WBB: Stanford 67 North Carolina State 77 season ends - Printable Version
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76lsjumb - 76lsjumb - 03-30-2024
qwerty49 dateline='[url=tel:1711828533' Wrote: 1711828533[/url]']
This is behind a paywall, but those of you with subscriptions to NYT and/or The Athletic can see. I think it's fair and reasonably thorough.
https://theathletic.com/5378917/2024/03/30/stanford-loss-cameron-brink-guards/
Basically puts the burden of our path back to dominance on better guard play, both offensively (creating shots) and defensively (staying in front of quick opponents). Notes Lepolo's shortcomings but acknowledges her knee difficulties.
"The sources of improvement will have to come internally. While other programs can dip into the transfer portal for key pieces, Stanford’s transfer acceptance rate was 1.8 percent in the fall of 2022. It was 1.7 percent in 2021. The academic requirements of this university don’t allow many students to come in after their freshman year — portal or not.
"Right now, all of the Cardinal guards are one-dimensional. Lepolo can run an offense in the half court but lacks the aggression or footspeed to do much else. Nunu Agara is a physical defender who doesn’t contribute offensively. Demetre takes too few shots for someone who makes 38 percent of her 3-pointers. Unless Jzaniya Harriel and Chloe Clardy take Iriafen-level jumps entering next season, Stanford will face similar issues creating offense against stronger opponents."
Thanks for posting, although I don’t think I need to pay the NYT to find out that the sun rises in the East…
RE: leftcoast - MV72018 - 03-30-2024
(03-30-2024, 06:15 AM)Leftcoast Wrote: Are we also forgetting Haley Jones?
Haley was not a natural point guard. She was asked/compelled to play out of
position because we didn't have a solid natural PG. Haley was more of a 3 or a 4.
She didn't have a good enough long shot to be a shooting guard.
RE: leftcoast - BosCard - 03-30-2024
(03-30-2024, 01:57 PM)MV72018 Wrote:(03-30-2024, 06:15 AM)Leftcoast Wrote: Are we also forgetting Haley Jones?
Haley was not a natural point guard. She was asked/compelled to play out of
position because we didn't have a solid natural PG. Haley was more of a 3 or a 4.
She didn't have a good enough long shot to be a shooting guard.
Also Jones never really played point guard at Stanford. When she was here, Kiana Williams then Lacie Hull and then Lepolo were the primary point guards on the team. The Jones at point was more of an idea but she lacked the 3-point shot to make it work.
RE: 76lsjumb - qwerty49 - 03-30-2024
(03-30-2024, 01:23 PM)76lsjumb Wrote:qwerty49 dateline='[url=tel:1711828533' Wrote: 1711828533[/url]']
This is behind a paywall, but those of you with subscriptions to NYT and/or The Athletic can see. I think it's fair and reasonably thorough.
https://theathletic.com/5378917/2024/03/30/stanford-loss-cameron-brink-guards/
Basically puts the burden of our path back to dominance on better guard play, both offensively (creating shots) and defensively (staying in front of quick opponents). Notes Lepolo's shortcomings but acknowledges her knee difficulties.
"The sources of improvement will have to come internally. While other programs can dip into the transfer portal for key pieces, Stanford’s transfer acceptance rate was 1.8 percent in the fall of 2022. It was 1.7 percent in 2021. The academic requirements of this university don’t allow many students to come in after their freshman year — portal or not.
"Right now, all of the Cardinal guards are one-dimensional. Lepolo can run an offense in the half court but lacks the aggression or footspeed to do much else. Nunu Agara is a physical defender who doesn’t contribute offensively. Demetre takes too few shots for someone who makes 38 percent of her 3-pointers. Unless Jzaniya Harriel and Chloe Clardy take Iriafen-level jumps entering next season, Stanford will face similar issues creating offense against stronger opponents."
