[BobK]

From go Stanford

http://www.gostanford.com/news/2017/3/20...eview.aspx

[BobK]

From go Stanford

http://www.gostanford.com/news/2017/3/20...eview.aspx

[DenverCard]

By now, readers of the swimming threads on the Cardboard are no doubt well-trained to go to swimswam.com for all of the swimming information they want, and more.  But for ease of clicking, here's an interview of the mid- and longer distance stars of the team, two of whom are very promising freshman:

https://swimswam.com/pre-ncaa-interview-...tser-egan/

[DenverCard]

By now, readers of the swimming threads on the Cardboard are no doubt well-trained to go to swimswam.com for all of the swimming information they want, and more.  But for ease of clicking, here's an interview of the mid- and longer distance stars of the team, two of whom are very promising freshman:

https://swimswam.com/pre-ncaa-interview-...tser-egan/

[vppolo]

If you have any swimming background at all, this is a fantastic interview.  If not, it's still a good one.

[vppolo]

If you have any swimming background at all, this is a fantastic interview.  If not, it's still a good one.

[fullmetal]

That's a fun read :)  I wonder what the coach thinks of his workouts being published like that...I know that the context is sparse and that training plans can't be effective excerpted...but still, that's part of the secret sauce :)

By the way, Texas is tabbed for strong diving this year.  I noticed a familiar name on the Texas diving coaching roster--Rick Schavone, as a volunteer coach.  I mean...come ON!  ;)  Also, former Stanford diver Dwight Dumais is a co-coach of the Longhorn Aquatics club diving team.  I believe his older brother Troy (who was a star diver for Texas and tenured US Olympian) still also lives in Austin.

[fullmetal]

That's a fun read :)  I wonder what the coach thinks of his workouts being published like that...I know that the context is sparse and that training plans can't be effective excerpted...but still, that's part of the secret sauce :)

By the way, Texas is tabbed for strong diving this year.  I noticed a familiar name on the Texas diving coaching roster--Rick Schavone, as a volunteer coach.  I mean...come ON!  ;)  Also, former Stanford diver Dwight Dumais is a co-coach of the Longhorn Aquatics club diving team.  I believe his older brother Troy (who was a star diver for Texas and tenured US Olympian) still also lives in Austin.

[BigEasyCard]

Stanford Men finish 7th in the 800 Freestyle Relay:

http://www.sidearmstats.com/ncaa/swimming/index.htm

Winner NC State set a new NCAA record.

Geaux Cardinal!

[BigEasyCard]

Stanford Men finish 7th in the 800 Freestyle Relay:

http://www.sidearmstats.com/ncaa/swimming/index.htm

Winner NC State set a new NCAA record.

Geaux Cardinal!

[BigEasyCard]

At conclusion of Day 2 Stanford is in sixth place.

http://www.sidearmstats.com/ncaa/swimming/index.htm

Men - Team Rankings - Through Event 7                     

  1. Texas                          225.5  2. California                        143
  3. Florida                        138.5  4. NC State                          123
  5. Indiana                          121  6. Stanford                          105
  7. Southern Cali                  75  8. Univ of Georgia                  73
  9. Missouri                        71.5  10. Auburn                          69.5

Geaux Cardinal!

[BigEasyCard]

At conclusion of Day 2 Stanford is in sixth place.

http://www.sidearmstats.com/ncaa/swimming/index.htm

Men - Team Rankings - Through Event 7                     

  1. Texas                          225.5  2. California                        143
  3. Florida                        138.5  4. NC State                          123
  5. Indiana                          121  6. Stanford                          105
  7. Southern Cali                  75  8. Univ of Georgia                  73
  9. Missouri                        71.5  10. Auburn                          69.5

Geaux Cardinal!

