[Mick]

Even as an unabashed Shaw supporter I have to admit the points number is skewed on part by rule and style changes. There are more points now. What I’d be curious to see Mick is where Stanford’s defenses these last 7 years fall historically. Keeping the same thought in mind re the changed game.


[quote author=Mick link=topic=18293.msg217654#msg217654 date=1512856314]
[quote author=Boston Card link=topic=18293.msg217615#msg217615 date=1512804208]
Last point.  The 2001 (35.2) and 1999 (34.8 ppg) offenses would rank 3rd and 4th had they been David Shaw's seasons, behind 2015 (37.7 ppg) and 2010 (40.3 ppg); and those were Willingham's two best seasons.

Some other points:
1)  Most points given up in a season, 1993's team coached by Bill Walsh gave up 389 points.  His 1994 team gave up 359 points, fifth most in Stanford history.
2)  Amazing to me that the 1999 team got into the Rose Bowl having given up the 4th most points in Stanford's history.
3)  Willingham had a strong defense in 1996, only giving up 229 points.  The rest of his defenses were among the worst in Stanford's history, including #4 (1998, 365 pts), #5 (1999, 364), #8 (2001, 339), #13 (1997, 317), #16 (1995, 307), #18 (2000, 294).  Of the 121 seasons, TW had six of the worst defenses.  But he beat Ca.l every year, so...
4)  Shaw has all five of the top five most points in a season, three as HC (11, 13, 15), two as OC. (09, 10).
[/quote]
[/quote]

Tough call.  If you're talking about the modern-ish era, John Ralston's 1971 team gave up just 11.3 ppg, the best from any team after 1950.  The first half of last century were either low scoring affairs, or great defenses.

Walsh's 10-3 1992 team gave up 15.1 ppg.  Jack Elway's 1986 team gave up 15.9 ppg.  Shaw's 2014 defense gave up 213 points or 16.4 ppg, the third-best of any team after 1971 and the best of any team after 1992.  Intriguingly, that was Shaw's 8-5 team, the worst percentage winner had the best defense.  Shaw's 2012 team was right behind at 17.2 ppg, then Harbaugh's 2010 team which was also 17.2 ppg.

Let's look at it this way.  What is the point scoring differential on a per-game basis?  Shaw tends to be conservative at game end, so that probably restricts him.  Here's the scoop:

Aside from teams in the first half of last century, Shaw has five of the top eight differential seasons, and Harbaugh has one of the remaining three.  the other two were Ralston in 1969 and 1970.  Ralston had four of the top ten, Elway was #13, #15 and #17.  But Harbaugh, Elway and Ralston had their share of clinkers in the bottom half of the list.  The thing that amazes me about Shaw is that he has coached six complete seasons, and five of those six are in the top eight in scoring differential, another was Harbaugh's last season.  Even Shaw's clinker year -- last year -- was a terrific year.  And this year, 2017 isn't listed, but it would be Top 10 for Shaw, right between Ralston's #9 and #10 ratings.

Let's face it folks, our coach is probably a college football hall of fame coach, right up there with the other five.

Here's the list, post-1950.  I've highlighted Harbaugh and Shaw:

2010 Jim Harbaugh 22.9
2011 David Shaw 21.2
1969 John Ralston 17.7
2015 David Shaw 15.2
2013 David Shaw 13.3
1970 John Ralston 11.4
2014 David Shaw 10.8
2012 David Shaw 10.6
1968 John Ralston 10.6
1971 John Ralston 10.5
1991 Dennis Green 10.2
1953 Charles A. Taylor 9.8
1992 Bill Walsh 9.5
2009 Jim Harbaugh 8.9
1978 Bill Walsh 8.8
1972 Jack Christiansen 7.5
1986 Jack Elway 7.3
2001 Tyrone Willingham 6.9
1957 Charles A. Taylor 6.9
1950 Marchmont Schwartz 6.5
1955 Charles A. Taylor 6.3
2016 David Shaw 5.9
1999 Tyrone Willingham 4.5
1951 Charles A. Taylor 4.4
1975 Jack Christiansen 3.9
1980 Paul Wiggin 3.4
1995 Tyrone Willingham 3.1
1981 Paul Wiggin 3.0
1982 Paul Wiggin 2.8
1988 Jack Elway 2.0
1979 Rod Dowhower 1.8
1996 Tyrone Willingham 1.5
1964 John Ralston 1.2
2004 Buddy Teevens 0.8
1956 Charles A. Taylor 0.5
1977 Bill Walsh 0.5
1973 Jack Christiansen 0.4
1966 John Ralston 0.3
1965 John Ralston -0.5
1987 Jack Elway -0.5
2008 Jim Harbaugh -1.2
1990 Dennis Green -1.9
1967 John Ralston -2.2
1974 Jack Christiansen -2.8
1959 Jack C. Curtice -2.9
1994 Bill Walsh -2.9
2000 Tyrone Willingham -3.0
1984 Jack Elway -3.6
1997 Tyrone Willingham -3.7
1952 Charles A. Taylor -3.9
1976 Jack Christiansen -4.1
1963 John Ralston -4.5
1962 Jack C. Curtice -5.0
1961 Jack C. Curtice -5.8
1985 Jack Elway -6.2
2005 Walt Harris -6.2
1989 Dennis Green -6.5
2007 Jim Harbaugh -8.7
1993 Bill Walsh -8.9
1998 Tyrone Willingham -9.5
1954 Charles A. Taylor -10.6
1983 Paul Wiggin -12.2
2003 Buddy Teevens -12.5
1958 Jack C. Curtice -13.3
2002 Buddy Teevens -13.8
1960 Jack C. Curtice -14.3
2006 Walt Harris -20.8

[Mick]

Even as an unabashed Shaw supporter I have to admit the points number is skewed on part by rule and style changes. There are more points now. What I’d be curious to see Mick is where Stanford’s defenses these last 7 years fall historically. Keeping the same thought in mind re the changed game.


