The CardBoard
Where would Shaw be right now if... - Printable Version

+- The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board)
+-- Forum: C-House! (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: Where would Shaw be right now if... (/thread-20822.html)


Where would Shaw be right now if... - gailtate - 11-08-2020

...in 2011 he had inherited the talent Walt Harris's '07 team or one Jack Elway handed off to Denny Green? In other words, what he is coaching today? This question, of course, answers itself. And it's why Stanford Football's future is in such doubt with him at the helm. He can no longer attract the horses he needs (see "Oregon") and he shows little ability to field-manage the talent he's coaching.
Enjoy!

RE: Where would Shaw be right now if... - CowboyIndian - 11-08-2020

(11-08-2020, 08:36 AM)gailtate Wrote:  ...in 2011 he had inherited the talent Walt Harris's '07 team or one Jack Elway handed off to Denny Green? In other words, what he is coaching today? This question, of course, answers itself.

Of course it doesn't! It's all supposition and any answer to it just reflects one's prejudices. Yours are becoming obvious and repetitive.

RE: Where would Shaw be right now if... - gailtate - 11-08-2020

(11-08-2020, 11:00 AM)CowboyIndian Wrote:  
(11-08-2020, 08:36 AM)gailtate Wrote:  ...in 2011 he had inherited the talent Walt Harris's '07 team or one Jack Elway handed off to Denny Green? In other words, what he is coaching today? This question, of course, answers itself.

Of course it doesn't! It's all supposition and any answer to it just reflects one's prejudices. Yours are becoming obvious and repetitive.

Kinda like Shaw, you mean?

RE: Where would Shaw be right now if... - JohnR34231 - 11-08-2020

(11-08-2020, 11:58 AM)gailtate Wrote:  
(11-08-2020, 11:00 AM)CowboyIndian Wrote:  
(11-08-2020, 08:36 AM)gailtate Wrote:  ...in 2011 he had inherited the talent Walt Harris's '07 team or one Jack Elway handed off to Denny Green? In other words, what he is coaching today? This question, of course, answers itself.

Of course it doesn't! It's all supposition and any answer to it just reflects one's prejudices. Yours are becoming obvious and repetitive.

Kinda like Shaw, you mean?

Yeah, it is a little like the pot calling the kettle black.

RE: Where would Shaw be right now if... - JustAnotherFan - 11-08-2020

(11-08-2020, 11:58 AM)gailtate Wrote:  
(11-08-2020, 11:00 AM)CowboyIndian Wrote:  
(11-08-2020, 08:36 AM)gailtate Wrote:  ...in 2011 he had inherited the talent Walt Harris's '07 team or one Jack Elway handed off to Denny Green? In other words, what he is coaching today? This question, of course, answers itself.

Of course it doesn't! It's all supposition and any answer to it just reflects one's prejudices. Yours are becoming obvious and repetitive.

Kinda like Shaw, you mean?

I'm not even going to comment on the discussion at hand. I just wanted to share my appreciation for an excellent comeback. ****

RE: Where would Shaw be right now if... - Brickcity - 11-08-2020

(11-08-2020, 12:42 PM)JustAnotherFan Wrote:  
(11-08-2020, 11:58 AM)gailtate Wrote:  
(11-08-2020, 11:00 AM)CowboyIndian Wrote:  
(11-08-2020, 08:36 AM)gailtate Wrote:  ...in 2011 he had inherited the talent Walt Harris's '07 team or one Jack Elway handed off to Denny Green? In other words, what he is coaching today? This question, of course, answers itself.

Of course it doesn't! It's all supposition and any answer to it just reflects one's prejudices. Yours are becoming obvious and repetitive.

Kinda like Shaw, you mean?

I'm not even going to comment on the discussion at hand. I just wanted to share my appreciation for an excellent comeback. ****

I'll bite. Let's just say that had Shaw taken over as head coach in 2007 - vs. Harbaugh - there's no evidence to suggest that he would haver turned around the program. A nice person to be sure. But, a lackluster recruiter with a poor offensive mind.

RE: Where would Shaw be right now if... - JustAnotherFan - 11-08-2020

(11-08-2020, 01:20 PM)Brickcity Wrote:  
(11-08-2020, 12:42 PM)JustAnotherFan Wrote:  
(11-08-2020, 11:58 AM)gailtate Wrote:  
(11-08-2020, 11:00 AM)CowboyIndian Wrote:  
(11-08-2020, 08:36 AM)gailtate Wrote:  ...in 2011 he had inherited the talent Walt Harris's '07 team or one Jack Elway handed off to Denny Green? In other words, what he is coaching today? This question, of course, answers itself.

Of course it doesn't! It's all supposition and any answer to it just reflects one's prejudices. Yours are becoming obvious and repetitive.

Kinda like Shaw, you mean?

I'm not even going to comment on the discussion at hand. I just wanted to share my appreciation for an excellent comeback. ****

I'll bite. Let's just say that had Shaw taken over as head coach in 2007 - vs. Harbaugh - there's no evidence to suggest that he would haver turned around the program. A nice person to be sure. But, a lackluster recruiter with a poor offensive mind.

Seems like you agree with the OP. I agree, as well. Shaw might do better in the Ivy League.

