[unclechuck]

If I were inclined to use that "resiliency" word, I would.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20988...and-browns

[unclechuck]

If I were inclined to use that "resiliency" word, I would.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20988...and-browns

[TreesAndBirds]

Interesting/positive view of KH.

http://brownswire.usatoday.com/2017/10/1...b/?ref=yfp

[TreesAndBirds]

Interesting/positive view of KH.

http://brownswire.usatoday.com/2017/10/1...b/?ref=yfp

[BostonCard]

Interesting/positive view of KH.

http://brownswire.usatoday.com/2017/10/1...b/?ref=yfp

Hue Jackson is not making a good coaching move.  He's simply not committing coaching malpractice.  Kizer and Hogan gave him no choice as to who to start.

BC

[BostonCard]

Interesting/positive view of KH.

http://brownswire.usatoday.com/2017/10/1...b/?ref=yfp

Hue Jackson is not making a good coaching move.  He's simply not committing coaching malpractice.  Kizer and Hogan gave him no choice as to who to start.

BC

[CompSci87]

Interesting/positive view of KH.

http://brownswire.usatoday.com/2017/10/1...b/?ref=yfp

I think the writer is giving himself too much credit for his earlier negative evaluation of Hogan, and I'm sure he's giving Jackson too much credit for Hogan's improvement. How much time does he think Jackson spent coaching the team's 4th string QB and how many reps does he think the 4th string guy got in practice?

Hogan most likely has been working with his own personal trainer on his throwing motion, and studying the playbook on his own while not getting a lot of reps until it became obvious the others weren't cutting it.

[CompSci87]

Interesting/positive view of KH.

http://brownswire.usatoday.com/2017/10/1...b/?ref=yfp

I think the writer is giving himself too much credit for his earlier negative evaluation of Hogan, and I'm sure he's giving Jackson too much credit for Hogan's improvement. How much time does he think Jackson spent coaching the team's 4th string QB and how many reps does he think the 4th string guy got in practice?

Hogan most likely has been working with his own personal trainer on his throwing motion, and studying the playbook on his own while not getting a lot of reps until it became obvious the others weren't cutting it.

[Hank 91]

I don't know what's going on in Cleveland, but as much as people tend to worry about how long it takes after arriving on campus for Stanford quarterbacks to see the field, they're clearly getting a good football education. Andrew Luck came back from his first Colts minicamp and reported to Shaw that he was able to learn their offense over the weekend. During Kevin Hogan's fifth year he routinely ran the quarterbacks meeting each week, presenting the game plan and going over the opponent's defensive tendencies.

My guess is that Stanford players distinguish themselves in this regard once they get to the next level, and the NFL knows it. Remember when Francis Owusu signed a free agent contract with the Dolphins during the summer and head coach Adam Gase was asked if he was concerned about his late arrival?

“Where’d he go to school [Stanford],” Gase sarcastically asked the reporter during minicamp. “He’ll be alright.”

We talk about this a lot, but I don't think it can be stated enough. Stanford players are smart, they're well-coached, and they're prepared for the NFL.

[Hank 91]

I don't know what's going on in Cleveland, but as much as people tend to worry about how long it takes after arriving on campus for Stanford quarterbacks to see the field, they're clearly getting a good football education. Andrew Luck came back from his first Colts minicamp and reported to Shaw that he was able to learn their offense over the weekend. During Kevin Hogan's fifth year he routinely ran the quarterbacks meeting each week, presenting the game plan and going over the opponent's defensive tendencies.

My guess is that Stanford players distinguish themselves in this regard once they get to the next level, and the NFL knows it. Remember when Francis Owusu signed a free agent contract with the Dolphins during the summer and head coach Adam Gase was asked if he was concerned about his late arrival?

“Where’d he go to school [Stanford],” Gase sarcastically asked the reporter during minicamp. “He’ll be alright.”

We talk about this a lot, but I don't think it can be stated enough. Stanford players are smart, they're well-coached, and they're prepared for the NFL.

[thunder_chik]

I don't know what's going on in Cleveland, but as much as people tend to worry about how long it takes after arriving on campus for Stanford quarterbacks to see the field, they're clearly getting a good football education. Andrew Luck came back from his first Colts minicamp and reported to Shaw that he was able to learn their offense over the weekend. During Kevin Hogan's fifth year he routinely ran the quarterbacks meeting, presenting the game plan and going over the opponent's defensive tendencies.

