[CornFed]

Rodgers is +2 thru 5 holes today and is currently in 29th.  Even w/ that rough start I don't think he has lost ground on the field.  The course is brutal.  The officials were trying to get the greens to 16 on the Stimpmeter, but apparently they will start the day at "only" 15.  I have never even HEARD of greens running at 16.  Ever.  For those unfamiliar with the Stimp, that is wicked, wicked fast.  Sorta like putting on the surface of a mirror!!!  :-\

[CornFed]

Rodgers is +2 thru 5 holes today and is currently in 29th.  Even w/ that rough start I don't think he has lost ground on the field.  The course is brutal.  The officials were trying to get the greens to 16 on the Stimpmeter, but apparently they will start the day at "only" 15.  I have never even HEARD of greens running at 16.  Ever.  For those unfamiliar with the Stimp, that is wicked, wicked fast.  Sorta like putting on the surface of a mirror!!!  :-\

[Mick]

Rodgers is +2 through 5 holes today and is currently in 29th.  Even w/ that rough start I don't think he has lost ground on the field.  The course is brutal.  The officials were trying to get the greens to 16 on the Stimpmeter, but apparently they will start the day at "only" 15.  I have never even HEARD of greens running at 16.  Ever.  For those unfamiliar with the Stimp, that is wicked, wicked fast.  Sorta like putting on the surface of a mirror!!!  :-\

The stimpmeter got its start at Oakmont in 1935.  A spectator from Harvard named Edward Stimpson, Sr. came up with a device that would come up with a uniform role based upon uniform pressure exerted upon a ball.  The device is now in its third iteration, and they were actually seeking a 13 to 15 at Oakmont.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stimpmeter

[Mick]

Rodgers is +2 through 5 holes today and is currently in 29th.  Even w/ that rough start I don't think he has lost ground on the field.  The course is brutal.  The officials were trying to get the greens to 16 on the Stimpmeter, but apparently they will start the day at "only" 15.  I have never even HEARD of greens running at 16.  Ever.  For those unfamiliar with the Stimp, that is wicked, wicked fast.  Sorta like putting on the surface of a mirror!!!  :-\

The stimpmeter got its start at Oakmont in 1935.  A spectator from Harvard named Edward Stimpson, Sr. came up with a device that would come up with a uniform role based upon uniform pressure exerted upon a ball.  The device is now in its third iteration, and they were actually seeking a 13 to 15 at Oakmont.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stimpmeter

[BigEasyCard]

Patrick Rodgers ends up plus 7 today and plus 10 for tournament, tied for 46th.

Geaux Cardinal!

[BigEasyCard]

Patrick Rodgers ends up plus 7 today and plus 10 for tournament, tied for 46th.

Geaux Cardinal!

[CowboyIndian]

Edward Stimpson, Sr. came up with a device that would come up with a uniform role

Is this his work?

[CowboyIndian]

Edward Stimpson, Sr. came up with a device that would come up with a uniform role

Is this his work?

[Mick]

[quote author=Mick link=topic=15216.msg165262#msg165262 date=1466377982]
Edward Stimpson, Sr. came up with a device that would come up with a uniform role

Is this his work?


[/quote]

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[Mick]

[quote author=Mick link=topic=15216.msg165262#msg165262 date=1466377982]
Edward Stimpson, Sr. came up with a device that would come up with a uniform role

Is this his work?


[/quote]

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[CornFed]

[quote author=CornFed link=topic=15216.msg165259#msg165259 date=1466363442]
Rodgers is +2 through 5 holes today and is currently in 29th.  Even w/ that rough start I don't think he has lost ground on the field.  The course is brutal.  The officials were trying to get the greens to 16 on the Stimpmeter, but apparently they will start the day at "only" 15.  I have never even HEARD of greens running at 16.  Ever.  For those unfamiliar with the Stimp, that is wicked, wicked fast.  Sorta like putting on the surface of a mirror!!!  :-\

The stimpmeter got its start at Oakmont in 1935.  A spectator from Harvard named Edward Stimpson, Sr. came up with a device that would come up with a uniform role based upon uniform pressure exerted upon a ball.  The device is now in its third iteration, and they were actually seeking a 13 to 15 at Oakmont.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stimpmeter
[/quote]

I think the members play the greens above 14. 

