[FarmBoy]

MAX

Dr. Guggenheim. I don't want to tell you how to do your job. But the fact is no matter how hard I try, I still might flunk another class. And if that means I have to stay on for a post-graduate year, then so be it. But if --

DR. GUGGENHEIM

We don't offer a postgraduate year.

MAX

Well. We don't offer it yet.

Very nice.

The secret, I don't know... I guess you've just gotta find something you love to do and then... do it for the rest of your life. For me, it's going to [Stanford].

[FarmBoy]

MAX

Dr. Guggenheim. I don't want to tell you how to do your job. But the fact is no matter how hard I try, I still might flunk another class. And if that means I have to stay on for a post-graduate year, then so be it. But if --

DR. GUGGENHEIM

We don't offer a postgraduate year.

MAX

Well. We don't offer it yet.

Very nice.

The secret, I don't know... I guess you've just gotta find something you love to do and then... do it for the rest of your life. For me, it's going to [Stanford].

[CTcard]

I wonder if BJS talks to any of our players who did a graduate transfer last year, such as Patrick Skov.

Early on we had some posts updating the status of our various transfers. Perhaps this is a time to do so to cap the season.

Patrick Skov. Ga Tech
Started 8 games (first 6, last 2)
93 carries, 377 yards, 4.1 yds/carry, 6 TDs.
second on team in carries, fourth in yards.

Kelsey Young, Boise State
Started 1 game (vs BYU)
101 carries, 511 yards, 5.1 yds/carry, 8 TDs
Seems to have been Boise's #2 back. Got to play with brother Cory.

Kevin Reihner, Penn State
No starts, appeared in every game.
I don't know what role he played.

Wayne Lyons, Michigan
no starts.
played as reserve CB in two games
appeared in all games, mostly on special teams.
made 6 total tackles, 1 pass break up

Charlie Hopkins, UVa
started 11 games.
11 catches, 90 yards, 8.2 yds/reception, 2 TD

Did I miss anyone?

[CTcard]

I wonder if BJS talks to any of our players who did a graduate transfer last year, such as Patrick Skov.

Early on we had some posts updating the status of our various transfers. Perhaps this is a time to do so to cap the season.

Patrick Skov. Ga Tech
Started 8 games (first 6, last 2)
93 carries, 377 yards, 4.1 yds/carry, 6 TDs.
second on team in carries, fourth in yards.

Kelsey Young, Boise State
Started 1 game (vs BYU)
101 carries, 511 yards, 5.1 yds/carry, 8 TDs
Seems to have been Boise's #2 back. Got to play with brother Cory.

Kevin Reihner, Penn State
No starts, appeared in every game.
I don't know what role he played.

Wayne Lyons, Michigan
no starts.
played as reserve CB in two games
appeared in all games, mostly on special teams.
made 6 total tackles, 1 pass break up

Charlie Hopkins, UVa
started 11 games.
11 catches, 90 yards, 8.2 yds/reception, 2 TD

Did I miss anyone?

[Spiny_Norman]

It does not appear that Evan Crower played football after graduating from Stanford. His twitter feed does not indicate what he is doing now, though he definitely followed Stanford football this fall.

We should be ever grateful to Crower for stepping away from Stanford football when he did.  When he hung up his jersey, #5 became available.  And we know who took it.

[Spiny_Norman]

It does not appear that Evan Crower played football after graduating from Stanford. His twitter feed does not indicate what he is doing now, though he definitely followed Stanford football this fall.

We should be ever grateful to Crower for stepping away from Stanford football when he did.  When he hung up his jersey, #5 became available.  And we know who took it.

[Rally]

It does not appear that Evan Crower played football after graduating from Stanford. His twitter feed does not indicate what he is doing now, though he definitely followed Stanford football this fall.

We should be ever grateful to Crower for stepping away from Stanford football when he did.  When he hung up his jersey, #5 became available.  And we know who took it.

Since he cares I am glad he has it, but I think he should wear this number

[Rally]

It does not appear that Evan Crower played football after graduating from Stanford. His twitter feed does not indicate what he is doing now, though he definitely followed Stanford football this fall.

We should be ever grateful to Crower for stepping away from Stanford football when he did.  When he hung up his jersey, #5 became available.  And we know who took it.