Browns fans have been complaining about Hue Jackson's play calling (especially after his decision not to kick a field goal to tie the Jets and/or spending a TO to decide on a 4th and 2, inside the 5, (failed) run into the middle play) and the need to hire an OC.  I hope he gives Hogan latitude to call/change up some plays when they go up against the Texans this weekend!

[thunder_chik]

I don't know what's going on in Cleveland, but as much as people tend to worry about how long it takes after arriving on campus for Stanford quarterbacks to see the field, they're clearly getting a good football education. Andrew Luck came back from his first Colts minicamp and reported to Shaw that he was able to learn their offense over the weekend. During Kevin Hogan's fifth year he routinely ran the quarterbacks meeting, presenting the game plan and going over the opponent's defensive tendencies.

Browns fans have been complaining about Hue Jackson's play calling (especially after his decision not to kick a field goal to tie the Jets and/or spending a TO to decide on a 4th and 2, inside the 5, (failed) run into the middle play) and the need to hire an OC.  I hope he gives Hogan latitude to call/change up some plays when they go up against the Texans this weekend!

[SF_Cardinal_Fan]

I don't know what's going on in Cleveland, but as much as people tend to worry about how long it takes after arriving on campus for Stanford quarterbacks to see the field, they're clearly getting a good football education. Andrew Luck came back from his first Colts minicamp and reported to Shaw that he was able to learn their offense over the weekend. During Kevin Hogan's fifth year he routinely ran the quarterbacks meeting, presenting the game plan and going over the opponent's defensive tendencies.

My guess is that it Stanford players distinguish themselves in this regard once they get to the next level, and the NFL knows it. Remember Francis Owusu signed a free agent contract with the Dolphins during the summer and head coach Adam Gase was asked if we concerned about his late arrival?

“Where’d he go to school [Stanford],” Gase sarcastically asking the reporter during minicamp. “He’ll be alright.”

We talk about this a lot, but I don't think it be stated enough. Stanford players are smart, they're well-coached, and they're prepared for the NFL.

Excellent post ! I enjoyed reading it, thanks  :)

[SF_Cardinal_Fan]

I don't know what's going on in Cleveland, but as much as people tend to worry about how long it takes after arriving on campus for Stanford quarterbacks to see the field, they're clearly getting a good football education. Andrew Luck came back from his first Colts minicamp and reported to Shaw that he was able to learn their offense over the weekend. During Kevin Hogan's fifth year he routinely ran the quarterbacks meeting, presenting the game plan and going over the opponent's defensive tendencies.

My guess is that it Stanford players distinguish themselves in this regard once they get to the next level, and the NFL knows it. Remember Francis Owusu signed a free agent contract with the Dolphins during the summer and head coach Adam Gase was asked if we concerned about his late arrival?

“Where’d he go to school [Stanford],” Gase sarcastically asking the reporter during minicamp. “He’ll be alright.”

We talk about this a lot, but I don't think it be stated enough. Stanford players are smart, they're well-coached, and they're prepared for the NFL.

Excellent post ! I enjoyed reading it, thanks  :)

[washingtonismoney]

Browns fans have been complaining about Hue Jackson's play calling (especially after his decision not to kick a field goal to tie the Jets and/or spending a TO to decide on a 4th and 2, inside the 5, (failed) run into the middle play) and the need to hire an OC.  I hope he gives Hogan latitude to call/change up some plays when they go up against the Texans this weekend!

Amusing anecdote. Hue Jackson was regarded as a great playcaller (at times) with the Raiders and Bengals. Playcalling is the most fickle adjective for a coach.

[washingtonismoney]

Browns fans have been complaining about Hue Jackson's play calling (especially after his decision not to kick a field goal to tie the Jets and/or spending a TO to decide on a 4th and 2, inside the 5, (failed) run into the middle play) and the need to hire an OC.  I hope he gives Hogan latitude to call/change up some plays when they go up against the Texans this weekend!

Amusing anecdote. Hue Jackson was regarded as a great playcaller (at times) with the Raiders and Bengals. Playcalling is the most fickle adjective for a coach.

[Hank 91]

[quote author=thunder_chik link=topic=17670.msg206058#msg206058 date=1507922021]

Browns fans have been complaining about Hue Jackson's play calling (especially after his decision not to kick a field goal to tie the Jets and/or spending a TO to decide on a 4th and 2, inside the 5, (failed) run into the middle play) and the need to hire an OC.  I hope he gives Hogan latitude to call/change up some plays when they go up against the Texans this weekend!

