The CardBoard
Coaching hubris - Printable Version

+- The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board)
+-- Forum: C-House! (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: Coaching hubris (/thread-24489.html)


Coaching hubris - OutsiderFan - 10-14-2023

Dan Lanning edition.

Last week it was Miami HC Mario Cristobal tempting fate by running the ball trying to gain extra yards instead of taking a knee. He lost the game when his RB fumbled the ball away and his defense gave up an Oregon State at Stanford-like TD on the final play of the game.

This week it was Oregon HC Dan Lanning eschewing FG opportunities twice in game against Washington and getting nothing when his offense snapped the ball from the 3 and 8 yard lines of the Huskies. 

The Ducks intercepted Penix with less than a minute before half, moved the ball, and faced 4th and Goal from the UW 3 with a few seconds left in the half. A FG would have brought the Ducks to 21-22 and they were receiving the second half kickoff.  Instead, Lanning went for the TD and didn't get it. Oregon promptly when 3 and out, punted the ball away, and found themselves trailing 18-29 instead. 

On the very next possession after falling behind by 11, they also drove the ball deep into the Red Zone, and again eschewed the FG that would have made it 21-29. Washington did end up punting and Oregon ultimately would take a 33-29 lead, but they ended up losing by 3. 

It seem like yesterday that fans used to always complain about coaches punting and not going for it on 4th down enough. Oddly enough, it seems many coaches have now gone way overboard and are being too aggressive and not balancing risk enough. Yes, I get it, you want to score a TD and take the lead going into half time, but it's a long game. Think Lanning wished he had those 3 points right now? I know Duck fans do.

Regardless, that game lived up to the hype, which was nice to see. I picked Washington to win, but Oregon really should have won, and would have if its coach had a little less hubris.

RE: Coaching hubris - cardcrimson - 10-14-2023

Apples and oranges. 

Cristobal could have ended the game by taking a knee. Stupid decision to have his back run the ball. 

Oregon always attacks, so going for it on fourth was not a surprise either time. The head scratcher was not punting the ball with a couple of minutes left. Instead they failed to convert and gave the Huskies great field position for what turned out to be the winning drive. Oregon's defense has been great all season, and the coach trusted it.

On the flip side, Washington went for it on fourth and goal with six or so minutes left down by four and didn't make it. Should they have kicked to get within one? Also, they scored very quickly on their last drive, leaving the Ducks a ton of time. Guess you'd think that was a mistake, as well.

RE: Coaching hubris - TriangleTree - 10-14-2023

OutsiderFan dateline='[url=tel:1697328975' Wrote:  1697328975[/url]']
Dan Lanning edition.

Last week it was Miami HC Mario Cristobal tempting fate by running the ball trying to gain extra yards instead of taking a knee. He lost the game when his RB fumbled the ball away and his defense gave up an Oregon State at Stanford-like TD on the final play of the game.

This week it was Oregon HC Dan Lanning eschewing FG opportunities twice in game against Washington and getting nothing when his offense snapped the ball from the 3 and 8 yard lines of the Huskies. 

The Ducks intercepted Penix with less than a minute before half, moved the ball, and faced 4th and Goal from the UW 3 with a few seconds left in the half. A FG would have brought the Ducks to 21-22 and they were receiving the second half kickoff.  Instead, Lanning went for the TD and didn't get it. Oregon promptly when 3 and out, punted the ball away, and found themselves trailing 18-29 instead. 

On the very next possession after falling behind by 11, they also drove the ball deep into the Red Zone, and again eschewed the FG that would have made it 21-29. Washington did end up punting and Oregon ultimately would take a 33-29 lead, but they ended up losing by 3. 

It seem like yesterday that fans used to always complain about coaches punting and not going for it on 4th down enough. Oddly enough, it seems many coaches have now gone way overboard and are being too aggressive and not balancing risk enough. Yes, I get it, you want to score a TD and take the lead going into half time, but it's a long game. Think Lanning wished he had those 3 points right now? I know Duck fans do.

