[Stymie]

......do we refer to our male players and coaches by their last name and our female players and coaches by their first name?  It seems a bit juvenile , at least to me.

[Stymie]

......do we refer to our male players and coaches by their last name and our female players and coaches by their first name?  It seems a bit juvenile , at least to me.

[stupac2]

I've been wondering this for a long time. Surprised I never asked.

[stupac2]

I've been wondering this for a long time. Surprised I never asked.

[81alum]

I've been wondering this for a long time. Surprised I never asked.

Good question.  I've felt a bit guilty about it when I do it in my WBB write ups, although I have sometimes alternated.  I'll take my que from all of you and if you think it would be a good idea, I'll try to more consistently use last names.

But you asked why.....

I think it started for me with Nneka and Chiney Ogwumike.  I would bike home from the game and try to get a write-up posted within the hour, and frankly it was a whole lot easier for my fingers to type Nneka or Chiney than it was to type Ogwumike.  Plus we eventually had two Ogwumikes playing at the same time, and then two Samuelsons playing at the same time, and then two Johnsons at the same time, and will soon have two Hulls at the same time.  Under those circumstances first names are essential, and once you start calling a couple of players by their first name it seems more consistent to call them all by their first names.  And giving a full first AND last name is just time consuming and clumsy.  Maybe I should use last names consistently EXCEPT for those players who share a last name?  What do you all think?

The other thing that reinforces the first name use for WBB are the chalk talks and behind the bench talks.  The coaches talk to the fans about the players on a first name basis and often bring them out to introduce them to the fans as "Chiney" or "Karlie" etc.  So those of us who attend those events get a lot of first name reinforcement.  It feels weird just having listened to "Chiney" chat about the game to go home and type "Ogwumike said...."

[81alum]

I've been wondering this for a long time. Surprised I never asked.

Good question.  I've felt a bit guilty about it when I do it in my WBB write ups, although I have sometimes alternated.  I'll take my que from all of you and if you think it would be a good idea, I'll try to more consistently use last names.

But you asked why.....

I think it started for me with Nneka and Chiney Ogwumike.  I would bike home from the game and try to get a write-up posted within the hour, and frankly it was a whole lot easier for my fingers to type Nneka or Chiney than it was to type Ogwumike.  Plus we eventually had two Ogwumikes playing at the same time, and then two Samuelsons playing at the same time, and then two Johnsons at the same time, and will soon have two Hulls at the same time.  Under those circumstances first names are essential, and once you start calling a couple of players by their first name it seems more consistent to call them all by their first names.  And giving a full first AND last name is just time consuming and clumsy.  Maybe I should use last names consistently EXCEPT for those players who share a last name?  What do you all think?

The other thing that reinforces the first name use for WBB are the chalk talks and behind the bench talks.  The coaches talk to the fans about the players on a first name basis and often bring them out to introduce them to the fans as "Chiney" or "Karlie" etc.  So those of us who attend those events get a lot of first name reinforcement.  It feels weird just having listened to "Chiney" chat about the game to go home and type "Ogwumike said...."

[Mick]

Linguists have often found that members of dominant social groups are called by their last names and refer to others by first names.

http://fair.org/extra/gender-bias-in-televised-sports/

[Mick]

Linguists have often found that members of dominant social groups are called by their last names and refer to others by first names.

http://fair.org/extra/gender-bias-in-televised-sports/

[81alum]

Linguists have often found that members of dominant social groups are called by their last names and refer to others by first names.

http://fair.org/extra/gender-bias-in-televised-sports/

Yes, it is fascinating.

As for coaches, the gender bias may be about the gender of the SPORT and not the gender of the coach, it seems.  "Tara" is joined with "Geno" etc.  But on the MBB side the Duke coach is NOT "Mike" but is "Coach K." 

[81alum]

Linguists have often found that members of dominant social groups are called by their last names and refer to others by first names.

http://fair.org/extra/gender-bias-in-televised-sports/

Yes, it is fascinating.

As for coaches, the gender bias may be about the gender of the SPORT and not the gender of the coach, it seems.  "Tara" is joined with "Geno" etc.  But on the MBB side the Duke coach is NOT "Mike" but is "Coach K." 