[quote author=Mick link=topic=18293.msg217654#msg217654 date=1512856314]
[quote author=Boston Card link=topic=18293.msg217615#msg217615 date=1512804208]
Last point.  The 2001 (35.2) and 1999 (34.8 ppg) offenses would rank 3rd and 4th had they been David Shaw's seasons, behind 2015 (37.7 ppg) and 2010 (40.3 ppg); and those were Willingham's two best seasons.

Some other points:
1)  Most points given up in a season, 1993's team coached by Bill Walsh gave up 389 points.  His 1994 team gave up 359 points, fifth most in Stanford history.
2)  Amazing to me that the 1999 team got into the Rose Bowl having given up the 4th most points in Stanford's history.
3)  Willingham had a strong defense in 1996, only giving up 229 points.  The rest of his defenses were among the worst in Stanford's history, including #4 (1998, 365 pts), #5 (1999, 364), #8 (2001, 339), #13 (1997, 317), #16 (1995, 307), #18 (2000, 294).  Of the 121 seasons, TW had six of the worst defenses.  But he beat Ca.l every year, so...
4)  Shaw has all five of the top five most points in a season, three as HC (11, 13, 15), two as OC. (09, 10).
[/quote]
[/quote]

Tough call.  If you're talking about the modern-ish era, John Ralston's 1971 team gave up just 11.3 ppg, the best from any team after 1950.  The first half of last century were either low scoring affairs, or great defenses.

Walsh's 10-3 1992 team gave up 15.1 ppg.  Jack Elway's 1986 team gave up 15.9 ppg.  Shaw's 2014 defense gave up 213 points or 16.4 ppg, the third-best of any team after 1971 and the best of any team after 1992.  Intriguingly, that was Shaw's 8-5 team, the worst percentage winner had the best defense.  Shaw's 2012 team was right behind at 17.2 ppg, then Harbaugh's 2010 team which was also 17.2 ppg.

Let's look at it this way.  What is the point scoring differential on a per-game basis?  Shaw tends to be conservative at game end, so that probably restricts him.  Here's the scoop:

Aside from teams in the first half of last century, Shaw has five of the top eight differential seasons, and Harbaugh has one of the remaining three.  the other two were Ralston in 1969 and 1970.  Ralston had four of the top ten, Elway was #13, #15 and #17.  But Harbaugh, Elway and Ralston had their share of clinkers in the bottom half of the list.  The thing that amazes me about Shaw is that he has coached six complete seasons, and five of those six are in the top eight in scoring differential, another was Harbaugh's last season.  Even Shaw's clinker year -- last year -- was a terrific year.  And this year, 2017 isn't listed, but it would be Top 10 for Shaw, right between Ralston's #9 and #10 ratings.

Let's face it folks, our coach is probably a college football hall of fame coach, right up there with the other five.

Here's the list, post-1950.  I've highlighted Harbaugh and Shaw:

2010 Jim Harbaugh 22.9
2011 David Shaw 21.2
1969 John Ralston 17.7
2015 David Shaw 15.2
2013 David Shaw 13.3
1970 John Ralston 11.4
2014 David Shaw 10.8
2012 David Shaw 10.6
1968 John Ralston 10.6
1971 John Ralston 10.5
1991 Dennis Green 10.2
1953 Charles A. Taylor 9.8
1992 Bill Walsh 9.5
2009 Jim Harbaugh 8.9
1978 Bill Walsh 8.8
1972 Jack Christiansen 7.5
1986 Jack Elway 7.3
2001 Tyrone Willingham 6.9
1957 Charles A. Taylor 6.9
1950 Marchmont Schwartz 6.5
1955 Charles A. Taylor 6.3
2016 David Shaw 5.9
1999 Tyrone Willingham 4.5
1951 Charles A. Taylor 4.4
1975 Jack Christiansen 3.9
1980 Paul Wiggin 3.4
1995 Tyrone Willingham 3.1
1981 Paul Wiggin 3.0
1982 Paul Wiggin 2.8
1988 Jack Elway 2.0
1979 Rod Dowhower 1.8
1996 Tyrone Willingham 1.5
1964 John Ralston 1.2
2004 Buddy Teevens 0.8
1956 Charles A. Taylor 0.5
1977 Bill Walsh 0.5
1973 Jack Christiansen 0.4
1966 John Ralston 0.3
1965 John Ralston -0.5
1987 Jack Elway -0.5
2008 Jim Harbaugh -1.2
1990 Dennis Green -1.9
1967 John Ralston -2.2
1974 Jack Christiansen -2.8
1959 Jack C. Curtice -2.9
1994 Bill Walsh -2.9
2000 Tyrone Willingham -3.0
1984 Jack Elway -3.6
1997 Tyrone Willingham -3.7
1952 Charles A. Taylor -3.9
1976 Jack Christiansen -4.1
1963 John Ralston -4.5
1962 Jack C. Curtice -5.0
1961 Jack C. Curtice -5.8
1985 Jack Elway -6.2
2005 Walt Harris -6.2
1989 Dennis Green -6.5
2007 Jim Harbaugh -8.7
1993 Bill Walsh -8.9
1998 Tyrone Willingham -9.5
1954 Charles A. Taylor -10.6
1983 Paul Wiggin -12.2
2003 Buddy Teevens -12.5
1958 Jack C. Curtice -13.3
2002 Buddy Teevens -13.8
1960 Jack C. Curtice -14.3
2006 Walt Harris -20.8