WBB: Stanford 67 North Carolina State 77 season ends

WBB: Stanford 67 North Carolina State 77 season ends - Printable Version

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RE: WBB: Stanford vs. North Carolina State Friday 4:30 - TonyLima - 03-29-2024

(03-29-2024, 06:33 PM)martyup Wrote: A really great season for this team. Sweet 16 was over achieving.

Agree 100%. But this will be my last season following WBB. The NCAA is encouraging what I can only describe as thuggish play. That is not the kind of basketball I want to watch. I will, of course, continue to participate here. Would not miss you folks for anything. But WBB? Over it.

RE: WBB: Stanford 67 North Carolina 77 season ends - Sam Leopold - 03-29-2024

Well, dang. While I have relatively subdued emotional investment in the WBB team, a Final Four return, though perhaps unrealistic, would have been nice.

Last summer a couple of posters voiced the opinion that Muir should start to consider pushing Tara out -- I hope they are rethinking that position.

RE: WBB: Stanford 67 North Carolina 77 season ends - Hoops9092 - 03-29-2024

Really hope we see all the players come back. But now, we, like everyone else, watches the transfer portal. Sometimes you wonder about the freshman who are not from the region, who spent the majority of the season on the bench. Hope they have it in them to stick around and improve for a larger role next year.

(03-29-2024, 07:13 PM)BosCard Wrote:
(03-29-2024, 06:59 PM)qwerty49 Wrote:
(03-29-2024, 06:42 PM)BosCard Wrote: We need better guard play next year. Otherwise we will waste the brilliance of Iriafen with a 22-12 season.

Where is that better guard play going to come from? I had high hopes for Harriel at one point but she seems to have regressed as both a shooter and a ball handler. Bosgana not consistent enough. Ogden and Clardy still have a long way to go and I wonder how much they can improve. Lepolo seems to have lost all confidence in her shot.

We’ve had so many elite post players but we haven’t had a guard who could score off the dribble since Candice Wiggins. We certainly try and recruit those kind of players. We recruited Watkins, Hidalgo, Clark, Bueckers and Ionescu and Plum before them but they never seem to choose us in the end. I wonder if they feel our offense is too structured. And yes I am not optimistic things will change much next year.

Unfortunately it's the same conversation we have every year. You can add Hartley and Rice and others to that list.

Kiana Williams was a great example of how well it worked.

RE: WBB: Stanford 67 North Carolina 77 season ends - BobK - 03-29-2024

Well you do mention several who couldn’t get into Stanford.

RE: WBB: Stanford 67 North Carolina 77 season ends - PVTree - 03-29-2024

Today we saw a lot of the team's shortcomings that had been able to be well hidden for most of the year. We didn't have consistent outside shooters, especially when Jump was blanketed.

Through our own fault with some help from the stripes, Brink and Kiki got in foul trouble which helped stop our offense all game long.

We were unable to stay in front of quick guards, and they drove at will in the second half to turn a 10 point halftime lead to a 10 point loss.

Before the start of the season, I thought this team was a sweet 16 team, anything extra would be gravy. When the brackets came out, I got my hopes up that we could make the FF. Water found its level, and we went as far as I expected.

Next year will be a tough year unless a player or 2 really develops over the summer.

RE: WBB: Stanford 67 North Carolina 77 season ends - BillBradley - 03-29-2024

Our team is built around Cam. She absolutely controls the game. Kiki is incredible, a more reliable shooter as of late and has had some monster games, but Cam is the linchpin and leader of our team. When she's in there, the NC State guards are all tight and timid. Cam contests and alters shots on MOST possessions. 27 points at half while Cam played most every minute. She's a great passer too...when she gets it on the high post, she can either attack, feed Kiki low, or kick it to the wing. All these things happen in a rhythm and with confidence and it's really fun to watch her work. But when she goes to the bench, we just aren't very good. Haven't been all season. We lose energy and confidence. Our guards forget how to play without her in there because they are restricted role players. Right or wrong, it's how Tara has put together the team. Kiki saved the season last game, and Brooke and Lepolo hit some unbelievable 3's, but that's just too much to ask as we face better teams.