[DenverCard]

Update on the swimming -- And a suggestion that tonight's finals will be very exciting, if properly framed by Stanford fans:

Through day 3 of 4, culminating last night, here are the standings:

Men - Team Rankings - Through Event 14                     

  1. Texas                          391.5  2. California                        253
  3. Florida                        224.5  4. NC State                          196
  5. Indiana                        189.5  6. Stanford                          160
  7. Southern Cali                  142.5  8. Univ of Georgia                  141
  9. Missouri                        135.5  10. Louisville                      102.5

Recall that after Pac-12s, coach Knapp stated that the goal for NCAAs was 5th place, or maybe 4th.  In the glow of winning Pac-12's, I thought that was reasonable.  However, after reviewing the seeding at NCAAs, it was clear that while Stanford had a lot of qualifiers, it was not likely that they would have many high scoring swims.  They have a lot of very good swimmers (good enough to qualify for the championships, which is quite difficult) but not enough to score a lot of points once there.  I concluded that 4th or 5th was far too ambitious.

Fast forward to midway through the final day.  (As I write, prelims have been completed, apart from platform diving and the 1650).  Stanford has been swimming fantastic today.  Exceeding expectations.  The guys are undoubtedly fried from going all out for 3 1/2 days, but are gutsing it out.  Sam Perry, in particular, has been amazing in the 100, which he swam in the individual event and to lead off the 4 X 100 relay.  And through a combination of eking out small points in the individual events, and unexpectedly qualifying relays for the A final, Stanford finds themselves in the position of having a chance to get as high as 4th, after all.  To happen, they likely need all of the following three outcomes:

1) They must exceed their seeds in the consolation finals of the 200 back and 200 fly.  In the former, they have the 15th and 16th overall qualifiers.  If they don't move up, that's 3 total points.  If they do, they could score as many as 16 (if they finish in the top two of the consolation finals, which is 9th and 10th overall).  A goal of 10 points from that race is optimistic, but not impossible.  In the 200 fly, they have the 14th and 15th seeded swimmers.  Good for 5 points as it stands, but there are additional points for the taking.

[Contrast to Georgia, which has 3 A finalists (i.e. 1-8) in the 200 fly.  Interestingly, Georgia has the 17th place qualifier in the 200 back and 200 breast -- just out of the money.  Oh, and thus far, Stanford has had three A finalists in the entire meet.]

2) Stanford must do well in the 1650.  They have 3 potential scorers, and if all breaks right, perhaps 2 might make the A final.  However, our best swimmer in that event, True Sweetster, crashed and burned in the final of the 500 free two days ago.  In the prelims he was 4:13 or so, and went 4:20 in the finals.  I hope that he just depleted himself in the prelims and has recharged by now, and that nothing else happened, such as injury or illness.

3) Stanford needs a propitious outcome in platform diving.  Indiana has been making a living on diving (probably about a third to their points).  Stanford has a couple of divers who might score.  Those points are needed, along with a little schadenfreude re Indiana (sorry).

Swimswam.com usually calculates the projected outcome shortly before the finals.  I don't have time to do a more detailed quantitative analysis, but the actual numbers will only confirm the qualitative assessment provided here.  A 4th place finish would represent a tremendous accomplishment relative to reasonable expectations.  Given the total team effort from Stanford, as reflected in numerous scoring from consolation finals and relays, coupled with the uncertainty surrounding the outcome, I'm as excited for tonight as I would be if Stanford were competing to win the event.

The finals start at 3:00 Pacific, streamed on ESPN.

[DenverCard]

Update on the swimming -- And a suggestion that tonight's finals will be very exciting, if properly framed by Stanford fans:

Through day 3 of 4, culminating last night, here are the standings:

Men - Team Rankings - Through Event 14                     

  1. Texas                          391.5  2. California                        253
  3. Florida                        224.5  4. NC State                          196
  5. Indiana                        189.5  6. Stanford                          160
  7. Southern Cali                  142.5  8. Univ of Georgia                  141
  9. Missouri                        135.5  10. Louisville                      102.5

Recall that after Pac-12s, coach Knapp stated that the goal for NCAAs was 5th place, or maybe 4th.  In the glow of winning Pac-12's, I thought that was reasonable.  However, after reviewing the seeding at NCAAs, it was clear that while Stanford had a lot of qualifiers, it was not likely that they would have many high scoring swims.  They have a lot of very good swimmers (good enough to qualify for the championships, which is quite difficult) but not enough to score a lot of points once there.  I concluded that 4th or 5th was far too ambitious.

