[cardfan77]

[quote author=Viking_Guy link=topic=14029.msg147727#msg147727 date=1449900412]
Later in the game, with a clear shot from about 25, he instead tried to thread a ball through two players to Morris, and turned it over again.

Both you and Twellman remarked on this, but I've got to disagree with both of you. A shot from 25 yards out is an awfully poor shot, no matter how clear it is. Better to attempt to get a closer shot than a speculative shot from way out there.
[/quote]

Bashti would have been criticized if he took the shot. Critics would have said things like being selfish  and needs to pass the ball to the greatest college player etc. 

I do agree with VG about Bashti's playing style.  He's a great player that has amazing skills and talent.  He brings energy and swag whenever he is on the field.  Dare I say, he could be the next Stanford's great.  However his overacting and embellishments are getting old quickly.  Hopefully it's just a maturity thing and he'll grow up quickly.   

[cardfan77]

[quote author=Viking_Guy link=topic=14029.msg147727#msg147727 date=1449900412]
Later in the game, with a clear shot from about 25, he instead tried to thread a ball through two players to Morris, and turned it over again.

Both you and Twellman remarked on this, but I've got to disagree with both of you. A shot from 25 yards out is an awfully poor shot, no matter how clear it is. Better to attempt to get a closer shot than a speculative shot from way out there.
[/quote]

Bashti would have been criticized if he took the shot. Critics would have said things like being selfish  and needs to pass the ball to the greatest college player etc. 

I do agree with VG about Bashti's playing style.  He's a great player that has amazing skills and talent.  He brings energy and swag whenever he is on the field.  Dare I say, he could be the next Stanford's great.  However his overacting and embellishments are getting old quickly.  Hopefully it's just a maturity thing and he'll grow up quickly.   

[Viking_Guy]

I think the thing is, I would be much more willing to support the low-probability chance-taking if it wasn't paired with the flopping.  His back heel that set up Jordan Morris' sublime finish earlier in the tournament was incredible, and the close control that led up to it was amazing.

But as the athletes in all sports get faster, and officiating gets more difficult, and offenses are being given rules advantages in an effort to improve scoring, I am growing to loathe deliberate attempts to induce foul calls in many sports.  I really hated Chasson Randle's tendency to throw his head backwards if any defender's hand or arm got anywhere near it trying to draw a foul.

On soccer, I'd be really happy if they took a page from field hockey, and I've seen it floated as an idea.  Reducing the number of players on the field in overtime, and perhaps even doing the "lose 1 player every OT" progression.  PKs are not only unsatisfying, I think teams would be less willing to go into complete defensive shells late in tied games.  Instead of merely holding on for 20 extra minutes and then getting a coin flip, the better team and better players should eventually win out.

VG

[Viking_Guy]

I think the thing is, I would be much more willing to support the low-probability chance-taking if it wasn't paired with the flopping.  His back heel that set up Jordan Morris' sublime finish earlier in the tournament was incredible, and the close control that led up to it was amazing.

But as the athletes in all sports get faster, and officiating gets more difficult, and offenses are being given rules advantages in an effort to improve scoring, I am growing to loathe deliberate attempts to induce foul calls in many sports.  I really hated Chasson Randle's tendency to throw his head backwards if any defender's hand or arm got anywhere near it trying to draw a foul.

On soccer, I'd be really happy if they took a page from field hockey, and I've seen it floated as an idea.  Reducing the number of players on the field in overtime, and perhaps even doing the "lose 1 player every OT" progression.  PKs are not only unsatisfying, I think teams would be less willing to go into complete defensive shells late in tied games.  Instead of merely holding on for 20 extra minutes and then getting a coin flip, the better team and better players should eventually win out.

VG

[81alum]

On soccer, I'd be really happy if they took a page from field hockey, and I've seen it floated as an idea.  Reducing the number of players on the field in overtime, and perhaps even doing the "lose 1 player every OT" progression.  PKs are not only unsatisfying, I think teams would be less willing to go into complete defensive shells late in tied games.  Instead of merely holding on for 20 extra minutes and then getting a coin flip, the better team and better players should eventually win out.

I had wondered about this.  How about something extreme like taking away goalies in the second overtime?  Or go to a 7 on 7?  Or having adjustable goals and expanding their width in overtime?  Or moving the penalty spot back a ways to make the kicks more of a challenge?  I guess that just assumes that penalty kicks are somehow inappropriate. 

I have to say I worry more about penalty kicks taken in games than in overtime.  So often it seems a game is won or lost because of a questionable foul in the box.  An entire game is played to a draw, with hundreds of passes and dozens of shots, and the game is determined by a referee's call.  The impact of a bad call (or even a good one) is far greater than in any other sport I know, and can make a mockery out of the rest of a lengthy game. 

