[lex24]

Thank you FullMetal. The reason why so many people are advocating for mental health professionals to work with people in crisis instead of the police is not because they are hiding in affluent suburbs disconnected from reality--it is because they know the risks of bringing a violence worker with a gun into a tense situation.

I will agree with you when you can point to a social worker department that responds to all 911 calls regarding domestic violence and has a track record of success. AFAIK, there isn't such a situation in existence. Also, FWIW, many of the social workers that work for the cities and counties do carry weapons. I think that psychology professionals and social workers can and do contribute greatly to society. The few that I know have told me that if asked to predict if a patient will be a danger to themselves or others, even after spending many hours with the patient, they have a range of confidence levels. In many cases they have been wrong. It is a tough business. IMHO, the idea that a mental health professional can go to any given domestic violence situation , defuse it, and reliably produce a good outcome is at best a situation not in evidence. That is also certainly true with police. However, the legislatures have decided, probably correctly, that the only way to be sure that nothing untoward happens after the "intervention" is over is that the aggressive parties have to be removed from the situation. At that point, mental health professionals certainly need to be involved in subsequently deciding how to proceed. However, I think the mental health professionals will tell you that they are not the ones to remove the aggressive parties. That isn't their specialty.

I am also left wondering if Sherman would have received more initial compassion on this board if he were not an outspoken Black man.

I think most of the people on this board tend to give Stanford athletes the benefit of the doubt. I think Richard Sherman is also kind of a "local favorite" because he is outspoken. It is also true that Richard Sherman has done a lot of things for the community, and he has done them without the "Hey, look at me." that lots of athletes associate with such activities. As far as compassion goes, I think the attitude on this board has been pretty balanced. Richard Sherman didn't attack anyone until the police arrived. His wife was obviously very concerned about Richard hurting himself, but she also said he was being aggressive. She wanted the police there, but obviously reluctantly. I think most of us on this board are just saddened by all this. Richard Sherman is pictured by all of us as a strong, outspoken, smart, capable Stanford guy. He exhibited very poor judgement in this situation, which detracts from the image we all want to have of him.

I obviously don't know what particular stress caused him to get drunk and behave irresponsibly. I can certainly theorize a bit though. He is facing the end of his career in the NFL. Nobody has beat a path to his door, despite how good he has been. It may be over. He is 33 years old. He isn't ready for it to be over, and certainly not ready for it to be over involuntarily. I am sure lots of his identity is tied up in being an NFL player. That is probably going to be taken from him. Independent of anything else, if I were in that situation, I would undoubtedly feel lots of angst. That may not be at all what caused him to do what he did, but it certainly can't be helping.

santa clara county still has a mobile emergency crisis team for mental health issues. daytime only currently, but when i worked at valley med center during my residency in the 70s, it was 24 hours. generally that team brought individuals in for evaluation more often than the police. seemed to work pretty well. it's my impression that they occasionally called the police in when they needed backup.

although it's true that the average social worker or psychologist isn't trained to handle an aggressive suicidal drunk, i'm not sure how that's relevant. we're talking about a specialty: professionals trained to handle - de-escalate if possible - mental health and substance crises. can be social workers, psychologists, psych techs, police or a combination. there are even a few communities where a dedicated team of police has special training in mental health issues. not the average social worker and not the average policeman with a gun and little or no training in mental health and de-escalation.

No question Social Workers have a role to play.  But admittedly I’m guessing here that the people you saw being brought in we’re not situations in which a 911 call had been placed by a family member indicating that there was a fight going on and somebody was threatening to kill themselves.

Domestic violence cases when they reach threat levels often involve weapons and unfortunately people are often badly injured or killed by the offender.  I truly don’t know how a social worker is equipped to walk into such a situation. (I’m talking generally here).

actually, most of the situations did involve someone threatening to kill themselves. it's the most common mental health emergency. yes, many involved fights. 

again, imo the issue is not whether the those intervening are social workers, psychologists, or police. imo what's found in the best situations is a team trained in crisis intervention / de-escalation in mental health / substance issues.

the team is well-trained to assess the potential for violence and to call the police as backup when needed (just as police call for backup).  but untrained police (or untrained social workers) are not the first responders.

Agree completely on the need for training.