[2006alum]

Very interesting. I do think it's somewhat contextual to the sport, and especially for individual versus team sports. In tennis, for example, I feel like color commentators refer to Roger, Rafa, Novak, and Stan more than they do Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, and Wrawrinka. Maybe it's just easier to say their first names. On the women's side, however, I feel like I hear Sharapova more than Maria, Azarenka more than I hear Victoria, and Muguruza more than Garbine. So maybe it just has to do with whether the first or last name is more memorable or unique. To that end, for our female individual sport athletes, it seems like our women's golf and tennis players are mostly referred to here by their last names here? For example, off the top of my head, I couldn't for the life of me tell you the first names of Valenzuela or Arbuthnott, which may be my own faulty memory, but I think also says something about which names I am casually seeing more often.

On the other hand, I think the fact that Breanna Stewart called Auriemma "Geno" and Geno called her "Stewwie" suggests that it goes both ways. And I feel like I almost never heard Brittney Griner referred to as just Brittney, and usually as just Griner.

By contrast, my sense is that in football the common vernacular is almost always to go by last name. And since football is only men, if we're even fifty-fifty in our choices in other sports, the preponderance of conversation about football will skew the gender dynamic pretty significantly. So maybe that explains a decent portion of the skew?

As for Coach K, "Mike" is waaaay more generic than "Tara" or "Geno," and I suspect in his early years before he became a legend his last name was a hurdle for people to say and spell. Coach K simplifies things significantly!

[2006alum]

Very interesting. I do think it's somewhat contextual to the sport, and especially for individual versus team sports. In tennis, for example, I feel like color commentators refer to Roger, Rafa, Novak, and Stan more than they do Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, and Wrawrinka. Maybe it's just easier to say their first names. On the women's side, however, I feel like I hear Sharapova more than Maria, Azarenka more than I hear Victoria, and Muguruza more than Garbine. So maybe it just has to do with whether the first or last name is more memorable or unique. To that end, for our female individual sport athletes, it seems like our women's golf and tennis players are mostly referred to here by their last names here? For example, off the top of my head, I couldn't for the life of me tell you the first names of Valenzuela or Arbuthnott, which may be my own faulty memory, but I think also says something about which names I am casually seeing more often.

On the other hand, I think the fact that Breanna Stewart called Auriemma "Geno" and Geno called her "Stewwie" suggests that it goes both ways. And I feel like I almost never heard Brittney Griner referred to as just Brittney, and usually as just Griner.

By contrast, my sense is that in football the common vernacular is almost always to go by last name. And since football is only men, if we're even fifty-fifty in our choices in other sports, the preponderance of conversation about football will skew the gender dynamic pretty significantly. So maybe that explains a decent portion of the skew?

As for Coach K, "Mike" is waaaay more generic than "Tara" or "Geno," and I suspect in his early years before he became a legend his last name was a hurdle for people to say and spell. Coach K simplifies things significantly!

[Goose]

What I am going to say here will not be popular, but I think it is accurate. It is considered impolite to address some male person you don't know well by their first name, even when you know it. It is also considered impolite to address women that you don't know well by their first name. However, it is considered normal to address children by their first name. There in an undercurrent that suggests women's sports are played by children, and men's  sports are played by adults. It is also considered "normal" to refer to Tara  VanDerveer by here first name, and much less normal to refer to coach Jerod Haase by his first name, even though both are adults. You also see lots of references to Geno Auriemma by his first name that would never happen for, say Coach K (note: coach K, not coach M(ike) ).
I don't think this is an active male conspiracy or anything like that, but it is interesting. What is even more interesting is that it applies to politicians as well, (Hillary vs Trump), but not always. We don't talk about Chancellor Angela. References to Margret Thacher seem almost always to use both names, but never "Maggie" alone, except in jest. The English language equivalents of ti and lei are used much differently on sports boards than in personal discourse. I would never walk up to Coach VanDerveer and say "Hi Tara", but we do the same on this board all the time.

[Goose]

What I am going to say here will not be popular, but I think it is accurate. It is considered impolite to address some male person you don't know well by their first name, even when you know it. It is also considered impolite to address women that you don't know well by their first name. However, it is considered normal to address children by their first name. There in an undercurrent that suggests women's sports are played by children, and men's  sports are played by adults. It is also considered "normal" to refer to Tara  VanDerveer by here first name, and much less normal to refer to coach Jerod Haase by his first name, even though both are adults. You also see lots of references to Geno Auriemma by his first name that would never happen for, say Coach K (note: coach K, not coach M(ike) ).
I don't think this is an active male conspiracy or anything like that, but it is interesting. What is even more interesting is that it applies to politicians as well, (Hillary vs Trump), but not always. We don't talk about Chancellor Angela. References to Margret Thacher seem almost always to use both names, but never "Maggie" alone, except in jest. The English language equivalents of ti and lei are used much differently on sports boards than in personal discourse. I would never walk up to Coach VanDerveer and say "Hi Tara", but we do the same on this board all the time.