I've posted multiple times about how we need, and want, officials to let the players play, especially in tournament/loser-out games. This is what happens when the officials decide to call it tightly. They really don't have to blow the whistle every time someone falls down. Were Cam and Kiki's 9 fouls really fouls? Technically, most of them probably were. But there needs to be some sensibility of administering a fair game and some awareness of the game's situation. Officials need to be aware of the other team's top players and how many fouls they have, plain and simple. Best example - there's really no need to call Cam's 3rd foul, an offensive foul for simply clearing some space before the pass is even thrown. That was a game altering call. EDIT: After this post, I went to ESPN and saw what the refs did to Hidalgo in the ND game. She's allowed to play with her nose ring all season, but for some reason they decide to send her (their best player) to the bench to remove it, taking her off the court for 4 minutes while the trainers figure out to remove it. The nose ring all of a sudden became an issue? Show some freaking judgement and let it go!

In the end, I've really enjoyed watching Cam, Hannah, and the rest of the team play this season. I'll really miss Cam in a Cardinal uniform. She's a one of a kind baller, with a hu_ge upside, and I wouldn't put it by her to become one of the best the game has ever seen.

Go Card.

RE: WBB: Stanford 67 North Carolina 77 season ends - MV72018 - 03-29-2024

The loss in 4 stats:

1. 3-point shots: NC State 7 of 17 (41.2%), Stanford 5 of 25 (20%). Apart from Jump, half of our usual O game was AWOL (2 for 17).

2. free throws: NC State 16 of 19; Stanford 6 of 7 (unbelievably ALL 7 by Kiki!). There's your 10-point final score differential. Stanford's guards rarely even tried to take it to the hoop, possibly earning FTAs. Instead, they launched lots of errant long shots. That persistent pattern cost us.

3. bench scoring: NC State 14 points; Stanford 7 points. We've seen the unproductive-bench script play out throughout the season.

4. personal fouls called on...: NC State 14, Stanford 22. This too was costly. Was it ref bias, lack of discipline, being too amped up, or Cardinal defenders being unable to keep up with James and giving her 11 FTAs, of which she made 10. IMO, the last three factors largely explain the marked disparities in foul calls and foul shots.

Overall, NC State was too fast for Stanford, on both O and D. But had Brink not fouled out, the Cardinal might have had a chance of cutting the 8-point deficit that existed after 3 quarters. Stanford effectively played 4 on 5 when on offense. When Brink fouled out early in Q4, our O was basically Kiki, aided by one trey each from Hannah and Brooke. That's all, literally.

NC State was the deeper team. Its game w/ Texas should be an interesting matchup. Two tough, intense, and quick teams, on both O and D.

RE: WBB: Stanford 67 North Carolina 77 season ends - TheFarm07 - 03-30-2024

Hoops9092 Wrote:
(03-29-2024, 07:13 PM)BosCard Wrote:
(03-29-2024, 06:59 PM)qwerty49 Wrote:
(03-29-2024, 06:42 PM)BosCard Wrote: We need better guard play next year. Otherwise we will waste the brilliance of Iriafen with a 22-12 season.

Where is that better guard play going to come from? I had high hopes for Harriel at one point but she seems to have regressed as both a shooter and a ball handler. Bosgana not consistent enough. Ogden and Clardy still have a long way to go and I wonder how much they can improve. Lepolo seems to have lost all confidence in her shot.

We’ve had so many elite post players but we haven’t had a guard who could score off the dribble since Candice Wiggins. We certainly try and recruit those kind of players. We recruited Watkins, Hidalgo, Clark, Bueckers and Ionescu and Plum before them but they never seem to choose us in the end. I wonder if they feel our offense is too structured. And yes I am not optimistic things will change much next year.

Unfortunately it's the same conversation we have every year. You can add Hartley and Rice and others to that list.

Kiana Williams was a great example of how well it worked.

You don't have to go back to even Ionescu to come up with a long list of guards who we recruited recently that turned us down: Watkins & Hidalgo are obviously the big ones from this year, but Rice, Osborne and Londynn Jones were all on our list as well as Citron and Miles from N.D. Nearly all of them were more consistent offensive threats their freshman season than most of our guards now two to three seasons into their collegiate careers.