[CornFed]

[quote author=CornFed link=topic=15216.msg165259#msg165259 date=1466363442]
Rodgers is +2 through 5 holes today and is currently in 29th.  Even w/ that rough start I don't think he has lost ground on the field.  The course is brutal.  The officials were trying to get the greens to 16 on the Stimpmeter, but apparently they will start the day at "only" 15.  I have never even HEARD of greens running at 16.  Ever.  For those unfamiliar with the Stimp, that is wicked, wicked fast.  Sorta like putting on the surface of a mirror!!!  :-\

The stimpmeter got its start at Oakmont in 1935.  A spectator from Harvard named Edward Stimpson, Sr. came up with a device that would come up with a uniform role based upon uniform pressure exerted upon a ball.  The device is now in its third iteration, and they were actually seeking a 13 to 15 at Oakmont.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stimpmeter
[/quote]

I think the members play the greens above 14. 

[winflop]

I think the members play the greens above 14.

No way.  You do realize that a linoleum floor runs around 13.

USGA needs to get its head out of its rear end on the ball moving rulings on the green on several fronts:
- The penalty either needs to be assessed ASAP or it doesn't.  This "we'll decide after the round" is a laughingstock.
- I can understand the rule being applied out on the course but not on the green
- If you can't put your putter gently down behind the ball without touching it, and causing the ball to move, then maybe the greens are cut too short?

Something's gotta give.  I love the fast greens and I would rather the penalty not be applied on the green in the way it is being applied.  The way it's being done today is a joke, and the USGA is lucky that everyone else collapsed down the stretch.

[winflop]

I think the members play the greens above 14.

No way.  You do realize that a linoleum floor runs around 13.

USGA needs to get its head out of its rear end on the ball moving rulings on the green on several fronts:
- The penalty either needs to be assessed ASAP or it doesn't.  This "we'll decide after the round" is a laughingstock.
- I can understand the rule being applied out on the course but not on the green
- If you can't put your putter gently down behind the ball without touching it, and causing the ball to move, then maybe the greens are cut too short?

Something's gotta give.  I love the fast greens and I would rather the penalty not be applied on the green in the way it is being applied.  The way it's being done today is a joke, and the USGA is lucky that everyone else collapsed down the stretch.

[BostonCard]

Not a golf player, but I'm married to one; my wife was saying that this is exactly the sort of crap that is causing the game of golf to die out.  The anal retentive adhesion to arcane rules and penalizing people for stuff that is beyond their control is just asinine.

BC

[BostonCard]

Not a golf player, but I'm married to one; my wife was saying that this is exactly the sort of crap that is causing the game of golf to die out.  The anal retentive adhesion to arcane rules and penalizing people for stuff that is beyond their control is just asinine.

BC

[slide]

Not a golf player, but I'm married to one; my wife was saying that this is exactly the sort of crap that is causing the game of golf to die out.  The anal retentive adhesion to arcane rules and penalizing people for stuff that is beyond their control is just asinine.

BC

imo, slow play is killing golf, not arcane rules. unless you tee it up in a competition, these rules exist but more in the abstract.

the USGA ruling yesterday was in "d-u-m" dumb category.  not the first time for USGA, but it was poor precedent on a relatively new rule meant to avoid such situations.

on the earlier comments, Oakmont members do like their greens kept very quick.  I have played it in competition when you could not land your approach on the green on #1 and keep it on the green.  granted that was due to a combination of firmness and speed (stimp), but there it is.  having played Augusta not long after the Masters, I'd put Oakmont equal to or faster on green speed.

[slide]

Not a golf player, but I'm married to one; my wife was saying that this is exactly the sort of crap that is causing the game of golf to die out.  The anal retentive adhesion to arcane rules and penalizing people for stuff that is beyond their control is just asinine.

BC

imo, slow play is killing golf, not arcane rules. unless you tee it up in a competition, these rules exist but more in the abstract.

the USGA ruling yesterday was in "d-u-m" dumb category.  not the first time for USGA, but it was poor precedent on a relatively new rule meant to avoid such situations.

on the earlier comments, Oakmont members do like their greens kept very quick.  I have played it in competition when you could not land your approach on the green on #1 and keep it on the green.  granted that was due to a combination of firmness and speed (stimp), but there it is.  having played Augusta not long after the Masters, I'd put Oakmont equal to or faster on green speed.