[stupac2]

[quote author=stupac2 link=topic=17823.msg209052#msg209052 date=1509283779]
I've been wondering this for a long time. Surprised I never asked.

Good question.  I've felt a bit guilty about it when I do it in my WBB write ups, although I have sometimes alternated.  I'll take my que from all of you and if you think it would be a good idea, I'll try to more consistently use last names.

But you asked why.....

I think it started for me with Nneka and Chiney Ogwumike.  I would bike home from the game and try to get a write-up posted within the hour, and frankly it was a whole lot easier for my fingers to type Nneka or Chiney than it was to type Ogwumike.  Plus we eventually had two Ogwumikes playing at the same time, and then two Samuelsons playing at the same time, and then two Johnsons at the same time, and will soon have two Hulls at the same time.  Under those circumstances first names are essential, and once you start calling a couple of players by their first name it seems more consistent to call them all by their first names.  And giving a full first AND last name is just time consuming and clumsy.  Maybe I should use last names consistently EXCEPT for those players who share a last name?  What do you all think?

The other thing that reinforces the first name use for WBB are the chalk talks and behind the bench talks.  The coaches talk to the fans about the players on a first name basis and often bring them out to introduce them to the fans as "Chiney" or "Karlie" etc.  So those of us who attend those events get a lot of first name reinforcement.  It feels weird just having listened to "Chiney" chat about the game to go home and type "Ogwumike said...."
[/quote]

I don't personally find it problematic, it was just always interesting to me that the women were often called by their first names and the men virtually never. I assumed there was some historical reason and this makes sense.

[stupac2]

[quote author=stupac2 link=topic=17823.msg209052#msg209052 date=1509283779]
I've been wondering this for a long time. Surprised I never asked.

Good question.  I've felt a bit guilty about it when I do it in my WBB write ups, although I have sometimes alternated.  I'll take my que from all of you and if you think it would be a good idea, I'll try to more consistently use last names.

But you asked why.....

I think it started for me with Nneka and Chiney Ogwumike.  I would bike home from the game and try to get a write-up posted within the hour, and frankly it was a whole lot easier for my fingers to type Nneka or Chiney than it was to type Ogwumike.  Plus we eventually had two Ogwumikes playing at the same time, and then two Samuelsons playing at the same time, and then two Johnsons at the same time, and will soon have two Hulls at the same time.  Under those circumstances first names are essential, and once you start calling a couple of players by their first name it seems more consistent to call them all by their first names.  And giving a full first AND last name is just time consuming and clumsy.  Maybe I should use last names consistently EXCEPT for those players who share a last name?  What do you all think?

The other thing that reinforces the first name use for WBB are the chalk talks and behind the bench talks.  The coaches talk to the fans about the players on a first name basis and often bring them out to introduce them to the fans as "Chiney" or "Karlie" etc.  So those of us who attend those events get a lot of first name reinforcement.  It feels weird just having listened to "Chiney" chat about the game to go home and type "Ogwumike said...."
[/quote]

I don't personally find it problematic, it was just always interesting to me that the women were often called by their first names and the men virtually never. I assumed there was some historical reason and this makes sense.

[81alum]

As that great article linked by Mick shows, there is serious research on this.

I also wonder how much of the "first name" culture in WBB is part of a historical statement possibly growing out of the early Title IX days.  First names are mostly gendered, and last names are not.  Last names are inherited from your father, not from your mother (in this culture).  Women have never been as connected to last names as men--in fact many shed them upon marriage.  Coach "Vanderveer" could be a female coach or a male coach, but "Tara" can only be female.  So is the use of a first name a feminist statement?

And how about a sisterhood?  I know that "Tara" has hired only female assistant coaches and mentored many of them to go on to head coaching roles, and she also has expressed her concern about the gradual replacement of female coaches in WBB with male coaches.  While it wouldn't work with "Pat" Summit, first name coaches could be a subtle statement about gender.  Feminist groups have often sought to break down the boundaries of hierarchy and formality that were initially created by men.  First names among coaches and players could be part of that sisterhood.

