[cardcrimson]

You don't have to be convinced, and I don't mean to say this to convince you either; but here's where your take and mine differ: if Saban and Shaw were to swap seats and then to continue working under the counterpart's current circumstances and limitations, Saban would outperform Shaw.

No,  I don't agree with this. I simply don't buy into all the Saban adulation.

Nick Saban reminds me of another coach who had a parallel path in life -- Gene Stallings. Gene Stallings was a player at Texas A&M, then a successful college coach, then a coach in the NFL. And he was a failure in the NFL. He had a losing record. The Cardinals did so poorly they got moved to Arizona. Afterwards, Gene Stallings returned to Alabama, where he led them to an undefeated and impressive national championship.

Gene Stallings was a very successful college coach at Alabama, but was he some kind of super-wizard of football coaching who could have enjoyed success at any team, under any circumstance, at any level? No. He was a great -- and the right -- coach at Alabama (oh, until their cheating cost Alabama a bunch of scholarships, ineligibility to play in bowl games, and forfeited wins...)

Nick Saban, people may know, also had unsuccessful tours in the NFL. He was a defensive coordinator for the Browns, where had a losing record, then later after head coaching success in college [YOU MEAN LIKE WINNING THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP AT LSU?], he became the head coach for the Dolphins for two years, where he also had a losing record. When he left Miami, he admitted he had achieved some wisdom that he's better suited for certain places like being a college coach.

So no, Nick Saban is not some kind of super-coach who could inherit any circumstance, any kind of constraints, any kind of community, and succeed there. 

The reality of being a coach in the Bay Area is that you live in an area where you have competition from so many championship professional teams and probably the most-envied technology in the world. 

The reality of being a coach at Stanford (or Northwestern, and other schools) is that you can't just recruit a player based on what he does on the field. He *has* to qualify for the admissions level for an athlete, which is an incredibly high bar. I think very few coaches could deal with this and work with it instead of fighting it. 

This season has demonstrated another unique constraint for being at Stanford. You have a conference that pushed back the start of the season, and two All Americans forgo the season, which you accept with grace and your best wishes. You live in a county that didn't permit your team to meet and practice, so you had to bus to a nearby high school in the next county to start practicing. Then that same county said no sports could continue, so after a road game, you have to stay on the road for 3 weeks. Living in hotels. No access to your world-class campus. They patched together high schools where they could practice, and had the final session before the Washington game in a nearby park. Have you seen that photo? It is almost comical. So for now their 4th week they are banished from their campus, living in hotels, scrambling to find places to practice.

How many coaches could have strung together those 3 weeks of road wins, starting with taking back The Axe? The team has had high school level facilities playing against teams with all their Power 5 Teams home resources the past 3 weeks. Do you assume Saban could have managed that? I don't know if any other coach could have accomplished this.

Of course, whenever I get excited about the team they go and get blown out, so now I've probably jinxed tomorrow. But for the last 3 games and preparing for UCLA, I really don't think many if any other coaches could have handled the challenges as well as Coach Shaw has, and I know of no other group of student athletes could have adapted and fought they way the Cardinal have.

---

Fine, don't buy into the Saban adulation. Yes, he sucked at the Dolphins. Belichick sucked at the Browns. Carroll sucked at the Jets.

While I don't particularly care for the three, one has to respect what they've accomplished.

And for what it's worth, it appears others might disagree with your assessment of Saban. From wikipedia:


"With His Sixth National Title, Nick Saban Is The Greatest College Football Coach Ever". forbes.com.

"The debate is truly over: Why Nick Saban is the greatest coach of all time". CBSSports.com. Retrieved July 11, 2018.

"Analysis | Nick Saban is the top college football coach of all time". Washington Post. Retrieved July 11, 2018.

[cardcrimson]

You don't have to be convinced, and I don't mean to say this to convince you either; but here's where your take and mine differ: if Saban and Shaw were to swap seats and then to continue working under the counterpart's current circumstances and limitations, Saban would outperform Shaw.

No,  I don't agree with this. I simply don't buy into all the Saban adulation.

Nick Saban reminds me of another coach who had a parallel path in life -- Gene Stallings. Gene Stallings was a player at Texas A&M, then a successful college coach, then a coach in the NFL. And he was a failure in the NFL. He had a losing record. The Cardinals did so poorly they got moved to Arizona. Afterwards, Gene Stallings returned to Alabama, where he led them to an undefeated and impressive national championship.

Gene Stallings was a very successful college coach at Alabama, but was he some kind of super-wizard of football coaching who could have enjoyed success at any team, under any circumstance, at any level? No. He was a great -- and the right -- coach at Alabama (oh, until their cheating cost Alabama a bunch of scholarships, ineligibility to play in bowl games, and forfeited wins...)

Nick Saban, people may know, also had unsuccessful tours in the NFL. He was a defensive coordinator for the Browns, where had a losing record, then later after head coaching success in college [YOU MEAN LIKE WINNING THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP AT LSU?], he became the head coach for the Dolphins for two years, where he also had a losing record. When he left Miami, he admitted he had achieved some wisdom that he's better suited for certain places like being a college coach.

So no, Nick Saban is not some kind of super-coach who could inherit any circumstance, any kind of constraints, any kind of community, and succeed there. 

The reality of being a coach in the Bay Area is that you live in an area where you have competition from so many championship professional teams and probably the most-envied technology in the world. 

The reality of being a coach at Stanford (or Northwestern, and other schools) is that you can't just recruit a player based on what he does on the field. He *has* to qualify for the admissions level for an athlete, which is an incredibly high bar. I think very few coaches could deal with this and work with it instead of fighting it. 

This season has demonstrated another unique constraint for being at Stanford. You have a conference that pushed back the start of the season, and two All Americans forgo the season, which you accept with grace and your best wishes. You live in a county that didn't permit your team to meet and practice, so you had to bus to a nearby high school in the next county to start practicing. Then that same county said no sports could continue, so after a road game, you have to stay on the road for 3 weeks. Living in hotels. No access to your world-class campus. They patched together high schools where they could practice, and had the final session before the Washington game in a nearby park. Have you seen that photo? It is almost comical. So for now their 4th week they are banished from their campus, living in hotels, scrambling to find places to practice.

How many coaches could have strung together those 3 weeks of road wins, starting with taking back The Axe? The team has had high school level facilities playing against teams with all their Power 5 Teams home resources the past 3 weeks. Do you assume Saban could have managed that? I don't know if any other coach could have accomplished this.

Of course, whenever I get excited about the team they go and get blown out, so now I've probably jinxed tomorrow. But for the last 3 games and preparing for UCLA, I really don't think many if any other coaches could have handled the challenges as well as Coach Shaw has, and I know of no other group of student athletes could have adapted and fought they way the Cardinal have.

---

Fine, don't buy into the Saban adulation. Yes, he sucked at the Dolphins. Belichick sucked at the Browns. Carroll sucked at the Jets.

While I don't particularly care for the three, one has to respect what they've accomplished.

And for what it's worth, it appears others might disagree with your assessment of Saban. From wikipedia:


"With His Sixth National Title, Nick Saban Is The Greatest College Football Coach Ever". forbes.com.

"The debate is truly over: Why Nick Saban is the greatest coach of all time". CBSSports.com. Retrieved July 11, 2018.

"Analysis | Nick Saban is the top college football coach of all time". Washington Post. Retrieved July 11, 2018.