesterday: "If you don't love Richard Sherman, you don't know him."

Last night Jon Haskins texted me and wrote "Agreed."

I do love Sherman.  On Sunday night he acted like an obnoxious ass.  I would say I forgive him but he doesn't need my forgiveness and doesn't owe me anything.  I still love Sherman. 

He and others can add diversity to Stanford's image without acting like jerks.  Based on the reactions of my friends and family, mostly not 49er fans, Sherman's rant hurt Stanford's image.  I hope and expect his conduct in interviews over the next two weeks will win some of that back. 

Cheers,
Pete F.