Since he cares I am glad he has it, but I think he should wear this number

[Hurlburt88]

Up arrow!

[Hurlburt88]

Up arrow!

[Ratmandoo]

If I were a Stanford football player with a reasonable chance at playing in the NFL, I can absolutely see the rationale for taking a relatively light load my 4th year, taking the minimum the fall of my 5th year, THEN getting my degree, and then focus on getting ready for the draft.

I wonder how this plan would work if the team ended up in the National Championship game. If a player graduates in the fall quarter but the national championship game doesn't take place until the beginning of winter quarter, would the player be eligible?  I know there is a weird practice rule that will impact this year's game (and did the same last year). Clemson's winter quarter has started already but Alabama's semester hasn't. So Clemson can only practice 20 hours this week in preparation for the game because school has started. Alabama, however, has no such restrictions because classes haven't started for them yet. This happened last year with Oregon already having classes and Ohio State didn't.

My guess is in ColoradoTree's scenario, a player who had graduated already and is no longer enrolled wouldn't be eligible. I wonder if this will ever come up. 

[Ratmandoo]

If I were a Stanford football player with a reasonable chance at playing in the NFL, I can absolutely see the rationale for taking a relatively light load my 4th year, taking the minimum the fall of my 5th year, THEN getting my degree, and then focus on getting ready for the draft.

I wonder how this plan would work if the team ended up in the National Championship game. If a player graduates in the fall quarter but the national championship game doesn't take place until the beginning of winter quarter, would the player be eligible?  I know there is a weird practice rule that will impact this year's game (and did the same last year). Clemson's winter quarter has started already but Alabama's semester hasn't. So Clemson can only practice 20 hours this week in preparation for the game because school has started. Alabama, however, has no such restrictions because classes haven't started for them yet. This happened last year with Oregon already having classes and Ohio State didn't.

My guess is in ColoradoTree's scenario, a player who had graduated already and is no longer enrolled wouldn't be eligible. I wonder if this will ever come up. 

[yvonne]

[quote author=Spiny_Norman link=topic=14318.msg151554#msg151554 date=1452119550]
It does not appear that Evan Crower played football after graduating from Stanford. His twitter feed does not indicate what he is doing now, though he definitely followed Stanford football this fall.

We should be ever grateful to Crower for stepping away from Stanford football when he did.  When he hung up his jersey, #5 became available.  And we know who took it.

Since he cares I am glad he has it, but I think he should wear this number

∞
[/quote]

I love this eight.

[yvonne]

[quote author=Spiny_Norman link=topic=14318.msg151554#msg151554 date=1452119550]
It does not appear that Evan Crower played football after graduating from Stanford. His twitter feed does not indicate what he is doing now, though he definitely followed Stanford football this fall.

We should be ever grateful to Crower for stepping away from Stanford football when he did.  When he hung up his jersey, #5 became available.  And we know who took it.

Since he cares I am glad he has it, but I think he should wear this number

∞
[/quote]

I love this eight.

[winflop]

[quote author=dabigv link=topic=14318.msg151482#msg151482 date=1452105930]
I wonder if BJS talks to any of our players who did a graduate transfer last year, such as Patrick Skov.

Early on we had some posts updating the status of our various transfers. Perhaps this is a time to do so to cap the season.

Patrick Skov. Ga Tech
Started 8 games (first 6, last 2)
93 carries, 377 yards, 4.1 yds/carry, 6 TDs.
second on team in carries, fourth in yards.

Kelsey Young, Boise State
Started 1 game (vs BYU)
101 carries, 511 yards, 5.1 yds/carry, 8 TDs
Seems to have been Boise's #2 back. Got to play with brother Cory.

Kevin Reihner, Penn State
No starts, appeared in every game.
I don't know what role he played.

Wayne Lyons, Michigan
no starts.
played as reserve CB in two games
appeared in all games, mostly on special teams.
made 6 total tackles, 1 pass break up

Charlie Hopkins, UVa
started 11 games.
11 catches, 90 yards, 8.2 yds/reception, 2 TD

Did I miss anyone?
[/quote]

This reinforces the points made when all these guys transferred that this would not have a material impact on Stanford because only Skov was going to see much if anything other than garbage time on the field.

