[Spiny_Norman]

All Band activities are suspended immediately through spring 2017.

http://news.stanford.edu/2016/12/09/univ...ford-band/

[Spiny_Norman]

All Band activities are suspended immediately through spring 2017.

http://news.stanford.edu/2016/12/09/univ...ford-band/

[JJJ]

All Band activities are suspended immediately through spring 2017.

http://news.stanford.edu/2016/12/09/univ...ford-band/

To whom shall we direct our outrage this time?

[JJJ]

All Band activities are suspended immediately through spring 2017.

http://news.stanford.edu/2016/12/09/univ...ford-band/

To whom shall we direct our outrage this time?

[Viking_Guy]

For background, you may want to read this:

http://us9.campaign-archive2.com/?u=c9d7...eb75a0c31e

The Fountain Hopper is sort of an underground blog around things at Stanford that aren't as shiny as they would like the brand to be.

And I find the timing of this (just after the latest round of sexual assault stories at Stanford, and as a Friday news dump), a bit curious.

VG

[Viking_Guy]

For background, you may want to read this:

http://us9.campaign-archive2.com/?u=c9d7...eb75a0c31e

The Fountain Hopper is sort of an underground blog around things at Stanford that aren't as shiny as they would like the brand to be.

And I find the timing of this (just after the latest round of sexual assault stories at Stanford, and as a Friday news dump), a bit curious.

VG

[Spiny_Norman]

[quote author=Spiny_Norman link=topic=16257.msg182035#msg182035 date=1481332431]
All Band activities are suspended immediately through spring 2017.

http://news.stanford.edu/2016/12/09/univ...ford-band/

To whom shall we direct our outrage this time?
[/quote]

Comments should probably be directed to Greg Boardman, Vice Provost for Student Affairs - vpstudentaffairs@stanford.edu

[Spiny_Norman]

[quote author=Spiny_Norman link=topic=16257.msg182035#msg182035 date=1481332431]
All Band activities are suspended immediately through spring 2017.

http://news.stanford.edu/2016/12/09/univ...ford-band/

To whom shall we direct our outrage this time?
[/quote]

Comments should probably be directed to Greg Boardman, Vice Provost for Student Affairs - vpstudentaffairs@stanford.edu

[Viking_Guy]

Spiny--

This is one of the things that's problematic - Boardman and others have been saying "Well, there are serious problems, but I can't tell you what they are, because they're part of a confidential investigation, but you have to fix them" to the band for about 18 months.

VG

[Viking_Guy]

Spiny--

This is one of the things that's problematic - Boardman and others have been saying "Well, there are serious problems, but I can't tell you what they are, because they're part of a confidential investigation, but you have to fix them" to the band for about 18 months.

VG

[stupac2]

For background, you may want to read this:

http://us9.campaign-archive2.com/?u=c9d7...eb75a0c31e

The Fountain Hopper is sort of an underground blog around things at Stanford that aren't as shiny as they would like the brand to be.

And I find the timing of this (just after the latest round of sexual assault stories at Stanford, and as a Friday news dump), a bit curious.

VG

I can't take this site seriously when it's formatted like that.

[stupac2]

For background, you may want to read this:

http://us9.campaign-archive2.com/?u=c9d7...eb75a0c31e

The Fountain Hopper is sort of an underground blog around things at Stanford that aren't as shiny as they would like the brand to be.

And I find the timing of this (just after the latest round of sexual assault stories at Stanford, and as a Friday news dump), a bit curious.

VG

I can't take this site seriously when it's formatted like that.

[JJJ]

For background, you may want to read this:

http://us9.campaign-archive2.com/?u=c9d7...eb75a0c31e

The Fountain Hopper is sort of an underground blog around things at Stanford that aren't as shiny as they would like the brand to be.

And I find the timing of this (just after the latest round of sexual assault stories at Stanford, and as a Friday news dump), a bit curious.

VG

Thanks for sharing the "FOHO"--explains a lot AND makes many good points. Not surprising the administration doesn't like them. But it's a sad situation for the current students and the overall community.