We really need to re-examine our recruiting and ask ourselves why the disparity in being able to have a much higher success rate in converting elite posts & forwards who were admitted and had Stanford among our finalists than their guard counterparts?

Kiana Williams was the one major exception recently and you just have to re-watch some of the highlights from our 2021 championship run to see the difference a guard who can create her own shot can do to your offense.

leftcoast - Leftcoast - 03-30-2024

Are we also forgetting Haley Jones?

RE: WBB: Stanford 67 North Carolina 77 season ends - AndyCardinal03 - 03-30-2024

I was a little surprised to see those two halves of basketball played side-by-side last night, but I was not surprised to see this season end the way it did. This team has been capable of these really poor stretches over the last two years, mostly I think (and as others have noted) because of the inconsistent-to-poor quality of the guard play. If our bigs get into foul trouble, or the opposing team has big, quick guards who can deny post entry passes and/or take Hannah away, we can go long stretches with poor offensive sets. And again, Tara seemed to slow to react to the other team's changes when the tide was obviously turning early in the 3rd quarter.

Cam is a brilliant player and she played a phenomenal first half last night: 5 blocks and 0 fouls, completely dominating that end of the floor. She even carried the offensive load for portions of the 2nd quarter, which was the first time we'd seen her jumper fall in a few weeks. But her 3rd quarter last night was especially sad to see after 4 years in the program. It was so reminiscent of her play as an underclassmen, when spotty officiating and physical play could get her frustrated, mentally take her out of her game and then physically force her to sit on the bench and watch her team struggle without her. The whole Cam experience was on display last night, for better or worse. It's sad to see it end in what was kind of a fitting performance.

I thought for the most part that the fouls were fouls and we did it to ourselves in that 3rd quarter. As 81Alum noted at halftime, if NCST got the ball to James more, it was only a matter of time before she was going to get the shots she wanted against our defense. We have no one to stop that kind of player, the quick, savvy guard who can use the pick & roll to get separation from our guards but doesn't need to get to the rim to score, whether it's stepbacks to the 3-point line or pull-ups in the midrange, to negate Cam's rim presence.

I remain baffled by the coaches' allegiance to Talana over the last couple months of the season. I feel bad for her, because she's obviously been hobbled by a knee or lower body injury, but she has been a liability on both ends of the floor for weeks. By the end of the season, she was not only our smallest player but also our slowest player. That hurt us badly in every closely contested game down the stretch--the home loss to Arizona that probably cost us a #1 seed, the USC loss, the ISU win, and then again today. She shot 12-40 (30%) from 3 over the last two months of the season, and as others have noted, she was almost always wide open. Last night's shots weren't even close, and she ended up 0-6 (0-4). What's often overlooked with her game, I think, is that she played over a 1000 minutes this year and had only 14 steals, for someone often guarding the other teams' leading ball handlers! That's an astoundingly poor steal rate, and while I'm not an expert on all the ins and outs of the defensive scheme, I feel like with Cam on the back line the guards should be able to take more chances for steals than the average team. If we don't improve the PG position next year, we're going to struggle to be a tournament-quality team.

I'll miss watching Hannah a bunch. She's been a great member of our team for so long and she always gave as much as she could. I thought the coaches consistently asked her to play too many minutes and we couldn't always count on her down the stretch of big games because of fatigue. But again, some of that is due to the weakness of our other guards and lack of better options. Unfortunately, that won't get better next year unless we get some unexpected portal news.

Overall, I echo what others have said: I got more enjoyment and exciting moments from this team than I could have expected when the season began, and that was especially gratifying after last season's flameout and the portal turmoil that followed. The last links to the title team are graduating and the Pac-12 is dead (for now), so it certainly feels like the end of an era. Hard to know what's ahead, but the program has been so strong for so long that hopefully we can keep adapting and find another form of success over the next few years as Tara winds down her HOF career.