Amusing anecdote. Hue Jackson was regarded as a great playcaller (at times) with the Raiders and Bengals. Playcalling is the most fickle adjective for a coaching.
[/quote]

This reminds of a play from one of our tougher matchups against Oregon, maybe three or four years ago. We had a fourth down at midfield, and Shaw decided to go for it. The fullback (Ryan Hewitt?) slipped out of the backfield and was wide open for what should've been a first down. Hogan threw a poor pass, however, and we didn't convert. Musberger and Herbstreit immediately launched into criticism of what they saw as a terrible play call. They were wrong, of course. It was clearly a BRILLIANT play call. Hewitt was wide open. They were confusing design with result. All a coach can do is put the pieces in the right spots; it's up to the players to execute. Sadly, most of us fall victim to this.

[Hank 91]

[quote author=thunder_chik link=topic=17670.msg206058#msg206058 date=1507922021]

Browns fans have been complaining about Hue Jackson's play calling (especially after his decision not to kick a field goal to tie the Jets and/or spending a TO to decide on a 4th and 2, inside the 5, (failed) run into the middle play) and the need to hire an OC.  I hope he gives Hogan latitude to call/change up some plays when they go up against the Texans this weekend!

Amusing anecdote. Hue Jackson was regarded as a great playcaller (at times) with the Raiders and Bengals. Playcalling is the most fickle adjective for a coaching.
[/quote]

This reminds of a play from one of our tougher matchups against Oregon, maybe three or four years ago. We had a fourth down at midfield, and Shaw decided to go for it. The fullback (Ryan Hewitt?) slipped out of the backfield and was wide open for what should've been a first down. Hogan threw a poor pass, however, and we didn't convert. Musberger and Herbstreit immediately launched into criticism of what they saw as a terrible play call. They were wrong, of course. It was clearly a BRILLIANT play call. Hewitt was wide open. They were confusing design with result. All a coach can do is put the pieces in the right spots; it's up to the players to execute. Sadly, most of us fall victim to this.

[ChicagoCard]

This reminds of a play from one of our tougher matchups against Oregon, maybe three or four years ago. We had a fourth down at midfield, and Shaw decided to go for it. The fullback (Ryan Hewitt?) slipped out of the backfield and was wide open for what should've been a first down. Hogan threw a poor pass, however, and we didn't convert. Musberger and Herbstreit immediately launched into criticism of what they saw as a terrible play call. They were wrong, of course. It was clearly a BRILLIANT play call. Hewitt was wide open. They were confusing design with result. All a coach can do is put the pieces in the right spots; it's up to the players to execute. Sadly, most of us fall victim to this.

I remember that as though it were last year. I wondered how close Hewitt potentially might have come to scoring had Hogan's pass hit him in stride.

[ChicagoCard]

This reminds of a play from one of our tougher matchups against Oregon, maybe three or four years ago. We had a fourth down at midfield, and Shaw decided to go for it. The fullback (Ryan Hewitt?) slipped out of the backfield and was wide open for what should've been a first down. Hogan threw a poor pass, however, and we didn't convert. Musberger and Herbstreit immediately launched into criticism of what they saw as a terrible play call. They were wrong, of course. It was clearly a BRILLIANT play call. Hewitt was wide open. They were confusing design with result. All a coach can do is put the pieces in the right spots; it's up to the players to execute. Sadly, most of us fall victim to this.

I remember that as though it were last year. I wondered how close Hewitt potentially might have come to scoring had Hogan's pass hit him in stride.

[teejers1]

Hank, I agree with your particular example NOT being an appropriate criticism of play calling.

The problem is that almost every play called, if perfectly "executed," should result in a TD.  Buddy Teevens kept harping on the fact that his pathetic offenses were the result of poor execution (a missed block here, an imperfect route there, etc.) when that plainly was not the case.  Even Ted Leland eventually admitted as much in a lunch that Terry and I attended.

Now, I'm not saying that Shaw's offense is Teevens-esque, but I AM saying that there have been WAY too many Teevens-like offensive performances (i.e., pathetically low YPG) under this regime, especially given the talent level on the roster.  Sea Hang, from TOS, used to keep a running tally of these games (some of which Stanford won due to exceptional defensive play).  It was and is hard to believe that such games are all "execution." 

BTW, I'm resigned to the fact that the O we've been seeing - shotgun heavy, read option the closest thing we have to deception, heavy reliance on Love - is the O we'll continue to see.  I just hope that opposing defenses do not sell out to stop Love because right now he IS Stanford's offense.  What he is doing is remarkable.  He single-handedly is winning games for Stanford (or at least keeping the Cardinal competitive). 

