[FarmBoy]

Votre Dame to vacate wins in 2012-2013 due to trainer's actions


http://www.espn.com/college-football/sto...13-seasons

[FarmBoy]

Votre Dame to vacate wins in 2012-2013 due to trainer's actions


http://www.espn.com/college-football/sto...13-seasons

[cardcrimson]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nca.../94280000/

Fitting. So much else bad there too. . . .

[cardcrimson]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nca.../94280000/

Fitting. So much else bad there too. . . .

[stupac2]

The wins may be gone, but Lennay Kekua will forever live on in our hearts.

[stupac2]

The wins may be gone, but Lennay Kekua will forever live on in our hearts.

[PalmTree]

The wins may be gone, but Lennay Kekua will forever live on in our hearts.

Thanks - I'd almost forgotten to remember her.....

[PalmTree]

The wins may be gone, but Lennay Kekua will forever live on in our hearts.

Thanks - I'd almost forgotten to remember her.....

[Hurlburt88]

Monstrous, and I hope also as the nail in the coffin for Kelly despite the large buy-out.  ND administration prides itself on trying to be moral while striving for academic and athletic excellence simultaneously, and this very public repudiation has got to make at least some top admins take pause.  We'll see the extent of the self-delusion by what happens with Kelly IMO

[Hurlburt88]

Monstrous, and I hope also as the nail in the coffin for Kelly despite the large buy-out.  ND administration prides itself on trying to be moral while striving for academic and athletic excellence simultaneously, and this very public repudiation has got to make at least some top admins take pause.  We'll see the extent of the self-delusion by what happens with Kelly IMO

[Spiny_Norman]

It appears that N.otre Dame has been vacating victories this year the way the played down the stretch of their losses.

Maybe this entire season has been a self-imposed bowl ban.

[Spiny_Norman]

It appears that N.otre Dame has been vacating victories this year the way the played down the stretch of their losses.

Maybe this entire season has been a self-imposed bowl ban.

[jacketree]

Notre Dame just didn't win.  Maybe. "The school must vacate the victories in which the players appeared while ineligible. It is not clear how many of the 21 games those players participated in."  Kelly mentioned Oklahoma, Wake Forest, and "All Those Teams."  Either Stanford doesn't rise to the level of being named, which would be odd given the fairly epic nature of the finish in 2012 (I mean what was so noteworthy about beating flippin' Wake Forest?), or maybe those players that cheated didn't play against Stanford in 2012.

"Monstrous" is going a little far isn't it?  A student trainer helped some football players cheat without anyone's prior knowledge.  But they eventually figured it out and dealt with it. I bet they win their appeal for the vacated wins.  I mean the NCAA being completely fair and honest across the spectrum of their discipline and all.....

Also, this is the same level of violation (Level II) that Stanford was convicted of (if that's the right term) earlier this year and Stanford didn't have to vacate any wins for games in which Cajuste played.  Same $5,000 fine. I think we can only be on a low to medium height horse on this one.

[jacketree]

Notre Dame just didn't win.  Maybe. "The school must vacate the victories in which the players appeared while ineligible. It is not clear how many of the 21 games those players participated in."  Kelly mentioned Oklahoma, Wake Forest, and "All Those Teams."  Either Stanford doesn't rise to the level of being named, which would be odd given the fairly epic nature of the finish in 2012 (I mean what was so noteworthy about beating flippin' Wake Forest?), or maybe those players that cheated didn't play against Stanford in 2012.

"Monstrous" is going a little far isn't it?  A student trainer helped some football players cheat without anyone's prior knowledge.  But they eventually figured it out and dealt with it. I bet they win their appeal for the vacated wins.  I mean the NCAA being completely fair and honest across the spectrum of their discipline and all.....

Also, this is the same level of violation (Level II) that Stanford was convicted of (if that's the right term) earlier this year and Stanford didn't have to vacate any wins for games in which Cajuste played.  Same $5,000 fine. I think we can only be on a low to medium height horse on this one.