Fast forward to midway through the final day.  (As I write, prelims have been completed, apart from platform diving and the 1650).  Stanford has been swimming fantastic today.  Exceeding expectations.  The guys are undoubtedly fried from going all out for 3 1/2 days, but are gutsing it out.  Sam Perry, in particular, has been amazing in the 100, which he swam in the individual event and to lead off the 4 X 100 relay.  And through a combination of eking out small points in the individual events, and unexpectedly qualifying relays for the A final, Stanford finds themselves in the position of having a chance to get as high as 4th, after all.  To happen, they likely need all of the following three outcomes:

1) They must exceed their seeds in the consolation finals of the 200 back and 200 fly.  In the former, they have the 15th and 16th overall qualifiers.  If they don't move up, that's 3 total points.  If they do, they could score as many as 16 (if they finish in the top two of the consolation finals, which is 9th and 10th overall).  A goal of 10 points from that race is optimistic, but not impossible.  In the 200 fly, they have the 14th and 15th seeded swimmers.  Good for 5 points as it stands, but there are additional points for the taking.

[Contrast to Georgia, which has 3 A finalists (i.e. 1-8) in the 200 fly.  Interestingly, Georgia has the 17th place qualifier in the 200 back and 200 breast -- just out of the money.  Oh, and thus far, Stanford has had three A finalists in the entire meet.]

2) Stanford must do well in the 1650.  They have 3 potential scorers, and if all breaks right, perhaps 2 might make the A final.  However, our best swimmer in that event, True Sweetster, crashed and burned in the final of the 500 free two days ago.  In the prelims he was 4:13 or so, and went 4:20 in the finals.  I hope that he just depleted himself in the prelims and has recharged by now, and that nothing else happened, such as injury or illness.

3) Stanford needs a propitious outcome in platform diving.  Indiana has been making a living on diving (probably about a third to their points).  Stanford has a couple of divers who might score.  Those points are needed, along with a little schadenfreude re Indiana (sorry).

Swimswam.com usually calculates the projected outcome shortly before the finals.  I don't have time to do a more detailed quantitative analysis, but the actual numbers will only confirm the qualitative assessment provided here.  A 4th place finish would represent a tremendous accomplishment relative to reasonable expectations.  Given the total team effort from Stanford, as reflected in numerous scoring from consolation finals and relays, coupled with the uncertainty surrounding the outcome, I'm as excited for tonight as I would be if Stanford were competing to win the event.

The finals start at 3:00 Pacific, streamed on ESPN.

[DenverCard]

Feeling like Rodney Dangerfield --

As expected, the team at swimswam did their calculations, and prima facie, I was too optimistic, once again:

https://swimswam.com/2017-m-ncaa-updowns...attle-5th/

But this assumes no change in any of the places as a result of the finals, and it doesn't take into consideration the 1650, which is still to take place. So hope for a higher finish than 7th remains.  However, it seems that I failed to register some of NC State's swimmers, as they're solidly slated to finish 4th.

Still, much uncertainty remains, which is what makes it fun to track.

[DenverCard]

Feeling like Rodney Dangerfield --

As expected, the team at swimswam did their calculations, and prima facie, I was too optimistic, once again:

https://swimswam.com/2017-m-ncaa-updowns...attle-5th/

But this assumes no change in any of the places as a result of the finals, and it doesn't take into consideration the 1650, which is still to take place. So hope for a higher finish than 7th remains.  However, it seems that I failed to register some of NC State's swimmers, as they're solidly slated to finish 4th.

