[triangle2]

I don't pretend to know folks on this board, but I've lurked for a long time and posted infrequently here since I gave up on the Bootleg quite a few years ago. I will say that this board has had more than its fair share of generous posters, with thoughtful and insightful dialogue and reasonably polite give and take on issues that transcend sports. There is a tendency to express content here; the best posters here deliver information and give me something to chew on. I have been distressed at the uptick in invective / ad hominem attacking that involved some regulars whose opinions I have valued and generally paid close attention to.

I have seen some remarkable sharing of thoughts and ideas on this board; until very recently, the board seemed safe enough that many folks were comfortable asking for and receiving personal advice about a number of difficult personal issues involving such varied topics as death, employment, college admissions, and parenting; I noted with approval one such instance where someone needed emergency advice about a relative/friend who may have been experiencing an emergent mental health issue. That request for support was swiftly and politely responded to. These things don't happen on other boards that I have frequented.

I don't invest in other boards because I have tired of the conflict. Unmonitored boards turn into...well, like the free section of the Bootleg. Monitored boards usually crash and burn when the moderator quits. I'm not sure that we have appreciated how long Yvonne has run things and kept the board mostly free of the Jerry Springer episodes.

I would echo 81alum's thought that a reset is in order. The key is shared commitment to civility, recognition that most people here care about the quality of the discourse, and acknowledgment that real people with feelings lurk behind the avatars.

[triangle2]

I don't pretend to know folks on this board, but I've lurked for a long time and posted infrequently here since I gave up on the Bootleg quite a few years ago. I will say that this board has had more than its fair share of generous posters, with thoughtful and insightful dialogue and reasonably polite give and take on issues that transcend sports. There is a tendency to express content here; the best posters here deliver information and give me something to chew on. I have been distressed at the uptick in invective / ad hominem attacking that involved some regulars whose opinions I have valued and generally paid close attention to.

I have seen some remarkable sharing of thoughts and ideas on this board; until very recently, the board seemed safe enough that many folks were comfortable asking for and receiving personal advice about a number of difficult personal issues involving such varied topics as death, employment, college admissions, and parenting; I noted with approval one such instance where someone needed emergency advice about a relative/friend who may have been experiencing an emergent mental health issue. That request for support was swiftly and politely responded to. These things don't happen on other boards that I have frequented.

I don't invest in other boards because I have tired of the conflict. Unmonitored boards turn into...well, like the free section of the Bootleg. Monitored boards usually crash and burn when the moderator quits. I'm not sure that we have appreciated how long Yvonne has run things and kept the board mostly free of the Jerry Springer episodes.

I would echo 81alum's thought that a reset is in order. The key is shared commitment to civility, recognition that most people here care about the quality of the discourse, and acknowledgment that real people with feelings lurk behind the avatars.

[zedcom]

I don't pretend to know folks on this board, but I've lurked for a long time and posted infrequently here since I gave up on the Bootleg quite a few years ago. I will say that this board has had more than its fair share of generous posters, with thoughtful and insightful dialogue and reasonably polite give and take on issues that transcend sports. There is a tendency to express content here; the best posters here deliver information and give me something to chew on. I have been distressed at the uptick in invective / ad hominem attacking that involved some regulars whose opinions I have valued and generally paid close attention to.

I have seen some remarkable sharing of thoughts and ideas on this board; until very recently, the board seemed safe enough that many folks were comfortable asking for and receiving personal advice about a number of difficult personal issues involving such varied topics as death, employment, college admissions, and parenting; I noted with approval one such instance where someone needed emergency advice about a relative/friend who may have been experiencing an emergent mental health issue. That request for support was swiftly and politely responded to. These things don't happen on other boards that I have frequented.

I don't invest in other boards because I have tired of the conflict. Unmonitored boards turn into...well, like the free section of the Bootleg. Monitored boards usually crash and burn when the moderator quits. I'm not sure that we have appreciated how long Yvonne has run things and kept the board mostly free of the Jerry Springer episodes.

I would echo 81alum's thought that a reset is in order. The key is shared commitment to civility, recognition that most people here care about the quality of the discourse, and acknowledgment that real people with feelings lurk behind the avatars.

Well said triangle2!

[zedcom]

I don't pretend to know folks on this board, but I've lurked for a long time and posted infrequently here since I gave up on the Bootleg quite a few years ago. I will say that this board has had more than its fair share of generous posters, with thoughtful and insightful dialogue and reasonably polite give and take on issues that transcend sports. There is a tendency to express content here; the best posters here deliver information and give me something to chew on. I have been distressed at the uptick in invective / ad hominem attacking that involved some regulars whose opinions I have valued and generally paid close attention to.