[JJJ]

For background, you may want to read this:

http://us9.campaign-archive2.com/?u=c9d7...eb75a0c31e

The Fountain Hopper is sort of an underground blog around things at Stanford that aren't as shiny as they would like the brand to be.

And I find the timing of this (just after the latest round of sexual assault stories at Stanford, and as a Friday news dump), a bit curious.

VG

Thanks for sharing the "FOHO"--explains a lot AND makes many good points. Not surprising the administration doesn't like them. But it's a sad situation for the current students and the overall community.

[winflop]

If Stanford's statement is to be believed, while on travel ban for alcohol violations among other issues, the Band had more alcohol violations.  If true I'd say the action is warranted.

However, in light of the recent lawsuit, past recent issues, and the cloak of secrecy, Stanford has ZERO credibility here.  Broadman might as well change his name to Wormer.

[winflop]

If Stanford's statement is to be believed, while on travel ban for alcohol violations among other issues, the Band had more alcohol violations.  If true I'd say the action is warranted.

However, in light of the recent lawsuit, past recent issues, and the cloak of secrecy, Stanford has ZERO credibility here.  Broadman might as well change his name to Wormer.

[fullmetal]

The FoHo feels like a TMZ-style blog (that is, no style, but interesting tidbits).  I gotta say, it's not a bad way to get your message across.  Help, I'm slowly becoming a millenial...  :'(

[fullmetal]

The FoHo feels like a TMZ-style blog (that is, no style, but interesting tidbits).  I gotta say, it's not a bad way to get your message across.  Help, I'm slowly becoming a millenial...  :'(

[Viking_Guy]

Win--

One of the problems with this whole thing?  The band has been told "you can't contest the violations", only the sanctions.  In other words, they don't have to defend their "evidence."

For reference, a few years back, the band got in a short-lived spot of trouble because one of the administrators saw what she said was a depiction of male genitalia on the field.  The formation was "soap on a rope" - a square bar of soap with an irregular elliptical line of people as the rope.  When presented with a photo, another administrator literally laughed at her.  In this process, that evidence would be unassailable.

VG

[Viking_Guy]

Win--

One of the problems with this whole thing?  The band has been told "you can't contest the violations", only the sanctions.  In other words, they don't have to defend their "evidence."

For reference, a few years back, the band got in a short-lived spot of trouble because one of the administrators saw what she said was a depiction of male genitalia on the field.  The formation was "soap on a rope" - a square bar of soap with an irregular elliptical line of people as the rope.  When presented with a photo, another administrator literally laughed at her.  In this process, that evidence would be unassailable.

VG

[winflop]

One of the problems with this whole thing?  The band has been told "you can't contest the violations", only the sanctions.  In other words, they don't have to defend their "evidence."

For reference, a few years back, the band got in a short-lived spot of trouble because one of the administrators saw what she said was a depiction of male genitalia on the field.  The formation was "soap on a rope" - a square bar of soap with an irregular elliptical line of people as the rope.  When presented with a photo, another administrator literally laughed at her.  In this process, that evidence would be unassailable.

VG

This is one of MANY problems

[winflop]

One of the problems with this whole thing?  The band has been told "you can't contest the violations", only the sanctions.  In other words, they don't have to defend their "evidence."

For reference, a few years back, the band got in a short-lived spot of trouble because one of the administrators saw what she said was a depiction of male genitalia on the field.  The formation was "soap on a rope" - a square bar of soap with an irregular elliptical line of people as the rope.  When presented with a photo, another administrator literally laughed at her.  In this process, that evidence would be unassailable.

VG

This is one of MANY problems

[Stymie]

To quote Ty Webb:

"Is this Russia?"

Dean Wormer needs to go.  18-year olds are legally adults and should have the right to do stupid things, as long as they understand that there are consequences.

Stanford football without the band is like chili con carne without the chilis, the Who without Keith Moon, love without respect, humanity without the singularity, etc. etc. etc.

I despair at the lack of a sense of humor of the people running LSJU these days.  Let this dark age disappear and the renaissance arise from its ashes.