Thanks for posting, although I don’t think I need to pay the NYT to find out that the sun rises in the East…
LOL, yeah, maybe belaboring the obvious for those of us following the team closely. But I don't recall a lot of Stanford WBB coverage from the Athletic and I thought it was interesting that a "different" reporter came to many of the same conclusions.
RE: WBB: Stanford 67 North Carolina 77 season ends - GK3 - 03-30-2024
(03-30-2024, 12:55 PM)qwerty49 Wrote: This is behind a paywall, but those of you with subscriptions to NYT and/or The Athletic can see. I think it's fair and reasonably thorough.
https://theathletic.com/5378917/2024/03/30/stanford-loss-cameron-brink-guards/
Basically puts the burden of our path back to dominance on better guard play, both offensively (creating shots) and defensively (staying in front of quick opponents). Notes Lepolo's shortcomings but acknowledges her knee difficulties.
"The sources of improvement will have to come internally. While other programs can dip into the transfer portal for key pieces, Stanford’s transfer acceptance rate was 1.8 percent in the fall of 2022. It was 1.7 percent in 2021. The academic requirements of this university don’t allow many students to come in after their freshman year — portal or not.
"Right now, all of the Cardinal guards are one-dimensional. Lepolo can run an offense in the half court but lacks the aggression or footspeed to do much else. Nunu Agara is a physical defender who doesn’t contribute offensively. Demetre takes too few shots for someone who makes 38 percent of her 3-pointers. Unless Jzaniya Harriel and Chloe Clardy take Iriafen-level jumps entering next season, Stanford will face similar issues creating offense against stronger opponents."
Very hard to argue with that perspective.
RE: WBB: Stanford 67 North Carolina 77 season ends - BosCard - 03-30-2024
I think our best hope for next year in terms of a dynamic scorer is Ogden. I’m hoping that we never really got to see what she can do because of her injury this year. If it’s Lepolo, Harriel, Bosgana, Demetre passing the ball around the perimeter while defenses suffocate Iriafen then it’s going to be a really really long and painful season.
RE: WBB: Stanford 67 North Carolina 77 season ends - qwerty49 - 03-30-2024
(03-30-2024, 05:05 PM)BosCard Wrote: I think our best hope for next year in terms of a dynamic scorer is Ogden. I’m hoping that we never really got to see what she can do because of her injury this year. If it’s Lepolo, Harriel, Bosgana, Demetre passing the ball around the perimeter while defenses suffocate Iriafen then it’s going to be a really really long and painful season.
Other than her size and some athleticism, I confess I have no clue about Ogden’s offensive capabilities. Handle? First step? Mid-range shot? 3-pt shot? On-court IQ? Maybe it’s because she doesn’t get a lot of PT but nothing really stands out to me. What kind of player was she in HS?
RE: WBB: Stanford 67 North Carolina 77 season ends - BosCard - 03-30-2024
Tara called Ogden “plain and simple a pure and excellent scorer” in the article about the 2023 class. She can handle the ball off a screen and is tall enough to get her midrange jump shot off. She is also quick / athletic enough to drive for a layup and finish. She did both a number of times this year and they looked like good shots she just didn’t make a lot of them. I’m think it was partly the injury and then a loss of confidence near the end of the season when she was primarily used as a post entry passer (which she did pretty well).
RE: WBB: Stanford 67 North Carolina 77 season ends - Canalejas - 03-30-2024
Pssst, you guys. We got the name of our opponent wrong in the title.
RE: WBB: Stanford 67 North Carolina State 77 season ends - 81alum - 03-30-2024
The NYT article is dead wrong about Agara. Agara is an excellent offensive player, particularly around the basket (52% overall shooting) but also with three point shooting at 35%. She just played limited minutes. But she is really not a guard in size and temperament. She seems more like a wing or a stretch four.