Regardless, that game lived up to the hype, which was nice to see. I picked Washington to win, but Oregon really should have won, and would have if its coach had a little less hubris.

Don’t forget Deion choosing to be on offense after winning the OT coin flip

RE: Coaching hubris - OutsiderFan - 10-14-2023

(10-14-2023, 05:38 PM)cardcrimson Wrote:  Apples and oranges. 

Cristobal could have ended the game by taking a knee. Stupid decision to have his back run the ball. 

Oregon always attacks, so going for it on fourth was not a surprise either time. The head scratcher was not punting the ball with a couple of minutes left. Instead they failed to convert and gave the Huskies great field position for what turned out to be the winning drive. Oregon's defense has been great all season, and the coach trusted it.

On the flip side, Washington went for it on fourth and goal with six or so minutes left down by four and didn't make it. Should they have kicked to get within one? Also, they scored very quickly on their last drive, leaving the Ducks a ton of time. Guess you'd think that was a mistake, as well.

Ya, I know Oregon is aggressive, but they objectively lost by being too aggressive, which I call hubris.

Washington should have kicked the FG. I was shocked they didn't.

I didn't like the 3-man rush on Oregon's last drive, though it worked with the missed FG.

The Last Huskies TD reminded me of the "Curtis Williams game" at Stanford. Two plays and a TD in like 30 seconds. Only that TD only left less than 20 seconds on the clock. I get wanting to run clock, but you have to score any way you can with any amount of time on the clock, as a first priority.

RE: Coaching hubris - KartyFan - 10-14-2023

Rigorous objective research (analytics) would prove most of the aggressive decisions discussed above to be correct. Washington's decision to go for it on 4th and goal from the 1, down 4 was a no-brainer by the numbers. Even though they failed, they gave Oregon terrible field position, which is why their 10-play drive scored no points.

RE: Coaching hubris - OutsiderFan - 10-15-2023

(10-14-2023, 11:20 PM)KartyFan Wrote:  Rigorous objective research (analytics) would prove most of the aggressive decisions discussed above to be correct. Washington's decision to go for it on 4th and goal from the 1, down 4 was a no-brainer by the numbers. Even though they failed, they gave Oregon terrible field position, which is why their 10-play drive scored no points.

Numbers have no context. Oregon was kicking UW's ass in short yardage situations. UW scored its game winning TD as a result of two long pass plays that can't be executed from the 1 yard line.

RE: Coaching hubris - washingtonismoney - 10-15-2023

Had no problem with Lanning going for it in the 4th down situations. Can debate some of the specific calls but the principle was sound. Totally different than the Cristobal situation.

RE: Coaching hubris - Giants - 10-15-2023

washingtonismoney dateline='[url=tel:1697381098' Wrote:  1697381098[/url]']
Had no problem with Lanning going for it in the 4th down situations. Can debate some of the specific calls but the principle was sound. Totally different than the Cristobal situation.

I agree.  Heck, the game came down to a missed 43 yard FG attempt, not a coach’s decision.  Had the FG attempt been good, UO may have won in OT and we wouldn’t be having this conversation.  In today’s college football there is is a significant bias towards offense.  Coach’s have to be aggressive.

RE: Coaching hubris - scorecard - 10-15-2023

(10-14-2023, 05:47 PM)TriangleTree Wrote:  Don’t forget Deion choosing to be on offense after winning the OT coin flip

A couple of other nice Deion moments:

Deion went for it on 4th and 2 early in the 3rd quarter from our 45 yd line while already up 29-0.  Shedeur was sacked for a 12 yd loss, giving us great field position on their 43 yard line, and this was the start of the comeback.  We had shown absolutely nothing on offense to that point, so that was a big momentum changer.

