03-19-2017, 12:13 PM
I would put W Golf as having our second best shot after WWP. W Golf is the only one of the four that boasts a #1 ranking but the nature of golf and parity in the sport make predictions tricky.
WSwim national championship meet preview
I would put W Golf as having our second best shot after WWP. W Golf is the only one of the four that boasts a #1 ranking but the nature of golf and parity in the sport make predictions tricky.
03-19-2017, 01:20 PM
(03-19-2017, 12:13 PM)StanfordMatt link Wrote:I would put W Golf as having our second best shot after WWP. W Golf is the only one of the four that boasts a #1 ranking but the nature of golf and parity in the sport make predictions tricky.
And I think the format of the NCAA Championship lends itself to a more randomized result.
"It's not what you don't know that gets you in trouble. It's what you think you know that just isn't so."
Mark Twain
(03-19-2017, 12:13 PM)StanfordMatt link Wrote:I would put W Golf as having our second best shot after WWP. W Golf is the only one of the four that boasts a #1 ranking but the nature of golf and parity in the sport make predictions tricky.
And I think the format of the NCAA Championship lends itself to a more randomized result.
"It's not what you don't know that gets you in trouble. It's what you think you know that just isn't so."
Mark Twain
03-19-2017, 02:58 PM
We get to see glimpses into just who Stanford's swimmers are. The two *'ed ones would be ones I suggest you see.
Ella & Katie (Day 1)
Katie Ledecky - "Not to be nitpicky, but..." (Day 2)
Ella Eastin - Wasn't in the best mood going into tonight (Day 2)
Ally Howe and Janet Hu share insight on managing emotions (Day 2)
Greg Meehan - That is the single greatest moment in our sport (seeing swimmer's joy after they've had a great swim) (Day 2)
Lia and Simone - To me this was the pinnacle of swimming (Day 4)
* Ledecky and Eastin give praise to Stanford Legacy (Day 4)
* Greg Meehan pays incredible homage to Lia Neal (Day 4) (longer version)
Ella & Katie (Day 1)
Katie Ledecky - "Not to be nitpicky, but..." (Day 2)
Ella Eastin - Wasn't in the best mood going into tonight (Day 2)
Ally Howe and Janet Hu share insight on managing emotions (Day 2)
Greg Meehan - That is the single greatest moment in our sport (seeing swimmer's joy after they've had a great swim) (Day 2)
Lia and Simone - To me this was the pinnacle of swimming (Day 4)
* Ledecky and Eastin give praise to Stanford Legacy (Day 4)
* Greg Meehan pays incredible homage to Lia Neal (Day 4) (longer version)
We get to see glimpses into just who Stanford's swimmers are. The two *'ed ones would be ones I suggest you see.
Ella & Katie (Day 1)
Katie Ledecky - "Not to be nitpicky, but..." (Day 2)
Ella Eastin - Wasn't in the best mood going into tonight (Day 2)
Ally Howe and Janet Hu share insight on managing emotions (Day 2)
Greg Meehan - That is the single greatest moment in our sport (seeing swimmer's joy after they've had a great swim) (Day 2)
Lia and Simone - To me this was the pinnacle of swimming (Day 4)
* Ledecky and Eastin give praise to Stanford Legacy (Day 4)
* Greg Meehan pays incredible homage to Lia Neal (Day 4) (longer version)
Ella & Katie (Day 1)
Katie Ledecky - "Not to be nitpicky, but..." (Day 2)
Ella Eastin - Wasn't in the best mood going into tonight (Day 2)
Ally Howe and Janet Hu share insight on managing emotions (Day 2)
Greg Meehan - That is the single greatest moment in our sport (seeing swimmer's joy after they've had a great swim) (Day 2)
Lia and Simone - To me this was the pinnacle of swimming (Day 4)
* Ledecky and Eastin give praise to Stanford Legacy (Day 4)
* Greg Meehan pays incredible homage to Lia Neal (Day 4) (longer version)
03-19-2017, 03:09 PM
Thanks MT for compiling Ledecky's accomplishments. It's hard to keep track of them all.