[Hulk01]

I don't assign the problem to golf generally, but to the WASPish prigs in rep ties that dominate the USGA.  (With the exception of Geoff Yang, who may or may not still be on one of the governing boards and who some of you may know.)    The other former member I know of I know most by his reputation--honest--as the victim of OCD.  Those familiar with the USGA  might reasonably assume that OCD, or at least acute anal retentiveness, is a prerequisite for membership on the Rules Committee.  But this "we will think about this and get back to you at the end of the round" breaks their previous course records for stupidity.  A couple few of my pro golfer friends have echoed this on social media.

[Hulk01]

I don't assign the problem to golf generally, but to the WASPish prigs in rep ties that dominate the USGA.  (With the exception of Geoff Yang, who may or may not still be on one of the governing boards and who some of you may know.)    The other former member I know of I know most by his reputation--honest--as the victim of OCD.  Those familiar with the USGA  might reasonably assume that OCD, or at least acute anal retentiveness, is a prerequisite for membership on the Rules Committee.  But this "we will think about this and get back to you at the end of the round" breaks their previous course records for stupidity.  A couple few of my pro golfer friends have echoed this on social media.

[CornFed]

[quote author=Boston Card link=topic=15216.msg165277#msg165277 date=1466438561]
Not a golf player, but I'm married to one; my wife was saying that this is exactly the sort of crap that is causing the game of golf to die out.  The anal retentive adhesion to arcane rules and penalizing people for stuff that is beyond their control is just asinine.

BC

imo, slow play is killing golf, not arcane rules. unless you tee it up in a competition, these rules exist but more in the abstract.

the USGA ruling yesterday was in "d-u-m" dumb category.  not the first time for USGA, but it was poor precedent on a relatively new rule meant to avoid such situations.

on the earlier comments, Oakmont members do like their greens kept very quick.  I have played it in competition when you could not land your approach on the green on #1 and keep it on the green.  granted that was due to a combination of firmness and speed (stimp), but there it is.  having played Augusta not long after the Masters, I'd put Oakmont equal to or faster on green speed.
[/quote]

The situation with Dustin Johnson was handled extremely well on the course, and it was resolved as far as DJ and the rules official knew as they walked off the green.  As Hulk notes in a later post, the audacity of announcing that they (the USGA officials not on the course) were going to conduct a further review and would let DJ know after the round made me apoplectic.  I wish the player had simply insisted on a final ruling before he teed off on the next hole.  The ensuing chaos would have been just desserts for those bast**ds!

I don't know what wikipedia says the green speed was.  The announcers (admittedly third team material) indicated that the greens superintendent told them that he was trying to get the stimp to 16 that morning, but that he only got it to 15.  The hyper speed of the greens was at least partially responsible for the incident w/ DJ.  Thank goodness that the wind was not making the issue impossible.

Slide, if there is ever a Cardboard golf outing, I want to be paired with you.  I've gotten the impression that you can get your way around a course fairly proficiently.  ;D  I,too, have played Oakmont, although it was several (not a couple of) decades ago.  At that time their membership bragged that they had to slow the greens down for the US Open. 

I was told, incidentally, that there was a discussion w/ Nicklaus during the broadcast in which he talked about how much slower greens used to be.  He played on US Open greens that he estimated in retrospect were about 8 on the stimp.  The aprons in front of the greens this weekend were probably at an 8!!!!  I do love watching Shell's Wonderful World of Golf when they show matches from the original program.  Players used significant wristcock when putting because the greens were so slow.  :P

[CornFed]

[quote author=Boston Card link=topic=15216.msg165277#msg165277 date=1466438561]
Not a golf player, but I'm married to one; my wife was saying that this is exactly the sort of crap that is causing the game of golf to die out.  The anal retentive adhesion to arcane rules and penalizing people for stuff that is beyond their control is just asinine.

BC

imo, slow play is killing golf, not arcane rules. unless you tee it up in a competition, these rules exist but more in the abstract.

the USGA ruling yesterday was in "d-u-m" dumb category.  not the first time for USGA, but it was poor precedent on a relatively new rule meant to avoid such situations.

on the earlier comments, Oakmont members do like their greens kept very quick.  I have played it in competition when you could not land your approach on the green on #1 and keep it on the green.  granted that was due to a combination of firmness and speed (stimp), but there it is.  having played Augusta not long after the Masters, I'd put Oakmont equal to or faster on green speed.
[/quote]

The situation with Dustin Johnson was handled extremely well on the course, and it was resolved as far as DJ and the rules official knew as they walked off the green.  As Hulk notes in a later post, the audacity of announcing that they (the USGA officials not on the course) were going to conduct a further review and would let DJ know after the round made me apoplectic.  I wish the player had simply insisted on a final ruling before he teed off on the next hole.  The ensuing chaos would have been just desserts for those bast**ds!

