[Mick]

Can someone with more insider knowledge than me explain why we have struggled in MVB for such a long time? I feel like a lot of the same advantages that the water polos and men's gymnastics have with very few teams across the country, small athlete pool, history of good teams at Stanford, etc, should apply to MVB but it doesn't. Are we not getting the recruits? Are the typical elite MVB HSers not academically minded like they are in the other sports I mentioned? Subpar coaching?

I think you have a number of challenges at work here:

First and foremost, I believe the elite VB players are not as intellectually gifted as in other non-revenue sports. I recall talking with the Stanford coach at JO's many years ago. He had a list of Volleyball Magazine's "Fab 50," the top 50 players in the nation. He had four players highlighted, and I asked if those were the players he really wanted...and he replied that those were the only four who could get admitted to Stanford. 

Second, there is a lot of competition for smart VB players. 15 years ago, when my son was being recruited, many top colleges were seeking gifted volleyball players, including Harvard, Princeton, MIT, Stanford, NYU, USC, and half a dozen UC's, including UCB, UCLA, UCSD, UCI, UCSB and UCSC. Smart players work hard and succeed, and don't really have a professional VB option post-college. So they maximize their scholastic options. 

Third, Stanford is high-intensity. Between video, weights, chalk talk, practice and other obligations; a player will work 2x - 4x as much and as long as a player who attends universities with lower-level D1, D2, D3 or club programs. I talked to a setter at UC-Berkeley years ago who had been recruited at multiple high-level academic programs -- and he loved volleyball but only wanted to play it 10 hours a week...so he joined Berkeley's program.

Fourth...and I may get pilloried for this...Stanford plays within the rules. I strongly suspect that other programs do not, at times. Just my opinion. I won't accuse any specific program. But Lewis and Hawaii had to vacate championships in two consecutive years ('02 and '03), and BYU committed recruiting violations so egregious that they were dinged by the NCAA and all of their frosh class except one were not only returned to the applicant pool, they didn't even have to sit out the usual mandatory year (at the time). 

Fifth...I think there are two separate "pooling" phenomena at work here. Southern California and Hawaii are the hotbeds of volleyball. There have been 55 NCAA championships. Either Hawaii or a SoCal school (USC, UCLA, UCI, Pepperdine, LBSU, and even San Diego State) have won 43 of the 55 (Ohio State won three, Loyola of Chicago won two, Penn State won two, Stanford won two and BYU won three)

Sixth...yes, strong coaching matters. And it relates to "clustering." Long Beach State won three in a seven year period, 2018-2025. USC won all four of theirs between 1977 and 1990. UCLA alone has won 21 of the 55. Irvine won all four of theirs between 2007 and 2013 (John Speraw coach). Pepperdine's were spread between 1978 and 2005, but Marv Dunphy was coach for four of the five. All three of Ohio State's were between 2011 and 2017. Hawaii's two legitimate wins were in 2021 and 2022, Loyola's were in 2014 and 2015.

it's not horribly out of proportion. There's 31 D1 volleyball schools, Stanford has won two of the 55 national championships. Some very good traditional volleyball power schools (UC Santa Barbara, UC San Diego, Northridge, Ball State, Lewis) have never won the championship.

[Mick]

Can someone with more insider knowledge than me explain why we have struggled in MVB for such a long time? I feel like a lot of the same advantages that the water polos and men's gymnastics have with very few teams across the country, small athlete pool, history of good teams at Stanford, etc, should apply to MVB but it doesn't. Are we not getting the recruits? Are the typical elite MVB HSers not academically minded like they are in the other sports I mentioned? Subpar coaching?

I think you have a number of challenges at work here:

First and foremost, I believe the elite VB players are not as intellectually gifted as in other non-revenue sports. I recall talking with the Stanford coach at JO's many years ago. He had a list of Volleyball Magazine's "Fab 50," the top 50 players in the nation. He had four players highlighted, and I asked if those were the players he really wanted...and he replied that those were the only four who could get admitted to Stanford. 

Second, there is a lot of competition for smart VB players. 15 years ago, when my son was being recruited, many top colleges were seeking gifted volleyball players, including Harvard, Princeton, MIT, Stanford, NYU, USC, and half a dozen UC's, including UCB, UCLA, UCSD, UCI, UCSB and UCSC. Smart players work hard and succeed, and don't really have a professional VB option post-college. So they maximize their scholastic options. 

Third, Stanford is high-intensity. Between video, weights, chalk talk, practice and other obligations; a player will work 2x - 4x as much and as long as a player who attends universities with lower-level D1, D2, D3 or club programs. I talked to a setter at UC-Berkeley years ago who had been recruited at multiple high-level academic programs -- and he loved volleyball but only wanted to play it 10 hours a week...so he joined Berkeley's program.

Fourth...and I may get pilloried for this...Stanford plays within the rules. I strongly suspect that other programs do not, at times. Just my opinion. I won't accuse any specific program. But Lewis and Hawaii had to vacate championships in two consecutive years ('02 and '03), and BYU committed recruiting violations so egregious that they were dinged by the NCAA and all of their frosh class except one were not only returned to the applicant pool, they didn't even have to sit out the usual mandatory year (at the time). 

Fifth...I think there are two separate "pooling" phenomena at work here. Southern California and Hawaii are the hotbeds of volleyball. There have been 55 NCAA championships. Either Hawaii or a SoCal school (USC, UCLA, UCI, Pepperdine, LBSU, and even San Diego State) have won 43 of the 55 (Ohio State won three, Loyola of Chicago won two, Penn State won two, Stanford won two and BYU won three)

Sixth...yes, strong coaching matters. And it relates to "clustering." Long Beach State won three in a seven year period, 2018-2025. USC won all four of theirs between 1977 and 1990. UCLA alone has won 21 of the 55. Irvine won all four of theirs between 2007 and 2013 (John Speraw coach). Pepperdine's were spread between 1978 and 2005, but Marv Dunphy was coach for four of the five. All three of Ohio State's were between 2011 and 2017. Hawaii's two legitimate wins were in 2021 and 2022, Loyola's were in 2014 and 2015.

it's not horribly out of proportion. There's 31 D1 volleyball schools, Stanford has won two of the 55 national championships. Some very good traditional volleyball power schools (UC Santa Barbara, UC San Diego, Northridge, Ball State, Lewis) have never won the championship.