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MBB: overachieving welcome - JJJ - 10-04-2022
[tweet]https://twitter.com/stanfordmbb/status/1577346723201941504?s=21&t=sOJQQ_DT_dvTARCluWARYg[/tweet]
RE: MBB: overachieving welcome - BostonCard - 10-04-2022
I’ll settle with not underachieving, which has been the story of the team going back over a decade.
BC
RE: MBB: overachieving welcome - BobK - 10-05-2022
Anyone going to the open practice? Saturday 4:30
RE: MBB: overachieving welcome - msqueri - 10-05-2022
Only one thing I'll settle for: dancing. This season has to be a clear-cut "if you make the tournament congratulations and you've saved your job and if you don't please pack up your things." The time for nuanced evaluation was the last many years of excuses. Time to shit or get off the pot.
RE: MBB: overachieving welcome - BostonCard - 10-05-2022
Agreed, but we’re now on year four of ”this is the year, or else…”, which is why I think Shaw’s job is very safe.
I really wish I knew why Haase has had such trouble. He’s a good recruited. Every year, his teams have a couple of guys who you think might be legit pac-12 stars. He seems like a good guy; his players play hard. And yet every year, the whole seems less than the sum of its parts.
BC
RE: MBB: overachieving welcome - BobK - 10-05-2022
We Dance once every 14 years now. What’s the hurry
A good recruiter ? Maybe
RE: MBB: overachieving welcome - msqueri - 10-05-2022
(10-05-2022, 07:49 AM)BostonCard Wrote: Agreed, but we’re now on year four of ”this is the year, or else…”, which is why I think Shaw’s job is very safe.
I really wish I knew why Haase has had such trouble. He’s a good recruited. Every year, his teams have a couple of guys who you think might be legit pac-12 stars. He seems like a good guy; his players play hard. And yet every year, the whole seems less than the sum of its parts.
BC
I think the main problems are retention and inability to coach offense. Both have been big failures. I also don't think he's that good of a recruiter. He's invested a lot in high-end prospects, which he's done great with, but if Ingram leaves after next year it will be yet another of those who don't stay very long. Otherwise, his recruiting has been mediocre (e.g., if you look at his median recruits compared to past Stanford coaches' median recruits).
Travis, Okpala, Terry, Williams, da Silva, Davis, Wills, White, and Ryan departures + bad offense + mediocre roster building outside the stars who leave eligibility on the table anyway = performance you and I view as the sum being less than the whole of the parts.
Ingram coming back was really nice wind in our sails. We haven't gotten that kind of break in recent years with the NBA decisions of Okpala, Terry, and Williams or the transfer decision of Travis or the maddening inability of a Stanford graduate program to accept da Silva. This is the first season where I genuinely have some optimism. Some. I don't really have any faith in this coaching staff and my guess is we fall short of the tournament. But I can see a path for us.
Mixed views on how much to link the Shaw and Haase fortunes/tea leaves. Which one deserved to be fired first is a judgment call. I have felt both and Muir should go for a while now. But that's part of the problem - the top three men in the athletic department have all been failing, which makes it more difficult to know where to start. It's even possible they've all benefited from that situation and the attendant lack of any one thing being the glaring wart. My view was that while basketball didn't fall to the depths of football Haase also had less goodwill and less of an ability to point to highs he's capable of, so I would have fired him first. But I respect those who think football has been worse and would start there. Football is also a more important sport and an easier sport for us to compete in given the respective landscapes for the two sports, so there's real logic in holding football to a higher standard. In any case, firing either Shaw or Haase has had a weird quality to it because Muir is the one with NO claim to being able to retain his job.
It feels like we're in limbo as an athletic department while we wait to see where the see-saw ends up between competing in major sports or receding. I wouldn't be shocked if Muir gets fired soon and we bring in a new AD to usher us into big tv contract/major conference land, if we decide to quiet quit from the rat race and view Muir/Shaw/Haase as perfect figureheads for the dignified retreat, if some combination of AD/football coach/conference next steps get announced in tandem, if Shaw and Haase stay on as long as possible, or if Shaw gracefully walks away independent of all of this. But the longer none of it happens we're going to feel stuck in the mud while the world passes us by.
RE: MBB: overachieving welcome - winflop - 10-05-2022
(10-05-2022, 07:41 AM)msqueri Wrote: Only one thing I'll settle for: dancing. This season has to be a clear-cut "if you make the tournament congratulations and you've saved your job and if you don't please pack up your things." The time for nuanced evaluation was the last many years of excuses. Time to shit or get off the pot.
THIS x 1 bazillion
RE: MBB: overachieving welcome - MV72018 - 10-05-2022
Someone in Stanford Men's Basketball PR department has a real sense of humor.
Give me a break!
Has Jerod Haase ever done anything but underachieve with his team? Failure to reach the Big Dance of 64 every year answers that question.
RE: MBB: overachieving welcome - Brickcity - 10-05-2022
(10-05-2022, 11:34 AM)winflop Wrote:(10-05-2022, 07:41 AM)msqueri Wrote: Only one thing I'll settle for: dancing. This season has to be a clear-cut "if you make the tournament congratulations and you've saved your job and if you don't please pack up your things." The time for nuanced evaluation was the last many years of excuses. Time to shit or get off the pot.
THIS x 1 bazillion
For my money, there are a number of things that Haase teams could be doing better e.g. shooting from the field, free throw line, turning over the ball less, etc. That said, Tyrell Terry sure seemed to lessen many of these problems. It was the one year in Haase's tenure where the offense actually looked pretty good and the team was fun to watch. It's amazing what a great point guard can do for a program.