Curious article on the swimmer of the year award: https://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/ne...-champion/
Doesn't even mention Ledecky. Finishes off with this gem:
This person basically dismisses the 200m free because it was a tie even though it was the top time of the year
Curious article on the swimmer of the year award: https://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/ne...-champion/
Doesn't even mention Ledecky. Finishes off with this gem:
Quote:So while Howe, Simone Manuel, Eastin and Lilly King all broke American records over the course of the weekend, no one besides Baker won three individual events outright. The swimmer of the meet honor was deservedly hers.
This person basically dismisses the 200m free because it was a tie even though it was the top time of the year
Thanks MT for compiling Ledecky's accomplishments. It's hard to keep track of them all.
Curious article on the swimmer of the year award: https://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/ne...-champion/
Doesn't even mention Ledecky. Finishes off with this gem:
This person basically dismisses the 200m free because it was a tie even though it was the top time of the year
Curious article on the swimmer of the year award: https://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/ne...-champion/
Doesn't even mention Ledecky. Finishes off with this gem:
Quote:So while Howe, Simone Manuel, Eastin and Lilly King all broke American records over the course of the weekend, no one besides Baker won three individual events outright. The swimmer of the meet honor was deservedly hers.
This person basically dismisses the 200m free because it was a tie even though it was the top time of the year
03-19-2017, 04:46 PM
I wonder ... do you think that voters valued Baker as an all-arounder at NCAAs (IM and back champ, on free relays) over Katie who swam one stroke at NCAAs? I, too, question the choice of Baker. But I wonder if the fact that Katie was a freestyler (and, I might add, the best all-around freestyler in the world, male or female) at NCAAs is the reason why. Not arguing. Just wondering.
And, yes, I am aware Katie is ridiculously good at the 400 IM. She just didn't swim it at NCAAs. Which also makes me wonder how she chose those particular three events over others she could have won. Maybe she gave way to others on the team who could win other events?
-m.
And, yes, I am aware Katie is ridiculously good at the 400 IM. She just didn't swim it at NCAAs. Which also makes me wonder how she chose those particular three events over others she could have won. Maybe she gave way to others on the team who could win other events?
-m.
I wonder ... do you think that voters valued Baker as an all-arounder at NCAAs (IM and back champ, on free relays) over Katie who swam one stroke at NCAAs? I, too, question the choice of Baker. But I wonder if the fact that Katie was a freestyler (and, I might add, the best all-around freestyler in the world, male or female) at NCAAs is the reason why. Not arguing. Just wondering.
And, yes, I am aware Katie is ridiculously good at the 400 IM. She just didn't swim it at NCAAs. Which also makes me wonder how she chose those particular three events over others she could have won. Maybe she gave way to others on the team who could win other events?
-m.
And, yes, I am aware Katie is ridiculously good at the 400 IM. She just didn't swim it at NCAAs. Which also makes me wonder how she chose those particular three events over others she could have won. Maybe she gave way to others on the team who could win other events?
-m.
03-19-2017, 05:52 PM
I don't think it's reasonable to knock Ledecky for sticking to the freestyle in this meet but award Baker for avoiding swims over 200m.Â
03-19-2017, 06:25 PM
(03-19-2017, 05:52 PM)82 Card link Wrote:I don't think it's reasonable to knock Ledecky for sticking to the freestyle in this meet but award Baker for avoiding swims over 200m.
Great point about thinking about distance and not merely stroke.
Again, not defending the voters. Just trying to understand.
-m.
(03-19-2017, 05:52 PM)82 Card link Wrote:I don't think it's reasonable to knock Ledecky for sticking to the freestyle in this meet but award Baker for avoiding swims over 200m.
Great point about thinking about distance and not merely stroke.
Again, not defending the voters. Just trying to understand.