Still, much uncertainty remains, which is what makes it fun to track.

[BigEasyCard]

In any event, this year's performance constitutes a significant improvement over last year's 14th place finish.

Geaux Cardinal!

[BigEasyCard]

In any event, this year's performance constitutes a significant improvement over last year's 14th place finish.

Geaux Cardinal!

[unclechuck]

GeoCards, MT, et al. - have greatly enjoyed the uptick in swimming coverage on the board the last couple years. After last year's heartbreak it was delightful to see the women come back so decisively to add to our NC totals.

Open question: what does the men's team need to do to bolster our sprint corps so that we can start harvesting those big relay points from high A final finishes? Do we need to focus on recruiting internationally, or can we go head to head with Texas and the SEC schools for domestic sprinters? Is a head coach known for his distance chops a liability (e.g.:T&F with Vin) and if so how do we acquire that expertise?

[unclechuck]

GeoCards, MT, et al. - have greatly enjoyed the uptick in swimming coverage on the board the last couple years. After last year's heartbreak it was delightful to see the women come back so decisively to add to our NC totals.

Open question: what does the men's team need to do to bolster our sprint corps so that we can start harvesting those big relay points from high A final finishes? Do we need to focus on recruiting internationally, or can we go head to head with Texas and the SEC schools for domestic sprinters? Is a head coach known for his distance chops a liability (e.g.:T&F with Vin) and if so how do we acquire that expertise?

[DenverCard]

Excellent last day and outcome for the boys with the big cardinal S on their caps.  The fought their way to 5th place.  Per the number crunching of swimswam, Stanford most exceeded expectations relative to their entry times on the last day of the meet:

https://swimswam.com/ncaa-men-scoring-ch...eet-day-4/

Compared to their streak of like 30 (+/-) years of top 4 finishes that ended several years back, 5th place would not seem worth celebrating.  But the air went out of the sails at the end of that streak, and the team has been in a rebuilding mode for the last few years.  As pointed out by BigEasy, they made tremendous gains relative to last year.

Still, a steady stream of top recruits is critical.  Per my entirely unscientific observation, many sub-elite swimmers tail off by their junior and senior years in college.  I speculate that without the goal of first obtaining a college scholarship, then making NCAAs for the first time, and then, if applicable, the prospect of qualifying for the Olympics, a 20 or 21-year-old swimmer must question why he's sacrificing so much, while all his peers are enjoying a much more diverse college experience.  And with any wavering of the motivation, one quickly falls from NCAA finalist to also ran.  So a steady source of fresh talent is critical.

However, it seems that the Stanford men's team doesn't have the cache of Texas or Cal for the very top high school swimmers, many of whom are apt to think more in terms of short-term swimming success than the 40-year decision, even without the promise of a lucrative pro career.  Among the masses who post on swimswam, Stanford has a reputation for being a place where good swimmers go to stagnate -- that the swimmers Stanford recruits tend to peak before, rather than after, getting to college.  (Whether that is a criticism of the coaching or a backhanded compliment to all that Stanford offers, I don't know.)

As to unclechuck's question, it does seem that Stanford holds greater appeal to distance swimmers, likely due both to recent success and the draw of the assistant coach, Jeff Kostoff, who himself was an elite distance swimmer.  But sprinters are much more valuable in terms of scoring, as unclechuck pointed out.  So that'll continue to be a challenge moving forward.  I would also note that separate from the basic admission requirements, Cal has some swimmers that Stanford would likely not take because of its culture and values.  These include a couple of swimmers who transferred into Cal following their sophomore years in college (albeit one from Harvard), and a swimmer from Singapore who only became eligible to swim in a meet a couple of weeks before NCAAs, this coming half-way through the spring semester of his freshman year.  (That latter issue garnered plenty of snarky comments on swimswam.)