[winflop]

[quote author=dabigv link=topic=14318.msg151482#msg151482 date=1452105930]
I wonder if BJS talks to any of our players who did a graduate transfer last year, such as Patrick Skov.

Early on we had some posts updating the status of our various transfers. Perhaps this is a time to do so to cap the season.

Patrick Skov. Ga Tech
Started 8 games (first 6, last 2)
93 carries, 377 yards, 4.1 yds/carry, 6 TDs.
second on team in carries, fourth in yards.

Kelsey Young, Boise State
Started 1 game (vs BYU)
101 carries, 511 yards, 5.1 yds/carry, 8 TDs
Seems to have been Boise's #2 back. Got to play with brother Cory.

Kevin Reihner, Penn State
No starts, appeared in every game.
I don't know what role he played.

Wayne Lyons, Michigan
no starts.
played as reserve CB in two games
appeared in all games, mostly on special teams.
made 6 total tackles, 1 pass break up

Charlie Hopkins, UVa
started 11 games.
11 catches, 90 yards, 8.2 yds/reception, 2 TD

Did I miss anyone?
[/quote]

This reinforces the points made when all these guys transferred that this would not have a material impact on Stanford because only Skov was going to see much if anything other than garbage time on the field.

[BostonCard]

This reinforces the points made when all these guys transferred that this would not have a material impact on Stanford because only Skov was going to see much if anything other than garbage time on the field.

Lyons would have had a material impact.  Good chance he would have started for us, or at least been a solid contributor.  Unfortunate for him that he actually reduced his playing time by transferring, but he got to be with his mom and he has a Stanford degree (and potentially a Michigan graduate degree too, if he chose to finish it).

BC

[BostonCard]

This reinforces the points made when all these guys transferred that this would not have a material impact on Stanford because only Skov was going to see much if anything other than garbage time on the field.

Lyons would have had a material impact.  Good chance he would have started for us, or at least been a solid contributor.  Unfortunate for him that he actually reduced his playing time by transferring, but he got to be with his mom and he has a Stanford degree (and potentially a Michigan graduate degree too, if he chose to finish it).

BC

[TreesAndBirds]

Apologize if I've missed this but why did we limit BJS to non Pac 12 teams ( if we did in fact do so)? I understand that he probably wasnt interested in other Pac12 schools,  but I dont like the idea of placing restrictions on a graduate. UCB didnt put any restrictions on Scarlett, and we were probably the last place they wanted him to go.

[TreesAndBirds]

Apologize if I've missed this but why did we limit BJS to non Pac 12 teams ( if we did in fact do so)? I understand that he probably wasnt interested in other Pac12 schools,  but I dont like the idea of placing restrictions on a graduate. UCB didnt put any restrictions on Scarlett, and we were probably the last place they wanted him to go.

[rudruff]

I don't think you can place restrictions on someone once they have the degree.

[rudruff]

I don't think you can place restrictions on someone once they have the degree.

[stupac2]

I don't think you can place restrictions on someone once they have the degree.

This is correct. Does anyone think Cal allowed Scarlett to come here? Of course not. The point is that the current rule says that if a player has a degree and eligibility left, they can go anywhere they want without penalty, as long as the new school offers a degree that the old one didn't (which is typically trivial to accomplish since no one offers everything).

The talk of "granting release" means that either the people saying it don't really know the rule, or Sanders isn't graduating. The former seems more likely, since (IIRC) if he's transferring without a degree he'd need to burn a year of eligibility, leaving him with none (though Terry could probably clarify, there may be some nuance here that I'm unaware of).

[stupac2]

I don't think you can place restrictions on someone once they have the degree.

This is correct. Does anyone think Cal allowed Scarlett to come here? Of course not. The point is that the current rule says that if a player has a degree and eligibility left, they can go anywhere they want without penalty, as long as the new school offers a degree that the old one didn't (which is typically trivial to accomplish since no one offers everything).

The talk of "granting release" means that either the people saying it don't really know the rule, or Sanders isn't graduating. The former seems more likely, since (IIRC) if he's transferring without a degree he'd need to burn a year of eligibility, leaving him with none (though Terry could probably clarify, there may be some nuance here that I'm unaware of).