I have seen some remarkable sharing of thoughts and ideas on this board; until very recently, the board seemed safe enough that many folks were comfortable asking for and receiving personal advice about a number of difficult personal issues involving such varied topics as death, employment, college admissions, and parenting; I noted with approval one such instance where someone needed emergency advice about a relative/friend who may have been experiencing an emergent mental health issue. That request for support was swiftly and politely responded to. These things don't happen on other boards that I have frequented.

I don't invest in other boards because I have tired of the conflict. Unmonitored boards turn into...well, like the free section of the Bootleg. Monitored boards usually crash and burn when the moderator quits. I'm not sure that we have appreciated how long Yvonne has run things and kept the board mostly free of the Jerry Springer episodes.

I would echo 81alum's thought that a reset is in order. The key is shared commitment to civility, recognition that most people here care about the quality of the discourse, and acknowledgment that real people with feelings lurk behind the avatars.

Well said triangle2!

[FarmBoy]

Especially with that precise type of content.

Hopefully he will be able to just copy and paste that post on a weekly basis.

[FarmBoy]

Especially with that precise type of content.

Hopefully he will be able to just copy and paste that post on a weekly basis.

[Mick]

If Yvonne or anyone else wanted my advice, here it is:

I'm a political scientist and I lead my students (of very different ideologies) through discussion of political controversies on almost a daily basis.  I would never want to attempt to do that online, in an electronic format.  Body language, facial expressions, and eye contact are critical parts of communication when it comes to showing empathy and judging sincerity.  With  that missing, motives can easily be misinterpreted, distorted, and exaggerated and the ability to listen with sympathy to someone who holds views that you find disagreeable is greatly diminished.

Despite that, this board did remarkably well on a couple of hot-button political threads that would have blown up much more rapidly in a different venue.  But we danced with fire too many times and people began to step over the boundaries for civil behavior.  The gradual increase in the number and intensity of these political threads gradually desensitized us to civil boundaries appropriate for a sports board.

That is why I voted to ban political threads.  I can save my political talk for face-to-face if that helps to preserve the sports community here.  I'm not at all surprised that Yvonne and Garvin have reportedly been face-to-face friends in the past, and that this sad rift occurred through electronic media.  That is worth thinking about.

So I think some strict new rules about political posts, a re commitment of us all to press the reset button to make this more strictly a sports board, and amnesty for all past transgressors would be my preferred remedy.  Hurt feelings, anger, apologies, and concerns about offensive statements between individuals should be sorted through offline--preferably face to face or at least by voice.

+1 to all of the above.

And slightly off-topic, but I think at least half of a conversation is the ability to read facial information, body language, involuntary mannerisms ,etc.  I have a friend who lives in a different world, he sells all over the country, so much of what he does is by the phone.  He attempts to understand a listener's personality in the moment, so he has to concentrate very, very hard to glean information from very few clues.  It leaves him oversensitive, and (literally) at the end of the day, his work day, he will have to come down from being oversensitive because he finds he overreacts to most normal conversation.

[Mick]

If Yvonne or anyone else wanted my advice, here it is:

I'm a political scientist and I lead my students (of very different ideologies) through discussion of political controversies on almost a daily basis.  I would never want to attempt to do that online, in an electronic format.  Body language, facial expressions, and eye contact are critical parts of communication when it comes to showing empathy and judging sincerity.  With  that missing, motives can easily be misinterpreted, distorted, and exaggerated and the ability to listen with sympathy to someone who holds views that you find disagreeable is greatly diminished.

Despite that, this board did remarkably well on a couple of hot-button political threads that would have blown up much more rapidly in a different venue.  But we danced with fire too many times and people began to step over the boundaries for civil behavior.  The gradual increase in the number and intensity of these political threads gradually desensitized us to civil boundaries appropriate for a sports board.

That is why I voted to ban political threads.  I can save my political talk for face-to-face if that helps to preserve the sports community here.  I'm not at all surprised that Yvonne and Garvin have reportedly been face-to-face friends in the past, and that this sad rift occurred through electronic media.  That is worth thinking about.

So I think some strict new rules about political posts, a re commitment of us all to press the reset button to make this more strictly a sports board, and amnesty for all past transgressors would be my preferred remedy.  Hurt feelings, anger, apologies, and concerns about offensive statements between individuals should be sorted through offline--preferably face to face or at least by voice.

+1 to all of the above.