-m.
03-19-2017, 07:08 PM
SwimSwam reports that Greg Meehan has been chosen for CSCAA Coach of the Year. Congratulations, Coach!
From what the swimmers say in the video interviews (and, the only way to run a team), the swimmers don't choose the events, the coach does. I think in each event, Stanford had the top two swimmers at the time the entries went in. Each event would have been Katie's only event of the day. If I were coach, I might think that tapering Katie for the 200 Free fits with her other events, and in particular, two relays (800 FR, 400 FR). Tapering her for the 400 IM would have introduced other strokes that might have been a bit distracting.
I noticed that Simone came away from the meet with the same hardware as Kathleen Baker: 4 firsts (50 & 100 Fr, 400FR, 800 FR), 1 second (200 FR), 1 third (200 MR). A bit surprising to me is that she didn't swim the 400 MR (Stanford won by more than a second, so maybe Meehan wanted to reward Lia with this pretty sure win).  Katie Ledecky had 5 firsts, winning every event she swam.
I can't imagine the voters for the Swimmer of the Year award would use the stroke as a basis for choosing one swimmer over another. The CSCAA doesn't have criteria for the award on their site. I would have thought that being the best swimmer was the primary criteria. NCAA records, wins at the NCAA championship, dominating wins/records, and year's best times would be secondary criteria. For me, 5 wins and no losses for Ledecky outweighs 4 wins, a second, and a third that Manuel and Baker had. When you include the records and the dominance of the records, there isn't a question as to who should be Swimmer of the Year.
[By the way, that Swimming World Magazine article was about Baker, and doesn't mention the Swimmer of the Year award.]
From what the swimmers say in the video interviews (and, the only way to run a team), the swimmers don't choose the events, the coach does. I think in each event, Stanford had the top two swimmers at the time the entries went in. Each event would have been Katie's only event of the day. If I were coach, I might think that tapering Katie for the 200 Free fits with her other events, and in particular, two relays (800 FR, 400 FR). Tapering her for the 400 IM would have introduced other strokes that might have been a bit distracting.
I noticed that Simone came away from the meet with the same hardware as Kathleen Baker: 4 firsts (50 & 100 Fr, 400FR, 800 FR), 1 second (200 FR), 1 third (200 MR). A bit surprising to me is that she didn't swim the 400 MR (Stanford won by more than a second, so maybe Meehan wanted to reward Lia with this pretty sure win).  Katie Ledecky had 5 firsts, winning every event she swam.
I can't imagine the voters for the Swimmer of the Year award would use the stroke as a basis for choosing one swimmer over another. The CSCAA doesn't have criteria for the award on their site. I would have thought that being the best swimmer was the primary criteria. NCAA records, wins at the NCAA championship, dominating wins/records, and year's best times would be secondary criteria. For me, 5 wins and no losses for Ledecky outweighs 4 wins, a second, and a third that Manuel and Baker had. When you include the records and the dominance of the records, there isn't a question as to who should be Swimmer of the Year.
[By the way, that Swimming World Magazine article was about Baker, and doesn't mention the Swimmer of the Year award.]
SwimSwam reports that Greg Meehan has been chosen for CSCAA Coach of the Year. Congratulations, Coach!
From what the swimmers say in the video interviews (and, the only way to run a team), the swimmers don't choose the events, the coach does. I think in each event, Stanford had the top two swimmers at the time the entries went in. Each event would have been Katie's only event of the day. If I were coach, I might think that tapering Katie for the 200 Free fits with her other events, and in particular, two relays (800 FR, 400 FR). Tapering her for the 400 IM would have introduced other strokes that might have been a bit distracting.
I noticed that Simone came away from the meet with the same hardware as Kathleen Baker: 4 firsts (50 & 100 Fr, 400FR, 800 FR), 1 second (200 FR), 1 third (200 MR). A bit surprising to me is that she didn't swim the 400 MR (Stanford won by more than a second, so maybe Meehan wanted to reward Lia with this pretty sure win).  Katie Ledecky had 5 firsts, winning every event she swam.