RE: Where would Shaw be right now if... - Brickcity - 11-08-2020

(11-08-2020, 03:54 PM)JustAnotherFan Wrote:  
(11-08-2020, 01:20 PM)Brickcity Wrote:  
(11-08-2020, 12:42 PM)JustAnotherFan Wrote:  
(11-08-2020, 11:58 AM)gailtate Wrote:  
(11-08-2020, 11:00 AM)CowboyIndian Wrote:  Of course it doesn't! It's all supposition and any answer to it just reflects one's prejudices. Yours are becoming obvious and repetitive.

Kinda like Shaw, you mean?

I'm not even going to comment on the discussion at hand. I just wanted to share my appreciation for an excellent comeback. ****

I'll bite. Let's just say that had Shaw taken over as head coach in 2007 - vs. Harbaugh - there's no evidence to suggest that he would haver turned around the program. A nice person to be sure. But, a lackluster recruiter with a poor offensive mind.

Seems like you agree with the OP. I agree, as well. Shaw might do better in the Ivy League.

Yep, Shaw would be much better suited to the Ivy League. He's a good person by all accounts but he's a decidedly average head coach. And, that might be a charitable description. Recruiting IS the lifeblood of one's program...and it's clear he's just an ok recruiter. And, as for game-planning and in-game coaching, he's clearly well below average.

RE: Where would Shaw be right now if... - Papa John - 11-08-2020

OK, I'll bite, too. I have no idea how Shaw would have done in 2007. He did recruit Andrew Luck as Harbaugh's assistant. In fact, here's the national and conference ranking for Stanford's recruiting since 2000 per 247sports.

2000-2001, Ty Willingham
#11 national, #1 Pac-10
#14, #2

2002-2004, Buddy Teevens
#32, #5
#26, #5
#60, #10

2005-2006, Walt Harris
#24, #5
#63, #10

2007-2010, Jim Harbaugh
#51, #7
#47, #8
#21, #3
#25, #6

2011-present, David Shaw (Pac-12)
#22, #4
#7, #1
#52, #11
#13, #2
#24, #5
#16, #3
#14, #2
#40, #7
#19, #3
#21, #3

Some of those poorer rankings are due to comparatively small class sizes. Having said that, there are 65 power five teams plus UND. So an average recruiting class would rank somewhere in the low 30s. I would consider elite to be top 10, very good to be 11-20, good to be 21-30. Shaw's recruiting classes are, for the most part, good to very good, and that's not acknowledging certain disadvantages (and advantages) that one has in trying to get recruits to commit to Stanford. The 2021 recruiting class may well be the poorest of Shaw's era, and that's a bad sign, but he's more than earned the right to turn it around in 2022.

As for Shaw's game-planning and in-game coaching, I doubt he's well below average, which would make him the 50th best game-planner and in-game coach in the power five.

Let me put it another way, if you could swap David Shaw with a current Pac-12 head coach, who would it be? Whittingham at Utah? Edwards at ASU? Yeah, maybe one of those two. Wilcox at Cal? In three years as HC, he has yet to produce a winning conference record. Cristobal? Helton? Kelly? They're at big-time programs and have experienced success, but do you think they would thrive under Stanford's recruiting rubrics? Nothing against the others--Dorrell, Rolovich, Sumlin, Lake, Smith--but they haven't produced anything close to Shaw's resume.

At some point, the argument needs to evolve beyond "Shaw stinks at everything." Tell me who--besides Harbaugh, who's not coming back!--would consider a coaching offer at Stanford and would do a better job than Shaw?

RE: Where would Shaw be right now if... - fullmetal - 11-08-2020

Stanford's unique -- I don't think anyone's got positive WAR over Shaw when you factor everything in, but it doesn't make Shaw immune from accountability or room for improvement.  Shaw answers to boosters and Muir though, so we'll see if the team looks better next week.  Hopefully we can get Reid and Kelly back at positions Oregon exploited.

I do think it was injuries that wrecked Stanford this weekend (and I'm counting covid in that mix).  And as far as whether Shaw can manage the talent he's coaching...he did 90% of everything right.  Too bad the last 10% counts as well.  (Find a way to score from 1st and goal.  Don't kick FGs when down three scores with not much time left in the game.  Etc.)

RE: Where would Shaw be right now if... - PVTree - 11-09-2020

(11-08-2020, 12:42 PM)JustAnotherFan Wrote:  
(11-08-2020, 11:58 AM)gailtate Wrote:  
(11-08-2020, 11:00 AM)CowboyIndian Wrote:  
(11-08-2020, 08:36 AM)gailtate Wrote:  ...in 2011 he had inherited the talent Walt Harris's '07 team or one Jack Elway handed off to Denny Green? In other words, what he is coaching today? This question, of course, answers itself.

Of course it doesn't! It's all supposition and any answer to it just reflects one's prejudices. Yours are becoming obvious and repetitive.

Kinda like Shaw, you mean?

I'm not even going to comment on the discussion at hand. I just wanted to share my appreciation for an excellent comeback. ****

++Agree on the excellent comeback. It was a Bazinga!

lex24 - lex24 - 11-09-2020

What an absurd post and topic.

RE: Where would Shaw be right now if... - Phogge - 11-09-2020

Don’t sweat it Bob. The whole year has been bizarre. But I think that people get stale in their occupations and Shaw is no exception.

RE: lex24 - JohnR34231 - 11-09-2020

(11-09-2020, 08:47 AM)lex24 Wrote:  What an absurd post and topic.

It is sort of the "Shaw sucks" post of the day/week/whatever. 
They are all more or less the same.

RE: Where would Shaw be right now if... - BostonCard - 11-09-2020

People need an outlet to vent; boards like this provide such an outlet.

BC