I don't know what wikipedia says the green speed was.  The announcers (admittedly third team material) indicated that the greens superintendent told them that he was trying to get the stimp to 16 that morning, but that he only got it to 15.  The hyper speed of the greens was at least partially responsible for the incident w/ DJ.  Thank goodness that the wind was not making the issue impossible.

Slide, if there is ever a Cardboard golf outing, I want to be paired with you.  I've gotten the impression that you can get your way around a course fairly proficiently.  ;D  I,too, have played Oakmont, although it was several (not a couple of) decades ago.  At that time their membership bragged that they had to slow the greens down for the US Open. 

I was told, incidentally, that there was a discussion w/ Nicklaus during the broadcast in which he talked about how much slower greens used to be.  He played on US Open greens that he estimated in retrospect were about 8 on the stimp.  The aprons in front of the greens this weekend were probably at an 8!!!!  I do love watching Shell's Wonderful World of Golf when they show matches from the original program.  Players used significant wristcock when putting because the greens were so slow.  :P

[slide]

CornFed -- I peaked (if you call it that) in the balata/persimmon/square grooves era.

on Nicklaus, I thought his comments about the US Open fairways today being faster than US Open greens of yore to be pretty interesting.  not sure if it is accurate or not; interesting nonetheless

it is fun to watch some old golf film.  even the "fast" Masters had some fullish turns on putts in the old days -- not the tap stroke of today.

on Masters today, I keep waiting for Billy Payne to announce a "Masters" ball which limits distance and may be return some ability to work the ball more sideways.  they'd be the only tournament who could do so given the invitational nature of the tournament.

[slide]

CornFed -- I peaked (if you call it that) in the balata/persimmon/square grooves era.

on Nicklaus, I thought his comments about the US Open fairways today being faster than US Open greens of yore to be pretty interesting.  not sure if it is accurate or not; interesting nonetheless

it is fun to watch some old golf film.  even the "fast" Masters had some fullish turns on putts in the old days -- not the tap stroke of today.

on Masters today, I keep waiting for Billy Payne to announce a "Masters" ball which limits distance and may be return some ability to work the ball more sideways.  they'd be the only tournament who could do so given the invitational nature of the tournament.

[Mick]

on Nicklaus, I thought his comments about the US Open fairways today being faster than US Open greens of yore to be pretty interesting.

I grew up playing at Pasatiempo, an Alisterr MacKenzie course that was designed and largely constructed in the 1920s.  MacKenzie was a camouflage expert in the military (he was also a trained surgeon) and he brought principles of camouflage to the courses he designed, including Augusta, Cypress Point, Pasatiempo and many, many others.  If you've played the course, you know that there are some very steep slopes on the greens, and those greens were built with late 1920s technology in mind.  Putter technology and technology to manicure greens has improved over the past 87 years, so I suspect that Nicklaus's comment was accurate.  The putters used in the 1960s were pretty terrible.

[Mick]

on Nicklaus, I thought his comments about the US Open fairways today being faster than US Open greens of yore to be pretty interesting.

I grew up playing at Pasatiempo, an Alisterr MacKenzie course that was designed and largely constructed in the 1920s.  MacKenzie was a camouflage expert in the military (he was also a trained surgeon) and he brought principles of camouflage to the courses he designed, including Augusta, Cypress Point, Pasatiempo and many, many others.  If you've played the course, you know that there are some very steep slopes on the greens, and those greens were built with late 1920s technology in mind.  Putter technology and technology to manicure greens has improved over the past 87 years, so I suspect that Nicklaus's comment was accurate.  The putters used in the 1960s were pretty terrible.

[slide]

Mick -- you are a lucky guy to grow up on Pasatiempo.  just a great great track.  on the occasions they shave and roll the greens, you can't afford to be above the hole on #16 and #18.  I've been lucky to play quite a few MacKenzie courses (Pasatiempo, Cypress, Augusta, Moortown, Royal Melbourne, Valley, etc.).  Crystal Downs is one I've not played yet.  it is on my bucket list.