Many hopes do rest on Ogden. Her reputation coming out of high school was as an excellent jump shooter. Early in the season I saw her drain a dozen threes during practice without a miss--without even scraping the rim. But her fabulous stroke and accuracy has not shown up so much in games. She also seems to get a little wild when driving to the basket. Her defense seems to have come along this year but has further to go. I think she needs more confidence, which may come from more playing time and an off season of weight training etc.
Clardy could also be terrific if she takes 1000 jumpshots a day from now to November. She has great body control and can certainly take it to the basket--she is the slasher you all want to see. Problem is that she has not shown much of a jump shot at all this year.
It might be a bit much to hope that all three make gigantic freshmen to sophomore improvements, but probably at least one will.
Then we have the three freshmen coming in. It is the lowest ranked class in quite some time, but Tara quite often finds some gems in the rough, as with Lili Thompson. A plausible case could be made that any of these three could have a big impact.
Shay Ijiwoye is a "true point guard" according to Tara, at only 5'6". We have to see if she can shoot the ball better than the alternatives.
Harper Peterson, a 6'3" forward, has an excellent three point shot and was described by Tara as a stretch 4. She could challenge Demetre.
Kennedy Umeh, a 6'4" center, is a "throwback post player" according to Tara, a true center with back-to-the-basket moves. No one is going to replace Brink, but Umeh is at a minimum going to give us defensive presence. She might free up Iriafen to continue playing the 4 more and the 5 less.
If I keep the rose colored glasses on for a bit longer, Lepolo could come back stronger and better after knee surgery, and Harriel might use the off season to improve too, though she has been around for long enough that I suspect we have seen close to her best. Fabulous three point shooter, but she has not shown the inclination to drive in traffic. Demetre did not take many shots because (I suspect) she thought she had to get it in to Brink and Iriafen first, and so almost her only shots were at the end of the clock. She has shown much more ability than was apparent at times late in the season. She can shoot over anyone of equal height or less, given her release, even if she is guarded. But despite that incredible release she doesn't seem to take advantage of it and passes rather than shoots when "covered." She could improve a lot just with a change in mindset--a healthy dose of aggression.
Not all those optimistic things will happen, but it is likely that a couple of them will. Many, many times in the past, however, I have bemoaned our chances in the following year only for Tara to surprise me. This was one of those years--we did overachieve after the catastrophes at the end of last season.
The year after Chiney graduated (2014-15) looked to be bleak too, and we did lose 10 games that year. But we won the Pac 12 tournament and got to the sweet 16. Tara ditched the triangle and installed a guard oriented offense to feature Lili Thompson and Amber Orrange. But we lost a lot of games while the team jelled. Still, not a bad result under the circumstances.
On the other hand, Chiney's senior year (2013-14) might be similar to Iriafen's senior year. Just as Iriafen will be the focus of everyone's attention, so was Chiney. It was a pretty one dimensional team, which Tara once called "Chiney and the Chinettes" meaning that we needed more than just Chiney. But we were 33-4 and made it to the final four. Amber Orrange was still not much of a three point threat (and oh how this board critiqued her), Sara James and Toni Kokenis were both physically hobbled, and we had the Samuelsons, although Karlie was a freshman and sometimes played like it. Somehow that team came together.
RE: WBB: Stanford 67 North Carolina State 77 season ends - GK3 - 03-31-2024
(03-30-2024, 11:20 PM)81alum Wrote: The NYT article is dead wrong about Agara. Agara is an excellent offensive player, particularly around the basket (52% overall shooting) but also with three point shooting at 35%. She just played limited minutes. But she is really not a guard in size and temperament. She seems more like a wing or a stretch four.
Many hopes do rest on Ogden. Her reputation coming out of high school was as an excellent jump shooter. Early in the season I saw her drain a dozen threes during practice without a miss--without even scraping the rim. But her fabulous stroke and accuracy has not shown up so much in games. She also seems to get a little wild when driving to the basket. Her defense seems to have come along this year but has further to go. I think she needs more confidence, which may come from more playing time and an off season of weight training etc.
