[Roberton3]

[quote author=Roberton3 link=topic=13558.msg140574#msg140574 date=1447089748]And for blood lead levels, the main thing that matters is living in badly maintained old housing -- which basically means being poor in an older urban area, and that's strongly correlated with being a minority (and that might be because of current racism, or because of past racism, or for any number of other reasons).  So none of these examples are proof (or even solid evidence) of racism, either institutional or by individuals.

Of course, that doesn't prove there isn't racism, either.  Getting solid evidence one way or the other is really hard.  But claiming that unequal outcomes prove the existence of racism is not helpful.

You should probably do some reading on the history of racial discrimination in housing in the US.  The fact that many minority neighborhoods are in poor urban areas is not a coincidence.  Start here: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arch...ns/361631/
[/quote]

Well, that was an unnecessarily condescending response.  I've read the piece you linked, and a whole bunch of other writing on this issue.  And I certainly didn't claim that racial patterns in housing are a coincidence (indeed, I said almost the exact opposite: "that might be because of current racism, or because of past racism, or for any number of other reasons").  There's no question that housing policies in the past were explicitly (and reprehensibly) racist.  But that in no way contradicts the point I was trying to make, which is that present-day disparities by themselves do not prove the existence of present-day racism.

Just to be clear, I'm not arguing that racism is dead, or anything like that.  It just really bothers me when people oversimplify a complex issue and insult anyone who dares disagree with them.

[Roberton3]

[quote author=Roberton3 link=topic=13558.msg140574#msg140574 date=1447089748]And for blood lead levels, the main thing that matters is living in badly maintained old housing -- which basically means being poor in an older urban area, and that's strongly correlated with being a minority (and that might be because of current racism, or because of past racism, or for any number of other reasons).  So none of these examples are proof (or even solid evidence) of racism, either institutional or by individuals.

Of course, that doesn't prove there isn't racism, either.  Getting solid evidence one way or the other is really hard.  But claiming that unequal outcomes prove the existence of racism is not helpful.

You should probably do some reading on the history of racial discrimination in housing in the US.  The fact that many minority neighborhoods are in poor urban areas is not a coincidence.  Start here: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arch...ns/361631/
[/quote]

Well, that was an unnecessarily condescending response.  I've read the piece you linked, and a whole bunch of other writing on this issue.  And I certainly didn't claim that racial patterns in housing are a coincidence (indeed, I said almost the exact opposite: "that might be because of current racism, or because of past racism, or for any number of other reasons").  There's no question that housing policies in the past were explicitly (and reprehensibly) racist.  But that in no way contradicts the point I was trying to make, which is that present-day disparities by themselves do not prove the existence of present-day racism.

Just to be clear, I'm not arguing that racism is dead, or anything like that.  It just really bothers me when people oversimplify a complex issue and insult anyone who dares disagree with them.