[Rally]

Apologize if I've missed this but why did we limit BJS to non Pac 12 teams ( if we did in fact do so)? I understand that he probably wasnt interested in other Pac12 schools,  but I dont like the idea of placing restrictions on a graduate. UCB didnt put any restrictions on Scarlett, and we were probably the last place they wanted him to go.

I never heard he was limited.  Did you read that somewhere ?

[Rally]

Apologize if I've missed this but why did we limit BJS to non Pac 12 teams ( if we did in fact do so)? I understand that he probably wasnt interested in other Pac12 schools,  but I dont like the idea of placing restrictions on a graduate. UCB didnt put any restrictions on Scarlett, and we were probably the last place they wanted him to go.

I never heard he was limited.  Did you read that somewhere ?

[TreesAndBirds]

[quote author=TreesAndBirds link=topic=14318.msg151650#msg151650 date=1452138524]
Apologize if I've missed this but why did we limit BJS to non Pac 12 teams ( if we did in fact do so)? I understand that he probably wasnt interested in other Pac12 schools,  but I dont like the idea of placing restrictions on a graduate. UCB didnt put any restrictions on Scarlett, and we were probably the last place they wanted him to go.

I never heard he was limited.  Did you read that somewhere ?
[/quote]

Here is the article re BJS being unable to transfer within the pac12.
http://newsok.com/article/5470817/?no_ca...show_all=1

[TreesAndBirds]

[quote author=TreesAndBirds link=topic=14318.msg151650#msg151650 date=1452138524]
Apologize if I've missed this but why did we limit BJS to non Pac 12 teams ( if we did in fact do so)? I understand that he probably wasnt interested in other Pac12 schools,  but I dont like the idea of placing restrictions on a graduate. UCB didnt put any restrictions on Scarlett, and we were probably the last place they wanted him to go.

I never heard he was limited.  Did you read that somewhere ?
[/quote]

Here is the article re BJS being unable to transfer within the pac12.
http://newsok.com/article/5470817/?no_ca...show_all=1

[Rally]

[quote author=ferrari link=topic=14318.msg151656#msg151656 date=1452142689]
[quote author=TreesAndBirds link=topic=14318.msg151650#msg151650 date=1452138524]
Apologize if I've missed this but why did we limit BJS to non Pac 12 teams ( if we did in fact do so)? I understand that he probably wasnt interested in other Pac12 schools,  but I dont like the idea of placing restrictions on a graduate. UCB didnt put any restrictions on Scarlett, and we were probably the last place they wanted him to go.

I never heard he was limited.  Did you read that somewhere ?
[/quote]

Here is the article re BJS being unable to transfer within the pac12.
http://newsok.com/article/5470817/?no_ca...show_all=1
[/quote]

Hmm.

[Rally]

[quote author=ferrari link=topic=14318.msg151656#msg151656 date=1452142689]
[quote author=TreesAndBirds link=topic=14318.msg151650#msg151650 date=1452138524]
Apologize if I've missed this but why did we limit BJS to non Pac 12 teams ( if we did in fact do so)? I understand that he probably wasnt interested in other Pac12 schools,  but I dont like the idea of placing restrictions on a graduate. UCB didnt put any restrictions on Scarlett, and we were probably the last place they wanted him to go.

I never heard he was limited.  Did you read that somewhere ?
[/quote]

Here is the article re BJS being unable to transfer within the pac12.
http://newsok.com/article/5470817/?no_ca...show_all=1
[/quote]

Hmm.

[FarmBoy]

The guys at BI are getting their panties in a twist that Scarlett transferred to Stanford but we're "not letting" BJS transfer within the Pac12.

[FarmBoy]

The guys at BI are getting their panties in a twist that Scarlett transferred to Stanford but we're "not letting" BJS transfer within the Pac12.

[Rally]

The guys at BI are getting their panties in a twist that Scarlett transferred to Stanford but we're "not letting" BJS transfer within the Pac12.

Oh please.  What Pac12 school would he want to go to?  C.al????

[Rally]

The guys at BI are getting their panties in a twist that Scarlett transferred to Stanford but we're "not letting" BJS transfer within the Pac12.

Oh please.  What Pac12 school would he want to go to?  C.al????

[CTcard]

[quote author=rudruff link=topic=14318.msg151651#msg151651 date=1452138798]
I don't think you can place restrictions on someone once they have the degree.