At the end of the 3rd, we had an incomplete pass on 3rd and 7 from the CU 16 yd line, down 29-19 at the time.  However, Filkins was called for an illegal block.  Instead of making us kick a FG, Deion took the penalty, pushing us back to the 31 yd line (but still not out of Karty FG range), but replaying 3rd down.  But on that replayed 3rd and 22, Travis Hunter gets a Trojanesque personal foul for hitting Mudia Reuben in the head, which keeps our drive alive.  We eventually score a TD and you could just feel their collective stadium sphincters tighten.

RE: Coaching hubris - Giants - 10-15-2023

TriangleTree dateline='[url=tel:1697330865' Wrote:  1697330865[/url]']
OutsiderFan dateline='[url=tel:1697328975' Wrote:  1697328975[/url]']
Dan Lanning edition.

Last week it was Miami HC Mario Cristobal tempting fate by running the ball trying to gain extra yards instead of taking a knee. He lost the game when his RB fumbled the ball away and his defense gave up an Oregon State at Stanford-like TD on the final play of the game.

This week it was Oregon HC Dan Lanning eschewing FG opportunities twice in game against Washington and getting nothing when his offense snapped the ball from the 3 and 8 yard lines of the Huskies. 

The Ducks intercepted Penix with less than a minute before half, moved the ball, and faced 4th and Goal from the UW 3 with a few seconds left in the half. A FG would have brought the Ducks to 21-22 and they were receiving the second half kickoff.  Instead, Lanning went for the TD and didn't get it. Oregon promptly when 3 and out, punted the ball away, and found themselves trailing 18-29 instead. 

On the very next possession after falling behind by 11, they also drove the ball deep into the Red Zone, and again eschewed the FG that would have made it 21-29. Washington did end up punting and Oregon ultimately would take a 33-29 lead, but they ended up losing by 3. 

It seem like yesterday that fans used to always complain about coaches punting and not going for it on 4th down enough. Oddly enough, it seems many coaches have now gone way overboard and are being too aggressive and not balancing risk enough. Yes, I get it, you want to score a TD and take the lead going into half time, but it's a long game. Think Lanning wished he had those 3 points right now? I know Duck fans do.

Regardless, that game lived up to the hype, which was nice to see. I picked Washington to win, but Oregon really should have won, and would have if its coach had a little less hubris.

Don’t forget Deion choosing to be on offense after winning the OT coin flip

Coach Prime did the same thing v. Colorado State and won in 2 OTs.  He said he likes the idea of being on O first.

RE: Coaching hubris - Mick - 10-16-2023

(10-15-2023, 11:28 PM)Giants Wrote:  
TriangleTree dateline='[url=tel:1697330865' Wrote:  1697330865[/url]']
OutsiderFan dateline='[url=tel:1697328975' Wrote:  1697328975[/url]']
Dan Lanning edition.

Last week it was Miami HC Mario Cristobal tempting fate by running the ball trying to gain extra yards instead of taking a knee. He lost the game when his RB fumbled the ball away and his defense gave up an Oregon State at Stanford-like TD on the final play of the game.

This week it was Oregon HC Dan Lanning eschewing FG opportunities twice in game against Washington and getting nothing when his offense snapped the ball from the 3 and 8 yard lines of the Huskies. 

The Ducks intercepted Penix with less than a minute before half, moved the ball, and faced 4th and Goal from the UW 3 with a few seconds left in the half. A FG would have brought the Ducks to 21-22 and they were receiving the second half kickoff.  Instead, Lanning went for the TD and didn't get it. Oregon promptly when 3 and out, punted the ball away, and found themselves trailing 18-29 instead. 

On the very next possession after falling behind by 11, they also drove the ball deep into the Red Zone, and again eschewed the FG that would have made it 21-29. Washington did end up punting and Oregon ultimately would take a 33-29 lead, but they ended up losing by 3. 