[slide]

Mick -- you are a lucky guy to grow up on Pasatiempo.  just a great great track.  on the occasions they shave and roll the greens, you can't afford to be above the hole on #16 and #18.  I've been lucky to play quite a few MacKenzie courses (Pasatiempo, Cypress, Augusta, Moortown, Royal Melbourne, Valley, etc.).  Crystal Downs is one I've not played yet.  it is on my bucket list.

[Hulk01]

I hit what I thought was a perfect shot to 18, but ended up a club long.  But from the tee, I figured I had a nice lag and tap-in for par.

As slide reveals, I was in trouble.  My putt coming back was almost as long as my "lap" coming down. 

[Hulk01]

I hit what I thought was a perfect shot to 18, but ended up a club long.  But from the tee, I figured I had a nice lag and tap-in for par.

As slide reveals, I was in trouble.  My putt coming back was almost as long as my "lap" coming down. 

[Mick]

Mick -- you are a lucky guy to grow up on Pasatiempo.  just a great great track.  on the occasions they shave and roll the greens, you can't afford to be above the hole on #16 and #18.  I've been lucky to play quite a few MacKenzie courses (Pasatiempo, Cypress, Augusta, Moortown, Royal Melbourne, Valley, etc.).  Crystal Downs is one I've not played yet.  it is on my bucket list.

I was playing with my dad on #16, the hole was on the front-left of the lower tier of the three-tier green and my ball was on the left of the middle tier, giving me a 25 foot putt with a sharp right-to-left break.  Dad's probably played 1,000 rounds at Pasa.  He looks at my ball, walks over to the front right of the green, twenty feet from the hole and says "your best bet is to play it here, or you'll go off the green."  I wanted my birdie/par, missed the high side of the hole by an inch and went off the green, about 40 feet from the hole.  AARRGGHHH!

MacKenzie loved California, and made his permanent home there when he was in his 60s.  His house is the first large house off the left fairway of #6, a long, straight par 5.

There are other Alister MacKenzie courses in the SF Bay Area you might play if you haven't already done so.  Sharp Park in Pacifica, the Meadow Club in Fairfax, Claremont Country Club in Oakland, Green Hills Country Club in Millbrae, Northwood Golf Club in Monte Rio and Haggin Oaks in Sacramento.

And if you venture to SoCal, there's Fort Washington in Fresno and Redlands country Club in Redlands.

[Mick]

Mick -- you are a lucky guy to grow up on Pasatiempo.  just a great great track.  on the occasions they shave and roll the greens, you can't afford to be above the hole on #16 and #18.  I've been lucky to play quite a few MacKenzie courses (Pasatiempo, Cypress, Augusta, Moortown, Royal Melbourne, Valley, etc.).  Crystal Downs is one I've not played yet.  it is on my bucket list.

I was playing with my dad on #16, the hole was on the front-left of the lower tier of the three-tier green and my ball was on the left of the middle tier, giving me a 25 foot putt with a sharp right-to-left break.  Dad's probably played 1,000 rounds at Pasa.  He looks at my ball, walks over to the front right of the green, twenty feet from the hole and says "your best bet is to play it here, or you'll go off the green."  I wanted my birdie/par, missed the high side of the hole by an inch and went off the green, about 40 feet from the hole.  AARRGGHHH!

MacKenzie loved California, and made his permanent home there when he was in his 60s.  His house is the first large house off the left fairway of #6, a long, straight par 5.

There are other Alister MacKenzie courses in the SF Bay Area you might play if you haven't already done so.  Sharp Park in Pacifica, the Meadow Club in Fairfax, Claremont Country Club in Oakland, Green Hills Country Club in Millbrae, Northwood Golf Club in Monte Rio and Haggin Oaks in Sacramento.

And if you venture to SoCal, there's Fort Washington in Fresno and Redlands country Club in Redlands.

[slide]

on #16 one year in a tournament, a guy in my group had about 3' for birdie on the upper tier.  he tried to dunk it, caught a lip and ended up with a par putt from the bottom tier -- may be 70'.  just brutal. 

thanks on the other courses in CA.  sounds like a good road trip.