And slightly off-topic, but I think at least half of a conversation is the ability to read facial information, body language, involuntary mannerisms ,etc.  I have a friend who lives in a different world, he sells all over the country, so much of what he does is by the phone.  He attempts to understand a listener's personality in the moment, so he has to concentrate very, very hard to glean information from very few clues.  It leaves him oversensitive, and (literally) at the end of the day, his work day, he will have to come down from being oversensitive because he finds he overreacts to most normal conversation.

[GoodGrief]

[quote author=GoodGrief link=topic=15105.msg163884#msg163884 date=1464234157]
It is bizarre that the Cardboard is at a crisis point from one annoying poster. I'm really bummed at the prospect of Garvin leaving. For me, reading his football recaps were always the closing martini shot to the game. Maybe I'll have to post recaps in his place. And boy will they be great. ("Christian McCaffrey ran really really fast for a touchdown. Wow is he fast. Apparently somebody did a good block or something because the announcers said something about the block but I just watch the ball so I didn't see it. And then defense happened. And then Bryce Love ran really really fast for a touchdown. Wow, he's fast too.")

Well, GoodGrief. Those recaps of yours will probably never earn a pulitzer prize, but I wouldn't mind if you posted them regularly. Especially with that precise type of content.
[/quote]

Clueless sports commentary is the only kind of sports commentary that I'm capable of, so I can provide it after every football game, although it'll probably drive more membership away from the Cardboard than this recent kerfuffle.

The only savvy sports commentary I can provide is about gymnastics, with regards to which I am frequently yelling at the television at how bad Tim Daggett is at commentating. He's an Olympic Gold Medalist, but he speaks without any technical knowledge whatsoever. Instead he says, "Here he does a lot of flips and a lot of twists! Wow! But he stepped out of bounds--that's a disaster!"

[GoodGrief]

[quote author=GoodGrief link=topic=15105.msg163884#msg163884 date=1464234157]
It is bizarre that the Cardboard is at a crisis point from one annoying poster. I'm really bummed at the prospect of Garvin leaving. For me, reading his football recaps were always the closing martini shot to the game. Maybe I'll have to post recaps in his place. And boy will they be great. ("Christian McCaffrey ran really really fast for a touchdown. Wow is he fast. Apparently somebody did a good block or something because the announcers said something about the block but I just watch the ball so I didn't see it. And then defense happened. And then Bryce Love ran really really fast for a touchdown. Wow, he's fast too.")

Well, GoodGrief. Those recaps of yours will probably never earn a pulitzer prize, but I wouldn't mind if you posted them regularly. Especially with that precise type of content.
[/quote]

Clueless sports commentary is the only kind of sports commentary that I'm capable of, so I can provide it after every football game, although it'll probably drive more membership away from the Cardboard than this recent kerfuffle.

The only savvy sports commentary I can provide is about gymnastics, with regards to which I am frequently yelling at the television at how bad Tim Daggett is at commentating. He's an Olympic Gold Medalist, but he speaks without any technical knowledge whatsoever. Instead he says, "Here he does a lot of flips and a lot of twists! Wow! But he stepped out of bounds--that's a disaster!"

[fullmetal]

I don't pretend to know folks on this board, but I've lurked for a long time and posted infrequently here since I gave up on the Bootleg quite a few years ago. I will say that this board has had more than its fair share of generous posters, with thoughtful and insightful dialogue and reasonably polite give and take on issues that transcend sports. There is a tendency to express content here; the best posters here deliver information and give me something to chew on. I have been distressed at the uptick in invective / ad hominem attacking that involved some regulars whose opinions I have valued and generally paid close attention to.

I have seen some remarkable sharing of thoughts and ideas on this board; until very recently, the board seemed safe enough that many folks were comfortable asking for and receiving personal advice about a number of difficult personal issues involving such varied topics as death, employment, college admissions, and parenting; I noted with approval one such instance where someone needed emergency advice about a relative/friend who may have been experiencing an emergent mental health issue. That request for support was swiftly and politely responded to. These things don't happen on other boards that I have frequented.

I don't invest in other boards because I have tired of the conflict. Unmonitored boards turn into...well, like the free section of the Bootleg. Monitored boards usually crash and burn when the moderator quits. I'm not sure that we have appreciated how long Yvonne has run things and kept the board mostly free of the Jerry Springer episodes.

I would echo 81alum's thought that a reset is in order. The key is shared commitment to civility, recognition that most people here care about the quality of the discourse, and acknowledgment that real people with feelings lurk behind the avatars.

Agreed!

[fullmetal]

I don't pretend to know folks on this board, but I've lurked for a long time and posted infrequently here since I gave up on the Bootleg quite a few years ago. I will say that this board has had more than its fair share of generous posters, with thoughtful and insightful dialogue and reasonably polite give and take on issues that transcend sports. There is a tendency to express content here; the best posters here deliver information and give me something to chew on. I have been distressed at the uptick in invective / ad hominem attacking that involved some regulars whose opinions I have valued and generally paid close attention to.