And could part of it just be Stanford?  When I arrived in 1977 I was shocked to discover that my faculty invited me to call them by their first names.  California in general is informal--probably even more so then.  Later, at Ivies, I never encountered that level of informality.  Arriving at Stanford in the 1980s, "Tara" might just have been emulating a more general faculty trend that had arisen out of the student protests of the 60s and 70s, and the name stuck because she became famous as "Tara" after winning a couple of national championships.  Also keep in mind the way that Stanford nicknames shorten all complicated names.  Mem Aud, Flo Mo, Mem Chu, etc.  The student body is acculturated to finding clipped and shortened ways to refer to all Stanford institutions, and Tara Vanderveer is certainly a Stanford institution.

However, my guess is that there is someone--perhaps connected with this board--who will know of serious research on the history of sport, Title IX, etc. who can point us to some good reads on this kind of stuff.

[81alum]

As that great article linked by Mick shows, there is serious research on this.

I also wonder how much of the "first name" culture in WBB is part of a historical statement possibly growing out of the early Title IX days.  First names are mostly gendered, and last names are not.  Last names are inherited from your father, not from your mother (in this culture).  Women have never been as connected to last names as men--in fact many shed them upon marriage.  Coach "Vanderveer" could be a female coach or a male coach, but "Tara" can only be female.  So is the use of a first name a feminist statement?

And how about a sisterhood?  I know that "Tara" has hired only female assistant coaches and mentored many of them to go on to head coaching roles, and she also has expressed her concern about the gradual replacement of female coaches in WBB with male coaches.  While it wouldn't work with "Pat" Summit, first name coaches could be a subtle statement about gender.  Feminist groups have often sought to break down the boundaries of hierarchy and formality that were initially created by men.  First names among coaches and players could be part of that sisterhood.

And could part of it just be Stanford?  When I arrived in 1977 I was shocked to discover that my faculty invited me to call them by their first names.  California in general is informal--probably even more so then.  Later, at Ivies, I never encountered that level of informality.  Arriving at Stanford in the 1980s, "Tara" might just have been emulating a more general faculty trend that had arisen out of the student protests of the 60s and 70s, and the name stuck because she became famous as "Tara" after winning a couple of national championships.  Also keep in mind the way that Stanford nicknames shorten all complicated names.  Mem Aud, Flo Mo, Mem Chu, etc.  The student body is acculturated to finding clipped and shortened ways to refer to all Stanford institutions, and Tara Vanderveer is certainly a Stanford institution.

However, my guess is that there is someone--perhaps connected with this board--who will know of serious research on the history of sport, Title IX, etc. who can point us to some good reads on this kind of stuff.

[Canalejas]

The possibility of a child/adult activity divide reminds me of my own observation about names in teaching.  There exists a divide between preschool (and sometimes Kindergarten) and elementary school.  Why is it that preschool is taught by Ms. Jenny and Ms. Anne while fourth grade is taught by Mr. Collins and Mrs. Chang?

[Canalejas]

The possibility of a child/adult activity divide reminds me of my own observation about names in teaching.  There exists a divide between preschool (and sometimes Kindergarten) and elementary school.  Why is it that preschool is taught by Ms. Jenny and Ms. Anne while fourth grade is taught by Mr. Collins and Mrs. Chang?

[Goose]

The possibility of a child/adult activity divide reminds me of my own observation about names in teaching.  There exists a divide between preschool (and sometimes Kindergarten) and elementary school.  Why is it that preschool is taught by Ms. Jenny and Ms. Anne while fourth grade is taught by Mr. Collins and Mrs. Chang?

Could be because 4th grade existed long before the term Ms. was created, so there was a history there. Preschool on the scale it exists today did not, so it is in some sense "newer". Obviously, this is a theory, not a definitive fact, but I think it may explain it.

[Goose]

The possibility of a child/adult activity divide reminds me of my own observation about names in teaching.  There exists a divide between preschool (and sometimes Kindergarten) and elementary school.  Why is it that preschool is taught by Ms. Jenny and Ms. Anne while fourth grade is taught by Mr. Collins and Mrs. Chang?

Could be because 4th grade existed long before the term Ms. was created, so there was a history there. Preschool on the scale it exists today did not, so it is in some sense "newer". Obviously, this is a theory, not a definitive fact, but I think it may explain it.

[DC 86]

Interesting topic. It does seem as if on this board there is a quantifiable difference in frequency of use of first names for male vs female athletes.