[slide]

on #16 one year in a tournament, a guy in my group had about 3' for birdie on the upper tier.  he tried to dunk it, caught a lip and ended up with a par putt from the bottom tier -- may be 70'.  just brutal. 

thanks on the other courses in CA.  sounds like a good road trip.

[CowboyIndian]

imo, slow play is killing golf, not arcane rules.

This! Your 30 practice swings just might be a few too many. And if you really knew how to line up a putt, you'd have a caddy and be playing for money. And mulligans are for those days when no one's behind you.

[CowboyIndian]

imo, slow play is killing golf, not arcane rules.

This! Your 30 practice swings just might be a few too many. And if you really knew how to line up a putt, you'd have a caddy and be playing for money. And mulligans are for those days when no one's behind you.

[CornFed]

[quote author=slide link=topic=15216.msg165278#msg165278 date=1466439314]
imo, slow play is killing golf, not arcane rules.

This! Your 30 practice swings just might be a few too many. And if you really knew how to line up a putt, you'd have a caddy and be playing for money. And mulligans are for those days when no one's behind you.
[/quote]

On those occasions when I can tee off as a dewsweeper and play alone (with cart) I can expect to get done in 2 to 2 and 1/2 hours and not race around or feel rushed whatsoever.  I don't typically have to look for balls very often and I'm generally fairly competent, but still. that serves as a baseline.  Even when my 22-handicap buddy and I go out early, we are almost always done in 2 and 1/2 to 3 hours.  The rituals that many players go through are delusional and they only do it because they see pros go through detailed pre-shot routines.  But slow play is due to 1000 tiny cuts.  Time wasted in little unconscious ways that add up surprisingly to very long rounds.

[CornFed]

[quote author=slide link=topic=15216.msg165278#msg165278 date=1466439314]
imo, slow play is killing golf, not arcane rules.

This! Your 30 practice swings just might be a few too many. And if you really knew how to line up a putt, you'd have a caddy and be playing for money. And mulligans are for those days when no one's behind you.
[/quote]

On those occasions when I can tee off as a dewsweeper and play alone (with cart) I can expect to get done in 2 to 2 and 1/2 hours and not race around or feel rushed whatsoever.  I don't typically have to look for balls very often and I'm generally fairly competent, but still. that serves as a baseline.  Even when my 22-handicap buddy and I go out early, we are almost always done in 2 and 1/2 to 3 hours.  The rituals that many players go through are delusional and they only do it because they see pros go through detailed pre-shot routines.  But slow play is due to 1000 tiny cuts.  Time wasted in little unconscious ways that add up surprisingly to very long rounds.

[CornFed]

Pasatiempo is one of my favorites courses anywhere, and I haven't been able to play it in many years.  Didn't they have a scare related to disease in the trees throughout the course?  The last time I played it, 75% of the trees on the course were marked with little silver disks.  I was told that each marked tree was in danger of being removed.  I have been relieved to hear that that never happened, but I never knew why they ducked a bullet.

MacKenzie had a remarkable gift.  I think one of his interesting successes was the Meadow Club in Fairfax.  I have played it many, many times and am continually learning more about its play.  The setting is gorgeous and it is on a fairly tiny parcel of land by golf course design standards.  It invites a player to try to conquer it, and then punishes each flawed swing w/ a proportionate consequence.  Many is the day that I felt I was swinging well and making good contact, only to end up shooting 5 or 6 strokes over my handicap.  You definitely need to be into your round mentally as well on his courses.

[CornFed]

Pasatiempo is one of my favorites courses anywhere, and I haven't been able to play it in many years.  Didn't they have a scare related to disease in the trees throughout the course?  The last time I played it, 75% of the trees on the course were marked with little silver disks.  I was told that each marked tree was in danger of being removed.  I have been relieved to hear that that never happened, but I never knew why they ducked a bullet.

MacKenzie had a remarkable gift.  I think one of his interesting successes was the Meadow Club in Fairfax.  I have played it many, many times and am continually learning more about its play.  The setting is gorgeous and it is on a fairly tiny parcel of land by golf course design standards.  It invites a player to try to conquer it, and then punishes each flawed swing w/ a proportionate consequence.  Many is the day that I felt I was swinging well and making good contact, only to end up shooting 5 or 6 strokes over my handicap.  You definitely need to be into your round mentally as well on his courses.