[81alum]

On soccer, I'd be really happy if they took a page from field hockey, and I've seen it floated as an idea.  Reducing the number of players on the field in overtime, and perhaps even doing the "lose 1 player every OT" progression.  PKs are not only unsatisfying, I think teams would be less willing to go into complete defensive shells late in tied games.  Instead of merely holding on for 20 extra minutes and then getting a coin flip, the better team and better players should eventually win out.

I had wondered about this.  How about something extreme like taking away goalies in the second overtime?  Or go to a 7 on 7?  Or having adjustable goals and expanding their width in overtime?  Or moving the penalty spot back a ways to make the kicks more of a challenge?  I guess that just assumes that penalty kicks are somehow inappropriate. 

I have to say I worry more about penalty kicks taken in games than in overtime.  So often it seems a game is won or lost because of a questionable foul in the box.  An entire game is played to a draw, with hundreds of passes and dozens of shots, and the game is determined by a referee's call.  The impact of a bad call (or even a good one) is far greater than in any other sport I know, and can make a mockery out of the rest of a lengthy game. 

[Griffins78]

I wondered how and why Akron was such a men's soccer power. I see they have quite a long history of success but also while watching the game I saw a player from Brazil, then Spain, Portugal, Eritrea, New Zealand, England, and Israel.

[Griffins78]

I wondered how and why Akron was such a men's soccer power. I see they have quite a long history of success but also while watching the game I saw a player from Brazil, then Spain, Portugal, Eritrea, New Zealand, England, and Israel.

[washingtonismoney]

I wondered how and why Akron was such a men's soccer power. I see they have quite a long history of success but also while watching the game I saw a player from Brazil, then Spain, Portugal, Eritrea, New Zealand, England, and Israel.

It has to do with Akron's coach before their current one. He's a guy named Caleb Porter; he established Akron into a powerhouse through very good recruiting and an ability to get them to play some very pretty ball. Porter went to MLS (and just won the championship with Portland). Seems that Porter's successor built on that foundation.

[washingtonismoney]

I wondered how and why Akron was such a men's soccer power. I see they have quite a long history of success but also while watching the game I saw a player from Brazil, then Spain, Portugal, Eritrea, New Zealand, England, and Israel.

It has to do with Akron's coach before their current one. He's a guy named Caleb Porter; he established Akron into a powerhouse through very good recruiting and an ability to get them to play some very pretty ball. Porter went to MLS (and just won the championship with Portland). Seems that Porter's successor built on that foundation.

[Nan3cy]

[quote author=Boston Card link=topic=14029.msg147721#msg147721 date=1449898800]

I feel for the Akron kid a little bit, but not too much.

BC

I'm sure it's tough on the losing side no matter what, but I have to think that the goalies must expect to miss a few.  It might be tougher to miss as a kicker (striker, whatever) who misses on an open side of the goal, as players on both sides did tonight, particularly the Akron player who hit the post on the open side in round 7 or so.
[/quote]

I think you're right for goalies with this level of experience. But I just thought of my kid in his first year of AYSO, on a team that made the second day of the playoffs, being put in goal toward the end of the game when the usual goalie was hurt. My guy had played goalie before, but *very* little. He'd been in goal for about five minutes when there was a penalty kick from right in front of him. Of course he didn't get it, and of course he felt responsible. Fortunately his coach was a good guy who knew how to buck up a very distressed eight-year-old.

[Nan3cy]

[quote author=Boston Card link=topic=14029.msg147721#msg147721 date=1449898800]

I feel for the Akron kid a little bit, but not too much.

BC

I'm sure it's tough on the losing side no matter what, but I have to think that the goalies must expect to miss a few.  It might be tougher to miss as a kicker (striker, whatever) who misses on an open side of the goal, as players on both sides did tonight, particularly the Akron player who hit the post on the open side in round 7 or so.
[/quote]

I think you're right for goalies with this level of experience. But I just thought of my kid in his first year of AYSO, on a team that made the second day of the playoffs, being put in goal toward the end of the game when the usual goalie was hurt. My guy had played goalie before, but *very* little. He'd been in goal for about five minutes when there was a penalty kick from right in front of him. Of course he didn't get it, and of course he felt responsible. Fortunately his coach was a good guy who knew how to buck up a very distressed eight-year-old.

[terry]

I wondered how and why Akron was such a men's soccer power. I see they have quite a long history of success but also while watching the game I saw a player from Brazil, then Spain, Portugal, Eritrea, New Zealand, England, and Israel.

I'd be curious to know whether those foreign players will end up graduating from Akron.

[terry]

I wondered how and why Akron was such a men's soccer power. I see they have quite a long history of success but also while watching the game I saw a player from Brazil, then Spain, Portugal, Eritrea, New Zealand, England, and Israel.

I'd be curious to know whether those foreign players will end up graduating from Akron.

[Viking_Guy]

Terry--

It was even more glaring in the other semi-final. Syracuse played 14 players last night, and 5 were from the United States.  Clemson played 16, and 7 were Americans.  It's really turning into what first water polo (the University of Southern Croatia, e.g.) and then tennis have become, with substantial inroads being made into basketball - international youth all-star teams playing under the banner of a university.