I have seen some remarkable sharing of thoughts and ideas on this board; until very recently, the board seemed safe enough that many folks were comfortable asking for and receiving personal advice about a number of difficult personal issues involving such varied topics as death, employment, college admissions, and parenting; I noted with approval one such instance where someone needed emergency advice about a relative/friend who may have been experiencing an emergent mental health issue. That request for support was swiftly and politely responded to. These things don't happen on other boards that I have frequented.

I don't invest in other boards because I have tired of the conflict. Unmonitored boards turn into...well, like the free section of the Bootleg. Monitored boards usually crash and burn when the moderator quits. I'm not sure that we have appreciated how long Yvonne has run things and kept the board mostly free of the Jerry Springer episodes.

I would echo 81alum's thought that a reset is in order. The key is shared commitment to civility, recognition that most people here care about the quality of the discourse, and acknowledgment that real people with feelings lurk behind the avatars.

Agreed!

[Hank 91]

Garvin is one of the five Cardboarders that I've met in the real world (Yvonne, Fullmetal, Spiny Norman, and SU Buddha are the others), and if it's true that he's gone, I'll be sad.

I bet I've mentioned this before, and if not I should have. I had been reading this board and some others occasionally for a while, and then I started GoMightyCard. I posted a link to my new site here and at the Bootleg, hoping to draw a few readers. My post at the Bootleg was almost immediately deleted, but here I was met with open arms. Folks were encouraging and eager to have another Stanford site out there, and Yvonne responded quickly to tell me that she'd be putting up a link to my site on this site's main page.

I was hooked after that. I love this board not just for the support and love I've always felt relating to my own site, but mainly for the community of which I'm proud to be a part. I sometimes wondered about Yvonne's admonitions to keep the focus on sports, but now I see why. I truly hope that these last few weeks are not the beginning of the end, but rather a reminder how important this place is in all of our lives.

[Hank 91]

Garvin is one of the five Cardboarders that I've met in the real world (Yvonne, Fullmetal, Spiny Norman, and SU Buddha are the others), and if it's true that he's gone, I'll be sad.

I bet I've mentioned this before, and if not I should have. I had been reading this board and some others occasionally for a while, and then I started GoMightyCard. I posted a link to my new site here and at the Bootleg, hoping to draw a few readers. My post at the Bootleg was almost immediately deleted, but here I was met with open arms. Folks were encouraging and eager to have another Stanford site out there, and Yvonne responded quickly to tell me that she'd be putting up a link to my site on this site's main page.

I was hooked after that. I love this board not just for the support and love I've always felt relating to my own site, but mainly for the community of which I'm proud to be a part. I sometimes wondered about Yvonne's admonitions to keep the focus on sports, but now I see why. I truly hope that these last few weeks are not the beginning of the end, but rather a reminder how important this place is in all of our lives.

[Nan3cy]

Thank you, Hank. Well said.

[Nan3cy]

Thank you, Hank. Well said.

[Roberton3]

I've been posting here for several years now, and lurking for much longer than that (roughly 15 years or so, I think).  There's always been a real sense of community here, along with a combination of intelligence and civility, all of which are far too rare on sports-related message boards.  This board is something special.  But community on the internet is fragile, and civility is even more fragile.

I love most of the off-topic threads here.  And I used to love the political threads.  But those have gotten less friendly, and consequently much less fun.  Perhaps that just mirrors the way politics in general has gotten meaner (particularly this year: for the first time ever, I find myself avoiding politics when talking with friends on the right or on the left, because the extremes on both sides seem unusually nasty this year).  That makes me profoundly sad.  And if it means that this place loses some of the longtime core Cardboarders, that would be even sadder.

[Roberton3]

I've been posting here for several years now, and lurking for much longer than that (roughly 15 years or so, I think).  There's always been a real sense of community here, along with a combination of intelligence and civility, all of which are far too rare on sports-related message boards.  This board is something special.  But community on the internet is fragile, and civility is even more fragile.

I love most of the off-topic threads here.  And I used to love the political threads.  But those have gotten less friendly, and consequently much less fun.  Perhaps that just mirrors the way politics in general has gotten meaner (particularly this year: for the first time ever, I find myself avoiding politics when talking with friends on the right or on the left, because the extremes on both sides seem unusually nasty this year).  That makes me profoundly sad.  And if it means that this place loses some of the longtime core Cardboarders, that would be even sadder.