From my remote perspective on the sport, absent any up-close experience or ties to insiders, I still haven't gotten a good sense of what degree to which top NCAA swimmers are recruited or developed.  From one year to the next, Texas doesn't seem to garner an inordinate number of top recruits per the limited rating sources available.  Does that mean Texas is the best at turning good swimmers into great?  Are recruiting rating sites inaccurate?  Or is Texas best at identifying potential, such that they are in fact doing the best job in recruiting, but their selection method is not identified as such?

For Stanford to get back to the top, they'll need to get more top end sprinter recruits and to find more diamonds in the rough.  In 2017, Harvard had a freshman who went from a pedestrian 200 free swimmer in his senior year of high school (1:36) to 4th place at NCAAs (1:31).  Did Stanford try to get him and he chose not to come?  Or as a good but not top-notch high school swimmer, was he considered not worthy of a Stanford scholarship?  Years ago, Stanford had a sprinter named Ben Wildman-Tobriner.  If memory serves, he didn't score at NCAAs as a frosh, and by his senior year he won the 50 free, this despite tearing his pectoral muscle several months earlier.  Identifying and getting those types are key.  And I'm sure everyone is trying to identify the indicators of such swimmers.

Meanwhile, as I think I posted previously, next year's recruits look like they will bolster the distance group, but no one's swim history moves me to believe he will contribute to any of the relays for quite some time, if ever.  Or maybe there's 3-4 unpolished diamonds among the group, their unrecognized brilliance to be brought out by the Stanford experience.

[DenverCard]

Excellent last day and outcome for the boys with the big cardinal S on their caps.  The fought their way to 5th place.  Per the number crunching of swimswam, Stanford most exceeded expectations relative to their entry times on the last day of the meet:

https://swimswam.com/ncaa-men-scoring-ch...eet-day-4/

Compared to their streak of like 30 (+/-) years of top 4 finishes that ended several years back, 5th place would not seem worth celebrating.  But the air went out of the sails at the end of that streak, and the team has been in a rebuilding mode for the last few years.  As pointed out by BigEasy, they made tremendous gains relative to last year.

Still, a steady stream of top recruits is critical.  Per my entirely unscientific observation, many sub-elite swimmers tail off by their junior and senior years in college.  I speculate that without the goal of first obtaining a college scholarship, then making NCAAs for the first time, and then, if applicable, the prospect of qualifying for the Olympics, a 20 or 21-year-old swimmer must question why he's sacrificing so much, while all his peers are enjoying a much more diverse college experience.  And with any wavering of the motivation, one quickly falls from NCAA finalist to also ran.  So a steady source of fresh talent is critical.

However, it seems that the Stanford men's team doesn't have the cache of Texas or Cal for the very top high school swimmers, many of whom are apt to think more in terms of short-term swimming success than the 40-year decision, even without the promise of a lucrative pro career.  Among the masses who post on swimswam, Stanford has a reputation for being a place where good swimmers go to stagnate -- that the swimmers Stanford recruits tend to peak before, rather than after, getting to college.  (Whether that is a criticism of the coaching or a backhanded compliment to all that Stanford offers, I don't know.)

As to unclechuck's question, it does seem that Stanford holds greater appeal to distance swimmers, likely due both to recent success and the draw of the assistant coach, Jeff Kostoff, who himself was an elite distance swimmer.  But sprinters are much more valuable in terms of scoring, as unclechuck pointed out.  So that'll continue to be a challenge moving forward.  I would also note that separate from the basic admission requirements, Cal has some swimmers that Stanford would likely not take because of its culture and values.  These include a couple of swimmers who transferred into Cal following their sophomore years in college (albeit one from Harvard), and a swimmer from Singapore who only became eligible to swim in a meet a couple of weeks before NCAAs, this coming half-way through the spring semester of his freshman year.  (That latter issue garnered plenty of snarky comments on swimswam.)