I can't imagine the voters for the Swimmer of the Year award would use the stroke as a basis for choosing one swimmer over another. The CSCAA doesn't have criteria for the award on their site. I would have thought that being the best swimmer was the primary criteria. NCAA records, wins at the NCAA championship, dominating wins/records, and year's best times would be secondary criteria. For me, 5 wins and no losses for Ledecky outweighs 4 wins, a second, and a third that Manuel and Baker had. When you include the records and the dominance of the records, there isn't a question as to who should be Swimmer of the Year.
[By the way, that Swimming World Magazine article was about Baker, and doesn't mention the Swimmer of the Year award.]
From what the swimmers say in the video interviews (and, the only way to run a team), the swimmers don't choose the events, the coach does. I think in each event, Stanford had the top two swimmers at the time the entries went in. Each event would have been Katie's only event of the day. If I were coach, I might think that tapering Katie for the 200 Free fits with her other events, and in particular, two relays (800 FR, 400 FR). Tapering her for the 400 IM would have introduced other strokes that might have been a bit distracting.
I noticed that Simone came away from the meet with the same hardware as Kathleen Baker: 4 firsts (50 & 100 Fr, 400FR, 800 FR), 1 second (200 FR), 1 third (200 MR). A bit surprising to me is that she didn't swim the 400 MR (Stanford won by more than a second, so maybe Meehan wanted to reward Lia with this pretty sure win).  Katie Ledecky had 5 firsts, winning every event she swam.
I can't imagine the voters for the Swimmer of the Year award would use the stroke as a basis for choosing one swimmer over another. The CSCAA doesn't have criteria for the award on their site. I would have thought that being the best swimmer was the primary criteria. NCAA records, wins at the NCAA championship, dominating wins/records, and year's best times would be secondary criteria. For me, 5 wins and no losses for Ledecky outweighs 4 wins, a second, and a third that Manuel and Baker had. When you include the records and the dominance of the records, there isn't a question as to who should be Swimmer of the Year.
[By the way, that Swimming World Magazine article was about Baker, and doesn't mention the Swimmer of the Year award.]
03-19-2017, 08:11 PM
(03-19-2017, 07:08 PM)MT link Wrote:[By the way, that Swimming World Magazine article was about Baker, and doesn't mention the Swimmer of the Year award.]
I assumed the reference to "swimmer of the meet honors" as being to the "Swimmer of the Year." The arguments for the honor were the same as were made in other articles that clearly referred to "Swimmer of the Year."
(03-19-2017, 07:08 PM)MT link Wrote:[By the way, that Swimming World Magazine article was about Baker, and doesn't mention the Swimmer of the Year award.]
I assumed the reference to "swimmer of the meet honors" as being to the "Swimmer of the Year." The arguments for the honor were the same as were made in other articles that clearly referred to "Swimmer of the Year."
(03-19-2017, 04:46 PM)Langdude link Wrote:I wonder ... do you think that voters valued Baker as an all-arounder at NCAAs (IM and back champ, on free relays) over Katie who swam one stroke at NCAAs? I, too, question the choice of Baker. But I wonder if the fact that Katie was a freestyler (and, I might add, the best all-around freestyler in the world, male or female) at NCAAs is the reason why. Not arguing. Just wondering.
I clearly cannot read the minds of those who voted for swimmer of the meet (or year), but my own thought was that there might be some Ledecky fatigue; she has won so many things in so many places that there was an idea to look for someone else to honour if the situation were close. I also got the impression that the brobdingnagian improvements that Baker made over last year's NCAAs may have played a role.
It was certainly strange that the author of the Swimming World article decided to emphasize why Baker deserved the swimmer of the meet over Howe, Manuel, and King given that the award clearly came down to King or Ledecky - and the guy didn't apparently notice that Ledecky was there. Still, his key statement was nominally true and probably the best argument one could make for Baker edging Ledecky,
Quote:no one besides Baker won three individual events outright.