The study that Mick linked is from 1992 and mostly limited to tennis and I'm not sure if it holds up today; anecdotally it seems as if Federer and Nadal are usually referred to as "Roger" and "Rafa" by both broadcasters and fans, as was "Andre" and as "Serena" and "Venus" are today.

Someone would need to do a comprehensive study because there are so many examples to bolster either argument. The most famous American athletes today are probably LeBron James and Tiger Woods, and I would guess they are referred to as "LeBron" and "Tiger" rather than "James" and "Woods" close to 100% of the time (exception being New York Times articles). First name and nickname use is very common on golf broadcasts, e.g. "Rory" and "DJ", moreso than when referring to women golfers it seems.

As an aside, when Bill Walsh returned to Stanford for his second stint he told the players to call him "Bill" but not surprisingly almost all continued to call him "coach".

[DC 86]

Interesting topic. It does seem as if on this board there is a quantifiable difference in frequency of use of first names for male vs female athletes.

The study that Mick linked is from 1992 and mostly limited to tennis and I'm not sure if it holds up today; anecdotally it seems as if Federer and Nadal are usually referred to as "Roger" and "Rafa" by both broadcasters and fans, as was "Andre" and as "Serena" and "Venus" are today.

Someone would need to do a comprehensive study because there are so many examples to bolster either argument. The most famous American athletes today are probably LeBron James and Tiger Woods, and I would guess they are referred to as "LeBron" and "Tiger" rather than "James" and "Woods" close to 100% of the time (exception being New York Times articles). First name and nickname use is very common on golf broadcasts, e.g. "Rory" and "DJ", moreso than when referring to women golfers it seems.

As an aside, when Bill Walsh returned to Stanford for his second stint he told the players to call him "Bill" but not surprisingly almost all continued to call him "coach".

[Goose]

It seems to me that golf and tennis names are heavily influenced by the fact that the total number of serious competitors is fairly small and that there is always a color commentator present who knows (or wants us to think he knows) the competitors personally. Thus the use of first names by that commentator is "natural", and spills over into the "play by play" coverage.
It is also certainly true that some athletes get the first name reference and others don't. It was always "Marris and Mantle". "Koufax and Drysdale", "Ruth and Gehrig", "Spahn and Sain (and pray for rain)", "Tanana and Ryan (and two days of cryin)" but it was Casey and Yogi. Same sport, different treatments.

[Goose]

It seems to me that golf and tennis names are heavily influenced by the fact that the total number of serious competitors is fairly small and that there is always a color commentator present who knows (or wants us to think he knows) the competitors personally. Thus the use of first names by that commentator is "natural", and spills over into the "play by play" coverage.
It is also certainly true that some athletes get the first name reference and others don't. It was always "Marris and Mantle". "Koufax and Drysdale", "Ruth and Gehrig", "Spahn and Sain (and pray for rain)", "Tanana and Ryan (and two days of cryin)" but it was Casey and Yogi. Same sport, different treatments.

[Stymie]

Don't forget Tinker to Evers to Chance.  Man, were they good!

[Stymie]

Don't forget Tinker to Evers to Chance.  Man, were they good!

[dabigv13]

http://www.newsweek.com/women-medicine-f...ues-615023

Obviously sports isn't the only area where this sort of issue exists. My wife (also a physician) and my female colleagues deal with this sort of thing routinely. Mostly it's being thought of as a nurse by a patient, but being referred to by first name rather than title and last name happens much more frequently for her than me. From other physicians and ancillary staff, less often patients.

[dabigv13]

http://www.newsweek.com/women-medicine-f...ues-615023

Obviously sports isn't the only area where this sort of issue exists. My wife (also a physician) and my female colleagues deal with this sort of thing routinely. Mostly it's being thought of as a nurse by a patient, but being referred to by first name rather than title and last name happens much more frequently for her than me. From other physicians and ancillary staff, less often patients.

[Bruce Wang]

Interesting point. Guys tend to call each other by their last name generally, probably because of sports.  I have never referred to a female friend by her surname.  Yes, I recognize the ironic and circular hypocrisy in this explanation.

[Bruce Wang]

Interesting point. Guys tend to call each other by their last name generally, probably because of sports.  I have never referred to a female friend by her surname.  Yes, I recognize the ironic and circular hypocrisy in this explanation.

[stupac2]

Guys tend to call each other by their last name generally, probably because of sports.

In some circumstances, maybe. But I know basically no one who does this. In fact I don't think I've ever known someone who primarily called someone by their last names. The only circumstances I can think of it applying are sports and some TV shows.