From my remote perspective on the sport, absent any up-close experience or ties to insiders, I still haven't gotten a good sense of what degree to which top NCAA swimmers are recruited or developed.  From one year to the next, Texas doesn't seem to garner an inordinate number of top recruits per the limited rating sources available.  Does that mean Texas is the best at turning good swimmers into great?  Are recruiting rating sites inaccurate?  Or is Texas best at identifying potential, such that they are in fact doing the best job in recruiting, but their selection method is not identified as such?

For Stanford to get back to the top, they'll need to get more top end sprinter recruits and to find more diamonds in the rough.  In 2017, Harvard had a freshman who went from a pedestrian 200 free swimmer in his senior year of high school (1:36) to 4th place at NCAAs (1:31).  Did Stanford try to get him and he chose not to come?  Or as a good but not top-notch high school swimmer, was he considered not worthy of a Stanford scholarship?  Years ago, Stanford had a sprinter named Ben Wildman-Tobriner.  If memory serves, he didn't score at NCAAs as a frosh, and by his senior year he won the 50 free, this despite tearing his pectoral muscle several months earlier.  Identifying and getting those types are key.  And I'm sure everyone is trying to identify the indicators of such swimmers.

Meanwhile, as I think I posted previously, next year's recruits look like they will bolster the distance group, but no one's swim history moves me to believe he will contribute to any of the relays for quite some time, if ever.  Or maybe there's 3-4 unpolished diamonds among the group, their unrecognized brilliance to be brought out by the Stanford experience.

[Stymie]

Good report, DC, and great results for our young men, particularly given that the swimswam pundits had SoCal and Indiana battling for the 5th spot, as late as yesterday.

https://swimswam.com/2017-m-ncaa-updowns...attle-5th/

[Stymie]

Good report, DC, and great results for our young men, particularly given that the swimswam pundits had SoCal and Indiana battling for the 5th spot, as late as yesterday.

https://swimswam.com/2017-m-ncaa-updowns...attle-5th/

[M T]

DenverCard, thanks for your analysis.  I have to admit I haven't been watching the men's swimming (distracted by WBB), so I extra appreciate your input.

It is really easy to rate prospective swimmers by their times.  In swimming, not only is each swimmer's times out there for the world to see, but also ALL swimmer's times, so you can know how each stand against the others.  Maybe that misses some things like (future) physical size, flexibility, whether they've got good technique & training already or are in need of a good coach.

I was not at this level, but my best swimming years were as a junior in both high school & college.  While swimming was very important in my life, there was more going on.  If you have someone that has nothing in their life more important than swimming, well, I hope they achieve what they want.

[M T]

DenverCard, thanks for your analysis.  I have to admit I haven't been watching the men's swimming (distracted by WBB), so I extra appreciate your input.

It is really easy to rate prospective swimmers by their times.  In swimming, not only is each swimmer's times out there for the world to see, but also ALL swimmer's times, so you can know how each stand against the others.  Maybe that misses some things like (future) physical size, flexibility, whether they've got good technique & training already or are in need of a good coach.

I was not at this level, but my best swimming years were as a junior in both high school & college.  While swimming was very important in my life, there was more going on.  If you have someone that has nothing in their life more important than swimming, well, I hope they achieve what they want.

[unclechuck]

DenverCard, thanks for the thoughtful response. Seems in the Skip Kenney halcyon days Stanford was able to consistently get their share of the best Cali swimmers, and then pluck other elite talent from AZ, TX, FL and the occasional CO, Ohio, or Illinois swimmer, plus at least one South African Olympian. Just don't understand why we aren't as successful with that these days. Alas, a 'go there for your times to die' reputation will be hard to overcome, particularly for all the career short shelf life issues you mention. But c'mon, if NC State can emerge as a quality sprint/middle distance program, Stanford should certainly have an opportunity to get that done.

[unclechuck]

DenverCard, thanks for the thoughtful response. Seems in the Skip Kenney halcyon days Stanford was able to consistently get their share of the best Cali swimmers, and then pluck other elite talent from AZ, TX, FL and the occasional CO, Ohio, or Illinois swimmer, plus at least one South African Olympian. Just don't understand why we aren't as successful with that these days. Alas, a 'go there for your times to die' reputation will be hard to overcome, particularly for all the career short shelf life issues you mention. But c'mon, if NC State can emerge as a quality sprint/middle distance program, Stanford should certainly have an opportunity to get that done.