[lex24]

Thank you FullMetal. The reason why so many people are advocating for mental health professionals to work with people in crisis instead of the police is not because they are hiding in affluent suburbs disconnected from reality--it is because they know the risks of bringing a violence worker with a gun into a tense situation.

I will agree with you when you can point to a social worker department that responds to all 911 calls regarding domestic violence and has a track record of success. AFAIK, there isn't such a situation in existence. Also, FWIW, many of the social workers that work for the cities and counties do carry weapons. I think that psychology professionals and social workers can and do contribute greatly to society. The few that I know have told me that if asked to predict if a patient will be a danger to themselves or others, even after spending many hours with the patient, they have a range of confidence levels. In many cases they have been wrong. It is a tough business. IMHO, the idea that a mental health professional can go to any given domestic violence situation , defuse it, and reliably produce a good outcome is at best a situation not in evidence. That is also certainly true with police. However, the legislatures have decided, probably correctly, that the only way to be sure that nothing untoward happens after the "intervention" is over is that the aggressive parties have to be removed from the situation. At that point, mental health professionals certainly need to be involved in subsequently deciding how to proceed. However, I think the mental health professionals will tell you that they are not the ones to remove the aggressive parties. That isn't their specialty.

I am also left wondering if Sherman would have received more initial compassion on this board if he were not an outspoken Black man.

I think most of the people on this board tend to give Stanford athletes the benefit of the doubt. I think Richard Sherman is also kind of a "local favorite" because he is outspoken. It is also true that Richard Sherman has done a lot of things for the community, and he has done them without the "Hey, look at me." that lots of athletes associate with such activities. As far as compassion goes, I think the attitude on this board has been pretty balanced. Richard Sherman didn't attack anyone until the police arrived. His wife was obviously very concerned about Richard hurting himself, but she also said he was being aggressive. She wanted the police there, but obviously reluctantly. I think most of us on this board are just saddened by all this. Richard Sherman is pictured by all of us as a strong, outspoken, smart, capable Stanford guy. He exhibited very poor judgement in this situation, which detracts from the image we all want to have of him.

I obviously don't know what particular stress caused him to get drunk and behave irresponsibly. I can certainly theorize a bit though. He is facing the end of his career in the NFL. Nobody has beat a path to his door, despite how good he has been. It may be over. He is 33 years old. He isn't ready for it to be over, and certainly not ready for it to be over involuntarily. I am sure lots of his identity is tied up in being an NFL player. That is probably going to be taken from him. Independent of anything else, if I were in that situation, I would undoubtedly feel lots of angst. That may not be at all what caused him to do what he did, but it certainly can't be helping.

santa clara county still has a mobile emergency crisis team for mental health issues. daytime only currently, but when i worked at valley med center during my residency in the 70s, it was 24 hours. generally that team brought individuals in for evaluation more often than the police. seemed to work pretty well. it's my impression that they occasionally called the police in when they needed backup.

although it's true that the average social worker or psychologist isn't trained to handle an aggressive suicidal drunk, i'm not sure how that's relevant. we're talking about a specialty: professionals trained to handle - de-escalate if possible - mental health and substance crises. can be social workers, psychologists, psych techs, police or a combination. there are even a few communities where a dedicated team of police has special training in mental health issues. not the average social worker and not the average policeman with a gun and little or no training in mental health and de-escalation.

No question Social Workers have a role to play.  But admittedly I’m guessing here that the people you saw being brought in we’re not situations in which a 911 call had been placed by a family member indicating that there was a fight going on and somebody was threatening to kill themselves.

Domestic violence cases when they reach threat levels often involve weapons and unfortunately people are often badly injured or killed by the offender.  I truly don’t know how a social worker is equipped to walk into such a situation. (I’m talking generally here).

actually, most of the situations did involve someone threatening to kill themselves. it's the most common mental health emergency. yes, many involved fights. 

again, imo the issue is not whether the those intervening are social workers, psychologists, or police. imo what's found in the best situations is a team trained in crisis intervention / de-escalation in mental health / substance issues.

the team is well-trained to assess the potential for violence and to call the police as backup when needed (just as police call for backup).  but untrained police (or untrained social workers) are not the first responders.

Agree completely on the need for training.