It seem like yesterday that fans used to always complain about coaches punting and not going for it on 4th down enough. Oddly enough, it seems many coaches have now gone way overboard and are being too aggressive and not balancing risk enough. Yes, I get it, you want to score a TD and take the lead going into half time, but it's a long game. Think Lanning wished he had those 3 points right now? I know Duck fans do.

Regardless, that game lived up to the hype, which was nice to see. I picked Washington to win, but Oregon really should have won, and would have if its coach had a little less hubris.

Don’t forget Deion choosing to be on offense after winning the OT coin flip

Coach Prime did the same thing v. Colorado State and won in 2 OTs.  He said he likes the idea of being on O first.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfR3ZbU-oYM

RE: Coaching hubris - MV72018 - 10-16-2023

(10-15-2023, 11:28 PM)Giants Wrote:  
TriangleTree dateline='[url=tel:1697330865' Wrote:  1697330865[/url]']
OutsiderFan dateline='[url=tel:1697328975' Wrote:  1697328975[/url]']
Dan Lanning edition.

Last week it was Miami HC Mario Cristobal tempting fate by running the ball trying to gain extra yards instead of taking a knee. He lost the game when his RB fumbled the ball away and his defense gave up an Oregon State at Stanford-like TD on the final play of the game.

This week it was Oregon HC Dan Lanning eschewing FG opportunities twice in game against Washington and getting nothing when his offense snapped the ball from the 3 and 8 yard lines of the Huskies. 

The Ducks intercepted Penix with less than a minute before half, moved the ball, and faced 4th and Goal from the UW 3 with a few seconds left in the half. A FG would have brought the Ducks to 21-22 and they were receiving the second half kickoff.  Instead, Lanning went for the TD and didn't get it. Oregon promptly when 3 and out, punted the ball away, and found themselves trailing 18-29 instead. 

On the very next possession after falling behind by 11, they also drove the ball deep into the Red Zone, and again eschewed the FG that would have made it 21-29. Washington did end up punting and Oregon ultimately would take a 33-29 lead, but they ended up losing by 3. 

It seem like yesterday that fans used to always complain about coaches punting and not going for it on 4th down enough. Oddly enough, it seems many coaches have now gone way overboard and are being too aggressive and not balancing risk enough. Yes, I get it, you want to score a TD and take the lead going into half time, but it's a long game. Think Lanning wished he had those 3 points right now? I know Duck fans do.

Regardless, that game lived up to the hype, which was nice to see. I picked Washington to win, but Oregon really should have won, and would have if its coach had a little less hubris.

Don’t forget Deion choosing to be on offense after winning the OT coin flip

Coach Prime did the same thing v. Colorado State and won in 2 OTs.  He said he likes the idea of being on O first.

As far as I am concerned, all this "Coach Prime" worship is a bunch of malarky. Case in point: today Stephen A, Smith called out the UC players for the loss to Stanford but obsequiously heralded Deion as "a hell of a coach." Of course that's to be expected from a clown like SAS. Of course he made no reference at all to Sanders's bonehead coaching decisions, recruitment of mercenaries, dismissal of students on scholarship, and "I just wanna win" mantra.

RE: Coaching hubris - Giants - 10-16-2023

Count me as a Coach Prime fan.  I like his approach to the game.  I have no problem with how he has managed his team.  Every kid who was told there was no place for him on the team was given the opportunity to remain on scholarship at CU.  Long term, I think he will be a success (unless, of course, another school comes along with an offer he can’t refuse).

RE: Coaching hubris - Bampa - 10-16-2023

Quote:As far as I am concerned, all this "Coach Prime" worship is a bunch of malarky. Case in point: today Stephen A, Smith called out the UC players for the loss to Stanford but obsequiously heralded Deion as "a hell of a coach." Of course that's to be expected from a clown like SAS. Of course he made no reference at all to Sanders's bonehead coaching decisions, recruitment of mercenaries, dismissal of students on scholarship, and "I just wanna win" mantra.

  +1    Can't stand the guy!