Clardy could also be terrific if she takes 1000 jumpshots a day from now to November. She has great body control and can certainly take it to the basket--she is the slasher you all want to see. Problem is that she has not shown much of a jump shot at all this year.
It might be a bit much to hope that all three make gigantic freshmen to sophomore improvements, but probably at least one will.
Then we have the three freshmen coming in. It is the lowest ranked class in quite some time, but Tara quite often finds some gems in the rough, as with Lili Thompson. A plausible case could be made that any of these three could have a big impact.
Shay Ijiwoye is a "true point guard" according to Tara, at only 5'6". We have to see if she can shoot the ball better than the alternatives.
Harper Peterson, a 6'3" forward, has an excellent three point shot and was described by Tara as a stretch 4. She could challenge Demetre.
Kennedy Umeh, a 6'4" center, is a "throwback post player" according to Tara, a true center with back-to-the-basket moves. No one is going to replace Brink, but Umeh is at a minimum going to give us defensive presence. She might free up Iriafen to continue playing the 4 more and the 5 less.
If I keep the rose colored glasses on for a bit longer, Lepolo could come back stronger and better after knee surgery, and Harriel might use the off season to improve too, though she has been around for long enough that I suspect we have seen close to her best. Fabulous three point shooter, but she has not shown the inclination to drive in traffic. Demetre did not take many shots because (I suspect) she thought she had to get it in to Brink and Iriafen first, and so almost her only shots were at the end of the clock. She has shown much more ability than was apparent at times late in the season. She can shoot over anyone of equal height or less, given her release, even if she is guarded. But despite that incredible release she doesn't seem to take advantage of it and passes rather than shoots when "covered." She could improve a lot just with a change in mindset--a healthy dose of aggression.
Not all those optimistic things will happen, but it is likely that a couple of them will. Many, many times in the past, however, I have bemoaned our chances in the following year only for Tara to surprise me. This was one of those years--we did overachieve after the catastrophes at the end of last season.
The year after Chiney graduated (2014-15) looked to be bleak too, and we did lose 10 games that year. But we won the Pac 12 tournament and got to the sweet 16. Tara ditched the triangle and installed a guard oriented offense to feature Lili Thompson and Amber Orrange. But we lost a lot of games while the team jelled. Still, not a bad result under the circumstances.
On the other hand, Chiney's senior year (2013-14) might be similar to Iriafen's senior year. Just as Iriafen will be the focus of everyone's attention, so was Chiney. It was a pretty one dimensional team, which Tara once called "Chiney and the Chinettes" meaning that we needed more than just Chiney. But we were 33-4 and made it to the final four. Amber Orrange was still not much of a three point threat (and oh how this board critiqued her), Sara James and Toni Kokenis were both physically hobbled, and we had the Samuelsons, although Karlie was a freshman and sometimes played like it. Somehow that team came together.
Keep wearing those rose colored glasses, I hope your are more correct than my view point. We just can't end up with guard play that simply allows good teams to play off our guards, and make things very tough on our bigs, or simply be unable to defend faster players who then simply take the ball at our bigs and force a foul. The Brink block machine will not be there.
The women's game has evolved significantly, more contact, quicker players who basically have all the moves their male counter parts do. I don't think Tara like the full contact nature of basketball today, but it is what it is.
RE: WBB: Stanford 67 North Carolina State 77 season ends - TonyLima - 03-31-2024
Update: this may be relevant. NCAA should be ashamed.
RE: WBB: Stanford 67 North Carolina State 77 season ends - crackpot - 03-31-2024
If you saw the post-game presser, Tara challenged everybody not named Kiki to make the same improvements Kiki made in the off-season. I found it so compelling that I'm thinking I have to make leaps-and-bounds improvements in the off-season!