A couple of other notes, as a long-time keeper, about PKs:

They should be converted at about a 80-90% clip; that was what my coaches told me.  There's just too many options for the kicker and keepers, even if they go the right way, can only cover about 15-20% of the goalmouth.  Last night, the most devestating shots were the ones taken that went in about 5 feet up - not tempting fate and the crossbar, but high enough that a diving keeper could do nothing about them.

And going further along the lines of what 81Alum said, the most glaring thing to me is the arbitrariness of "the box" in determining what should and should not be a penalty kick.  Last week's match against Wake Forest, for example.  The foul was committed on the very edge of the area, with 5 defenders between the ball and the goal, and the result of a stumbling player.  I can't count the number of times I've seen attacking players get to the edge of the box and then immediately look for an excuse to dive, trying to buy a call.

Or as seen last night, the unintentional hand ball.  Last night's game could've totally changed course if the referee had decided to call a handball on Ty Thompson on the ball driven off his shoulder/head into his trailing hand, and THEN decided it was in the box (it was about a yard outside the top).  Why that ball should be treated pretty much exactly the same as a similar hand saving a shot off the goal line is a mystery to me.

But if it were up to me, I'd almost have it be referee's discretion - no box leading to an automatic PK, but some sense of a "goal-scoring chance" like that which informs the breakaway red-card decision.  For non-scoring chance fouls, a direct kick at the spot of the foul, with defenders backed off 10 yards (or into the goal mouth), would be the norm.

Or something like that.

VG

[Viking_Guy]

Terry--

It was even more glaring in the other semi-final. Syracuse played 14 players last night, and 5 were from the United States.  Clemson played 16, and 7 were Americans.  It's really turning into what first water polo (the University of Southern Croatia, e.g.) and then tennis have become, with substantial inroads being made into basketball - international youth all-star teams playing under the banner of a university.

A couple of other notes, as a long-time keeper, about PKs:

They should be converted at about a 80-90% clip; that was what my coaches told me.  There's just too many options for the kicker and keepers, even if they go the right way, can only cover about 15-20% of the goalmouth.  Last night, the most devestating shots were the ones taken that went in about 5 feet up - not tempting fate and the crossbar, but high enough that a diving keeper could do nothing about them.

And going further along the lines of what 81Alum said, the most glaring thing to me is the arbitrariness of "the box" in determining what should and should not be a penalty kick.  Last week's match against Wake Forest, for example.  The foul was committed on the very edge of the area, with 5 defenders between the ball and the goal, and the result of a stumbling player.  I can't count the number of times I've seen attacking players get to the edge of the box and then immediately look for an excuse to dive, trying to buy a call.

Or as seen last night, the unintentional hand ball.  Last night's game could've totally changed course if the referee had decided to call a handball on Ty Thompson on the ball driven off his shoulder/head into his trailing hand, and THEN decided it was in the box (it was about a yard outside the top).  Why that ball should be treated pretty much exactly the same as a similar hand saving a shot off the goal line is a mystery to me.

But if it were up to me, I'd almost have it be referee's discretion - no box leading to an automatic PK, but some sense of a "goal-scoring chance" like that which informs the breakaway red-card decision.  For non-scoring chance fouls, a direct kick at the spot of the foul, with defenders backed off 10 yards (or into the goal mouth), would be the norm.

Or something like that.

VG

[Mick]

I wondered how and why Akron was such a men's soccer power. I see they have quite a long history of success but also while watching the game I saw a player from Brazil, then Spain, Portugal, Eritrea, New Zealand, England, and Israel.

Three years ago, my son played volleyball against dominant NAIA power Cal_Baptist.  It was loaded with players from Brazil, Italy, Poland, Russia and Hungary.  The five foreigners played the entire match (most were in their mid-20s), and two mentioned to my son that they were semipro back in Europe/SoAm.  Fast forward a few years, they wanted to join the NCAA and the MPSF with Stanford.  They hit the benchmarks and now have just one foreign player, from Spain.  They also have a 2-20 conference record and are last in the conference.

[Mick]

I wondered how and why Akron was such a men's soccer power. I see they have quite a long history of success but also while watching the game I saw a player from Brazil, then Spain, Portugal, Eritrea, New Zealand, England, and Israel.

Three years ago, my son played volleyball against dominant NAIA power Cal_Baptist.  It was loaded with players from Brazil, Italy, Poland, Russia and Hungary.  The five foreigners played the entire match (most were in their mid-20s), and two mentioned to my son that they were semipro back in Europe/SoAm.  Fast forward a few years, they wanted to join the NCAA and the MPSF with Stanford.  They hit the benchmarks and now have just one foreign player, from Spain.  They also have a 2-20 conference record and are last in the conference.