[cardfan77]

Stanford is binging in a very impressive class.  Hopefully this class can contribute right away.  Number in parenthesis is the swimmer's overall ranking.

(6) Brennan Pastorer iM/Breast  - Maybe he will be the next David Nolan or better.
(10) Alex Liang  IM/Fly/Free - Brother of Andrew Liang.  As good as Andrew is, I expect a more decorative collegiate career for Alex
(13) Matthew Hirschberger Distance Free -  I am not sure how rankings are calculated but his ranking should be much higher.  Easily a top 10 swimmer
(17) Johannes Calloni  Distance Free - Another great addition to Stanford's impressive group of long disntance swimmers
(40) Glenn Cowand  Backstore - Great get as Stanford has only 1-2 true backstroke swimmer
(76) Alberto Mestre Sprinter -  Will swim better than his ranking
(144) Jordan Greenberg Sprinter - Will improve vastly while at Stanford.  Previously a diver. 

Hopefully the top five finish at the NCAA Championship will attrack more top swimmers to come to Stanford.


As good as this class is, Cal is bringing in a more impressive class.  There's a 3-way tie for the number 1 ranking and Cal signed all three of them.  And if the was not enoughh, they also signed the # 7, 19, 51 recruits. 

[cardfan77]

Stanford is binging in a very impressive class.  Hopefully this class can contribute right away.  Number in parenthesis is the swimmer's overall ranking.

(6) Brennan Pastorer iM/Breast  - Maybe he will be the next David Nolan or better.
(10) Alex Liang  IM/Fly/Free - Brother of Andrew Liang.  As good as Andrew is, I expect a more decorative collegiate career for Alex
(13) Matthew Hirschberger Distance Free -  I am not sure how rankings are calculated but his ranking should be much higher.  Easily a top 10 swimmer
(17) Johannes Calloni  Distance Free - Another great addition to Stanford's impressive group of long disntance swimmers
(40) Glenn Cowand  Backstore - Great get as Stanford has only 1-2 true backstroke swimmer
(76) Alberto Mestre Sprinter -  Will swim better than his ranking
(144) Jordan Greenberg Sprinter - Will improve vastly while at Stanford.  Previously a diver. 

Hopefully the top five finish at the NCAA Championship will attrack more top swimmers to come to Stanford.


As good as this class is, Cal is bringing in a more impressive class.  There's a 3-way tie for the number 1 ranking and Cal signed all three of them.  And if the was not enoughh, they also signed the # 7, 19, 51 recruits. 

[unclechuck]

Interesting stuff cardfan77; thanks. The diver conversion is atypical and intriguing; usually it goes the other way. Plus side is divers are usually explosive/fast-twitch athletes, which will translate well to sprinting. However, they also tend to be more compact (better spinning/twisting) and elite sprinters are getting bigger all the time, but the short course collegiate format would certainly be best for the modest in stature.

As DenverCard touched on, sprinters can be developed, as physical maturity and attendant raw physical strength are key for races of 100 yards or less which covers all relays but the 4X200. Generally, women mature sooner than men so you have a better feel for what the finished product will be like with them. So there might be an opportunity to pick up guys who don't train with elite age group clubs and maybe haven't even been doing year round training who would have a lot of upside. A cheap trick there is to look for guys whose long course times (if they have them) aren't nearly as good as their equivalent short course times.

I'm not clear on the regs, but I keep thinking with Stanford's robust academic scholarship program wouldn't it be possible to get a number of academically qualified 'projects' into the program on academic scholarship, and if they didn't work out, a precious sport specific scholarship is not squandered and everybody wins? In my Farm days I knew one football player, for sure, who had just that arrangement. Just curious.