RE: WBB: Stanford 67 North Carolina State 77 season ends - TonyLima - 03-31-2024
(03-31-2024, 08:47 AM)GK3 Wrote: Keep wearing those rose colored glasses, I hope your are more correct than my view point. We just can't end up with guard play that simply allows good teams to play off our guards, and make things very tough on our bigs, or simply be unable to defend faster players who then simply take the ball at our bigs and force a foul. The Brink block machine will not be there.
The women's game has evolved significantly, more contact, quicker players who basically have all the moves their male counter parts do. I don't think Tara like the full contact nature of basketball today, but it is what it is.
I'm 100% with Tara. Besides the obvious differences, I can choose not to watch WBB turn into a complete travesty.
RE: WBB: Stanford 67 North Carolina State 77 season ends - BobK - 03-31-2024
Texas same problem we had. Hmmm
76lsjumb - 76lsjumb - 03-31-2024
(03-31-2024, 03:25 PM)crackpot Wrote: If you saw the post-game presser, Tara challenged everybody not named Kiki to make the same improvements Kiki made in the off-season. I found it so compelling that I'm thinking I have to make leaps-and-bounds improvements in the off-season!
Did she say why the coaches didn’t lay down that challenge to everyone after LAST season (or, if they did, why apparently Kiki was the only one to get the memo…)?
(03-31-2024, 02:40 PM)TonyLima Wrote: Update: this may be relevant. NCAA should be ashamed.
This is, of course, a problem that Caitlin Clark never would have noticed, since she only pays attention to the logo… :-)
RE: WBB: Stanford 67 North Carolina State 77 season ends - 81alum - 03-31-2024
(03-31-2024, 03:25 PM)crackpot Wrote: If you saw the post-game presser, Tara challenged everybody not named Kiki to make the same improvements Kiki made in the off-season. I found it so compelling that I'm thinking I have to make leaps-and-bounds improvements in the off-season!
Presser:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oyv2sAm6Ceo&t=1713s
RE: 76lsjumb - crackpot - 03-31-2024
(03-31-2024, 04:55 PM)76lsjumb Wrote:(03-31-2024, 03:25 PM)crackpot Wrote: If you saw the post-game presser, Tara challenged everybody not named Kiki to make the same improvements Kiki made in the off-season. I found it so compelling that I'm thinking I have to make leaps-and-bounds improvements in the off-season!
Did she say why the coaches didn’t lay down that challenge to everyone after LAST season (or, if they did, why apparently Kiki was the only one to get the memo…)?
She did not. But I would think seeing the progress Kiki made in six months really shows what can be done.
RE: WBB: Stanford 67 North Carolina State 77 season ends - BillBradley - 03-31-2024
(03-31-2024, 04:43 PM)BobK Wrote: Texas same problem we had. HmmmTexas had their 6' 4" DPOY get 5 fouls called on her in 7 minutes in the second half after destroying their opponent in the first half?
(Sorry, still not over it.)
RE: WBB: Stanford 67 North Carolina State 77 season ends - triangle2 - 03-31-2024
Marissa Ingemi at the Chronicle is reporting that one side of the court at Moda had the 'old' three point line of 20 feet, 9.5 inches, and the other side was the regular distance of 22 feet, 1.75 inches. Guess which side NC State got in the 2nd half when they were 5 for 10 for 3's.
https://www.sfchronicle.com/sports/college/article/impact-divergent-3-point-distances-portland-19378182.php?utm_source=marketing&utm_medium=copy-url-link&utm_campaign=article-share&hash=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuc2ZjaHJvbmljbGUuY29tL3Nwb3J0cy9jb2xsZWdlL2FydGljbGUvaW1wYWN0LWRpdmVyZ2VudC0zLXBvaW50LWRpc3RhbmNlcy1wb3J0bGFuZC0xOTM3ODE4Mi5waHA%3D&time=MTcxMTk0NjY3MjI4MQ%3D%3D&rid=ZjMxZTQ3MjUtNmViMC00ZWEwLWFkYmEtMGJiMDAxOWIzYTRh&sharecount=MA%3D%3D
This link should be paywall free.