This is correct.
[/quote]

As far as I can tell that isn't quite correct. I cannot find the text of the rules, but I did find some third party summaries.

There are two relevant NCAA eligibility rules in play here.

The newer, usually more relevant rule is the Graduate Transfer Exception.
This was proposal 2010-52, passed in April 2011.
The rules for this seem to be:
- The athlete has never previously transferred
- The athlete’s previous institution says it does not object to allowing the athlete to use the one-time transfer exception
- The athlete is enrolled in a specific graduate program
- The previous school did not renew the athlete’s athletic scholarship.

The older, but still on the books rule is the Graduate Transfer Waiver.
This is now mainly used by athletes who have already transferred.
It requires that,
- The athlete’s former school does not object to the waiver;
- The athlete is enrolled in a graduate program not offered at the previous institution.
And you still have to apply for said waiver, which seems to be always granted.

It is this older rule that leads to all the confusion about whether the graduate program has to be something not offered at the original institution.

-------------------
In the case of Scarlett, it was reported that Dykes didn't wanted to object to the transfer to Stanford, but higher levels of the Berkeley administration told him he had to. This all led to his pissy statement that he didn't care about anything Scarlett did.


As an addendum, I object to them calling this a "transfer" and having any restriction on the matter at all. For any other student, if the actually get a degree then go somewhere to grad school nobody calls it a transfer - and an athlete that gets that far should merely be congratulated.

[CTcard]

[quote author=rudruff link=topic=14318.msg151651#msg151651 date=1452138798]
I don't think you can place restrictions on someone once they have the degree.

This is correct.
[/quote]

As far as I can tell that isn't quite correct. I cannot find the text of the rules, but I did find some third party summaries.

There are two relevant NCAA eligibility rules in play here.

The newer, usually more relevant rule is the Graduate Transfer Exception.
This was proposal 2010-52, passed in April 2011.
The rules for this seem to be:
- The athlete has never previously transferred
- The athlete’s previous institution says it does not object to allowing the athlete to use the one-time transfer exception
- The athlete is enrolled in a specific graduate program
- The previous school did not renew the athlete’s athletic scholarship.

The older, but still on the books rule is the Graduate Transfer Waiver.
This is now mainly used by athletes who have already transferred.
It requires that,
- The athlete’s former school does not object to the waiver;
- The athlete is enrolled in a graduate program not offered at the previous institution.
And you still have to apply for said waiver, which seems to be always granted.

It is this older rule that leads to all the confusion about whether the graduate program has to be something not offered at the original institution.

-------------------
In the case of Scarlett, it was reported that Dykes didn't wanted to object to the transfer to Stanford, but higher levels of the Berkeley administration told him he had to. This all led to his pissy statement that he didn't care about anything Scarlett did.


As an addendum, I object to them calling this a "transfer" and having any restriction on the matter at all. For any other student, if the actually get a degree then go somewhere to grad school nobody calls it a transfer - and an athlete that gets that far should merely be congratulated.

[TriangleTree]

The guys at BI are getting their panties in a twist that Scarlett transferred to Stanford but we're "not letting" BJS transfer within the Pac12.

Actually, I'd also be disappointed if it were true that Stanford is restricting his options.
As someone else said, anyone who graduates should be congratulated and free to go play wherever they decide gives them the best options, within conference or not, whether they choose to exercise that option or not. If there are rules that enable the school to limit their options, we should be waving them.
Am I missing something here?

[TriangleTree]

The guys at BI are getting their panties in a twist that Scarlett transferred to Stanford but we're "not letting" BJS transfer within the Pac12.

Actually, I'd also be disappointed if it were true that Stanford is restricting his options.
As someone else said, anyone who graduates should be congratulated and free to go play wherever they decide gives them the best options, within conference or not, whether they choose to exercise that option or not. If there are rules that enable the school to limit their options, we should be waving them.
Am I missing something here?

[TrumpCard]

I would wait for more details to come out before reaching a conclusion. Given Shaw's strong support for the grad transfer rule, it would surprise me a lot if Shaw said no to a pac-12 transfer.

[TrumpCard]

I would wait for more details to come out before reaching a conclusion. Given Shaw's strong support for the grad transfer rule, it would surprise me a lot if Shaw said no to a pac-12 transfer.