RE: WBB: Stanford 67 North Carolina 77 season ends - JohnR34231 - 03-30-2024

Cam was interviewed at halftime and said she was tired. I was a little apprehensive at that comment. Turned out it was justified.

RE: WBB: Stanford 67 North Carolina 77 season ends - MV72018 - 03-30-2024

(03-30-2024, 06:44 AM)AndyCardinal03 Wrote: I was a little surprised to see those two halves of basketball played side-by-side last night, but I was not surprised to see this season end the way it did. This team has been capable of these really poor stretches over the last two years, mostly I think (and as others have noted) because of the inconsistent-to-poor quality of the guard play. If our bigs get into foul trouble, or the opposing team has big, quick guards who can deny post entry passes and/or take Hannah away, we can go long stretches with poor offensive sets. And again, Tara seemed to slow to react to the other team's changes when the tide was obviously turning early in the 3rd quarter.

Cam is a brilliant player and she played a phenomenal first half last night: 5 blocks and 0 fouls, completely dominating that end of the floor. She even carried the offensive load for portions of the 2nd quarter, which was the first time we'd seen her jumper fall in a few weeks. But her 3rd quarter last night was especially sad to see after 4 years in the program. It was so reminiscent of her play as an underclassmen, when spotty officiating and physical play could get her frustrated, mentally take her out of her game and then physically force her to sit on the bench and watch her team struggle without her. The whole Cam experience was on display last night, for better or worse. It's sad to see it end in what was kind of a fitting performance.

I thought for the most part that the fouls were fouls and we did it to ourselves in that 3rd quarter. As 81Alum noted at halftime, if NCST got the ball to James more, it was only a matter of time before she was going to get the shots she wanted against our defense. We have no one to stop that kind of player, the quick, savvy guard who can use the pick & roll to get separation from our guards but doesn't need to get to the rim to score, whether it's stepbacks to the 3-point line or pull-ups in the midrange, to negate Cam's rim presence.

I remain baffled by the coaches' allegiance to Talana over the last couple months of the season. I feel bad for her, because she's obviously been hobbled by a knee or lower body injury, but she has been a liability on both ends of the floor for weeks. By the end of the season, she was not only our smallest player but also our slowest player. That hurt us badly in every closely contested game down the stretch--the home loss to Arizona that probably cost us a #1 seed, the USC loss, the ISU win, and then again today. She shot 12-40 (30%) from 3 over the last two months of the season, and as others have noted, she was almost always wide open. Last night's shots weren't even close, and she ended up 0-6 (0-4). What's often overlooked with her game, I think, is that she played over a 1000 minutes this year and had only 14 steals, for someone often guarding the other teams' leading ball handlers! That's an astoundingly poor steal rate, and while I'm not an expert on all the ins and outs of the defensive scheme, I feel like with Cam on the back line the guards should be able to take more chances for steals than the average team. If we don't improve the PG position next year, we're going to struggle to be a tournament-quality team.

I'll miss watching Hannah a bunch. She's been a great member of our team for so long and she always gave as much as she could. I thought the coaches consistently asked her to play too many minutes and we couldn't always count on her down the stretch of big games because of fatigue. But again, some of that is due to the weakness of our other guards and lack of better options. Unfortunately, that won't get better next year unless we get some unexpected portal news.

Overall, I echo what others have said: I got more enjoyment and exciting moments from this team than I could have expected when the season began, and that was especially gratifying after last season's flameout and the portal turmoil that followed. The last links to the title team are graduating and the Pac-12 is dead (for now), so it certainly feels like the end of an era. Hard to know what's ahead, but the program has been so strong for so long that hopefully we can keep adapting and find another form of success over the next few years as Tara winds down her HOF career.

Excellent analysis, Andy. Thank you.

RE: WBB: Stanford 67 North Carolina 77 season ends - BobK - 03-30-2024

30-6. Really great season with some great all time Stanford players. But of course a really sad second half and ending
Lepolo now with knee surgery and we know she couldn’t practice recently
While some here may have seen recruits transcripts lol not. Ionescu and Plun are two who did not turn us down.

The season was better than many thought it would be. We should celebrate that. Agree right now it’s hard.