[terry]

Vacating No.tre Dame's win in 2012 does not have any effect on Stanford's record. According to the NCAA's Statistics Policies and Guidelines:

"The won-lost records for each of the opposing teams are not changed when games are vacated. Except for any student-athletes declared ineligible, the individual statistics and the opponents’ records are not affected by this action."

[terry]

Vacating No.tre Dame's win in 2012 does not have any effect on Stanford's record. According to the NCAA's Statistics Policies and Guidelines:

"The won-lost records for each of the opposing teams are not changed when games are vacated. Except for any student-athletes declared ineligible, the individual statistics and the opponents’ records are not affected by this action."

[JohnR34231]

Vacating No.tre Dame's win in 2012 does not have any effect on Stanford's record. According to the NCAA's Statistics Policies and Guidelines:

"The won-lost records for each of the opposing teams are not changed when games are vacated. Except for any student-athletes declared ineligible, the individual statistics and the opponents’ records are not affected by this action."

So, in other words, nobody won the 2012 game. Interesting.
Vacating wins always struck me as a little silly. If you won the game you won the game. The NCAA, despite all its powers, can't change history.

[JohnR34231]

Vacating No.tre Dame's win in 2012 does not have any effect on Stanford's record. According to the NCAA's Statistics Policies and Guidelines:

"The won-lost records for each of the opposing teams are not changed when games are vacated. Except for any student-athletes declared ineligible, the individual statistics and the opponents’ records are not affected by this action."

So, in other words, nobody won the 2012 game. Interesting.
Vacating wins always struck me as a little silly. If you won the game you won the game. The NCAA, despite all its powers, can't change history.

[fullmetal]

Not like they can take away USB's national championship berth earned by that Stanford "non-win" now...I mean, that team was a fraud on the field as well to some extent.  What a snoozer of a NCG.

[fullmetal]

Not like they can take away USB's national championship berth earned by that Stanford "non-win" now...I mean, that team was a fraud on the field as well to some extent.  What a snoozer of a NCG.

[stupac2]

Also, this is the same level of violation (Level II) that Stanford was convicted of (if that's the right term) earlier this year and Stanford didn't have to vacate any wins for games in which Cajuste played.  Same $5,000 fine. I think we can only be on a low to medium height horse on this one.

My understanding is that Cajuste didn't play in any games between the time of his impermissible benefits and his punishment for accepting them. Either way I think "sweetheart loan for a bike and a couple movie tickets" is a different thing from "academic fraud", whatever the NCAA thinks be damned.

So, in other words, nobody won the 2012 game. Interesting.
Vacating wins always struck me as a little silly. If you won the game you won the game. The NCAA, despite all its powers, can't change history.

Is it at all surprising that the NCAA does something monumentally silly?

[stupac2]

Also, this is the same level of violation (Level II) that Stanford was convicted of (if that's the right term) earlier this year and Stanford didn't have to vacate any wins for games in which Cajuste played.  Same $5,000 fine. I think we can only be on a low to medium height horse on this one.

My understanding is that Cajuste didn't play in any games between the time of his impermissible benefits and his punishment for accepting them. Either way I think "sweetheart loan for a bike and a couple movie tickets" is a different thing from "academic fraud", whatever the NCAA thinks be damned.

So, in other words, nobody won the 2012 game. Interesting.
Vacating wins always struck me as a little silly. If you won the game you won the game. The NCAA, despite all its powers, can't change history.

Is it at all surprising that the NCAA does something monumentally silly?

[Mick]

Monstrous, and I hope also as the nail in the coffin for Kelly despite the large buy-out.  ND administration prides itself on trying to be moral while striving for academic and athletic excellence simultaneously, and this very public repudiation has got to make at least some top admins take pause.  We'll see the extent of the self-delusion by what happens with Kelly IMO

You're talking about a faith based institution.  Self-delusion will run pretty deep.