Is it sustainable?  We shall see.  The OL continuing to improve will be a big part of any hope on this front.  I have no faith that Chryst will suddenly become a good (let alone very good) college QB.  Serviceable might be the ceiling there, which might be enough for a couple opponents.  And that, of course, raises its own set of questions, which need not be belabored here.

[teejers1]

Hank, I agree with your particular example NOT being an appropriate criticism of play calling.

The problem is that almost every play called, if perfectly "executed," should result in a TD.  Buddy Teevens kept harping on the fact that his pathetic offenses were the result of poor execution (a missed block here, an imperfect route there, etc.) when that plainly was not the case.  Even Ted Leland eventually admitted as much in a lunch that Terry and I attended.

Now, I'm not saying that Shaw's offense is Teevens-esque, but I AM saying that there have been WAY too many Teevens-like offensive performances (i.e., pathetically low YPG) under this regime, especially given the talent level on the roster.  Sea Hang, from TOS, used to keep a running tally of these games (some of which Stanford won due to exceptional defensive play).  It was and is hard to believe that such games are all "execution." 

BTW, I'm resigned to the fact that the O we've been seeing - shotgun heavy, read option the closest thing we have to deception, heavy reliance on Love - is the O we'll continue to see.  I just hope that opposing defenses do not sell out to stop Love because right now he IS Stanford's offense.  What he is doing is remarkable.  He single-handedly is winning games for Stanford (or at least keeping the Cardinal competitive). 

Is it sustainable?  We shall see.  The OL continuing to improve will be a big part of any hope on this front.  I have no faith that Chryst will suddenly become a good (let alone very good) college QB.  Serviceable might be the ceiling there, which might be enough for a couple opponents.  And that, of course, raises its own set of questions, which need not be belabored here.

[BostonCard]

Now, I'm not saying that Shaw's offense is Teevens-esque, but I AM saying that there have been WAY too many Teevens-like offensive performances (i.e., pathetically low YPG) under this regime, especially given the talent level on the roster.  Sea Hang, from TOS, used to keep a running tally of these games (some of which Stanford won due to exceptional defensive play).  It was and is hard to believe that such games are all "execution." 

The offense is fourth in the nation in yards per play.  FOURTH in the NATION!

BC

[BostonCard]

Now, I'm not saying that Shaw's offense is Teevens-esque, but I AM saying that there have been WAY too many Teevens-like offensive performances (i.e., pathetically low YPG) under this regime, especially given the talent level on the roster.  Sea Hang, from TOS, used to keep a running tally of these games (some of which Stanford won due to exceptional defensive play).  It was and is hard to believe that such games are all "execution." 

The offense is fourth in the nation in yards per play.  FOURTH in the NATION!

BC

[Mick]

[quote author=teejers1 link=topic=17670.msg206067#msg206067 date=1507927415]

Now, I'm not saying that Shaw's offense is Teevens-esque, but I AM saying that there have been WAY too many Teevens-like offensive performances (i.e., pathetically low YPG) under this regime, especially given the talent level on the roster.  Sea Hang, from TOS, used to keep a running tally of these games (some of which Stanford won due to exceptional defensive play).  It was and is hard to believe that such games are all "execution." 

The offense is fourth in the nation in yards per play.  FOURTH in the NATION!

BC
[/quote]


But #32 in points per game.  Still, 36.3 ppg should be enough for many victories...

[Mick]

[quote author=teejers1 link=topic=17670.msg206067#msg206067 date=1507927415]

Now, I'm not saying that Shaw's offense is Teevens-esque, but I AM saying that there have been WAY too many Teevens-like offensive performances (i.e., pathetically low YPG) under this regime, especially given the talent level on the roster.  Sea Hang, from TOS, used to keep a running tally of these games (some of which Stanford won due to exceptional defensive play).  It was and is hard to believe that such games are all "execution." 

The offense is fourth in the nation in yards per play.  FOURTH in the NATION!

BC
[/quote]


But #32 in points per game.  Still, 36.3 ppg should be enough for many victories...

[CTcard]

But #32 in points per game.  Still, 36.3 ppg should be enough for many victories...

But we know Stanford plays at a much slower pace than most every team in FBS.
Stanford is #4 in points per play, and I think WIM posted that Stanford is #9 in points per drive.