RE: WBB: Stanford 67 North Carolina 77 season ends - gailtate - 03-30-2024

Fact: this team went as far as it possibly could this year. Indeed, it bordered on over-achievement (the exact opposite of the men). Congrats and thanks to all.

RE: WBB: Stanford 67 North Carolina 77 season ends - jonnyss - 03-30-2024

is it possible nc state coaches said at halftime, "brink is killing us; run the ball at her to foul her out of the game?"
if so, they did it well.

RE: WBB: Stanford 67 North Carolina 77 season ends - DaBears17 - 03-30-2024

I said at the beginning of the season in my opinion they were an elite 8 team. With Lepelo needing knee surgury sweet 16 seems about right. From our last championship, we know the margin of error between an elite 8 team and raising a championship banner is very small.

As someone whose daughter has had between 3 and 5 concussions, umpire softball, and have gone through concussion awareness training, I told my wife after the Iowa State game I wouldn’t be shocked if three of their players had concussion symptoms after the game. If that physicality continues, I will start to lose interest in women’s basketball. The beauty of the women’s game is what converted me from a men’s BB fan to a women’s BB fan 28 years ago.

The transfer to the All Coast Conference will keep me interested for a couple years longer. My brother lives 45 minutes from Syracuse and my nieces go to a couple SU games a year. When the schedule comes out, I’ll schedule a trip to visit my brother.

Two of my sisters graduated from Va Tech, so I’m looking forward to those games. I hope you don’t mind if I wear my Hokie T-shirt to that game. Well, maybe under my Stanford jacket.

RE: WBB: Stanford 67 North Carolina 77 season ends - CompSci87 - 03-30-2024

(03-30-2024, 09:04 AM)jonnyss Wrote: is it possible nc state coaches said at halftime, "brink is killing us; run the ball at her to foul her out of the game?"
if so, they did it well.

Very much so. Didn't I see a quote from one of their players to the effect that they felt they could draw fouls on our posts and were trying to?

RE: WBB: Stanford 67 North Carolina 77 season ends - JohnR34231 - 03-30-2024

(03-30-2024, 08:10 AM)BobK Wrote: 30-6. Really great season with some great all time Stanford players. But of course a really sad second half and ending
Lepolo now with knee surgery and we know she couldn’t practice recently
While some here may have seen recruits transcripts lol not. Ionescu and Plun are two who did not turn us down.

The season was better than many thought it would be. We should celebrate that. Agree right now it’s hard.

I guess the key is going into the season with fairly low expectations. When we were ranked in the top five in the polls most of the year mine got elevated. Perhaps they shouldn't have.

RE: WBB: Stanford 67 North Carolina 77 season ends - StanFanFam13 - 03-30-2024

Apologies if I missed this earlier, but does anyone know when the team arrives back in Palo Alto—and if there is a plan for fans to welcome them back? Would love another opportunity to say thank you, especially to Cam and Hannah.

RE: WBB: Stanford 67 North Carolina 77 season ends - qwerty49 - 03-30-2024

This is behind a paywall, but those of you with subscriptions to NYT and/or The Athletic can see. I think it's fair and reasonably thorough.

https://theathletic.com/5378917/2024/03/30/stanford-loss-cameron-brink-guards/

Basically puts the burden of our path back to dominance on better guard play, both offensively (creating shots) and defensively (staying in front of quick opponents). Notes Lepolo's shortcomings but acknowledges her knee difficulties.

"The sources of improvement will have to come internally. While other programs can dip into the transfer portal for key pieces, Stanford’s transfer acceptance rate was 1.8 percent in the fall of 2022. It was 1.7 percent in 2021. The academic requirements of this university don’t allow many students to come in after their freshman year — portal or not.

"Right now, all of the Cardinal guards are one-dimensional. Lepolo can run an offense in the half court but lacks the aggression or footspeed to do much else. Nunu Agara is a physical defender who doesn’t contribute offensively. Demetre takes too few shots for someone who makes 38 percent of her 3-pointers. Unless Jzaniya Harriel and Chloe Clardy take Iriafen-level jumps entering next season, Stanford will face similar issues creating offense against stronger opponents."