[Mick]

Monstrous, and I hope also as the nail in the coffin for Kelly despite the large buy-out.  ND administration prides itself on trying to be moral while striving for academic and athletic excellence simultaneously, and this very public repudiation has got to make at least some top admins take pause.  We'll see the extent of the self-delusion by what happens with Kelly IMO

You're talking about a faith based institution.  Self-delusion will run pretty deep.

[Papa John]

So should the subject of this topic be changed, lest the CARDboard be labeled a fake new site? N.otre Dame did not win the 2012 game, but Stanford, officially speaking, still lost it.

[Papa John]

So should the subject of this topic be changed, lest the CARDboard be labeled a fake new site? N.otre Dame did not win the 2012 game, but Stanford, officially speaking, still lost it.

[JJJ]

So should the subject of this topic be changed, lest the CARDboard be labeled a fake new site? N.otre Dame did not win the 2012 game, but Stanford, officially speaking, still lost it.

Good point, but I'm wondering how many people in the outside world consider us a news site, either real or fake... I think we're safe. 8)

[JJJ]

So should the subject of this topic be changed, lest the CARDboard be labeled a fake new site? N.otre Dame did not win the 2012 game, but Stanford, officially speaking, still lost it.

Good point, but I'm wondering how many people in the outside world consider us a news site, either real or fake... I think we're safe. 8)

[jacketree]

My understanding is that Cajuste didn't play in any games between the time of his impermissible benefits and his punishment for accepting them. Either way I think "sweetheart loan for a bike and a couple movie tickets" is a different thing from "academic fraud", whatever the NCAA thinks be damned.

Ah, good point; thanks for the correction.

Still I don't think a student trainer helping student athletes cheat rises to the level of "academic fraud", not as it does for UNC, which had nothing vacated of which I am aware.

FWLIW, as a Stanford TA I caught two football players cheating on an exam I graded.  Pretty universal activity. If the trainer hadn't been involved, nothing would have happened here.  I guess that is somewhat the point, but hardly the stuff of a 30 for 30 expose.

[jacketree]

My understanding is that Cajuste didn't play in any games between the time of his impermissible benefits and his punishment for accepting them. Either way I think "sweetheart loan for a bike and a couple movie tickets" is a different thing from "academic fraud", whatever the NCAA thinks be damned.

Ah, good point; thanks for the correction.

Still I don't think a student trainer helping student athletes cheat rises to the level of "academic fraud", not as it does for UNC, which had nothing vacated of which I am aware.

FWLIW, as a Stanford TA I caught two football players cheating on an exam I graded.  Pretty universal activity. If the trainer hadn't been involved, nothing would have happened here.  I guess that is somewhat the point, but hardly the stuff of a 30 for 30 expose.

[Hurlburt88]

I wonder if ND is starting to get caught in the cumulative impact of multiple issues here.  We have listed them many times over Kelly's tenure--could be that NCAA is taking notice of the trend also.  For the sake of college athletics in general, I sincerely hope Purple-face exits ignominiously and sincere attempts made to tighten things up. 

[Hurlburt88]

I wonder if ND is starting to get caught in the cumulative impact of multiple issues here.  We have listed them many times over Kelly's tenure--could be that NCAA is taking notice of the trend also.  For the sake of college athletics in general, I sincerely hope Purple-face exits ignominiously and sincere attempts made to tighten things up. 

[Hurlburt88]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrQ-EgjJZsk 

Maybe Purple-Face can take a page from Jackie Chiles

[Hurlburt88]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrQ-EgjJZsk 

Maybe Purple-Face can take a page from Jackie Chiles

[JJJ]

Slightly OT but still somewhat related:

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/former-miss...50444.html

[JJJ]

Slightly OT but still somewhat related:

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/former-miss...50444.html

[fullmetal]

Wow, that's going to be ugly.  And I think there are going to be plenty of angry Mizzou fans who will unfairly blame Yolanda directly.

[fullmetal]

Wow, that's going to be ugly.  And I think there are going to be plenty of angry Mizzou fans who will unfairly blame Yolanda directly.