Of course, Haase is responsible for bringing in the right talent so my point in no way is meant to absolve the guy - what is clear to me is that lacking at that one position for most of the past decade has been an absolute killer.
RE: MBB: overachieving welcome - Treebound - 10-06-2022
This is the year - No Excuses! The last decade has been a brobdingnagian hoops disappointment. This team should be in the Dance and if not, then it's past time to find a new coach that can get us there. Monty showed everyone that it could be done well at Stanford, and then Harbaugh did the same for football. We need to start working our way back to that level of achievement.
RE: MBB: overachieving welcome - gailtate - 10-06-2022
(10-06-2022, 10:00 AM)Treebound Wrote: This is the year - No Excuses! The last decade has been a of immense proportions hoops disappointment. This team should be in the Dance and if not, then it's past time to find a new coach that can get us there. Monty showed everyone that it could be done well at Stanford, and then Harbaugh did the same for football. We need to start working our way back to that level of achievement.
If Stanford had a tough-minded, hard-nosed mover-and-shaker for an A.D. and not a conflict-averse, budget-blundering milquetoast educrat, Jerrod Haase would be long-gone today and Stanford hoops might be headed towards something exciting right about now (for a change).
Of course, some of us will be lamenting the same thing about football a year from now if said milquetoast reverts to character this coming winter. That is, if he's not already caved for another extension.
RE: MBB: overachieving welcome - Spiny_Norman - 10-06-2022
(10-06-2022, 12:37 PM)gailtate Wrote: If Stanford had a tough-minded, hard-nosed mover-and-shaker for an A.D. and not a conflict-averse, budget-blundering milquetoast educrat, Jerrod Haase would be long-gone today and Stanford hoops might be headed towards something exciting right about now (for a change).
What hoops program(s) do you see out there that you like?
RE: MBB: overachieving welcome - BostonCard - 10-06-2022
Maybe because I was at Stanford in the mid-90’s, I don’t seem to recall Monthomery’s teams being chock full of great recruits. I think it was only when the Collins twins were recruited that Montgomery’a recruiting was clearly better than Haase’s. Hell, Brevin Knight famously had only one other D1 offer.
What they had was a team that played like a team.
BC
RE: MBB: overachieving welcome - Softball Fan - 10-06-2022
I haven't been following MBB since the Lopez twins. Last year Fitzmorris was listed as a redshirt junior. This year he is not on the roster. Did Fitzmorris graduate and move on.
I always had the feeling he was recruited based on his older sister's reputation who was a star WVB player.
RE: MBB: overachieving welcome - BobK - 10-06-2022
Fitzmorris was a pretty good HS recruit. Never healthy and never developed
Monty recruited very well. Until Malmat made it much harder
RE: MBB: overachieving welcome - gailtate - 10-06-2022
(10-06-2022, 01:55 PM)Spiny_Norman Wrote: [quote="gailtate" pid='365205' dateline='1665085053']
If Stanford had a tough-minded, hard-nosed mover-and-shaker for an A.D. and not a conflict-averse, budget-blundering milquetoast educrat, Jerrod Haase would be long-gone today and Stanford hoops might be headed towards something exciting right about now (for a change).
What hoops program(s) do you see out there that you like?
Pac12, I like UCLA this year.
Year in and year out, hard to not love Gonzaga, although they pay a price in March having had steady diet of cupcakes.
Nationally, UNC is loaded.
RE: MBB: overachieving welcome - Phogge - 10-06-2022
I like the mid majors... St. Mary's, Butler, for awhile Coastal Carolina, Loyola with the nun. In the past the Gaiters teams under Westphal, or was it Westhead? Santa Clara with Russi and Sobrero and Kenny Sears before that. Of course USF all time with Russ, jones, Perry, Farmer, Boldt, LaCour. Pacific with Krulish and the great Keith Swagerty. Gonzaga with Frank Burgess. Cal under Pete Newell with defense and Imhoff.
Now Stanford is a mid major and under achieves.
RE: MBB: overachieving welcome - Spiny_Norman - 10-06-2022
(10-06-2022, 03:52 PM)gailtate Wrote:(10-06-2022, 01:55 PM)Spiny_Norman Wrote: [quote="gailtate" pid='365205' dateline='1665085053']
If Stanford had a tough-minded, hard-nosed mover-and-shaker for an A.D. and not a conflict-averse, budget-blundering milquetoast educrat, Jerrod Haase would be long-gone today and Stanford hoops might be headed towards something exciting right about now (for a change).
What hoops program(s) do you see out there that you like?
Pac12, I like UCLA this year.
Year in and year out, hard to not love Gonzaga, although they pay a price in March having had steady diet of cupcakes.
Nationally, UNC is loaded.
Are there any programs that you like that you think could be a model for Stanford?
RE: MBB: overachieving welcome - StanfordMatt - 10-06-2022
(10-06-2022, 09:50 PM)Spiny_Norman Wrote:(10-06-2022, 03:52 PM)gailtate Wrote:(10-06-2022, 01:55 PM)Spiny_Norman Wrote: [quote="gailtate" pid='365205' dateline='1665085053']
If Stanford had a tough-minded, hard-nosed mover-and-shaker for an A.D. and not a conflict-averse, budget-blundering milquetoast educrat, Jerrod Haase would be long-gone today and Stanford hoops might be headed towards something exciting right about now (for a change).
What hoops program(s) do you see out there that you like?
Pac12, I like UCLA this year.
Year in and year out, hard to not love Gonzaga, although they pay a price in March having had steady diet of cupcakes.
Nationally, UNC is loaded.
Are there any programs that you like that you think could be a model for Stanford?
UVA. We should’ve snagged Bennett out of Pullman when we had the chance. He would’ve come, too.