[stupac2]

Guys tend to call each other by their last name generally, probably because of sports.

In some circumstances, maybe. But I know basically no one who does this. In fact I don't think I've ever known someone who primarily called someone by their last names. The only circumstances I can think of it applying are sports and some TV shows.

[2006alum]

[quote author=Publius link=topic=17823.msg209182#msg209182 date=1509321621]Guys tend to call each other by their last name generally, probably because of sports.

In some circumstances, maybe. But I know basically no one who does this. In fact I don't think I've ever known someone who primarily called someone by their last names. The only circumstances I can think of it applying are sports and some TV shows.
[/quote]

I do it. I call about a third of my best guy friends by their last names. Several reasons for this, including some awesome last names, and multiple friends in the same friend group with the same first name. And lots of my friends, male and female, call me by either only my last name or just first initial and last name (it has a ring to it, apparently, because I've been getting called it since freshman year at Stanford). Otoh, a number of my friends and I also call a few of our female friends by their last names, again, where the last name is just a better/cooler name to say. (All with permission, of course). I like the practice where it's appropriate - I think it conveys an intimacy of friendship.

[2006alum]

[quote author=Publius link=topic=17823.msg209182#msg209182 date=1509321621]Guys tend to call each other by their last name generally, probably because of sports.

In some circumstances, maybe. But I know basically no one who does this. In fact I don't think I've ever known someone who primarily called someone by their last names. The only circumstances I can think of it applying are sports and some TV shows.
[/quote]

I do it. I call about a third of my best guy friends by their last names. Several reasons for this, including some awesome last names, and multiple friends in the same friend group with the same first name. And lots of my friends, male and female, call me by either only my last name or just first initial and last name (it has a ring to it, apparently, because I've been getting called it since freshman year at Stanford). Otoh, a number of my friends and I also call a few of our female friends by their last names, again, where the last name is just a better/cooler name to say. (All with permission, of course). I like the practice where it's appropriate - I think it conveys an intimacy of friendship.

[82lsju]

[quote author=Robber Baron 83 link=topic=17823.msg209092#msg209092 date=1509294762]
The possibility of a child/adult activity divide reminds me of my own observation about names in teaching.  There exists a divide between preschool (and sometimes Kindergarten) and elementary school.  Why is it that preschool is taught by Ms. Jenny and Ms. Anne while fourth grade is taught by Mr. Collins and Mrs. Chang?

Could be because 4th grade existed long before the term Ms. was created, so there was a history there. Preschool on the scale it exists today did not, so it is in some sense "newer". Obviously, this is a theory, not a definitive fact, but I think it may explain it.
[/quote]

not Robber Baron 83 but I think his point was pre-school is Ms. FirstName and later it is Mr. or Mrs. (could be Ms. as well) LastName

[82lsju]

[quote author=Robber Baron 83 link=topic=17823.msg209092#msg209092 date=1509294762]
The possibility of a child/adult activity divide reminds me of my own observation about names in teaching.  There exists a divide between preschool (and sometimes Kindergarten) and elementary school.  Why is it that preschool is taught by Ms. Jenny and Ms. Anne while fourth grade is taught by Mr. Collins and Mrs. Chang?

Could be because 4th grade existed long before the term Ms. was created, so there was a history there. Preschool on the scale it exists today did not, so it is in some sense "newer". Obviously, this is a theory, not a definitive fact, but I think it may explain it.
[/quote]

not Robber Baron 83 but I think his point was pre-school is Ms. FirstName and later it is Mr. or Mrs. (could be Ms. as well) LastName

[JJJ]

In football, last names are on jerseys. (yes, WBB and MBB too, but not baseball, softball, soccer, etc.) From my very shaky recollections, I don't believe many WBB broadcasts referred to first names when the announcers weren't on first name terms with players (e.g. former Cardinal student-athletes). Maybe first names are actually a better way to refer to all athletes, assuming everyone knows who we're talking about. (Toby, Stepfan, Andrew, Christian, Bryce all work for me.)

[JJJ]

In football, last names are on jerseys. (yes, WBB and MBB too, but not baseball, softball, soccer, etc.) From my very shaky recollections, I don't believe many WBB broadcasts referred to first names when the announcers weren't on first name terms with players (e.g. former Cardinal student-athletes). Maybe first names are actually a better way to refer to all athletes, assuming everyone knows who we're talking about. (Toby, Stepfan, Andrew, Christian, Bryce all work for me.)