Per drive stats are really the best to normalize for both pace and style of play, but they are generally hard to find. The site for this stuff that I trust the most is Brian Fremeau's bcftoys.com, but he does not yet have per drive stats up for 2017.
I am not sure of the source for the Stanford #9 comment mentioned above.

[CTcard]

But #32 in points per game.  Still, 36.3 ppg should be enough for many victories...

But we know Stanford plays at a much slower pace than most every team in FBS.
Stanford is #4 in points per play, and I think WIM posted that Stanford is #9 in points per drive.


Per drive stats are really the best to normalize for both pace and style of play, but they are generally hard to find. The site for this stuff that I trust the most is Brian Fremeau's bcftoys.com, but he does not yet have per drive stats up for 2017.
I am not sure of the source for the Stanford #9 comment mentioned above.

[fullmetal]

Along with teejers' post, I'm worried about the boom-bust nature of relying on Bryce Love for points.  Teams will figure out Stanford's blocking schemes, and as with U$C and SDSU, sometimes Love isn't enough.  Opponents like UW and perhaps even Notre Shame have the personnel to match up with our OL, and once they commit numbers to the box (or point of attack), it's just not going to be enough.  I like the correlation between first downs and points...give me a consistent offense that chews up yards and time over a lightning strike offense that doesn't afford your defense any rest.

But a win is a win...and if this is the only way Stanford can win right now, I guess that's how they have to play.

[fullmetal]

Along with teejers' post, I'm worried about the boom-bust nature of relying on Bryce Love for points.  Teams will figure out Stanford's blocking schemes, and as with U$C and SDSU, sometimes Love isn't enough.  Opponents like UW and perhaps even Notre Shame have the personnel to match up with our OL, and once they commit numbers to the box (or point of attack), it's just not going to be enough.  I like the correlation between first downs and points...give me a consistent offense that chews up yards and time over a lightning strike offense that doesn't afford your defense any rest.

But a win is a win...and if this is the only way Stanford can win right now, I guess that's how they have to play.

[DC 86]

Hogan has moved the chains a few times but been spraying the ball around with several overthrows. Just now Cleveland was on the edge of the red zone and Hogan overthrew a wide open receiver and it was returned for an easy pick-six.

Update: next series Hogan underthrows an open man deep for another interception. Rough start.

[DC 86]

Hogan has moved the chains a few times but been spraying the ball around with several overthrows. Just now Cleveland was on the edge of the red zone and Hogan overthrew a wide open receiver and it was returned for an easy pick-six.

Update: next series Hogan underthrows an open man deep for another interception. Rough start.

[needle]

The Hogan Era may already be over in Cleveland. Three picks in the first half.

What hurt the most was a pick-six on an air mailed short pass when Cleveland could have at least attempted a field goal.

The other picks came on third down with Hogan trying to force a ball in. Sounds like receivers basically aren't getting open past 10 yards, but even aside from the interceptions Hogan has not looked sharp throwing the ball, either.

I think he deserves a chance to finish the game, as he did start well at least. Not sure if the Browns coaching staff will agree.

[needle]

The Hogan Era may already be over in Cleveland. Three picks in the first half.

What hurt the most was a pick-six on an air mailed short pass when Cleveland could have at least attempted a field goal.

The other picks came on third down with Hogan trying to force a ball in. Sounds like receivers basically aren't getting open past 10 yards, but even aside from the interceptions Hogan has not looked sharp throwing the ball, either.

I think he deserves a chance to finish the game, as he did start well at least. Not sure if the Browns coaching staff will agree.

[DC 86]

Early third quarter he is called for intentional grounding while in the end zone, a safety.

[DC 86]

Early third quarter he is called for intentional grounding while in the end zone, a safety.

[stupac2]

Maybe the Browns need to start every game in the wildcat, so they just don't have a starting QB. Their starters seem to be legitimately cursed. (Though, of course, there was a pretty large step up in competition for Hogan this week...)

[stupac2]

Maybe the Browns need to start every game in the wildcat, so they just don't have a starting QB. Their starters seem to be legitimately cursed. (Though, of course, there was a pretty large step up in competition for Hogan this week...)

[thunder_chik]

Poor Kevin.  He's having a game about as bad as Luke Falk vs the Bares.
I was hoping he'd at least have a good close game, even if they didn't get a W.  Don't know how he can salvage this now.  :(

[thunder_chik]

Poor Kevin.  He's having a game about as bad as Luke Falk vs the Bares.
I was hoping he'd at least have a good close game, even if they didn't get a W.  Don't know how he can salvage this now.  :(