Stymie

[Stymie]

To quote Ty Webb:

"Is this Russia?"

Dean Wormer needs to go.  18-year olds are legally adults and should have the right to do stupid things, as long as they understand that there are consequences.

Stanford football without the band is like chili con carne without the chilis, the Who without Keith Moon, love without respect, humanity without the singularity, etc. etc. etc.

I despair at the lack of a sense of humor of the people running LSJU these days.  Let this dark age disappear and the renaissance arise from its ashes.

Stymie

[TreesAndBirds]

The UNC admin probably is greatly relieved that the Band wont be going to the Sun Bowl. The Band might have given them some well earned publicity for the shameful way they ran some of their classes.

[TreesAndBirds]

The UNC admin probably is greatly relieved that the Band wont be going to the Sun Bowl. The Band might have given them some well earned publicity for the shameful way they ran some of their classes.

[81alum]

When it says that all band activities are suspended, does this really mean all activities?  As in...the band won't be playing at home basketball games, etc?

[81alum]

When it says that all band activities are suspended, does this really mean all activities?  As in...the band won't be playing at home basketball games, etc?

[winflop]

When it says that all band activities are suspended, does this really mean all activities?  As in...the band won't be playing at home basketball games, etc?

Yep

[winflop]

When it says that all band activities are suspended, does this really mean all activities?  As in...the band won't be playing at home basketball games, etc?

Yep

[JJJ]

When it says that all band activities are suspended, does this really mean all activities?  As in...the band won't be playing at home basketball games, etc?

*Added later for the benefit of those who cannot click on the linked letter.

In lieu of the panel’s recommendation that the Band be suspended
and lose recognition for the better part of two academic years,
I am imposing a temporary suspension of all Band activities effective immediately
through Spring Quarter, 2017.  This action requires cessation of all Band
activities both on and off-campus.

It's not just the games. I recommend you read the linked letter. You can't even get together a couple of buddies to play in public, even if it's for a good cause.  I have total sympathy with the band for getting sick and tired of following each new demand imposed upon them.

During the suspension of Band activities, as individual students you are free to interact and
socialize as any Stanford student would. Groups of Band students may not, however, imply or
engage in any activity (e.g. performances, rallies, events or other activities) that would cause a
reasonable person to believe that you are representatives of the Leland Stanford Junior University
Marching Band.  Failure to abide by the full suspension of Band activities could result in
individual disciplinary action.

[JJJ]

When it says that all band activities are suspended, does this really mean all activities?  As in...the band won't be playing at home basketball games, etc?

*Added later for the benefit of those who cannot click on the linked letter.

In lieu of the panel’s recommendation that the Band be suspended
and lose recognition for the better part of two academic years,
I am imposing a temporary suspension of all Band activities effective immediately
through Spring Quarter, 2017.  This action requires cessation of all Band
activities both on and off-campus.

It's not just the games. I recommend you read the linked letter. You can't even get together a couple of buddies to play in public, even if it's for a good cause.  I have total sympathy with the band for getting sick and tired of following each new demand imposed upon them.

During the suspension of Band activities, as individual students you are free to interact and
socialize as any Stanford student would. Groups of Band students may not, however, imply or
engage in any activity (e.g. performances, rallies, events or other activities) that would cause a
reasonable person to believe that you are representatives of the Leland Stanford Junior University
Marching Band.  Failure to abide by the full suspension of Band activities could result in
individual disciplinary action.

[81alum]

Well, I have no idea what the band's problems actually are, and I guess we won't have a way of judging since there is so much secrecy.  But 1) this is a real shame.  I find the basketball games without the band (and there were always a few) to feel sterile and cold.  The pep band even plays reasonably well, and watching the Dollies' 40 year old choreography is always nostalgic and entertaining.  2) I do not trust vague statements by the administration on this.  I presume something this serious involves Title IX violations.  3) I also don't understand why the individual offenders can't be disciplined and the rest of the band left alone. 