(03-19-2017, 04:46 PM)Langdude link Wrote:I wonder ... do you think that voters valued Baker as an all-arounder at NCAAs (IM and back champ, on free relays) over Katie who swam one stroke at NCAAs? I, too, question the choice of Baker. But I wonder if the fact that Katie was a freestyler (and, I might add, the best all-around freestyler in the world, male or female) at NCAAs is the reason why. Not arguing. Just wondering.
I clearly cannot read the minds of those who voted for swimmer of the meet (or year), but my own thought was that there might be some Ledecky fatigue; she has won so many things in so many places that there was an idea to look for someone else to honour if the situation were close. I also got the impression that the brobdingnagian improvements that Baker made over last year's NCAAs may have played a role.
It was certainly strange that the author of the Swimming World article decided to emphasize why Baker deserved the swimmer of the meet over Howe, Manuel, and King given that the award clearly came down to King or Ledecky - and the guy didn't apparently notice that Ledecky was there. Still, his key statement was nominally true and probably the best argument one could make for Baker edging Ledecky,
Quote:no one besides Baker won three individual events outright.
03-20-2017, 09:34 AM
I suspect that if you asked Katie whether she'd rather have swimmer of the meet or the national championship, the way things worked out is exactly the way she'd want it.
03-20-2017, 01:03 PM
Katie has hardware that far outshines NCAA-level medals :)Â And there's more to come, I hope!
03-20-2017, 01:36 PM
(03-19-2017, 10:47 AM)Boston Card link Wrote:So any chance we catch up *this year*? Do we have some good chances coming up? WWP maybe?
Maybe *this week*.
The Synchronized Swimming team is hoping to repeat at the National Collegiate Championships this week.
 http://www.gostanford.com/news/2017/1/20...lunge.aspx
I know virtually nothing about the sport, but it sure looks like they could win. I see an Ohio State article about their winning their 29th US Collegiate National Championship in 2015. Stanford won in 2016 and have beaten Ohio State this year. Seems like a good possibility. Since it isn't a NCAA championship, I don't know whether it counts in various lists of championships.
(In another sport I know nothing about, Stanford is sending 9 fencers to nationals this week. I do see similar numbers of fencers (up to 12) from other schools going.)
(03-19-2017, 10:47 AM)Boston Card link Wrote:So any chance we catch up *this year*? Do we have some good chances coming up? WWP maybe?
Maybe *this week*.
The Synchronized Swimming team is hoping to repeat at the National Collegiate Championships this week.
 http://www.gostanford.com/news/2017/1/20...lunge.aspx
I know virtually nothing about the sport, but it sure looks like they could win. I see an Ohio State article about their winning their 29th US Collegiate National Championship in 2015. Stanford won in 2016 and have beaten Ohio State this year. Seems like a good possibility. Since it isn't a NCAA championship, I don't know whether it counts in various lists of championships.
(In another sport I know nothing about, Stanford is sending 9 fencers to nationals this week. I do see similar numbers of fencers (up to 12) from other schools going.)
03-29-2017, 05:52 PM
Thought I'd add this video of some youngsters....
 https://youtu.be/OV_vvcvps7g
You might recognize a couple or more.
(From USASwimming)
 https://youtu.be/OV_vvcvps7g
You might recognize a couple or more.
(From USASwimming)
Thought I'd add this video of some youngsters....
 https://youtu.be/OV_vvcvps7g
You might recognize a couple or more.
(From USASwimming)
 https://youtu.be/OV_vvcvps7g
You might recognize a couple or more.
(From USASwimming)
04-03-2017, 06:09 PM
I ran across this today, written as a guest article and published at SwimSwam about a week ago.