[unclechuck]

Interesting stuff cardfan77; thanks. The diver conversion is atypical and intriguing; usually it goes the other way. Plus side is divers are usually explosive/fast-twitch athletes, which will translate well to sprinting. However, they also tend to be more compact (better spinning/twisting) and elite sprinters are getting bigger all the time, but the short course collegiate format would certainly be best for the modest in stature.

As DenverCard touched on, sprinters can be developed, as physical maturity and attendant raw physical strength are key for races of 100 yards or less which covers all relays but the 4X200. Generally, women mature sooner than men so you have a better feel for what the finished product will be like with them. So there might be an opportunity to pick up guys who don't train with elite age group clubs and maybe haven't even been doing year round training who would have a lot of upside. A cheap trick there is to look for guys whose long course times (if they have them) aren't nearly as good as their equivalent short course times.

I'm not clear on the regs, but I keep thinking with Stanford's robust academic scholarship program wouldn't it be possible to get a number of academically qualified 'projects' into the program on academic scholarship, and if they didn't work out, a precious sport specific scholarship is not squandered and everybody wins? In my Farm days I knew one football player, for sure, who had just that arrangement. Just curious.

[DenverCard]

A couple of interesting post-NCAA links: An interview with Grant Shoults, who, in a 4-minute thin slice, comes across as a simply a great guy, and a story about Stanford's turnaround from last year, as we've discussed here on the Cardboard.

https://swimswam.com/ncaa-wrap-grant-sho...ear-video/

https://swimswam.com/stanford-men-back-g...ish-ncaas/

[DenverCard]

A couple of interesting post-NCAA links: An interview with Grant Shoults, who, in a 4-minute thin slice, comes across as a simply a great guy, and a story about Stanford's turnaround from last year, as we've discussed here on the Cardboard.

https://swimswam.com/ncaa-wrap-grant-sho...ear-video/

https://swimswam.com/stanford-men-back-g...ish-ncaas/

[unclechuck]

Nice links, cheers. The bit on him really working on his walls/underwaters is telling. That's exactly the kind of stuff that is so critical in short course (& relays!) but kids who come from predominantly long course club programs often don't pay much attention to, as they can get by just fine on conditioning and clean strokes. I'm surprised - somewhat - that it was the swimmer who identified the issue and initiated the focused work. At least it came across that way. Regardless, nice stuff; thanks.

[unclechuck]

Nice links, cheers. The bit on him really working on his walls/underwaters is telling. That's exactly the kind of stuff that is so critical in short course (& relays!) but kids who come from predominantly long course club programs often don't pay much attention to, as they can get by just fine on conditioning and clean strokes. I'm surprised - somewhat - that it was the swimmer who identified the issue and initiated the focused work. At least it came across that way. Regardless, nice stuff; thanks.

[M T]

They might not have won the NCAA championship, but not only did they win the PAC-12 championship, they also excelled on the All-PAC-12 Academic Team.
Six make the first team (gpa > 3.53), ten make the second team (gpa > 3.13), two make Honorable Mention (gpa > 3.0).

Stanford had the most on the first team (USC was second with 5) and the second team (Utah was second with 8 ), combined first & second teams (16 vs Utah's 12), and overall (18).  There are 26 swimmers listed on the roster.  11 of Stanford's 15 All-Americans were also All-PAC-12 Academic team members.

Congratulations to them all.

[M T]

They might not have won the NCAA championship, but not only did they win the PAC-12 championship, they also excelled on the All-PAC-12 Academic Team.
Six make the first team (gpa > 3.53), ten make the second team (gpa > 3.13), two make Honorable Mention (gpa > 3.0).

Stanford had the most on the first team (USC was second with 5) and the second team (Utah was second with 8 ), combined first & second teams (16 vs Utah's 12), and overall (18).  There are 26 swimmers listed on the roster.  11 of Stanford's 15 All-Americans were also All-PAC-12 Academic team members.

Congratulations to them all.