Perhaps we should apply the same logic to the Stanford administration.  It's failure to adequately deal with the rash of sexual assaults should result in the entire administration being fired.

Who was the old music director?

*** EDIT Ah, I thought the online statement was the letter.  I've read the attached letter now.  Such a shame

And I guess they did not have an Arthur Barnes type director, but they will.

[81alum]

Well, I have no idea what the band's problems actually are, and I guess we won't have a way of judging since there is so much secrecy.  But 1) this is a real shame.  I find the basketball games without the band (and there were always a few) to feel sterile and cold.  The pep band even plays reasonably well, and watching the Dollies' 40 year old choreography is always nostalgic and entertaining.  2) I do not trust vague statements by the administration on this.  I presume something this serious involves Title IX violations.  3) I also don't understand why the individual offenders can't be disciplined and the rest of the band left alone. 

Perhaps we should apply the same logic to the Stanford administration.  It's failure to adequately deal with the rash of sexual assaults should result in the entire administration being fired.

Who was the old music director?

*** EDIT Ah, I thought the online statement was the letter.  I've read the attached letter now.  Such a shame

And I guess they did not have an Arthur Barnes type director, but they will.

[Viking_Guy]

81A--

Your second-to-last point (along with this coming down on the Friday of Dead Week, when no Daily will be out for a few weeks) is I think why this is happening as it is.  I've talked with a Title IX lawyer, and her opinion was that essentially highly visible actions like this are likely at least in part an effort to immunize themselves against more serious charges and accusations.  "See, we have policies to prevent this stuff!  And look, we punished this organization that transgressed!"  Of course, the band itself had policies against a lot of this stuff, and has suspended/exiled/removed from events individuals who have violated them (here, I'm speaking of mostly alcohol-related issues).

Maybe the Title IX office suffers from a lack of institutional control?

VG

[Viking_Guy]

81A--

Your second-to-last point (along with this coming down on the Friday of Dead Week, when no Daily will be out for a few weeks) is I think why this is happening as it is.  I've talked with a Title IX lawyer, and her opinion was that essentially highly visible actions like this are likely at least in part an effort to immunize themselves against more serious charges and accusations.  "See, we have policies to prevent this stuff!  And look, we punished this organization that transgressed!"  Of course, the band itself had policies against a lot of this stuff, and has suspended/exiled/removed from events individuals who have violated them (here, I'm speaking of mostly alcohol-related issues).

Maybe the Title IX office suffers from a lack of institutional control?

VG

[81alum]

Well, Stanford can't exactly say to the world that it is doing a good job on the Title IX front.  And given the horrific publicity of late, and the fact that the C.al provost and chancellor were fired for Title IX incidents, I would guess that the administration is looking for opportunities to project a better image, and the Band is such a symbolic target.  So yes, I can easily see this being a convenient public scapegoating.  Individuals should be culpable for whatever violations took place, but that would not make the publicity splash that banning an iconic symbol will make.

[81alum]

Well, Stanford can't exactly say to the world that it is doing a good job on the Title IX front.  And given the horrific publicity of late, and the fact that the C.al provost and chancellor were fired for Title IX incidents, I would guess that the administration is looking for opportunities to project a better image, and the Band is such a symbolic target.  So yes, I can easily see this being a convenient public scapegoating.  Individuals should be culpable for whatever violations took place, but that would not make the publicity splash that banning an iconic symbol will make.

[Spiny_Norman]

Take a read through the two documents that Fountain Hopper posted to get more detail on the University's requirements and how the Band missed meeting them.

Letter that explains why the University denied the Band's request for a waiver that would have allowed them to go to Big Game
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B80jabH...5wMFE/view

The "long list of everything Title IX does not like about the Band"
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B80jabH...IzWFk/view

[Spiny_Norman]

Take a read through the two documents that Fountain Hopper posted to get more detail on the University's requirements and how the Band missed meeting them.

Letter that explains why the University denied the Band's request for a waiver that would have allowed them to go to Big Game
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B80jabH...5wMFE/view

The "long list of everything Title IX does not like about the Band"
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B80jabH...IzWFk/view