[Mick]

[quote author=oldalum link=topic=18281.msg217985#msg217985 date=1513037905]
[quote author=76lsjumb link=topic=18281.msg217951#msg217951 date=1513028883]
While I, too, noticed the, er, ... aggressive... use of megaphones by the UT cheerleaders and band [especially], I'm not exactly sure why folks appear so bent out of shape by that.  . . .  Empirically . . . we did better under megaphone pressure than otherwise.

Sorry, but IMO this proves nothing. Our servers may not have served as aggressively in set 2 because of the noise in their ears. They may have been more warmed up and had better feel for the ball in set 2 than set 1 or 3 because of the lack of down time before the set started. The sample and effect sizes are too small to draw any conclusions. I did not see the cheerleaders yelling at our serve receivers, but if they did they were further away than our servers were from them, so I wouldn't expect an effect.

More important, in judging whether it is acceptable for the cheerleaders to do what they did, to me it's irrelevant whether the megaphone yelling had a discernible effect on our players, positive or negative. It's an attempt to gain an advantage in a way that is prohibited by the rules and therefore shouldn't be done. The ends--positive or negative--don't excuse or justify the means. Megaphones, small or large, are an artificial amplification device and are intended for cheerleaders to be heard by the crowd, not to raise the volume level directed in the ear of the athletes.

No apologies for being displeased with poor sportsmanship and rule breaking in competitive sports, where fair play should be the norm. No, it's not the end of the world, but few things discussed on this board are! It's just a game, but the athletes and many fans try to take the game seriously. "respect the game, respect the opponent, respect the officials"
[/quote]

I have no desire whatsoever to get into an argument over this or to support bad sportsmanship or anything like that.  I was just sort of looking at it empirically and observing that I don't think it hurt our play at all and may even have helped it.  Along the same lines, I'm interested in whether you think stone silence -- which is quite often the situation at Maples when our servers are serving, and certainly was in the match against Wisconsin, for example -- makes it easier or harder on the server?  I'd argue that, if anything, it makes it harder [but readily admit that is just my feeling].

Also, I will confess to yelling "sideout" quite often when the opposing server is preparing to serve [often using my hands as a sort of "megaphone].  Do you consider that to be bad form/poor sportsmanship?  What about the Band yelling "bounce, bounce, bounce..."?  My feeling is that those are the things that create "home court advantage" and are why [especially in wvb] so much of a premium is put on getting a top four seed.  I went to the Pac-12/B1G tournament at Univ. of Illinois earlier this year, and, believe me, the noise level and yelling directed at our team during the Illinois match was way louder than the UT band and cheerleaders, even with their megaphones.

Moreover, if a school is willing to support its team enough to send along its band and cheerleaders to a distant regional, it seems to me their purpose is to do what they can [definitely within the rules, of course] to mitigate that home court advantage.  Fortunately, I believe the LSJUMB Red Vest Band is going to Kansas City for the Final Four.  FWIW, I hope they make some noise...

One final thought:  Since these competitions are always crawling with NCAA competition management personnel [I'm sure you saw all the people with credentials, earphones, suits, etc.], I've got to believe that the possession and use of those megaphones was sanctioned by the powers that be.
[/quote]

Question for you, 76 and OldAlum.  Imagine a reasonably competitive basketball game of 7th and 8th graders.  Not AAU, but not gym class either.  One team is down by one point, two seconds left in the game.  Gym is silent.  The team that is behind has two free throws to tie, win or lose the game.  As the shooter goes into his motion, a parent from the other team yells "Miss!"

Poor sportsmanship, or just getting an advantage over the other team?

[Mick]

[quote author=oldalum link=topic=18281.msg217985#msg217985 date=1513037905]
[quote author=76lsjumb link=topic=18281.msg217951#msg217951 date=1513028883]
While I, too, noticed the, er, ... aggressive... use of megaphones by the UT cheerleaders and band [especially], I'm not exactly sure why folks appear so bent out of shape by that.  . . .  Empirically . . . we did better under megaphone pressure than otherwise.

Sorry, but IMO this proves nothing. Our servers may not have served as aggressively in set 2 because of the noise in their ears. They may have been more warmed up and had better feel for the ball in set 2 than set 1 or 3 because of the lack of down time before the set started. The sample and effect sizes are too small to draw any conclusions. I did not see the cheerleaders yelling at our serve receivers, but if they did they were further away than our servers were from them, so I wouldn't expect an effect.

More important, in judging whether it is acceptable for the cheerleaders to do what they did, to me it's irrelevant whether the megaphone yelling had a discernible effect on our players, positive or negative. It's an attempt to gain an advantage in a way that is prohibited by the rules and therefore shouldn't be done. The ends--positive or negative--don't excuse or justify the means. Megaphones, small or large, are an artificial amplification device and are intended for cheerleaders to be heard by the crowd, not to raise the volume level directed in the ear of the athletes.

No apologies for being displeased with poor sportsmanship and rule breaking in competitive sports, where fair play should be the norm. No, it's not the end of the world, but few things discussed on this board are! It's just a game, but the athletes and many fans try to take the game seriously. "respect the game, respect the opponent, respect the officials"
[/quote]

I have no desire whatsoever to get into an argument over this or to support bad sportsmanship or anything like that.  I was just sort of looking at it empirically and observing that I don't think it hurt our play at all and may even have helped it.  Along the same lines, I'm interested in whether you think stone silence -- which is quite often the situation at Maples when our servers are serving, and certainly was in the match against Wisconsin, for example -- makes it easier or harder on the server?  I'd argue that, if anything, it makes it harder [but readily admit that is just my feeling].

Also, I will confess to yelling "sideout" quite often when the opposing server is preparing to serve [often using my hands as a sort of "megaphone].  Do you consider that to be bad form/poor sportsmanship?  What about the Band yelling "bounce, bounce, bounce..."?  My feeling is that those are the things that create "home court advantage" and are why [especially in wvb] so much of a premium is put on getting a top four seed.  I went to the Pac-12/B1G tournament at Univ. of Illinois earlier this year, and, believe me, the noise level and yelling directed at our team during the Illinois match was way louder than the UT band and cheerleaders, even with their megaphones.

Moreover, if a school is willing to support its team enough to send along its band and cheerleaders to a distant regional, it seems to me their purpose is to do what they can [definitely within the rules, of course] to mitigate that home court advantage.  Fortunately, I believe the LSJUMB Red Vest Band is going to Kansas City for the Final Four.  FWIW, I hope they make some noise...

One final thought:  Since these competitions are always crawling with NCAA competition management personnel [I'm sure you saw all the people with credentials, earphones, suits, etc.], I've got to believe that the possession and use of those megaphones was sanctioned by the powers that be.
[/quote]

Question for you, 76 and OldAlum.  Imagine a reasonably competitive basketball game of 7th and 8th graders.  Not AAU, but not gym class either.  One team is down by one point, two seconds left in the game.  Gym is silent.  The team that is behind has two free throws to tie, win or lose the game.  As the shooter goes into his motion, a parent from the other team yells "Miss!"

Poor sportsmanship, or just getting an advantage over the other team?