"Why Feminists Should Be Excited About Stanford" by Toni Armstrong. Both she & her husband are(or recently were?) Stanford employees.Â
She states her experience as a swim coach (in the past), in which she's been exposed to male-dominated field that she felt was suppressing (my words) female coaches. In very close contact with the Stanford team, she has been impressed with how it is run, expanding about these 5 features:
1. Associate Head Coach Slusser was Hired While 6 Months Pregnant
2. Slusser Proves that Motherhood and Career Success are not Mutually Exclusive
3. Mentoring Female Coaches is the Norm
4. Team Culture of Strong and Independent Women
5. Meehan Demonstrates that Family and Work Balance is not Gender Specific
"Why Feminists Should Be Excited About Stanford" by Toni Armstrong. Both she & her husband are(or recently were?) Stanford employees.Â
She states her experience as a swim coach (in the past), in which she's been exposed to male-dominated field that she felt was suppressing (my words) female coaches. In very close contact with the Stanford team, she has been impressed with how it is run, expanding about these 5 features:
1. Associate Head Coach Slusser was Hired While 6 Months Pregnant
2. Slusser Proves that Motherhood and Career Success are not Mutually Exclusive
3. Mentoring Female Coaches is the Norm
4. Team Culture of Strong and Independent Women
5. Meehan Demonstrates that Family and Work Balance is not Gender Specific
I ran across this today, written as a guest article and published at SwimSwam about a week ago.
"Why Feminists Should Be Excited About Stanford" by Toni Armstrong. Both she & her husband are(or recently were?) Stanford employees.Â
She states her experience as a swim coach (in the past), in which she's been exposed to male-dominated field that she felt was suppressing (my words) female coaches. In very close contact with the Stanford team, she has been impressed with how it is run, expanding about these 5 features:
1. Associate Head Coach Slusser was Hired While 6 Months Pregnant
2. Slusser Proves that Motherhood and Career Success are not Mutually Exclusive
3. Mentoring Female Coaches is the Norm
4. Team Culture of Strong and Independent Women
5. Meehan Demonstrates that Family and Work Balance is not Gender Specific
"Why Feminists Should Be Excited About Stanford" by Toni Armstrong. Both she & her husband are(or recently were?) Stanford employees.Â
She states her experience as a swim coach (in the past), in which she's been exposed to male-dominated field that she felt was suppressing (my words) female coaches. In very close contact with the Stanford team, she has been impressed with how it is run, expanding about these 5 features:
1. Associate Head Coach Slusser was Hired While 6 Months Pregnant
2. Slusser Proves that Motherhood and Career Success are not Mutually Exclusive
3. Mentoring Female Coaches is the Norm
4. Team Culture of Strong and Independent Women
5. Meehan Demonstrates that Family and Work Balance is not Gender Specific
04-04-2017, 02:25 PM
(04-03-2017, 06:09 PM)MT link Wrote:I ran across this today, written as a guest article and published at SwimSwam about a week ago.
"Why Feminists Should Be Excited About Stanford" by Toni Armstrong. Both she & her husband are(or recently were?) Stanford employees.Â
There is some irony with this article given that the head coach of the women's team is male and there has been considerable publicity just lately on the diminishing numbers of female head coaches for women's teams in recent years - highlighted by basketball.
I think this NY Times article featuring Tara was discussed on this board.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/30/sport....html?_r=0
Part of what this shows is that the key issues are more complicated than simply the gender of the head coach.
(04-03-2017, 06:09 PM)MT link Wrote:I ran across this today, written as a guest article and published at SwimSwam about a week ago.
"Why Feminists Should Be Excited About Stanford" by Toni Armstrong. Both she & her husband are(or recently were?) Stanford employees.Â
There is some irony with this article given that the head coach of the women's team is male and there has been considerable publicity just lately on the diminishing numbers of female head coaches for women's teams in recent years - highlighted by basketball.
I think this NY Times article featuring Tara was discussed on this board.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/30/sport....html?_r=0
Part of what this shows is that the key issues are more complicated than simply the gender of the head coach.
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